Is this "hearing" the death of the Democratic Party?

[Atman]

Oh, sure, they'll still be a fundraising organization, but what fucking "party?" We have about two people in DC who are still willing to stand up for the people. What is the point of being a democrat any more?

[ewagner]

1. The media is trying

desperately to make it that way...I swear to God, they're marginalizing Democrats every chance they get....they're going absolutely OVERBOARD with their criticism or belittling of the Democratic Party.

I'm very concerned about this.

Very worried.

[rodeodance]

2. please drop in on the official thread so I can participate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x118486

[bryant69]

3. It's dissappointing

But not surprising; stopping Alito was a long shot, and everybody knows it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Atman]

4. But if we cannot stop such a blatant liar, what good are we?

Not everyone will be THIS bad, but they will be bad. If we can't muster enough cajones to stand up to a bald-faced liar like Scalito, what chances to we have of ever stopping the republican juggernaut?

[Tesha]

10. Why we're just keeping our powder dry!

Someone in Maryland, there's a whole freaking warehouse full of all that
dry powder that the Dems have been squirriling away. A little when they
failed to really contest the Selection of 2000, more when they rolled over
for all of Bush's nominees including Rice and Ashcroft, more on the USA
PATRIOT Act, more on Alberto Gonzalez, more on PATRIOT II, more on
Rice's elevation, more on Roberts, and now even more on Scalito.

Why someday, you just know it's gonna blow, and when it does, it's
gonna blow big!

Tesha

[madinmaryland]

18. Where is the powder?

I'll direct them to it!!

[Tesha]

19. I've now heard a rumor...

> Where is the powder?
> I'll direct them to it!!

Thanks, but I've now heard a rumor that the warehouse isn't in Maryland,
but is actually in Delaware, and it's owned in the name of a shadowy
Biden-linked corporation.

Tesha

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. And what would you hide

in such a warehouse?

[bryant69]

12. You might consider that your particular take on Alito may not line up

with everybody elses.

Also, for clarification, what lies are you talking about?

[Atman]

17. His lie about CAP, for one. Vangaurd, #2.

You can't square his explanations with the truth. He wants it both ways...he claims he doesn't recall belonging, or going to any meetings. And it appears the box of Rusher's documents may back that up. So then, he lied on his resume to get the job under Reagan. One or the other. He either lied on his resume, or he's lying about not belonging to CAP.

As for Vangaurd, the lie is by implication. He's changed his story about recusal at least four times. It was a computer glitch, I forgot, all sorts of bullshit, in which case we must follow the money. The "forgot" or the "glitch" profited him handsomely. What do YOU think. Another conveeeeeeenience? Don't you find it odd how many wonderful, happy conveniences seem to befall anyone involved with BushCo, even Bush himself, who was fortunate enough to be on the winning end of literally every single computer glitch in the 2004 election. It strains credulity to the breaking point. This man is liar. "Say anything Sam." He will do or say anything to advance his personal agenda, and if that agenda was to be county dog catcher, it would reprehensible. But it not, it for the highest court in the land, sitting in judgement over our lives. It is beyond reprehensible, it is now criminal.

I am not in favor of confirming a liar, a criminal, to the SCOTUS. How about you?

[bryant69]

29. OK. Well obviously I don't give a damn

The Vanguard is bad; you have to wonder why it's not more of the story.

The CAP charge is just partisan bullshit. We don't like conservatives; if Bush puts up a conservative we aren't going to like him and lay into him. And any straw we find we will pick up.

I don't like Alito; I hope he doesn't get confirmed (although I'm not that hopeful). But more than that I wish our side would get our collective act together.

Bryant
Check ito ut --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Atman]

30. Why is the CAP charge "partisan bullshit?"

If you lied on your resume, would you get fired?

Just today, here in Connecticut, there is a front page story about a staffer of the Governor's getting fired because it turned out he padded his resume. And that is just the state government in a puny NE state. We're talking about the highest court in the land, and you're saying the same offense is just partisan bullshit? Doesn't the fact that the man cannot even be trusted to truthfully fill out a job application trouble you just a little bit? Why are so quick to dismiss it. It seems of the utmost importance to me that a SCOTUS justice is a known liar. Your attitude amazes me!

[bryant69]

37. So it isn't the racism, it's the lying?

Seems like I've heard that before.

Are you just trying to uphold the rule of law?

Would such issues honestly bother you to this extent if he were a Democrat?

Bryant

[Atman]

38. YES!

A liar is a liar. It isn't the racism at all! Reprehensible as it is, that isn't the issue. It is the bald-faced lying to the confirmation committee. The man LIED to gain employment. You and I would be fired for that. As I pointed out, an official here in CT just yesterday was fired for the same thing! I don't give a rat's ass who is lying to me, I DON'T LIKE BEING LIED TO! And I think it a piss-poor quality to have in a person judging what is right and wrong for the rest of us.

[wixomblues]

40. It's not a lie, and he wasn't an active memeber.

He joined because of the ROTC issue, and most likely was solicited through an alumni mailer or magazine, and donaed money to CAP for an honorary membership. I'm a member in quite a few organizations, and I've put them on my resume, although I'm not active. In twenty years, or twenty years ago, I can understand forgetting about one of them, or more. But the records show he wasn't active, he didn't attend meetings, or even subscribe to the magazine.

It is partisan bullshit. You can't prove he lied, and the issues that do matter get swept aside.

[Atman]

43. You actually believe the ROTC angle, huh?

You seem to remember that YOU belonged to organizations like CAP. You're not the least bit uncomfortable with the fact that this young man cannot remember ever even joining the organization? It doesn't have any stench to you at all?

Wow.

I'm biting my tongue now. I don't want to be tombstoned after all these years!

[wixomblues]

46. It's not a question of buying, it's a question of caring.

And it's not a rightwing angle. The records KENNEDY asked for proved that he didn't participate in CAP. SO, he was either lieing about being a memeber, or he forgot, now, that he joined. When I was in college, and grad school, I joined dozens of groups. I'm sure some might escape me. Or he could be lieing. I don't know, neither do you. It doesn't seem unreasonable that he's tellign the truth based on the evidence. And either way, it's a non-issue without definitive proof one way or the other. So, whether I agree with Republicans or not shouldn't matter, if there is a logical progression of thought. To assume that they are always wrong or always lieing is juvenile. Alito is who he is, someone that no Democratic President would nominate. Period.

[Atman]

47. I don't assume they are always wrong or always lying

Actually, I assume they're always lying. It is a good starting poing with these people, and it saves a lot of time and dashed hopes. But I digress...

Seriously, I take umbrage (yesterday Arlen Specter Word Of The Day) to your characterization. I think it is naive to think that a man so heavily coached, and who is supposed to be such a brilliant mind, to "forget" belonging to CAP. If for no other reason than that it had to come up in the vetting process. He KNEW it would be asked about. It didn't surprise him, and to think a man that can remember so many details of the cases he's presided over, yet can't remember a controversial club he belonged to, which just happened to be founded by a now-well-known publisher of a popular conservative magazine...man, I didn't fall off the pumpkin truck. You said yourself you joined dozens of groups. Alito joined TWO. And he put one on his resume to get a job under the Reagan administration. And we're expected to believe he didn't remember it? If your own kid tried to pull some crap story like that, you'd ground him for a week.

There could be definitive proof if someone on the judiciary committee had an ounce of balls besides Kennedy, and he already shot 'em with a beer chaser.

[wixomblues]

49. Fair enough.

The CAP issue was well know before the hearings, and I haven't read very quote on teh subject. You make good points, and it is a weird deal. I can't get too fired up defending minutia, it's too aggrvating, since I don't really care for Alito. Ah, this brave new world. It's amazing Bush got his two nominees in so easily. He;s nt exactly a popular guy. This is pure party power now, and a disinterested public. I do hope, and this is legit, that Alito rises above our expectations. The Court has that effect sometime.

[rockymountaindem]

23. Hey, we can't stop him anyway

If we had a majority, maybe we could, but not now. Even if we fillibuster, Frist will go nuclear to please the fundies because he wants to be President, and his time to gain brownie points is coming to a close in November. That would be bad, but I doubt many people in the general public would notice. Fillibusters, I think, are usually seen in public as the last act of the desperate.

If you want to get mad, ask why we didn't stop Clarence Thomas. But that was years ago, when I was a toddler. It seems that is far back enough to be out of most people's memories.

Hey, at least we stopped ANWR drilling and got higher living allowances for soldiers and health care increases for vets. And not one single Dem voted for the Republicans' service-cutting budget.

[Bandit]

34. stopping the republican juggernaut?

:rofl:

[Atman]

35. Thanks for a worthless post

Perhaps you have an emoticon that explains what's so funny.

You don't think we've been steamrolled, or you don't think they can be stopped?

[Bandit]

39. It is pretty damn obvious we can't stop a damn thing

Just the idea you all think it is possible at this stage of things is hilarious.

[Atman]

41. Who is "you all?"

And why the hell have you wasted 13,000 posts here if you thought stopping Bush was a Quixotic endeavor?

[long_green]

5. Been asking myself that question for a while

The party is on the clock as far as I'm concerned. This country is in the hands of criminally insane men who are corrupt and incompetent (as far as actually running a nation is concerned). They have a LOOOONNNNGGGG record to back up anyone making a claim about their corruption, incompetence, and criminality. If the Democratic party cannot work up the passion to energetically oppose this, let alone defeat it, then they do not deserve our votes. If they screw up 2006 and 2008 like I think they will, I will wash my hands of them and start working on creating a politics for post-Imperial, post-prosperity America (if we live to see it).

[G_j]

6. Ashcroft, Gonzales, Goss, Negroponte, Roberts

etc. etc. etc.

quite a legacy...

[Walt Starr]

7. I'm there with ya

This is the line in the sand:

__________________________________

This far and no further. I require a filibuster, otherwise, there's no longer any appreciable difference between the two parties.

[GR]

8. The Key Is Not The Hearings But The Vote After The Hearings...

If democrats stand up for Roe and against the Imperial Presidency of George W. Bush, there is still hope...I think it won't be until 2009 when we decide that the democrat party has outlived its usefulness and a new party is necessary...

I'm hopeful that 2006 will bring democratic control of one or both houses...

[havocmom]

9. Hey, join us making noise about Alito: Liar or bigot

Get the level up to the point MSM cannot ignore. This shit about being too tough on Alito in the hearing and 'death of the Democratic Party' is GOP spin and wishful thinking!

Either Alito LIED in the 80s about belonging to CAP to advance his career OR he was a member of CAP and the GOP scrubbed the files.

Get that message out. The spinners are trying real hard to get people to focus on manners instead of the substance. CNN & MSNBC both have polls up suggesting DEMS are not being nice in the hearings instead of the discrepancies in Alito's past and present claims about CAP membership!

Work to get the focus back where it belongs. Miss Manners can wait until AFTER we defend the SCOTUS from total neocon annihilation! And we don't get in a snit and give up 'neither ;)

[okieinpain]

11. what are they suppose to do.

[Tesha]

20. Fillibuster. Make noise. Vote against.

Fillbuster the bastard.

Hold huge all-Democrat pep rallies on the steps of the Capitol.

Sit in!

Suppress the quorum.

Appear on TV.

You know, act like an *ACTUAL OPPOSITION PARTY*.

But watch and see, "after long and heart-wrenching consideration",
at least a handful of faithless Democrats will vote to confirm this
bastard.

Tesha

[gratuitous]

13. Hmmm

Do you base your decision on who won, say, a basketball game based on the highlights on Sports Center? Case in point from last night was the Lakers-Blazers game. The first several highlights all featured Kobe Bryant, who's been on a tear lately. He was shown dunking, making a long shot and flipping a ball into the basket backwards over his head (no lie, it was a great shit shot). From the looks of things, and from the antecedents to the game, it would have appeared that the Lakers cruised to another easy victory over a hapless Blazer team that had lost six games in a row, the last one a 29-point blowout at home to the Miami Heat.

But no, Portland won the game and they did it quite handily. They also stopped Bryant's string of 45 point games, and ended their losing streak. It's dangerous to decide that an issue is over based solely on what the media choose to show. Another case in point is the John Bolton ambassadorship to the UN. That, too, was a slam dunk confirmation in every report on every station and in every newspaper. Until it wasn't, and Chimpy had to appoint Bolton during a weekend recess. Bolton doesn't have a shred of credibility with the UN.

The Alito nomination has so far been a Punch-and-Judy show with the only witness so far being a well-coached nominee. Nobody else has testified yet, and nobody else has entered the first word of evidence other than Scammin' Sammy. Ray Lewis looks really tough and intimidating during the pre-game introductions, but his Baltimore Ravens still lose as many games as they win.

To this point, Alito has offered about four different explanations for his membership in CAP. Kennedy successfully got Specter to request some of CAP's records from the founder of the organization. Specter was highly resistant to Kennedy's demand, but finally acquiesced, at least in party. More records are out there, and the record of the nomination isn't complete until all the records, not just the ones that "exonerate" Alito are in there. Alito has also refused to state that he thinks Roe v. Wade is a "settled" precedent. If the nomination gets out of committee (and it's important to remember that we're still just at the committee stage), that will be a very thoroughly discussed topic on the Senate floor. Joe Lieberman has, by some reports, acknowledged that a Democratic filibuster is still on the table. As one of the 14 compromisers, his statement that a filibuster remains an arrow in the Democrats' quiver carries substantial weight.

If the Democratic party is dead, it will be because we've quit fighting. I don't plan to do that. If you're done with all this, then please get out of my way. You're interfering with my ability to get a clear shot. Thanks.

[Atman]

14. Points well taken, but the buzzer is about to go off...

...and we're more than one court-length miracle shot away. We're getting our asses kicked, and this is the playoffs. Scalito will be the rubber stamp for everything Bush wants. Then its game over.

[rockymountaindem]

24. Great post.

I'll never leave the Democrats, but right now I'm feeling pretty down (even if it is only because of all the carping about what might happen on DU). Thanks for the pick-me-up.

[oasis]

33. Excellent post. Another Blazer team beat a star studded 76er squad

to win the NBA Championship back in the late 70's. The Bill Walton led Blazers feel behind 0-2, but teamwork pulled them through to a miraculous finish in the best-of-seven series.

We Democrats have the talent to win and can achieve victory if we stick together as a team.

[kurth]

15. Yep. Thank you, Asshole Ralph Nader.

And Thank you, Mr. Procrastinator John Kerry.

[Tesha]

21. Actually, Nader warned you about just this sort of posturing by Democrats.

(And no, I didn't vote for Ralph either time. But when he
talked about how similar the two corporate parties were, he
was a lot more correct than people around here like to give him
credit for.)

Tesha

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Nope. Just "politics as usual". The system is corrupt.

What we really have is two wings of the same corporate party doing the same old waltz and keeping the sham democracy as an illusion.

[rockymountaindem]

25. May I ask what you hope to achieve with an attitude like that?

Why don't you just quit?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. I hope to see the system overthrown and replaced with a democracy.

How about you?

[rockymountaindem]

27. How do you intend to overthrow the system?

I just want to see where the platitudes stop and the action begins. But I have to go out for an hour so we'll have to continue this when I get back.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. The "action" begins when the people get fed up with politicians.

And, the "one big party". Which, according to the polls, is well underway.

[rockymountaindem]

44. People are always fed up with the government

I mean, there hasn't been anything close to the turmoil that passed in the 60's, and even that didn't even come close to overthrowing the system. I don't think people will be manning the barricades anytime soon.

[hogwyld]

22. If the Dems don't make this their Stalingrad

and pull out every stop to deny Scalito the chair, I am seriously considering bolting for the Greens. If not here, where? If not now, when?

[WI_DEM]

31. No

like all the "Bush are toast" posts. There are more than 2 people in Washington standing up for people. Probably 80% of the Senators will vote against Alito. We have a strong team in Dean-Reid-Pelosi. We have a party which, unlike the Republican party, has more than a single voice. But many different elements. Many I don't agree with, but by and large most Democrats will vote against Alito.

[Kurovski]

32. And the man from Wisconsin gets my vote!

A good post and worth reading a few times to help calm the nerves.

[depakid]

42. At least for 2006 it is

No one likes cowardice- and that's all the Dems have shown as a party for at least the last 5 years- and maybe 10. That's why they keep losing elections. 6 in a row now- and if they don't make a stand here- it sets the tone for the rest of the year.

They might as well pack their bags and go home. They'll have have demoralized their base, failed to stand up for their principles (again) and basically given the public no reason to vote for them.

Sad, really. The Republicans are imploding and the Dems seem too pathetic to even try to capitalize on it. They have the power to stop Alito- they have all the issues on their side.

Does any think FOR A SECOND that if the roles were reversed, the Republicans wouldn't successfully filibuster this guy?

[applegrove]

45. Yes - we should all give up because the President has power in

all areas of governance. And he is at the low forties in the polls. And an election is around the corner as scandals bubble over.

:sarcasm:

[DanCa]

48. It's a cleansing the posers will loose thier seats.

There will still be those that whine about leaving party but I wonder if they truly ever voted for senator Kerry.