Concerned about the attitude displayed on "Country Boys"

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

This was a mini series that aired on PBS this week. I caught part of the last show. For those who didn't watch, it's a documentary about two boys living in Appalachia-Davy KY, to be specific. In one scene in the high school, a teacher asked the class if they thought a girl who had been raped by her father should have the option of getting an abortion. One person timidly raised their hand, and -you guessed it- she appeared to be the only girl in the class. Her half-hearted defense of her position was that she knew a kid who was the product of incest and "his feet and hands was turned around backwards". The teacher said that that didn't always happen, and the class went on.

I found this very disturbing. Apparently there are places in this country where even the crime of rape and incest must be "looked over" in the interest of saving a fetus. Is this sort of reasoning prevelent in Appalachia, or do you think the scene was just put in to try and give that impression? I live in the Ozarks, and am used to people stereotyping the "hillbillies", so I'm wondering if this scene was catering to stereotype or not. In the last part of the scene, Cody, one of the stars of the documentary, says that people's beliefs should be based not on what their families say, but upon beliefs they themselves have thought out-perhaps a good thought, but rather chilling in my mind since he was one who felt that that baby should be born. (He was studying to be a minister, btw)

I can tell you that here in Arkansas a woman's right to an abortion if she were raped is not questioned very often-in fact, I don't think anyone has ever thought that incest resulting in pregnancy should not result in a termination.

[sandnsea]

1. I missed the last two

I hope it reruns. I caught the first night, then missed the last two. What happened to the boys?

My family lives in Arkansas, but around Little Rock. I was really surprised by the first night of this documentary as I'm not familiar with the Appalachians at all. I guess I do see some of the one mother's lack of support for school, occasionally, but I was still surprised by it. And, of course, it exists in inner cities too, not just rural America. I felt so bad for the one, he seemed to really have a desire to do better, underneath it all. The school wasn't the most stimulating environment either, so frustrating. I know everybody's doing the best they can with what they have, but damn. Little hearts and how many words can you make out of valentine??? We were doing that in 4th grade, not high school.

[kurth]

3. Sad outcome for Chris

In a nutshell: The smart boy, who grew up in a trailer and tried so hard, is still without family. He lost his father to alcohol, and then his mother who moved to Florida. Chris is currently living with an illiterate roommate and working low-wage jobs.

Cody, the Christian metal rock boy with an inheritance, is doing well. He married his girlfriend and both are attending college.

"Country Boys" was a great American documentary. Thank you, PBS!

[AlCzervik]

9. oh i felt such a sense of gloom for him at the end when he was driving

away hoping his mother would allow him to live with her. And Cody, he was a different person by the end, he'd grown up so much, i think Liz was such a stabilizing force in his life along with Jessica, i wished Chris had the same opportunity.

[trof]

12. Saw most of it last night. First time I've seen it.

Chris's illiterate roomie was mind blowing.
I had to keep reminding myself that this kid was not an actor.
Riveting.

[AlCzervik]

18. jay-he is a really nice kid and in a way i guess he is Chris's support

system.

[moose65]

2. I didn't see it, but........

I suspect they put that in to give the impression that the people in that town are backward and ignorant. These documentaries are kinda like reality TV.. they're not real and they always have a prevailing viewpoint from the producers or creators. I'm used to seeing "real" people from the Appalachian region stereotyped as hopelessly backward hillbillies. In fact, the word "Appalachia" itself is a stereotype that automatically conjures up images of inbred, backward ignoramuses. "Appalachia" is a term coined by outsiders for this region; no one who lives here uses that word to describe the region. Guess what, folks? We have universities here, we have the internet, we are just as connected to the outside world as anyone else!

[sandnsea]

6. It really wasn't like that

Having lived in small towns all my life, I wasn't terribly surprised by the lack of opportunity and how that discourages young people. And I wasn't surprised by the kind of aimlessness of the kids. They were just typical rural teens, dealing with what life dealt them. What I was surprised with was the religion, because even though our town has the same thing, it isn't all consuming. Or maybe it isn't there either and they just picked up on the one teen doing the Christian rock band thing, they'd probably be able to find one in my town too. In fact, I know a girl who was so bright, she received an award in 7th grade and went to Washington DC. She had such a future and everybody thought she'd get scholarships to college and go on and become some sort of biologist. Instead, she got consumed by a fundie church, got married, works at a coffee shop, and that's the end. So the hopelessness and dead end is more a problem of rural America than "Appalachia" I suppose. Fundie religion has moved in to fill the empty hole that lack of opportunity has left.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. I know

Later on in the show, they had one of the boys getting ready to attend a college-not Beria (might not have spelled it right), but another college that gives poor kids a chance at a four year higher education. I was impressed with the campus and what they were offering. Just wanted you to know that the entire film wasn't slanted to the "ignorant inbred hillbilly" stereotype.

[theHandpuppet]

20. You were thinking of Berea College

A wonderful place that could use support. Even though it wasn't the place Cody attended (I don't know the college to which you might be referring) I thought some of you might like to learn a bit more about Berea: http://www.berea.edu/

[SharonAnn]

42. No, it was Alice L???? college. Better deal than Berea for Chris.

But, enmeshed in the dynamics of an alcoholic family, he couldn't shake it by himself. He flunked the ACT test (no prep, no practice) and couldn't attend Alic L??? colege after all.

What a heartbreak.

I saw a need for treatment of clinical depression and a need for AlAnon in Chris's life. He had no support from his Mother, actually he was supporting her with his SSI. When he turned 18 and the SSI quit, she moved away.

What a mother!

My heart is still breaking for him. So much potential and trying so hard.

[kurth]

49. It's Alice Lloyd College

http://www.alc.edu/

Since the College became a four-year institution in 1980, hundreds of students have earned baccalaureate degrees, and many alumni have completed graduate and professional programs at little or no personal cost through the continued support from Alice Lloyd College. Many of these graduates have returned to the mountains as teachers, physicians, attorneys, and other leaders of their communities....

[Bridget Burke]

13. I haven't seen it either.

But I would watch it before making a detailed critique.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

45. Utter bullshit. You didnt see it and therefore you have no idea

what youre talking about. The film was a subtle, wonderful, tragic
portrayal of two young and full human beings and their families
and struggles. Watch it and then maybe you'll have some idea of
how full of crap your biased comments are.

[renie408]

4. I live in SC

and that attitude is prevalent here, too. My son is VERY liberal and goes to a smallish high school (515 kids in 4 grades) and is constantly coming home freaking out over things he hears in school. Not so much from the teachers in the high school. (We got THAT in the grade school. The one I took my daughter out of so we could homeschool her.) But many of the students are fundamentalist Christian. One girl stood up in Science when the teacher just mentioned evolution in passing and said that if he was going to talk about evolution, she was walking out. I wish he had let her walk out and given her an F. I think that all kids need something to get worked up over and these kids have chosen religion.

[EST]

5. I grew up in the W.Va. hills and it was not uncommon

to hear the adults talking, sotto voce, about the family whose father and mother were brother and sister. The son, whom I knew fairly well, was pretty severely retarded. The mother was bald and wore this awful old wig and all of them were heavy tobacco chewers.
They were really nice people, just a little slow, very poor and quite illiterate. It didn't particularly bother me: I really didn't see what all the fuss was about.

[ComerPerro]

7. In that area, some of the FReepers probably don't understand

why the "who is a product of incest" part of the situation is any different than any other pregnancy.

"What's the big deal? We're all products of incest"

[Beausoir]

10. My jaw dropped too! That teacher is a loon.

I think she was just trying to interject her personal anti-choice views on her classroom.

I was so sad to see Chris seemingly fail after all he went through.

[CornField]

11. You still don't get it, eh?

Let me see if I can explain it better than the way it was presented.

Imagine the overt outrage if we were to read a news story about parents who murdered their toddler because that toddler was diagnosed with some dehabilitating disease. This is how some view abortion -- calculated murder of a child -- and, regardless of cause, murder can never be viewed as something acceptable.

I also assure you that there are people in Arkansas who believe this as well as in every other state. It goes back to the whole "mystery of life" or the "miracle of conception" -- man can never fully understand god and the giving of life is something firmly within the hands of god and not to be messed with by outside forces. Therefore, the moment egg meets sperm, we not only have life, but human life and American personhood. They do not care about biology. They do not fear any/all pregnancy complications because all of it is chalked up to "God's will."

You also find a complete disconnect between the child post-pregnancy the child they perceive pre-pregnancy. Somehow the new life is closer to God and needs the protection of his followers. Once that life has been removed from the womb, however, things begin to change -- the moment of the miracle has come and gone. Since the child was then a miracle of God, it is now placed in the hand of God, for either reward or punishment depending upon the child's and the parents' actions. Poverty then, isn't something to be messed with either because it is one of the ways that God himself deals with unruly subjects.

[Bill McBlueState]

22. what a bleak picture

It's sad how belief in magical beings can so effectively keep people from doing what's best for them. Fighting poverty, preventing the birth of a child who can't be cared for, it goes on and on.

[kentuck]

14. Did you notice all the church signs and music connections?

These young people are very brainwashed by religion, like in many other parts of the country, and that was a confusing question that had no answer for them. Just because they didn't raise their hands did not mean they agreed - it could have meant they did not know...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Yes

Realize that music is the main focus of my spiritual practice, and I see a direct connection between music and spirituality. That being said, the "song" Cody sang was, to my ears, really discordant and something that made me feel anything but peaceful and spiritual. I almost turned off the TV, the music was so grating. I turned to my husband and said, "Nothing like the Dances of Universal Peace, is it?"

[theHandpuppet]

16. I'll admit I had to turn it off after the first hour

It was really just too painful for me. My partner and I were also appalled at what passed for their "science teacher" who lectured the class on the dangers of "cloning" research in such a manner that it smacked of religious bias. i'm wondering if the "School of David" is somehow connected to a church?

[MountainLaurel]

38. It was a private school

Geared toward kids who had problems in regular schools, and it was supported or tied to a church of some sort. Here's the transcript of a chat with the director that you might be interested in:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/01/03/DI2006010301215.html

[elehhhhna]

17. You missed the second episode--where the teacher dismisses

evolution by stating "Jesus was NOT a monkey!"

Really. The kids seem smarter than their teachers.

[theHandpuppet]

21. Was it that same science teacher?

She ought to have her teaching certification revoked.

[elehhhhna]

27. blonde middle-aged woman? If so, yes.

[theHandpuppet]

30. Yep, that's her

I'm only sorry that these impressionable children were having their opinions/knowledge of the world shaped by that loon. She is an embarrassment to the noble profession of teaching.

[kentuck]

31. I thought that was a different teacher??

When she said, "Only one?", I thought she was asking from a liberal perspective. I don't think that was the same teacher that said "Jesus was not a monkey"...

[FreedomAngel82]

40. So why is she a science teacher?

:eyes: She doesn't believe in science or the purpose of science so why in the world is she a science teacher? This is why Bush doesn't fund NCLB so they can stay this way and in return turn to religion and their preachers tell them who to vote for instead of reading their own Bible's and using their own minds.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theHandpuppet]

24. You know, that kind of bigoted comment is really uncalled for

My father's family all come from Pike County, KY and just so you'll know, I'm alerting on this post.

[kentuck]

26. The last stereotypical comment on earth...

:shrug:

[kentuck]

23. Why did Cody make it and Chris did not ??

If their financial situations were reversed, would Cody have made it? Poverty is a deep hole which is not easy for a kid to escape. The constant fight not to simply give up is always there. No money for rent or food. Car needs work and no money to fix it.

That was the message I took from the documentary. If Chris had had more family support and was living in the middle-class, I think he had the potential to be very successful. I think he just gave up, which is what many kids in that situation do. Although both kids had experienced a lot, Chris's position was more difficult, in my opinion. And I speak from experience of growing up in much worse conditions than Chris in that same part of Appalachia. I attribute my "success" (survival) to my very strong mother. No man in the world could ever fill her shoes.

[AlCzervik]

25. i wish Chris had his own Liz.

[Hamlette]

32. was it the difference in their financial situation or their "mothers"?

I want to adopt Chris.

You couldn't help but notice that some of the people were playing to the camera, which is natural so it's hard to know if we really "saw" Chris and all of his problems...having said that, I was SO pissed at his mother. To think that he overcame as much as he did living with her.

I couldn't help think Chris' mother was more like the grandparents who tried to scam Cody out of his inheritance. (I was screaming at the TV "don't sign it") The pressure she put on Chris to buy her car, and wondering if it made the difference between him trying harder to get into college.

Then again, you look at his mom and realize that she's had a life of cleaning motel rooms (I've done it, it's a horrible job, and I always leave a tip when I stay in a hotel...I'd like to encourage you to do the same) because she has no choices either.

There was a bias in the school in favor of religion...more so than when I was in school. You begin to understand why they are so "ignorant" when their science teacher says "some people believe in evolution, I don't, you get to decide if you do too." She should be fired but more importantly you'd like to think that viewers will make the connection.

I saw the whole thing. I love my TIVO for things like this.

[SharonAnn]

43. Chris lived in an alcoholic family, daily, with all its dystfunction.

No Al-Anon and no treatment for his own clinical depression.

It's amazing he got as far as he did. And it's a crying shame that he didn't get farther because I think he's unbelievably capable.

But we see him time and again, getting enmeshed in the alcoholic thinking that goes on in this kind of environment. Taking care of his mother instead of himself.

And when his SSI runs out, she moves. What a mother!

[TNOE]

28. I really enjoyed this program

although I missed the 1st night entirely & half of last night. I hope they run it again too. This really is life in these small towns where there is NOTHING else - not much hope of a good education, not much hope of a good job, not much hope of life ever getting any better, so belief in God is their only hope. And religon is pushed hard and you are pretty much shunned if your not a "church goer". So you're either a drunk or or a religous freak.

[SoCalDem]

36. You can watch them online by going to frontline's website

They have shows going back for YEARS~

[TNOE]

37. Thanks

hard for me to do - but thanks for letting me know.

[kurth]

29. It's politics too, not just geography

I've spent significant time in Appalachia and lived among the "mountain people" there. Yes, I saw abhorrent poverty and ill health and substance abuse and illiteracy. I met many who had zero dental care and the only dental appointment they'd ever had was to pull out their teeth. But I also saw cable TV and net access in several trailers in even the most remote areas. And I saw the Darwinian class system at work: The land owners and factory managers lording over their SSI tenants and their minimum-wage workers who struggled daily to survive and to whom a trip to Dolly World or Myrtle Beach was a luxury, the corrupt political bosses and their sheriffs who employed nobody but their own family and relatives, the fire-breathing preachers with their nice houses and cars and little mistresses who exhorted damnation for the Islam heathens and obedience to the GOP. The natural beauty there was breathtaking, the devotion to faith and family that I witnessed was something out of a 19th-century novel, the music was beautiful and genuine and heartfelt. But that class system from the old mining days was still firmly in place. Watching "Country Boys" I had the sense Chris would vote Blue, while most everybody else - his David School teachers (especially his science teacher), Cody and his family - would vote Red (out of patriotism or religion)...

[SharonAnn]

44. That patronage system is still alive and well. It was quite a shock to

me to find out that here, the same few families still run the town. The same ones, that is, who ran it 100 years ago. The mill owners, the sheriff, the banker, etc.

[peekaloo]

33. There was a scene in science class where the teacher poo-pooed

evolution. The class laughed about the monkey correlation and Cody pointed out Jesus didn't look like an ape. :eyes:

Seems Cody was trying to back off that Minister path in the finale though.


edit:oops didn't see post #17

[mitchum]

41. That's right: monkeys don't have blue eyes and flaxen hair like Jaysus

[Bozita]

34. NYT TV Review | Growing Up in Appalachia Between Hope and Despair

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/arts/television/09heff.html?pagewanted=print
January 9, 2006
TV Review | 'Country Boys'

Growing Up in Appalachia Between Hope and Despair
By VIRGINIA HEFFERNAN

A typical fight in Chris Johnson's trailer home concerns the uses of money. "My mother gave my father $25 to buy cigarettes, but he drank it up," Chris explains, affronted, but evidently sensitive to the irony. "So the first thing she did was dumped a jug of water on him."

A sweet and doleful study in self-sabotage begins on PBS tonight in a three-part documentary about Appalachian adolescence called "Country Boys." The program focuses on two unrelated teenage boys, Chris Johnson and Cody Perkins, and Chris is hands-down the more interesting; he has a curious, slightly artificial way of talking, and his morose conviction that nothing he does will ever work out is unaccountably matched by surges of awesome initiative: to start a newspaper, to lead a choir, to ask a girl out.

Sometimes hope and despair meet in a single thought, as when he announces to his high school class that he'll be holding singing tryouts:

"Well, I'm going to be taking names today, at lunch, to whoever wants to sing in the choir. And whoever don't. Doesn't matter. But I really encourage everyone to try out. There's really no initiation. Heck, it may even get you out of a few classes. But give it a shot, you may like it."

Chris's family lives at what he calls the "head of the hollers" in Floyd County in eastern Kentucky. His mother, Sheila, is a housekeeper at the Holiday Inn. His father, Randall, is a scapegrace - a figure out of Mark Twain. The Johnsons own a lumbering black pig that sometimes gets into Randall's booze.

more...

[AX10]

35. Smal towns tend to offer very little in the way of a future.

Sadly, things such as this have become acceptable.

[stevedeshazer]

39. I enjoyed it, but it really should have been called "Small Town Boys".

I confess, I didn't catch that moment.

[earth mom]

46. Why didn't Chris get more help when he failed the A.C.T.?!

I saw the last 2 episodes and Chris' story really broke my heart! But what I didn't get was why there was no follow up or help when he failed the A.C.T. Aren't there books available to prep for the A.C.T.? I'm pretty sure he could have taken it again-so WHY didn't anyone help him-teachers or counselors-with this since he was so damn close to going to college?! :banghead:

[faithnotgreed]

47. that was one of my questions also

i cannot believe that the head of the david school (or any of the teachers etc who were so marvelous and supportive of chris) didnt tutor him and have him retake it when he was better prepared

to have a college education paid for is too good to pass up
i wish the documentarian would have explained if chris had been offered any further assistance including being able to take the ACT a 2nd time

again i cannot imagine there was not some offer of assistance from someone at the school - to study and retake the ACT if nothing else

[Bozita]

48. He seemed to want a car more than college classes

He was angling for a car before he failed the ACT.