A Second American Civil War?

[Brian Stevens]

I was just wondering, after I finished my final in American history, will there ever be a second civil war here? Red Vs. Blue, etc. If so, will you support it?

[blm]

1. Look again - the map looks pretty purple these days.

.

[Dr.Phool]

28. We have the Red States completely infiltrated!

[BOSSHOG]

2. I'm ready. Lets do it

It will be liberals defending the constitution against conservative attempts to replace said document with the bible. They want a theocracy in my country, they best be ready to shed some blood. Something they choose not to do for Iraq.

[One Honest Guy]

59. "liberals defending the constitution"

With what? With their double half-caf soy lattes and ipods? Minutemen might be a bunch of fatassed-brain-damaged-pig-shits but even a dozen of them could take out few thousand limp wristed liberals.

[newspeak]

62. you're being sarcastic right??? Right??

we have quite a few LIBERALS on this board who are war vets--that have fought for this country. We have LIBERALS on this board who are fighting now. Hey, someone may be limpwristed, but it doesn't mean their not a bad ass!!!!! Some of those "limpwristed" individuals have saved someone's ass-for they have also fought for this country!!!!! And, no I am not "limpwristed," but I am a LIBERAL and grew up shooting guns--My daughter is also LIBERAL and she's in the military and an expert shot!!!! WE know how to use a gun, but it doesn't mean it's our first or even second option, like our glorious leader's push to war.

[Khaotic]

63. Your perception is skewed neocon

To "one honest guy," if it comes to civil war don't think that your fuckin' perception is reality.

My fat ass wouldn't be carrying an ipod or a freakin' latte.

The reality now is that I feel sorry for morons like yourself who are so mentally disabled. Good thing you're becoming a minority. Now we just need to correct voter machine "discrepancies" so we can have fair elections. Then we'll see who comes out on top ... no civil war needed.

But I don't think that will be reality. Sad.

[gordontron]

65. heh nice pic

kinda gross for a postcard though

[Guaranteed]

3. Support...the war?

Well, I'd have to say that I have a hard time with the idea of supporting a Civil War.

However, I will stand up for what's right for our country, and for the world.

[New Government]

4. War? Red vs Blue Is a Myth

As blm alluded to, there are no "red" or "blue" states. There are majority "red" states and majority "blue" states, but that's all. Many states that are so-called "blue" are 51-49 and some "red" states are 52-48. Where's room for a war? Who do you fight? States fighting states make no sense, as blm said, it's really one big purple country.

-------edit for spelling

[Asgaya Dihi]

5. Not like the first one

We might have conflict again, but the days of picking up your rifle and taking on the military seem to be well past us. The resistance in Iraq and other places show that you can stop them from winning, but beating them is another matter unless you can just wear them out.

I hope it never comes to it, but what I see in my worst case scenarios is an ever growing divide between the rich and the poor, a collapsing middle class and the growing perception that all those people out there shouting about something are a threat that needs to be dealt with much like we did with the hippies in the opening years of the drug war. We're already planning prisons, though not building them as far as I know. In an environment like that we could well have something closer to what's happening in Iraq these days, but traditional battle lines I doubt, and I hope it never comes to that much.

[genie_weenie]

6. There will never be another Civil War.

All of the 20th century "improvements" in law enforcement and government were really just the continued oppression of Americans. Think of all the information the government has on your life. Social Security numbers, tax records, DNA, fingerprints, school records, tax returns, credit reports, Tollway passes (the I-Pass for example), security cameras in big cities, RFID chips in Passports, the National ID . All of these equal an UNPRECEDENTED amount of information on you held by Governmental agencies.

Incidentally, this kind of information was what many of the unit commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan wanted on suspected insurgents and they were really upset when I and others had to tell them a national database on Iraqis or Afghanis DOES NOT exist...

[CountAllVotes]

18. delete

self-delete - I couldn't see the stamps ... but ... :grr: NOT cool!

[Solo_in_MD]

25. Don't forget gun control

Its legal to own a true assault rifle (selective fire) in Iraq (AK-47). In most places in the US, you can even own a semi automatic that looks like an AK. GD Grey Davis and all his lies...

[genie_weenie]

41. Thanks I did forget the "Only The Police Should Have Guns"

mantra that is intoned every now and again. I wonder how many DUers are anti-gun but now would rethink their stance in the face of Warrantless Wiretaps and No Charge Detentions and the * Regime? :shrug:

edit: to include a recent article on the Only the State Can Have Weapons
http://www.channeloklahoma.com/news/9023840/detail.html

[Lefty48197]

47. I wonder how many "pro rkba" nuts

will reconsider their stance of supporting George Bush? I mean, what with George Bush and the Republicans being facists and all. Oh wait. Nevermind...

[genie_weenie]

48. What's "pro rkba"?

I'm unfamilar with that term.

[MrBenchley]

52. None....

The RKBA movement is nothing but right wing craziness and racism hiding under a new sheet.

[Solo_in_MD]

60. You have that backwards

Gun control has its racists roots in the KKK wanting to insure that its victims could not shoot back. Today its grown as a means to disarm the poor while the well to do can buy additionaly security and own firearms.

[MrBenchley]

68. Which is why every racist around touts this RKBA crap

But it's always fun to see the gun rights people try to pretend folks like Ted Kennedy, Charles Schumer and Carolyn Mccarthy are racist, and that John AshKKKroft, Randy Weaver and Ted Nugent are not.

It's almost as funny as the horseshit faux populism.

[alittlelark]

50. From what I have seen on DU is that we have A LOT of guns.

I would guess 1 in 50 DUers (at MOST) would want only the police to have guns. The idea is ridiculous on its face.

Many are for background checks and gun safety courses... but that seems logical to me.

[Brian Stevens]

53. Gun trivia

There is a way around those checking laws, and that is build your own gun. There are no background checks for parts.

[alittlelark]

55. I was discussing MORAL issues, SOCIETAL issues...

Not whacko militia issues.

[MrBenchley]

51. I never forget it....

But then who but the Randy Weaver Wannabe Club opposes it?

[Arkham House]

54. This wouldn't prevent it in the end...

...if the country really got polarized enough for a war, all those high-tech Orwellian toys would end up going for naught. Look at all the totalitarian techniques the KGB had to control the Soviet people--and what good did it do them, in the end? Or the Stasi, in East Germany--which was *much* more of a totalitarian state than the Third Reich ever was? God save us from a civil war--but if the people really get pissed against the government, all they can do is postpone a day of reckoning--not prevent it...

[stillcool]

7. I prefer revolution....

but, when I think of certain states that have an ungodly amount of political power, and monied elites, civil war gains favor.

[Brian Stevens]

12. Revolutions and civil wars

are pretty much the same thing. When we had our revolution the majority of colonists (if not all) are british. Thus they fought their own people.

[New Government]

14. Seriously, you should LOSE the stamps

A gun at the president's head and the words, "patriot act" underneath will just get your thread deleted and get you booted. The admins don't look at these things lightly.

[stillcool]

21. to my mind...revolution is against rulers...

and civil war is among civilians.

[Brian Stevens]

23. Is the original civil war...

between 2 goverments? The USA vs. the CSA?

[stillcool]

26. perhaps in someone's perception....

but my recall of american history....which is about the same as an 'old wives tale' is that it was 'people'....and I realize as I write this how very ludicrous that sounds. For the last several years, my reading material has been limited to the last 50 years or so of political, and industrial history, and basic world geography. I obviously need to broaden my interest.

[Brian Stevens]

29. Its all cool

There were 2 different recolections(sp) on wheather the Confederacy (or confederacah depending if you watch too much South Park)was an actual goverment or just a country ran by Jefferson Davis.

[SPKrazy]

8. Interesting Sig Line Pic

the stamp thing with *

14 posts

that stamp thing

asking about civil war

are you for real?

[Guaranteed]

9. Yeah, it's getting a bit dangerous. nt

[Bluebear]

10. Thanks for removing stamps! nt

[Brian Stevens]

20. Been here for a while but....

I always wanted to know what nt stood for?

[Ready4Change]

35. nt=no text

The poster put all he/she had to say in the subject line.

[New Government]

11. I'd remove those stamps

I've already posted in this thread, but I just looked at your stamps. You will get the whole thread deleted with those. The Secret Service wouldn't look kindly on postings with pictures of a gun to Bush's head. Just the truth.

[Brian Stevens]

15. Better?

Got the pic from that news story on this art show that caused contraversy.

[New Government]

19. Brian

Wherever you got it, it wouldn't last long - even here.
The insinuation is quite clear from the stamps: Killing Bush is a patriotic act. Why sully the reputation of DU with that? It makes some wonder if you're even "real."

[Brian Stevens]

22. understood

sorry about that.

[sweetheart]

27. welcome to DU, brian

:party:

run the gauntlet, see you at 1000 posts.

:-)

[Brian Stevens]

30. Thank ya

And once again to all, I appologize for the stamp thing. I can be millitant at times but I will maintain respect. If you haven't seen it, good. But still, what does nt mean?

[sweetheart]

36. n/t means "no text"

eom is "end of message"
IMHO - in my humble opinion
BFEE - bush family evil empire
MSM - main stream media

People will presume you are a republican until you get a
few hundred posts, so watch your p's and q's... or don't
and be authentic... both will foil your jaded detractors.

No guilt, welcome to the temple of free speech. :-)

[sweetheart]

13. Is the first one over?

Slavery is practiced in greater numbers than ever before in history,
lead on by the corporate persons created by the first period of the
american civil war 1860.. Since those persons gained equal rights,
which has been, by far, the use of the 14th amendment, corporate
mammon has undermined individual liberty for 140 years that they
have waged a second civil war, taking the white house in a criminal
election fraud, and reversing all laws that protect rights for anyone
but a plantation owner. .. and the electoral map of the last poll,
for all the purple, was 140 years later, the same as that of the civil war.

[Bridget Burke]

16. No.

Did you pass?

[Brian Stevens]

17. My test?

Won't know til Friday.

[rucky]

24. Yes, but it is being fought economically.

and pretty one-sided, at this point.

[AllieB]

32. I agree. I saw something a few months ago in the Economy forum

that showed how much federal tax money the blue states pay out and the red states receive. Now, I don't mind helping the poor in LA, MS, and AL, but I don't like when my money supports "faith-based" initiatives that discriminate against African-Americans, gays, women and Latinos.

[rucky]

37. can you find that thread again?

I would be very interested in seeing it.

if you posted on it, i could just search your username.

Thanks!

[AllieB]

49. I found a link to the study:

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

[porphyrian]

31. I don't support war.

I support people. Unfortunately, our government no longer supports the majority of us. Because of this, I support immediate and drastic change. Some will not accept change without violence. Hopefully this can be controlled and kept to a minimum, far less than what could be called a second civil war. However, my cynical side feels there are too many who want exactly that.

[Greyhound]

33. Possibly but not the kind of war you're probably thinking of.

No war between the states, but probably a war between the classes. Are you ready? :hide:

[AllieB]

34. No way.

I agree with rucky that right now we are fighting an economic civil war.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. If a war does take place, it won't be between rival governments....

...like the war that took place between the Union and the Confederacy.

I envision the economic conditions getting much worse for the Lower 99% as the Top 1% continues to get wealthier. At some point, the Lower 99% are not going to put up with it any longer, and then we'll see what amounts to a revolution. As much as the Top 1% would like to think they have control of the armed forces as well as all national, state, and local law enforcement organizations, I think they've forgotten that those people are suffering, or beginning to suffer, the economic deprivations of the Lower 99%. A few will stay loyal to the Top 1%, but most will decide to throw in with the revolution.

If you look at revolutions that have taken place throughout history, it has almost always been a case of the Have-Nots revolting against the Haves. Look at the French and Russian Revolutions as good examples of what could very well happen.

What I'm talking about will take place in every community in the U. S....and will not be anything like the overgeneralized red versus blue nonsense. And if it goes in the direction I think it may go, it will get VERY ugly, VERY quickly. The thin veneer of civilization will probably collapse as people all over the country begin to fight for, and secure, resources like food and fuel. Electrical power grids may cease to function if power plants become targets of one or more factions. Transportation, including the delivery of food, would grind to a halt very quickly.

People who have moved to remote locations and stockpiled food, water, and ammunition may survive that kind of warfare, but I put stress on the word "may".

And then the question becomes, who controls the nukes? Would a collapsing NeoCon government decide to take everyone with them? I don't know about you, but I really don't want to find out.

[Brian Stevens]

39. That's ironic :)

I did a paper about "then and now" comparasans that has some of your points. :yourock:

[newspeak]

64. so, during the Depression in the thirties

do you think that FDR understood that the class division could possibly spark a revolt? If the attempted coup by certain entrenched industrialists had been successful, would citizens have revolted?

[RagAss]

40. I'm ready to fight Fascism ......just like my father in WWII.

[Ready4Change]

42. You've asked a loaded question.

Ask the question more clearly.

For example, maybe you meant to ask: Would you support the people of the United States of America rising up to remove from power those who would burn our Constitution, enslave our people, wage war against any in the world who resist our total domination, and turn this land of ours into a toxic wasteland fueling a never to end war against a never to be defeated enemy?

Or do you meant to ask: Would you support a small number of communist wackos trying to encite violence against the legally elected representatives of the American People?

Clarifying your question would not only clarify your answers, but also why you are asking in the first place.

As to "Will there ever be another Civil War here?" I think we would be arrogant to assume we are more resistant to that possibility than we were 150 years ago. Our veneer of civilization is as thin as ever.

It's not a question of "Will." It's a question of "When," and "Why."

[Brian Stevens]

46. I am usually blunt when asking questions. nt

[Mr_Spock]

43. I was thinking that a couple years ago.

It seems that perhaps the RWers have bitten off more than they can chew at this point

[genie_weenie]

44. Brian Stevens, Sporting that Anarchist Symbol

you should really look into the horrible methods the State (The Government of the US) used in order to keep it's people impoverished, stupid and under the sway of Nationalism. And look to change your question to one of when will we be able to limit or remove the Federal Government control and coercion over the people of the US.

[Brian Stevens]

66. Something to research

Check out the works of Lynn Goldman.

[heartofthesiskiyou]

45. I think a large scale insurgency

is more likely, but nothing resembling the conventionally held view of a civil war with lines and states on one side or another. But it's going to be lead by conservatives. Our area (Souther Oregon)is experiencing a mutiny on the bounty by conservatives here. These aren't conservatives like what they are calling conservatives in the conventional MSM terms. These conservatives are more traditional conservatives before the corporations that took over the republican party. They virtually HATE the corporations taking over all of the American resources and they can't stand the neocon way of thinking. They are more isolationists as opposed to multinationalists American superiority view.

When you talk to them about republicans stealing the electoral system your not telling them something they don't know. They KNOW the elections were stolen and are the strongest supporters of all paper ballots (far stronger the democratic support of electoal reform) and getting computers out of the booth. They seem to LIKE the constitution and pretty much believe if the document survives the nation survives. About 25% of the yards sport signs against the UN as that's a big issue around here. They are pretty much Birchers, and I can tell as a matter of fact they are stock piling food AND amo. They hate the US government and see their constitutional rights to privacy, search and seizure, the right to bear arms, and other issues going down the tubes. In general they speak about going to war against the government as a given. They're practicing regularly for a defense of the community. A small percentage of the liberals participate on planning but most, it is believed, will get in line to march into the ovens once they are told to do so.

[Dave Reynolds]

56. It will not happen.

At least in the historical sense of army vs. army.

Now it is being fought on blogs around the world.

And, to switch to revolution....the only way *that* could work is by one or two man teams taking out specific personnel. Large groups with a leader are too easily infiltrated, and to go toe-to-toe with military or law enforcement (hard to tell the difference anymore) would be unwise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. ALL hot civil wars are preceded by a period of cold

hostilities, guess what we are in the midst off?

Is that the answer you wanted? We might be able to avoid it, but I ain't holding my breath... damn masters in hsitory... those who refuse to learn from history are bound to repeat it

[savemefromdumbya]

58. we don't want war we just want them behind bars

[Accountability_NOW]

61. It would be a fast one...

I don't think the backwash would hold out very long :rofl:


http://benfrank.net/blog/f/dc-march.pdf

[originalpckelly]

67. I have feared this for a long time...

We obviously won't start it. I think the freepers will. They are the types who talk of such crap.

[rpgamerd00d]

69. 26 posts? Sorry, I'm not that naive.