GM lowers prices on everything, no more stupid incentives

[DainBramaged]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10789564/

<snip>
DETROIT - General Motors Corp., the world's biggest automaker, said Tuesday that it will lower the prices on 57 of its 76 models in North America in an effort to boost its sliding market share and wean buyers off expensive incentives.

Mark LaNeve, GM's vice president of sales and marketing, told reporters that the program will lower the manufacturer's suggested retail price by as much as $2,500 (euro2,072) on some vehicles, but the average decrease will be $1,300 (euro1,077).
<snip>


So for everyone who thinks it's "chic" to bash General Motors over Japanese cars and threaten Union jobs because they don't think they match up, follow the lead on any of the GM websites, particularly www.chevy.com. Lowest priced car in America, more features for less money than any Honda or Toyota, and for those of us who don't find 50 MPG hybrids useful for work or play, a wider selection of cars and trucks than Toyota and Honda combined can offer, and LOTS of horsepower.

And if you folks don't like the new Camaro that will be released in 2007 , oh well.

[amitten]

1. I'd like it better if I knew it'd last more than three years without

need for repair. I gave up on the U.S. brands long ago, because in spite of all my maintenance efforts they DON'T. LAST. If I was fabulously wealthy, I guess I'd buy American and not worry, but as it is... :shrug:

[DainBramaged]

2. Since you gave up on GM long ago

How do you know it won't last? My '98 Blazer has 113000 miles on it. Didn't have to tune it up (plugs, wires, dist. cap) till 100,000 (actually 103,000) one set of brakes, and normal fluid filter changes. Never left me stranded, and the 5 year old battery went in the driveway when it needed replacing.

Sorry, past tense doesn't cut it with me. Tell that to the workers at the top three assembly plants for quality in North America that they make crap. And they aren't Toyota or Honda.

[amitten]

4. That's pretty good. But once bitten, twice shy. Actually, I've had

a grand total of 3 GM lemons. By lemon I mean in need of constant attention. I have no desire to try again. Unless you're buying!

[DainBramaged]

6. Since you refuse to indicate what they were and when, no contest

Stay with what you like the best.

But as with the Walmartization of America, buying Japanese hurts everyone, not just the car makers here, but every small business and all of the sub-contractors, Union or otherwise. Right down to the coffee shop on the way to work in the morning.

THAT'S the penalty for loving imports.

[amitten]

9. I can't help it. Show me one consumer who is willing to shell out

thousands--on any product--and have that product fail them each time. It doesn't happen with electronics, restaurants, clothing brands, or anything else. If people keep having bad experiences, they give up. They can't afford not to. If I've had nothing but clunkers buying American, and nothing but luck buying Japanese, I'd be flat-out retarded to keep buying the clunkers. I want to keep American jobs in America. Am I willing to throw my own money out the window to do that? No.

[FredUptoHere]

67. when you "throw your money out the window"

at least it stays in this country.

[amitten]

93. Well, the rest of the money I earn does stay in this country.

But I'll be damned if I'll shell out 10,000 dollars plus over and over and over again for machines that keep breaking. Maybe you would like to buy me my next car? To make sure the money stays in America?

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. My 95 Blazer is a piece of shit car

It has 119,000 miles on it and is sitting dead in my driveway right now. You can have it. Just come and get it. But bring a tow truck.

This is the third GM vehicle we have owned that started falling apart at less than 50K miles. NEVER AGAIN. We learned our lesson the hard way. We drive only Hondas and Toyotas now.

[DainBramaged]

31. Fine, enjoy those pieces of shit then

10 years is a long tme to pass judgement on or to compare to today's cars. But if you must, so be it. I wouldn't own a pice of shit Japanes car in my lifetime so we're even.:puke:

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. My Honda had 80K miles on it when it was totaled a few months ago

And it had held its value better than any GM car I have ever owned. That meant that I got a great settlement from my insurance company and was able to make a rather large down payment on a new Toyota.

It's about money, not loyalty to American cars or workers. It's all about my pocketbook. That's how most consumers make buying decisions.

[LincolnMcGrath]

38. "not loyalty to American cars or workers. It's all about my pocketbook"

At least you are up front about it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. It's easier to contribute to the economy

when I get more for my money in a vehicle.

[LincolnMcGrath]

58. With all due respect, tell yourself what ever you need to.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. I work every day teaching kids and have made a contribution

to our society as an educator for 26 years now. What have YOU done? Buying American made cars is certainly not enough to show you are a true American, at least not in my book. What do you do that really makes a difference? That is what counts, IMO.

Since I do not make a great deal of money, I choose to spend it wisely and responsibility. Now maybe if I made 6 figures plus, I could afford to subsidize US auto makers. But I need to watch my budget very carefully.

I do not shop at WalMart, I donate monthly to several good causes like Katrina relief, I try to reduce my dependence on petroleum products, we have sealed off about half of our house to save money on heating costs and I participate in the anti war movement in my community. I also bought groceries for a needy family last week and today I am trying to raise $300 to keep their electricity from being shut off.

Now you think I am going to feel guilty for buying a car sold by a Japanese company? Sorry, my conscience is clean.

What have YOU done other than buying an American car? What other contributions have all of you made - you who look down upon those of us who refuse to be ripped off by US car makers?

[Telly Savalas]

117. Nevertheless if rich GM execs decide to take a 100 lb mound of cowdung

put 4 wheels on it and call it a "car", it is your patriotic duty to buy it. GM executives are in no way responsible for the well being of their company.

[DainBramaged]

132. Here find the wheels. And you are in no way responsible for buying Blue

[LincolnMcGrath]

126. lol

I'm sure a tenured teacher of 26 years has to pinch pennies tighter than someone who has been laid off three times since 02, only to end up with a 40% pay-slash when they found work. :hi:

When they come for the public school teachers, your position has already been established. Many taxpayers are feeling the property tax pinch, and the GOP has already succeeded in blaming 'failing public schools with lazy overpaid teachers'. When your neighbor asks you about subsidizing or being ripped off by public schools, be sure to stand beside them and back their phony charges.

You say you are not feeling guilty, yet you keep trying to convince someone you are a great American. I, BTW, already think you are a great american. So stop being so defensive.

[amitten]

94. With all due respect, this is a free country and people can buy

whatever they damn well please with their hard-earned money. When I buy a car, it's not for charity for others. It's something I depend on to make MY OWN living and it had better work when I need it to. People cannot afford, especially these days, to waste money on things that won't last.

[FredUptoHere]

66. to the japanese economy that is...

nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. You mean the Japanese auto makers who employ US workers?

The ones who make their cars right here in the USA? Those Japanese car makers? The ones who pay taxes in the USA?

[FredUptoHere]

88. the ones who take their profits in Japan?

yeah...them.

[amitten]

95. Well, the US economy does not live and die by cars alone. If

the only thing I ever buy from Japan is a car every ten years, I hardly think I've given to their economy more than I have to ours.

[DainBramaged]

99. It does now, name ONE manufacturing industry left that can sustain

the number of employees the auto industry does. Otherwise, we'll become a complete lower wage service McJobs economy.

Then you won't even be able to buy your precious imports.:rofl:

[amitten]

100. Imports are not responsible for the current economy. Me buying

a piece-of-crap, lasts-five-years, sends-the-local-mechanic's-kids-to-college U.S. made car isn't going to save our economy. All it does is hurt MY economy!

So let me get this straight. You want me and everyone else to buy cars that cost $10,000+ that we know will break down over and over, and cost us thousands in the long run, to "help the economy"? Do you seriously expect people to do that? Do you SERIOUSLY expect intellegent, hard-working people to willingly buy something that has repeatedly failed them, instead of paying the same price for something that will last TWICE as long? I have no moral obligation to do that. None whatsoever. And if I worked at, say, a restaurant that kept serving crappy food, I would not expect people to keep paying for that crap just to help keep ME in my current job. I would fully expect them to walk down the street to a non-crappy restaurant. And I would hope that MY restaurant would have the good sense to start serving good food.

[DainBramaged]

105. Have you owned any Brand New GM or Ford vehicle in 10

years? And if not, you speak for no one but yourself. In spite of "perception" here, all I asked all you is if you've bought a new AMERICAN car in the past decade. And your answers are always no. 1995 or previous. No current experience. Blah Blah Blah junk junk junk.

You assume that everything everyone else says here is true. And that every American made vehicle is junk and programmed to break down. And Japanese cars never break down, cost nothing to fix, and are worth the same price you paid for them 10 years after you buy them. Dreamland.

And how come none of you ever knock mega-dollar fragile BMW/AUDI/Volkswagen/Mercedes but knock the crap out of the Domestic car market? Prejudice. You call yourselves independent thinking and progressive, but you contribute to the trade deficit every time to buy Japanese. You won't shop at WalMart and buy Chinese junk there, but you'll buy a Japanese car.

We have NO OTHER MAJOR INDUSTRY LEFT. In search of the cheapest price we've sold our souls and outsourced our textile, steel, electronics, and technology industries to save a buck.

So when YOUR job goes in the toilet and you wind up serving fast food or greeting people at the front door, remember this conversation.

Perception. And brainwashing. Enjoy the ride. Buy buy buy. Send the profit to Japan, we already send our debt there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. It is not OUR fault that the US auto industry is hurting

They make a crappy product. Who's fault is that?

[amitten]

124. I'm not talking about what I've read on some blog. I'm

talking about the experience, over the past decade at least, of a wide circle of neighbors, friends, and coworkers.

Unless we're ALL collectively hallucinating, it would seem that indeed our Japanese cars have long outlived their US counterparts. (Don't blame me, buddy--I don't build the things.) With not even half the repairs. Just you try to sell people off cars that work that well for that long. You'd have to pay ME to buy something besides a Honda with all the things I've seen, heard and experienced myself. After awhile it gets old shelling out yet another $450 to some shifty-eyed grease monkey who "can't quite figure out" why that smoke or that rattle or that leak won't go away. I am not responsible for the auto industry. The AUTO INDUSTRY is responsible for the auto industry. I don't buy cars with charity in mind--I buy them with getting my ass to work every day in mind. If the cars have rightfully earned a bad reputation, I'll be damned if I'm going to keep buying them like a hypnotized half-wit (going broke, to boot).

As for other foreign-made cars you mentioned, I have no experience with any of them, and that is the sole reason I haven't mentioned them. But rest assured that if they suck as bad as the average Chevy, I won't be whipping out my checkbook for one. Ever. I don't buy cars for prestige, I buy them to get from point A to point B. Mercedes doesn't mean shit to me (unless it can run 100,000 miles with no repairs.)

I empathize completely with the fact that American jobs are hurt by all this. But I can either look out for some auto-worker's financial well-being, or I can look out for my own. Find me someone who isn't Ghandi that doesn't do the same thing.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the business. Good product=good sales in a free market. And I'm not brainwashed. I just tried a certain brand, had bad luck with it (frequently) and tried another brand that I've had good luck with. So sue me--I'm smart enough not to keep making the same stupid mistake. :)

[DainBramaged]

133. "Shifty-eyed grease monkey"

That single observation proves how clueless you really are. I guess American technicians are criminals now huh? You have no idea about required certifications to repair cars do you? Shifty-eyed grease monkey. We have a winner.:banghead:

[amitten]

143. You're right--mechanics NEVER rip anyone off.

They are all perfectly honest. They never try to speeze a little extra out of a less-informed customer (ESPECIALLY women!)

I don't know ANYONE who has ever been to a dishonest mechanic. I'm sure everyone on this board would agree. :eyes:

[ohio_liberal]

139. Hey, I resent that

My mechanic is mad hot :loveya:

;)

[wuushew]

104. It is possible and common to buy foreign stocks

n/t

[MadHound]

85. In these days of multinational car companies

It is difficult, if not impossible, to make the clear cut decision to "Buy American" Which is more patriotic, to buy a Chevy that was built in Japan, or a Toyota that was built in the US? Buy a Chrysler, which is owned by Daimler Benz, or a Mitzubishi, which is owned by Ford.

And quite frankly, the decision of the pocketbook is a large deciding factor in most people's buying decisions, whether it concerns cars or WalMart. Buying American, while the patriotic and ideal thing to do, withers in light of the fact that to do so means that you have to pay a premium price. Stack that on top of the fact that most modern American cars are considered, both by the experts and the buying public, to be inferior than their imported competition, and thus you see why many cash strapped families go with imports.

If the Big Three would put out a car that is competitive with the imports, while at the same time durable as a tank, then I would predict that you would see the American buying public flock back to Detroit. But until that happens, Americans are going to continue to purchase imports, for they get more car for the dollar with Honda or Toyota than with the Big Three.

[DainBramaged]

39. See below

[SammyWinstonJack]

79. Wow!

"It's about money, not loyalty to American cars or workers. It's all about my pocketbook." Just :wow:

"That's how most consumers make buying decisions." Again, just :wow: So much for buy blue. Only if one can get a better deal money wise , I guess. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. We are talking about a $20 - $30K investment!

I can't afford to throw my money away out of some sense of misguided loyalty to the UAW and American car makers. Besides, as I said, they had their chance and they blew it.

[amitten]

96. It's not about "getting a deal". It's about survival. Times are

hard and a lot of people CANNOT AFFORD constant car repair bills. And they CANNOT AFFORD to drive cars that don't get them to work, don't pick up the kids from school, and don't make it to the grocery. People DEPEND on their cars. It is not about "getting a bargain". It's about having something work vs. having something that doesn't. It's about having to spend almost no money on your car for ten years vs. having to shell out several hundred yearly to keep the damn thing alive.

Do you not understand that people can't risk buying cars that don't work? We are talking about huge amounts of money here.

[madokie]

68. my '98 f150 has 123000, one set of plugs at 100000

replaced battery, thats all. Son just bought a new ranger, didn't even give it a second thought. His first automobile was a ranger and he knew from experience just how much abuse they will take. I'm sure he drove it like he stole it the whole time. Can't tell I like FORDs can you.

[lectrobyte]

101. I'd take an F-150 or a Ranger over the GM equivalents any day.

The Ranger is sort of clunky looking, but they run and run. The S-10 it replaced on the other hand...

[ProfessorGAC]

69. My Wife Has A Buick

Right now, 108,000 miles, 10 years old. Only a door mechanism (other than tires and shocks) was repaired. That's it!

I have a 1995 Chrysler LeBaron convertible with 190,000 miles on it. The only major repair was a coolant line. Total cost, $300. In ten years!

This "they don't last" stuff is just nonsense. The facts and the statistical analysis have been around for years. There is no statistically signficant difference in the durability of standard cars based upon either the country of manufacture or country of the parent corporation. The biggest factor, statistically speaking, is initial cost. So, do Mercedes last longer than Chevy's? Yes. The fleet price average is more than 2X that of Chevy. They SHOULD last longer.
The Professor

[DS1]

73. Oh Professor

Chevy's ? :cry:

[ProfessorGAC]

75. Well, Full Disclosure. I've Never Had A Chevy

I was using that only as an example. I've had Chryslers, Buicks, an Olds, and two Fords (one was a Merc). But, never a Chevy. My wife did, but that was a late 60's model that wasn't taken care of even before she had it after college. He dad located it for her. It was a piece of junk. I doubt the original owner ever had the oil changed!

But, as affordable transportation, i think they're fine, and i object to these anecdotally based declarations that GM's are crap. They're not. The facts don't bear out that "crap" description.

I know a woman that had a Benz. It was constantly in the shop. Does that mean Mercedes is crap? I know i guy that had a Supra. Bad head gasket. Injector problems. Serpentine broke three times. So, i guess Toyota's are crap too!

See what i mean?
The Professor

[DS1]

76. It was the ' that made me cry

and Toyota's ?
:cry: :cry:

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Crap! Everything Is Crap!

See, now i've settled the argument! Everything is crap!
The Professor

[amitten]

97. Stories like that are rare. In general, those cars don't last without

a lot of upkeep. Wheras a Honda (as everyone who has one knows) can run without repair...indefinitely. (Except you need oil changes.)

[DainBramaged]

106. "Wheras a Honda (as everyone who has one knows) can run without repair...i

The magic fucking car, OMG did a golden goose assemble your Honda? Christ, you mean no brakes no oil no tires, just keeps on running forever? Floating on air?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :spray: :spray: :patriot:

[amitten]

122. No. But I'm talking about the massive pain-in-the-ass repairs

that ALL THREE of my U.S.-made cars needed seemingly every few months.

Hondas don't need anywhere near the repair a lot of other cars do (though you've obviously never owned one, or you wouldn't even have posted that). :patriot:

[DainBramaged]

131. I simply don't care what you think.

[amitten]

142. Well, you also shouldn't care what I drive. n/t

[lastliberalintexas]

125. No they aren't

You like Hondas- fine. But don't try to argue that there is any real difference between the major makes and models of vehicles within the same price range. There isn't, and report after report will tell you just that if you ever decide to look.

For the record, my 2002 Ford has over 100K miles, my husband's 2003 Chevy has 50K miles, my mother's 2000 Mercury has 90K miles, my dad's 2004 Ford has 40K miles- all with only routine maintenance. The only vehicle in the family to die recently? My SIL's 2002 Toyota. Does that mean that Toyotas are pieces of junk? Of course not. And neither does any of the *anecdotal* evidence on this thread prove anything about the various car manufacturers.

And I've owned a Honda and it was a great car. But so is my Ford.

[amitten]

129. It's not uncommon for a well-maintained Honda to run up to

250 K without major repairs. Ask any good mechanic who's worked on them for years. I've never, nor have my parents or friends or anyone else I know, had a single US-made car live up to that. Honda gets my money, because Honda outlasts just about any other make, hands down.

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. Just because you have had good luck with American cars,

doesn't mean everyone does. I am thrilled for you. Really. But your good luck doesn't make my piece of shit Blazer run, now does it?

[DS1]

72. It's not the repair I'm worried about, it's the fugly, shitty, and cheap

looking interior that turns me away from American cars. I sit in a Dodge and it reeks of being designed for the Rental Car industry.

[jakefrep]

119. As opposed to the fugly, shitty and cheap interiors in Hondas?

[SharonAnn]

3. All my GM cars have been terrific! Wouldn't have anything else.

I typically have them from 6-8 years and they've all been terrific. Even my first car, a 1963 Corvair.

I've had Chevy's, Pontiac's, and Buick's. Sedan, Touring Sedans, Mini-vans, Riviera (husband's) and even a Chevy Suburban. They've all been terrific and the GM dealers in towns where I've lived have been great too (Iowa, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee, California).

Only once did I have a problem with service so I went in and had a serious talk with the service manager (in Los Angeles).

And, I'm a tall woman and they just plain fit me better than many foreign brands.

[tularetom]

5. In my lifetime I must have owned 50 cars

I'm retired now but I used to put 30 to 40,000 miles per year on a vehicle. Until just recently I had owned just one non-American made car, a 1984 Volvo 246. I had that car for 8 years and when I gave it to my son it had 275,000 miles on it. He drove it for 2 or 3 more years before he traded it in. I never had an american car that lasted more than 4 years and most of them I got rid of after 2 or 3 years or 100,000 miles because I had to make a decision whether or not I wanted to spend any more money repairing them. Finally I said fuck it and bought a Toyota Tundra pickup which is about 10 times better built than the F-150 I traded in on it. Believe me I don't fault the American auto worker - my truck was built I believe in Tennessee after all, but the US automakers do not take the long view and build cars to last. It's going to take a nasty shock for them to wake up and start building cars right and maybe it's happening now.

[DainBramaged]

8. I've owned all Chevys except for a 1987 Buick I still own

and a 1976 V6 Mercury Capri in 1979, since 1966. And I've never been unhappy with a single one.

Perception. Something that needs to change, and the marketing departments and QC didn't do as good a job as the Japanese did.

Not any more.

[tularetom]

13. If you're partially faulting QC

then the problem is obviously more than perception. Look, I feel I gave American made cars (mostly Ford but a few GM) more than a fair shake and I'd love to go back to them. But the problem is that they've now lost me and I'd have to be convinced. Is cost a factor? Well of course, but I'd be looking at overall cost. If they're prepared to back up their ad claims with some killer warranties that would definitely get my attention. But bidness as usual for american carmakers is gone and they'll have to bust their asses to get back where they once were.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. So is bad perception the reason my Blazer fell apart?

Was I perceiving the broken AC and the radio that went out at 35K miles and the electric windows that broke and cost $350 apiece to fix? Or the engine warning light that kept coming on and was due to a malfunctioning computer - was I just perceiving that wrong?

[DainBramaged]

35. Whatever, just tow the piece of shit or give it to charity

you made up your mind. Why do you keep it if it's such garbage? Planter? Attachment for sentimental reasons? Chic to blast American cars and point to your driveway while you float above the masses in your Japanese cars? Put everything American built by Union members on your front lawn and point with pride at the crap built in Japan or China since our last bastion of manufacturing is the Automotive industry.

Or is becoming the Wal Mart Nation OK with you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. But my Honda was manufactured right here in the USA

by well paid workers. So was my husband's Toyota. So if they can build a decent car that lasts, so can GM. But GM has failed to sell me a decent car. And they had many years to do so. But instead of buiding good cars that lasted and got good mileage, US auto makers have made giant gas guzzling SUVs that don't run as long as their Toyota counterparts. Now we are supposed to feel guilty for not wasting our money?

I suppose GM has no responsibility here? As Michael Moore asked, did the executives of the US auto makers even drive a Honda or Toyota around the block to see what all the excitement was about?

It's not a WalMart mentality. I can't afford to subsidize the US auto industry. Neither can most consumers.

And charity won't take a car that doesn't run. So it's yours. :)

[DainBramaged]

44. Since you won't look at model by model comparisons

and think only Toyota and Honda get "good" gas mileage.



Wait till the real world EPA mileage tests start. And what is good? What do you actually get per gallon? 14? 16? 25 in combined everyday driving? All of the import owners keep saying good mileage, but I live where you warm it up in winter, put the AC on all summer, and drive in stop and go traffic at less than 30 MPH 75% of the time. And my 8 year old Blazer gets 18 REAL MPG. Tank after tank all year round. It will get 24 traveling to Point Pleasant and back. So to me, I have a 4WD SUV with room and cargo capacity, gets me around in all weather and to the train station when I travel to NYC, and hasn't failed me.

Some piece of shit.

Perception. It makes the world go round. But it doesn't save American jobs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. My Scion gets 35 MPG

My Blazer got 15MPG on a good day. Right before I quit driving it, it was getting <10 MPG. My Honda CR-V got 24 MPG and my hubby's Toyota truck gets 20 - 25 MPG.

As far as saving American jobs, why is that my responsibility and not the car manufacturers? If they build a quality economical product, folks will buy it. Seems simple enough. Honda and Toyota figured out how to do it.

[REP]

45. National Kidney Foundation Will

I donated my 1986 Pontiac 6000LE with 286,000+ miles (and a blown head gasket) to the NKF. They'll take your Blazer, too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. We called them and they didn't want it

But I guess I could call them again.

[REP]

130. Anyone Wanting to Donate a Non-Running car to NKF - PM Me For Info!

I am a Kidney Cars Champion, and I'd be glad to help with the donation. The NKF can use the donation of any car in any condition, and you get a charitable deductiion! And you'll indirectly help a DUer - I am a kidney patient.

[DS1]

74. What the fuck is that stupid attitude? Are you serious?

First you go on about how great American cars are, and that everyone should buy them. Then when someone talks about actual failures of engineering, you blame THEM?

You asshole. I'm going to make a point of NOT buying American, just for you.

[DainBramaged]

81. Join my ignore list and go to hell

And buy foreign. I guess buying Blue just isn't your cup of tea.

[DS1]

84. Thanks, I will

And I'll be sure to toot my horn when I pass your broke down ass on the highway.

[dubyaD40web]

98. LOL! You crack me up DS1

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. LOL Sounds like a great idea to me.

:rofl:

[SPKrazy]

116. Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey

beat the hell out of any American Company's vans hands down.

Consumer Reports safety tests, reliability, gas mileage, etc.

Looked at Dodge, Ford, Chrysler vans and all rode rough in comparison, and were less comfortable all the way around.

We got the Toyota Sienna and are happy with it.

Also have a Mercury Sable 1998 that we like, but it isn't as solid feeling as a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry.

[XOKCowboy]

12. Amen...

Honda and Toyota have earned a stellar reputation for building cars that work and last. Unfortunately American car companies decided to build gas guzzling behemoths that are obsolete within a 100000 miles.

I'm thinking of buying a Honda pickup. One of the reasons is the high resale value. There's a reason for that resale value.

[XOKCowboy]

17. The Toyota Tundra...

I'm from Oklahoma. Ford pickup country. Heck I'd give an arm and a leg for a good looking '72 F-250 even now. Best looking truck that ever on the road. I digress. When I was back in OK for Christmas I was surprised at how many Toyota pickups I saw there. They're taking over the F150 market and the rednecks (my brother included) are raving about them. This is in hard core cowboy Ford country too. It was just like the 2004 elections and all the Kerry/Edwards signs in all the yards. Things are turning around in backwoods America slowly but surely.

[tularetom]

20. You shoulda heard the ration of shit I took

when I drove the Tundra to the cattle auction the first time. Now I go there and see half a dozen more of them parked outside. So yeah, I think they're making inroads even among the hard core good ol boy pickemup buyers.

[mkultra]

7. bleh

I own a Toyota and i will never go back to a gm car. If you like throwing money down the drain, then be my guest. As far as I'm concerned, they will never see another dime of my money until they start making cars that legitimately pass the 150k mark. Its an engineering problem as much as anything else.


Given the choice between a new impala for 20k and a new camry for 19K. Ill take the camry any day. At least ill still be driving it after 100K miles and it will still be worth something.

Selection and features are worthless to me on a car with a blown head gasket.

Sorry Union guys, try to get on at the toyota plant.

[DainBramaged]

10. Fine, you'll never know, enjoy the Toyota, blah to you too

[mkultra]

15. sorry

but i do know all about gm vehicles. Ive owned my far share and ive had lots of friends that have as well. If you wanna be a GM fan boy then, like i said, its your money.

Maybe you could buy one of those sweet as hummers and keep it parked at the gas station as well. That would round out the irrational appreciation.


like i said, if your in a GM car and your over 100K miles. your on borrowed time.

[DainBramaged]

25. GM Fan boy?

That's a new one. You must not appreciate Unions either. Eat the rice, I'll continue to suport GM, and inspite of your little slight, Hummers aren't marketed to folks like YOU, but you can haul cow shit in them.

Beef, it's what eats your brain.

[amitten]

11. I understand. I gave up when finally one CAUGHT ON FIRE.

Not the usual problem, I know. But...damn! :scared:

I'm sure there are plenty of great American cars on the road today. I'm just unwilling to take another chance.

[LincolnMcGrath]

14. I have a Pontiac with a quarter million miles on it.

My father doesn't even by a Jeep till it has 200000 on it, his current Cherokee has 360000 on it.

[mkultra]

18. consumer reports

Consumer Reports lays out the info pretty clearly. The Jeeps are one of the worst in terms of breakdown. Your dad must rebuild them.

[LincolnMcGrath]

19. Sorry you are wrong

Cherokees run forever.

[txindy]

24. You'd better tell that to the Cherokee up my street.

'Cause it hasn't moved forever. Wore itself out dropping parts before it croaked.

[LincolnMcGrath]

27. lol And my Ex returned her Nissan pickup under the lemon law

And we all know how complicated the lemon laws are.

[txindy]

32. Ugh. Nissan. No, thanks.

Brakes. :scared:

[LincolnMcGrath]

33. CR has always been full of beans.

Consumer Reports' ads imply that they have no bias. Their articles prove otherwise. When they say they are unbiased because they do not accept advertising, think about their logic for a moment. Is the Toyota Corolla enthusiast page unbiased because it does not have advertising? Our ideas on reducing bias are shown up front - essentially, try to make sure testers do not know which car they are testing (to avoid self-fulfilling test results) and also to keep an eye out for bias. Our friends at Consumers Guide could do that better, too - they seem to have a need to write "but not up to the best of the European/Japanese imports" at the end of every American review. Well, some of the imports aren't up to the best of the Americans - but we never read that. (If you still believe Consumer Reports, take a look at Mercedes quality ratings, and tell me about "the best of the imports!")

For that matter, we can look at their February 2005 issue, where they call the interior of the Caravan "plasticky" (no more than the Sienna in our experience); and, as "Grim" said,

, seeing them trash a car from a company I don't like confirmed their bias more than seeing them trash a car from a company I do like (where I might be biased myself). For example, in a one page review, they said five times that the Volvo had unacceptably tight rear legroom. This despite the fact that in the objective measurements published on the next page, the Volvo had as much legroom as any other car in the comparo (there were four) and more than most...They also call the Acura's gas mileage "good," while they call the Volvo's "acceptable." That's interesting, since they get the exact same mileage and the Volvo gets it on regular gas rather than premium like the Acura. They also ding the Volvo a couple of times for sluggish acceleration, despite the fact that it's only two-tenths slower to 60 than the Acura (which was "good" and "peppy"). Two-tenths falls well within the range of measurement error.

Interesting facts in a study of CR bias here http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

[REP]

52. I Had An Iron Deuce with 286,000+!

Finally had to give it up a little over a year ago when the head gasket blew - by then, the car was 19 years old and still had the finest ride ever.

[Kindigger]

16. Support the auto maker or conserve gas?

Saturday I traded a 1996 rustbucket, gas/maintenance hog Chevy Beretta with 98000+ for a 1995 Toyota Tercel with 85000. I drove 150 miles on 1/8 of a tank before filling it yesterday.

The money I save in gas alone will pay for the car. That's my choice of priorities.

[sproutster]

21. WTF ever... maybe when they put their employees above their CEO's

MAYBE WHEN THEY STOP FARMING OUT JOBS.
MAYBE WHEN THEIR DEALERSHIPS NOT CON ALZHIMERS PATIENTS OUT OF THEIR NEW TRUCK FOR A P.0.S.

Till then I'll take a fucking bus.

[DainBramaged]

26. You want to translate for us? Little bit of an example?

Or is hyperbole part of your routine?

Know what car is replacing the Hondas and Toyotas in the Californis tuner shops? NOPI racing series? Drifting? Faster than you can say Import?

[Rosco T.]

22. Ehhh.... Camaro don't do it for me.... now the upcoming Dodge Challenger..

I'll take one!

[FredUptoHere]

63. COOL...on BOTH counts

it looks like both automakers are doing throwback designs ala the mustang...i've always liked the shorter camaro/firebird models of the late 60's A LOT better than what they've put out since the 70's.

[IDemo]

23. My '93 Toyota 4x4 has only 39k miles,

so I guess I won't live long enough to witness its 'end-of-life', at only 3 thousand miles per year. The truck looks and drives like new, and I had to convince a co-worker last year that I wasn't interested in selling it.

I find the concept Camaro about as exciting as the new Mustangs; meaning, don't mess with a classic. Both models bear some resemblance to their ~1969 counterparts, but lack the raw-edge look and feel of the originals. I've owned three Mustangs, and loved them all, the '67 in particular. If I could walk into a dealer and buy a car that had the looks of a 1967-69 Mustang fastback, Camaro SS, or Firebird, along with the reliability of my 13 year old Toyota, there might be a deal. But there is also the gas price issue, along with the Peak Oil question.

Remaining on the bike for my morning commute, in the meantime.

[JVS]

114. I would say that more relevant to new mustangs and camaros...

than their comparison to the originals is their comparison to the previous generation of mustangs and camaros. I think they are improvements over the last generation of vehicle. The mustang should be much better since it is built on the Lincoln LS platform instead of a modernized Fairmont chassis.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. But will they run any better than their current pieces of crap?

Who cares how much they cost or how many different cars they make if they are as crappy as what they make now?

[DainBramaged]

29. Do you own a current one? Crappy as they make now?

Examples please.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Last one I bought brand new in 95

It started falling apart in less than a year. The heat and AC system went out almost immediately - at less than 500 miles. At 100K miles, it was on its 3rd radio. The electric windows went out one at a time beginning at 50K miles. Many many other problems, including mechanical ones.

Hubby had a 94 Lumina. Same deal. It only lived to 80K miles.

Sorry, we tried. But a car is the second costliest investment a family makes. Our Hondas and Toyotas run forever. So we keep buying them. GM lost our business.

[REP]

51. 11 Years Ago Is Not Recent

Hey, if you like Hondas and Toyotas, cool enough - they're great cars (except for the timing chain deal with Hondas). But a '95 GM is a lot different from an '05-'06; for one, the intake problem is no longer a problem.

[doc03]

42. My last Chevy was a 1977 Blazer

I had the piece of crap 3 years and traded it off after about 35000 miles. I had it rustproofed at Tough Coat, the right quarter panel rusted out in one year and Tough Coat fixed it. The left quarter panel rusted out in about 18 months, Tough Coat said they would no longer fix the piece of crap, the fine print on the contract said they would either fix the damage or refund your money, since the first repair job was about $1000 and the rustproofing cost about $250 I was out of luck. Here's the other problems I remember having with it battery, alternator, radiator, rear drive shaft universal joints, front CV joints both sides, windshield spray pump and the heater blower motor. In addition to that I got about 8MPG and had to replace both front and rear brakes. Of course brakes are a wear item, but I never had them wear out that soon. A couple months ago I considered buying a Chevy Colorado, on my test drive I found the 5 cyl engine to be crude, noisy and under powered. Also on my test drive there was a terrible rattle and a clunk on each turn, I found there was something rattling around inside the passengers side door it sounded like a big bolt or piece of pipe. Even though they were offering a great price on it I bought a Toyota for the first time. The Toyota is made in California with 70% US content.

[DainBramaged]

46. 29 years ago, no comparison, sorry.

I owned an ol Mercury Capri V6 back then. 2bbl carb, no cat. Lots of fun till I bought my 1980 El Camino.

Still doesn't count. Today is 2006. Reality is a bitch, and so are perceptions.

Enjoy your Japanese car.

[doc03]

55. I had a bad experience back then

and haven't bought a GM vehicle since, but I did like the Colorado until I drove one and it just didn't impress me at all. You will say that is an entry level vehicle I suppose and that seems to be the American companies strategy to try and force you to buy a full size truck that I don't need. There are people that want a quality smaller vehicle you know. I didn't know California was a part of Japan.

[DainBramaged]

56. If you talk to the kids, California WAS a part of Japan

when the tuner car craze hit in the early Nineties. Toyota's, Honda's, Mazda's, Acura's, Nissan's, cheap used cars they could buy and NOPI started to provide tons of parts to crank up the horsepower and handling. Just like my generation did in the 60's and 70's before we found families and careers.

Now the craze seems to be slowing down and the trend is older BMW's, New Cobalts, Mini's.

But those little Japanese screamers don't get great millage, break A LOT, and the craze hasn't spread around the country like you'd expect. Drifting is a "West Coast thing", and around here,lowered high horsepower rockets don't cut it in winter.

And in the end, rust never sleeps.

Perception, not facts. New Cobalt Xtreme is way cool truck. Wish I had the cash.

[mkultra]

89. Ive owned the following

A 87 Camero. Fell apart constantly while i drove it. Crappy mpg wasn't an issue for me at the time and didn't expect any better.

96 dodge intrepid. Fell apart constantly until my wife shortened it using another car.

97 dodge intrepid 3.0l v6. Got 22 mpg and blew a head gasket at 118K. yes, it took car of it.

97 ford aerostar. Wife drives it like a grandma. Just developed a confirmed head gasket leak. She took immaculate care of this vehicle. To bad it doesn't run as good as it still looks.

98 Toyota Avalon 3.0l v6. 24 mpg and is smooth as can be.

I have a friend that bought a 97 camry with 60K miles. He drives it like shit and just gets the oil changed. His first maintenance issue came up recently as he had the battery cable replaced at 180K miles. Ive never seen any of the 80's era on American cars top that. Maybe if they made them like they did in the past.


Before that, every friend Ive know that has had an American vehicle(aside from Saturn's) has had some kind of problem.


ITS THE ENGINEERING STUPID!

the olds Aurora requires you to drop the tranny to change out the oil pan gasket. If this doesn't say stupid, i don't know what does. And any interference type vehicle that uses a timing belt is the worst idea Ive ever heard of.

like i said. I WANT you to buy American cars. It keeps the Imports cheap. So well see who's laughing at 200K miles.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

49. Virtually Everyone involved with the 1977 blazer has retired

Only the guys who were entry level at that time are still there.

Nonetheless, the corporate culture at GM is one of fear and mediocrity.

Their latest products today are far better than that of 1977. ANd they are still mediocre at best.

[DainBramaged]

53. Fine Everything is mediocre compared to a Ferrari

And I think Japanese cars are for lemmings. 1 from column A, 2 from column B, 4 color choices, sorry, 4 cyl. only, everything optional, no you can't order, only buy from stock. We hope one comes into port in that color, would you leave us a deposit and we'll call?

Perception. Test drive some new GM cars and stop assuming.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

62. I've got a 2003 Chevy

60,000 miles and its falling apart.

Of course the reason I bought a GM product is because by father works at GM. My brother works at GM.
I worked on campus at the GM design facility out Detroit for 6 months as a vendor rep so I get the GM discount (before they started giving it to everyone).

GM produces at best mediocre cars. Ive seen it first hand, driven first hand, and heard it 2nd hand from 2 family members for more years than I care to count. There are a handful of exceptions, a few exceptions is not going to save this company.

I've worked with senior management at GM (which they have a shit load of so its not that unusual), and believe me, they govern by fear..GM 101. This culture of fear seeps in the the design and build quality from the top to the bottom. (btw if any company ever needed a Union, its GM)

GM is going to go bankrupt. I truly hope that Im wrong because it will devaste two close members of my family.

[lastliberalintexas]

128. That is an intentional act by GM, more than likely

It seems that GM is trying to get out of pension and healthcare obligations that they have, all the while moving jobs overseas. The management is a joke- which is sad because their (intentional?) demise before their rise (after they move more operations overseas, of course) will hurt many workers.

I don't fall into the category of those who say one should buy only "American" cars. But I do take issue with people saying that American cars don't last, as my experience has been quite the opposite.

[and-justice-for-all]

43. GM all the way

I only drive GM autos...I have an old Chevy Corsica I drive to work and I have a '01 Pontiac Grand Am GT coup that I love to drive...its a sweet ride. If I could swing it I would go buy a G6 tomorrow.

[REP]

48. Pontiac Fan Here

I drove (and adored) an '86 6000LE for ten years, then got a newer Grand Am. Loved One has a Grand Prix, and we're thinking about getting a new GTO.

[jakefrep]

65. Another GMer here...

..and you will love the G6 - it's a big improvement over the Grand Am.

[pstokely]

47. why a Tahoe hybrid?

I doubt it gets better mileage than a non-hybrid economy car.

[DainBramaged]

50. Why an Acura MDX 400 Hybrid?

Some people LIKE LARGE VEHICLES, tow boats and motorcycles and other recreational vehicles or camping trailers or things over 5000 lbs. Two dogs in the back or 9 passengers in comfort.

Why does everyone have to drive tiny econoboxes when their lifestyles don't match the vehicle? My neighbor is a roofer, has a long wheelbase contractor Chevy van. There are no Japanese vehicles to compare. Should he not work because he refuses to drive an econobox hybrid?

There will be a Malibu hybrid too next year. 40MPG real world expected. Is that worthy?


MDX Specs (non-hybrid)
Acceleration: 0-60 mph in 8.4 seconds Premium fuel only

Engine type; displacement: SOHC V-6; 3.5 liters*

Horsepower: 240 @ 5,300 rpm

Torque: 245 @ 3,000 rpm

EPA mileage: 17 city / 23 highway

MSRP: $34,850

Gee great milage on Premium fuel.
:sarcasm:

[LSK]

54. if you dont take care of the vehicle, it will die, no matter who made it

Change the oil every 3000 miles. Give it a grease job. Keep the tire pressure maintained. Dont drive like a maniac.

I was a huge Buy American guy for the longest time, but globalization has caught up so much that Im not sure my next car will be American. Having said that, Im driving my 94 GMC Jimmy till it dies and then will change whatever broke and drive it more.

Car payments are for fools. Find a good mechanic and become his best friend.

[Corgigal]

57. I love my Buick Crossover

She was designed by a woman and I get compliments on her all the time. If Buick is still around in 2 or 3 years I will purchase another Rendezvous.

[B Calm]

61. I'm still driving my 1990 Buick LeSabre, runs like a top, 28 mpg..

[obxhead]

59. Raise the gas mileage and make 'em reliable at 250K....

until then I'm thinking of replacing my '04 Element sometime in 2012 with yet another Honda.

PROUD owner of Honda since 1989 (only 2 of 'em) both of which had over 300K and were still tickin stong when sold....

[NMMNG]

60. I have a 97 Saturn

Over 132,000 miles on it and I've only had to have one repair done on it. Just routine maintenance otherwise. It even has the original brakes on it, though they've had to be cleaned a few times (which costs a mere $25). I have never been so pleased with a car in my driving history.

[2Design]

64. Last GM car I had 250,000 mile on it when it finally died

had a cavalier Z24
the outside still looked new
my mechanic took it and was going to put in a rebuilt enginee - it looked new on the outside

very nice cars most of the time

[mopinko]

80. my 93 suburban- 287,000 and going strong.

most of those miles are not mine- it was a fleet vehicle for it's first 4 years. but i have driven it cross country several times. it is like a rock.

[depakid]

70. GM will probably still go bankrupt

It's a case of too little, too late.

It's also a case of extreme wastefullness hoisted onto the American public for years by stupid, self absorbed upper management. The company deserves what it's going to get.

Personally, I feel bad for the workers- but that's what happens when companies pursue short term, unsustainable business strategies.

[1gobluedem]

71. The problem is the trade imbalance

If Japan would open its markets to US imports, I would feel better about buying a Japanese car. I love the Subaru Outback; I've driven it and it's, indeed, my dream car. But I have a problem with our markets being flooded with imports and not receiving reciprocity from their markets. So until the trade imbalance is settled, I'll continue to buy domestic.

[MadHound]

78. Jesus, why doesn't GM just shoot itself and get it over with

I guess they like the whole death by a thousand cuts scenario.

This move is just going to flop like the rest of what they've done lately. Most people who were in the market for a new GM product already bought them in the past four years. Between all of the 0% interest rates, no money down, and "employee discounting", GM and the other American auto makers have pretty much tapped the market out for awhile. Sure, they'll dredge up a few buyers with this stunt, but not nearly enough to stop their hemoraging of red ink, much less turn a profit.

Meanwhile, they're continuing to shoot themselve in the foot by rolling out more of the same old shit, big, gas guzzling vehicles that harken back to the golden days of yore rather than facing the reality of today and the current marketplace. What, having all of those SUV and other gas guzzlers traded in didn't get the message through to these people? Americans are still in sticker shock at the gas pump and they don't want a big gas guzzler. They want something cheap, reliable, and gets good gas mileage.

I find it simply amazing that the Big Three have survived this long. They seem to not learn the lessons of history, and continue to repeat the mistakes of the past. I would laugh at their collective stupidity except for the fact that if the Big Three go down, they're going to take a large portion of our economy down with them.

Sad, just fucking sad.

[OxQQme]

91. 1995 GMC S-15 4.3L

Paint flaking off (look around and you'll see that as common on gm made vehicles). Dealer said,"Sorry" !
Windshield wiper transmission failed.
Heater core leaked anti-freeze onto the carpets requiring new one (that I couldn't afford).
Auto trans started 'hunting' around between gears at cruise speed.
RH window crank wouldn't put the window closed without pushing on the glass with the palm of a hand.
Special tool to change the spark plugs. (WTF with that?)
Clunking u-joints.
Driver's seat adjuster locking pawl broke. (Exciting when I had to stop fast)
Ate brakes for breakfast.
Tailgate latch very dodgy.
All this within 100k.

I'm 65 years old and have owned MANY cars mostly US made. Some 'muscle/hot rod' cars, some econo type.
I had to carry tools and spare parts with a couple of them to make sure I could make it home.
Single and retired now, driving a 1999 Suzuki Swift. Purchased new, now has 103k. Tires, brakes, a battery coupla months ago, fluid changes. 43 mpg. Engine fires up on the coldest mornings even before I release the pressure on the key. Fill up in Portland,OR (ten gallon tank) and drive into N.Cal before needing gas again. 70-75 mph over the mountain passes. Cruises at 80 mph (I know, that's illegal, but if every body around you is doing the same speed......)
My main complaint: windshield washer bottle not big enuff :)

Dis-heartening to see the US car makers trying to shove their poorly designed crap onto us claiming patriotism as the defining physc.

[MadHound]

92. I've had one post '70s American branded car

That has functioned well and stood the test of time, a 1987 Nova. Trouble is that the '87 Novas were in reality Toyota Camrys that had just had the Chevy label put on them. Still runs well, good snow car at 300,000 plus miles.

I collect cars, and have a few good American cars from the forties and fifties. But that was back in the day when cars were stone cold simple and built like a rock. Somewhere in the late sixties, early seventies Detroit figured out that producing cars that lasted a long while was hurting their bottom line, so they've been putting out increasing amounts of crap ever since.

[lectrobyte]

90. Too little too late. I mean, I don't like to kick GM when they're

down, but I can't open the door without seeing one of the new retro Mustangs, and the Camaro is coming back in '07? They brought back the GTO, but it looked like an old plastic Grand Am or something. They finally answered the PT Cruiser with that HHR, what, 7 years after it came out? I'm sorry, I just don't see much in the car line (or the truck line either, come to mention it) that would make me pick GM over Ford or Toyota or Honda. The Pontiac 2 seater looks interesting, but their crossovers just seem like they are late to the party, i.e, hasn't every company (and potential customer) already got an SUV?

[jakefrep]

120. Toyota and Honda don't make anything I would pick over GM

You want slow, boring, and ugly? Buy a Toyota or Honda because that's pretty much all they make. They just don't offer much in the way of performance or styling. No GTO, no Camaro, no 300C, no Mustang.

The nearest import brand dealer (of any kind) is an hour away from my house. In the event that I have to take the car into the dealer for service, that means a half-day off of work - since none of those same dealers will come pick my car up at my home or office when it needs to have work done. In my town, there are dealers representing all of the Big 3 brands, and service, when needed, is much more convenient. For me, none of the import brand offerings in my price range are compelling enough to overcome the inconveniences of the ownership experience.

Don't let the adulation heaped on the hybrid offerings fool you - Toyota and Honda are heavily invested in the gas-guzzler side of things, as shown by their expanding lineup of big trucks and SUV's. They NEED the profits from sales of big trucks and SUV's to subsidize unprofitable hybrids. Toyota is building a huge new plant in San Antonio to build their new full-size trucks.

[lectrobyte]

141. I agree with you on the Mustang, but I'd have really have to

argue with you on some of the others. GTO seems pretty bland and boring, at least from a styling department. Camaro/Firebird haven't been in production for a couple of years. 300C? You're sending money to Germany on that one, but it does look distinctive. And a four door Charger? Uncle Jesse would just spit some 'backy juice on that one. But when it comes to bread and butter sedans, the market share is something like Camry/Accord/Taurus all battling it out. Not sure GM is even a player. And as far as performance, I'm more worried about how much money is it going to suck up in gas or repairs over the ten years I usually try to keep a car. That's a kind of performance, and I don't want to bore you with a lot of details, but at one time we were a GM family. Now we are a Ford/Toyota family, with no regrets. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

[bullwinkle428]

102. Is Daimler Chrysler still considered one of the Big 3?

This is a serious question...I'm not trying to be sarcastic. (WRT American vs. foreign-based, and where the profits end up)

[Coexist]

103. Wow - 97 Explorer here with 150K

minor repairs - I thought I had a high-mileage vehicle. You people make it seem brand new!!

My mother bought a Saturn at the same time - just minor stuff on hers, too.

I've never owned a GM, but we are definately a Ford family. One thing I don't understand, how is a car having problems at 110K evidence that it is a piece of crap? Mind you, I am the only one I know around here who drives a car as old as mine. They all get new cars every couple of years - must be nice!!

I think if a car makes it to 100K - you probably got your money out of it. Especially if you have only had minor maintenance (oil and brakes) and repairs (electric window issue).

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. Considering that most Toyotas and Hondas run well past 200K miles,

no problems at 100K is not an unreasonable standard.

[DainBramaged]

134. You forget one thing about this thread

I posted this thread because GM did a good thing by reducing their pricing to induce customers to try them or to come back.

You've spent this entire thread bashing American cars and by default Unions and Union workers. And by doing this you happily promote the purchase of imports to the detriment of the Union worker. The Democratic worker.

If you love your little import so much, start an "I love Japanes cars" thread. And I promise I won't post in it.:evilfrown:

[Coexist]

140. My point was - I know many people who owned

Toyotas and Hondas, as well as Fords and GMs, but no matter how long they COULD last, none kept them even CLOSE to long enough to get them to that high mileage (unless they were diesel trucks - they kept those forever).

You posters are unusual in that you EXPECT to keep them at least that long. That was all.

[Catfight]

111. I guess it's "Oh well," for me. I think the camero looks like the mustang

[tammywammy]

113. I traded in my 01 Chevy Cavalier

with 93K miles on it. All in all, it really didn't have any real problems, esp considering that all I did was change the oil. The fan went out, but that's it.

I got rid of it, thinking that if it hit 100K miles it would basically just explode and need a lot of maintenance. So, I traded it in and got an 06 VW Beetle TDI (diesel).

The Cavalier gave me 30 mpg, which I was happy with, but I'm getting around 48/49 right now in the Beetle, and it's hardly broken in. Plus I can use biodiesel in the Beetle and be nice to the environment. :)

[montana500]

115. GM is losing because they build junk.

Same goes for Ford.

[jakefrep]

121. No, they don't.

[DainBramaged]

135. Another factless statement.. Japanes cars hurt American jobs

THAT is fact.

[montana500]

144. Really?

Seems to me toyota is opening plants all over the country while others are closing them.

[DainBramaged]

146. Prove it, I know where the next plant is opening, do you?

[BeTheChange]

118. Subaru, Honda or Toyota..

They are the only cars Ill buy. My grandfather worked for Ford for 30 years and even with the discount that my mom gets I refuse to buy another ford. I had a 90 Escort.. crap.. Then my mom bought a new one in 2001.. crap.

We had Ford trucks.. again, crap.

99 Taurus.. crap..

99 Camaro Z28 Crap.

Which brings us to:

96 Honda Civic... champ with spotty oilchange history at best.

97 Subaru Outback... I love this car. We have been good with maintenence, but she is simply a great car.

I refuse to buy a product over and over again that hurts me financially. It is just as antithetical to the American work ethic to continue to settle for bad over and over again.

[Skip Intro]

123. The new retro mustang looks better.

Sorry, it just does.



Holy shit, that's an awesome looking car.

:D

[LincolnMcGrath]

127. Every so often, a car makes me want let go a a few tightly held bucks,

That is one for sure.

[DainBramaged]

136. Watch out, the import lovers will tar and feather you

They tell us they are true progressives, they avoid Wal Mart, try to live eco-friendly, but won't give up their imported iron. How can people live a lie like that?
Sorry, I'll take my chances with American steel and technology. And if my '98 blows up, there's always the '03 Malibu my Beloved drives with 13k on the odometer. That should out live me at the current rate we use it.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/lemon_law/secret_warranties.html

I loved this sentence from the article;

Interestingly, Asian and European automakers are vague in their description of their warranty obligations. Honda, for example, uses the term "goodwill" as a euphemism to describe its warranty extensions.

Truth is, they (these couple of import owners here) are the exception, not the rule. And buying Blue and supporting Unions in spite of my meager income is more important than hoping to get lucky when I buy an imported car.

Current model Honda and Toyota recalls

http://www.automotive.com/new-cars/recalls/01/honda/

http://www.automotive.com/new-cars/recalls/01/toyota/index.html

gee, no major defects here huh? I guess recalls don't court.

And those nasty Chevy's, for a mis-printed tire size label. My my what junk.:think:

http://www.automotive.com/new-cars/recalls/01/chevrolet/index.html

[Sgent]

137. I look at cost to own

hence -- look here http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2005/index.html

There are exactly 2 American vehicles listed -- the Chevy Colorado and Dodge Carvan.

That's out of 26 different types of vehicles (truck, light truck, etc.)

Build better cars, get better sales.

[Swamp Rat]

138. Let me know when they make solar powered flying saucers like the Jetsons

Until then, I'm riding a bicycle.

[Paulie]

145. My Camaro was made in CANADA

Heart beat of NORTH America I guess. My 2000 Camaro is the last GM product I will buy until they leverage all that knowledge in Hybrid technology that is just sitting at the ElectroMotive division. I owned 4 Olds before the Camaro (and a couple of Ford beaters). I now have a Prius, and I don't see myself looking anywhere else, since there is no comparisons out there in the market.

Oh, and this is the concept car I am drooling over: http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/volta.html

[ScreamingMeemie]

147. The back end is nice....but the front end is a disaster.

:hi: