REPOST : IRAN'S PRESIDENT' LETTER PUBLIC

[tocqueville]

http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/doc/20060509/769629_lettre.pdf

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1137663&mesg_id=1137663

[originalpckelly]

1. You know I forgot that Muslims actually like Jesus...

They don't think he is the Song of God, but they do think he was another Prophet link Muhammad. That is about the nicest letter I have ever seen. I wonder why he is always threatening Israel. Seems like a really nice guy to me.

[xultar]

2. So true. The different religions are just the same stories told from

different points of view and different periods in time. I'm sure they all knew each other because the land was small.

Shame we are fighting over the same thing. So fucking sad.

[sam sarrha]

5. Mohammad was a blood line descendant of Abraham.. I fear that Abraham was

schizophrenic, ..today the only people that hear the 'Voice' of gOD tell them to kill their children are schizophrenic.. i dont think that can be ignored

[xultar]

20. I can agree with that schizophrenic people don't just exist in modern

times.

[sam sarrha]

30. i cant help feel that it popped u again with Mohammad. actually he

'Channeled' Allah.. he had trances and people wrote down what Allah said... Allah and Jehovah are different ..and according to the Hindu's, allah and Jehovah would be demi-gODs.. essentially cosmically powerful 'Trouble makers'.. The failing of the gods is 'Pride', the failing of the demi-gods is Jealously.. 'I am a jealous gOD...'

[bdamomma]

3. this letter will go over bush's head

I thought the letter had some truth in it, too bad bush won't get it, in that thick skull of his.

[eallen]

4. He sounds like a religious right wingnut.

Which is what he is. He's writing to a wingnut who belongs to another religion, asking why they can't just get along.

It would be hilarious, if they led opposing congregations on opposite sides of town. It's tragic, given that both are world leaders in the 21st century.

[sam sarrha]

7. actually the letter was very much to the point and i agree with everything

in it.. It is the truth and the first lucid and concise interpretation of what is going on there.

I wish it had been written by a Democratic Presidential candidate.. he would have won the next election..

[eallen]

11. "Liberalism and Western style democracy have (failed) humanity"?!

I had to truncate. The exact quote is: "Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to realize the ideals of humanity."

If you agree with that, let me suggest that you are in the wrong political party. "Liberalism and Western style democracy" are precisely the ideals of the Democratic Party.

Ironically, our own religious right agree with Ahmadinejad. They want less liberalism, less democracy, and more God in government. Of course, they want their god, and Ahmadinejad wants his. Speaking as a liberal, I think it is tragic that we are still fighting religious wars in the 21st century.

[tocqueville]

18. with liberalism he means neocon

he uses the European expression "liberal" meaning "neo-liberal" = right-wing market orienred. Only in the US liberal means leftist.

[eallen]

21. No. "Western style democracy" refers to UK & Germany, as well as US....

Ahmadinejad is pretty clear in his belief that Islam is a political cure for what ails the world.

Just as Jerry Falwell calls for politicized Christianity.

Ahmadinejad is no friend to liberalism, in any sense of the word.

[tocqueville]

23. you don't understand

I don't deny that he means that Islam is the cure

but he means that Western style DEMOCRACY has failed, because he believes in theocracy

LIBERALISM (as economical/political model) is only considered as left wing in the US. Practically all other countries use the word in the meaning extreme right wing :

A general overview of political positions

Today the word "liberalism" is used differently in different countries. (See Liberalism worldwide.) One of the greatest contrasts is between the usage in the United States and usage in Continental Europe. In the US, liberalism is usually contrasted with conservatism, and American liberals support broader racial, ethnic, and religious tolerance, and thus more readily embrace multiculturalism and affirmative action. In Europe, on the other hand, liberalism is not only contrasted with conservatism and Christian Democracy, but also with socialism and social democracy. In some countries, European liberals share common positions with Christian Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

or else the sentence doesn't make sense : he'd mean that left wing western democracy has failed !

BTW the type of "Islam" he represents is very state-interventionist and leaves very little to the frre market in any sense. Free market wants to trade and that is a thereat to autocratic religious rule.

[eallen]

24. I understand fine.

I see no reason to think that Ahmadinejad is referring to a narrow sense of liberalism, rather than the broader sense. From his viewpoint, Europe, the US, Japan, and other western democracies are broken societies. Their freedom and openness allow a personal autonomy that Ahmadinejad sees as an attack on "cultural foundations" and leading to "the disintegration of families."

Of course, the cultural foundations to which he refers are religious ones. Ahmadinejad is a religious conservative who hates liberalism, in the same sense that the religious right always hate liberalism. Ahmadinejad wants a government that undoes women's equality and freedom, that criminalizes pornography, that outlaws homosexuality, and that officially enshrines religion. In fact, he leads a government that does those very things. In the west, it is a throwback to the 17th century. In the mideast, it is par for the course.

What boggles my mind is seeing liberals trying to read Ahmadinejad as if he weren't what he clearly is: a right-wing religious wingnut. Just because he opposes our right-wing religious wingnuts doesn't mean he is any friend to liberalism. He isn't.

[tocqueville]

26. depends who stands for the narrow sense

liberal in the US sense IS the narrow sense. Most people don't identify liberalism in it's original sense (freedom opposed to oppression - liberal comes from liberty) in the US, only scholars do. But I completely agree that he is a right wing nut. But not a right wing nut in the meaning neocon. He is a populist, a right wing populist, an Iranian LePen. And in Europe, which is closer to Iran, a "liberal" is nearly a curse. No conservative party will call itself liberal in Europe, except for the liberal-democrats which are mostly Christian democrats (and NOT of the fundie type).

"In his presidential campaign, Ahmadinejad took a populist approach, with emphasis on his own modest life, and had compared himself with Mohammad Ali Rajai, the second president of Iran — a claim that raised objections from Rajai's family. Ahmadinejad claims he plans to create an "exemplary government for the people of the world" in Iran. He is a self-described "principlist"; that is, acting politically based on Islamic and revolutionary principles. One of his goals is "putting the petroleum income on people's tables," referring to Iran's oil profits being distributed among the poor."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

that's not exactly Cheney's point of view....

[sam sarrha]

29. could be reference to Iraq.. we have failed there.. we have failed to

stop NeoCon'ism, and Fascism.. our country is about to colapse.. our democracy is breathing its lst breaths.. i dont deny their religious government is totally nuts... but i couldnt fault anything byt the slam of democracy.. but it has failed in Iraq

but that is the only aspect i saw not true.

[ShortnFiery]

8. Yes and like a right wing religious wing-nut he's said some nasty

and horrific things. If he wants Peace, he doesn't have to play nicey nice, just stop the "we wanna wipe Israel off of the map" type rhetoric. He's like our Jerry Falwell, some good adviser needs to get him to STFU on those topics. :grr:

[eallen]

12. You can put lipstick on Jerry Falwell, but he's still a pig.

Ahmadinejad and Falwell don't need better PR. They need to be treated as religious wingnuts by all rational people in the world.

[ShortnFiery]

13. You forgot BUSH (Poland?) LOL eom

[The Stranger]

17. No he doesn't. It may be shocking, but he doesn't sound nutty at all.

[lonestarnot]

6. Is this really the letter?

[Malikshah]

14. Yup-- I"d want to see the original-- will check some sites.

[lonestarnot]

15. supposed to be 89 pages. LOL

[tocqueville]

22. it's the original, no doubt

Washington choisit d'ignorer la lettre de Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Document | Editorial du "Monde" | Les faits

http://www.lemonde.fr/

click on "document"

the letter is commented in the editorial

[FloridaPat]

9. Religious hypocrisy in the morning. These two leaders should

be put in a cage together.

In Iran for the last 150 years the Baha'is have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned, and killed. Since this new guy got in, things have gotten worse. The persecutions have picked up. Baha'is have had their homes and possessions taken away from them. Their wedding are not recognized so the Baha'i women are considered prostitutes. There are 300,000 Baha'is in Iran. The Iran gov't want to wipe them out completely. He is just like the Israelis he complains about. All three of these leaders are criminals.

The Baha'is are claiming they fulfill the prophecies of the Muslim faith and that God produces prophets at particular times in history to lead the people to the next level of faith. They believe all people were created by the same God and that women and men are equal and should be treated with the same respect. This also applies to the Christian prophecies.

The Baha'is also prophesize that the world peace everyone has been praying for for thousands of years - but not doing anything to achieve it - is coming soon. And the civilization that will rise will be beautiful with peace and prosperity for the entire human race.

[Recursion]

10. Disturbingly articulate

It's such a change to see political discourse conducted in sentences with more than two clauses. Or in arguments where there is an actual dependence of a conclusion on previously outlined claims.

Ahmani-Najad's views are alien to me, but maybe we'd all be a little better off if each side of a disagreement were to set out our views that clearly.

[The Stranger]

16. Holy fuck. If this were disseminated, it would be disastrous for Bush and

the bloodlusting, war-mongering, hate-spewing, torturing, mass-murdering Neocons.

[tocqueville]

19. it's on the front page of Le Monde

I don't even think it's copyrighted. So disseminate.

[wtmusic]

27. A little whackjob diatribe, a lot of common sense

Thanks for the post. K&R.

[paparush]

25. The US Does not Negotiate with Terruhists. All options are still..

on the table. We launch in 5.

[mainegreen]

28. A fine bit of political maneuvering, if nothing else. nt