So it is OK to abort females - by the millions

[leftyladyfrommo]

And this is what I am hoping will change if the countries in the world can be educated.

It is the norm in many countries to simply abort female fetuses in favor of males. Because males are culturally more desirable.

I wish that in my lifetime we could see a world develop where females became valuable in every country in the world. Where they were not treated as slaves or possessions, where they were not killed just because some male family member felt like it. Where female children could go to school and chose their futures.

It seems like such a huge thing to wish for. But we could do it.

[woodsprite]

1. Our country believes in equal opportunity. Unaborted fetus'

grow into a never-ending supply of cannonfodder, and females make just as good cannonfodder as males. That's what * is getting at.

[Ally McLesbian]

2. The sad fact is

that this is a very common practice in China, where "one-child-only" policies and the Confucian need for a male heir to continue the family line has resulted in mass abortions for girls.

And in neighboring Korea, the only country to ever have been a Confucian theocracy, this is the ONLY abortion authorities will let you get away with.

(Another point: Confucianism is as much of a disaster for women as Christianity, with its emphasis on Eve's sin, ever was.)

As a result, both countries face a shortage of girls, and horny boys are sexually assaulting any girl they can find in droves. While other crimes are uncommon, sex crimes are extremely common.

Disgusting, since I see abortion rights as being about the rights of women, and aborting female fetuses goes against that. If we get a feminist government (in other words, kick out the Christian bastards like W and Robertson), we should even consider trade embargoes against the guilty foreign governments, and aid to feminist organizations in these countries.

[LibertyLover]

4. China

Either abortions or female infants being abandoned at or shortly after birth. My daughter was found abandoned in a doorway in a small city in Hubei province aged 1 day. Every time I look at my happy, healthy giggling 3 year old toddler and think of what could have happened I could cry. The orphanage officials in Wuzhu know women from the country use that particular area to abandon their unwanted children, mostly female, although occasionally a physically or developmentally disabled boy, that they check it regularly.

[Ally McLesbian]

11. One thing I heard about China...

3 years ago I was visiting Beijing. As I was making my way toward downtown from the airport, my guide told me that the official population of China is 1.2 billion, but the real population is more like 1.8 billion, because of the "one child only" law. The undocumented population has to live much like the illegal immigrants in the US - they have no identity, period.

To think about it - 600 million undocumented people, that's more than twice the population of the US, and fully 1/10 of the world population!

And I'd presume that a disproportionate number of the undocumented Chinese population is female, because if you want to continue your family line, you want to register a son, as opposed to a daughter, with the government census rolls.

Officially recognized ethnic minorities (55 or so of them total, including Han Chinese who are Muslims) can legally have two children per family, btw.

[CornField]

17. A question about China

What happens to multiple births? (twins, triplets, etc.)

[Gormy Cuss]

18. I have a friend who adopted twins from China.

Two girls, naturally. I'm betting that multiples are allowed under the one child rule because they are the product of one pregnancy, but I don't know.

[LibertyLover]

22. Twins

I honestly don't know what happens to multiples. I suspect it differs from family to family and province to province. I've heard of a number of people who have adopted twins. I've also heard of at least one case where an adopting family went to get their daughter and found out that she had a twin they had not been informed about. They begged, pleaded and paid and got the twin. So, sometimes both children are abandoned. In other instances it has been posited that one girl of a multiple birth will be kept, especially if there is a son already in the family, while the other one, probably the weaker of the two, will be abandoned. The one child policy is being enforced in cities, where you probably see more sex-selected abortions. In the countryside, the rule is somewhat more relaxed. Generally speaking, if the first child is a boy the family stops having children. If the first child is a girl, the family generally tries for a second child. If that one is a boy, they stop having children. However, if the 2nd child is another girl, or a boy with readily apparent physical and/or mental challenges, that 2nd child is abandoned, and the family tries again. Some districts are more dogmatic than others and require that a family wanting a second child apply and pay for permission so that the 2nd child is legal, can be registered for school, identity papers and citizenship, etc. Other districts don't bother with permission, but a 2nd or in rare instances a 3rd child is essentially an illegal - they can't get into school, can't get an ID, can't get proof of citizenship. I saw a National Geographic program last year where a woman in a small town in rural China was interviewed. She had had a son but wanted a second child. The authorities allowed her to, in effect, purchase a license to do so. Her husband was uninterested in the 2nd child, a girl, as were the members of his family. They interviewed him and he said that she ran her own restaurant and had paid for the license on her own and it was none of his business. At one point the little girl, who looked so much like my daughter did at the same age, toddled over to her father. He pushed her away and walked out, leaving her crying on the floor. In one book on adoptions from China that I've read, it is suggested that you prepare your child for the concept that she may have at least one elder sister and one younger brother in China, if not more elder and younger sisters who were also abandoned.

[CornField]

3. I agree

Through history we can watch the pendulum swing back and forth. Many years ago, religious beliefs were such that women were the most valued members of society. As religions changed and society changed along with them, women became less and less of value. With each swing, we hope that the pendulum will come a little closer to landing and being still in the middle -- the place of equality.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. The latest article I saw was about India

Millions of female fetuses have been aborted there. And they have all kinds of other problems as well. Women simply have no right to live. They are at the mercy of the men and the families of the men. And a lot of those women simply end up dead - just so that they won't be in the way any longer.

[Ally McLesbian]

7. And isn't India...

... a country and culture (actually, a hodge-podge of many cultures) that we progressives tend to revere as being mystical and compassionate?

The truth though is less than rosy, thanks to honor killings, caste system, and many other evils that were either homegrown or British-introduced.

[leftyladyfrommo]

8. Well, they don't kill cows

But I don't think that thinking applies to women.

Don't like your wife - just throw acid all over her. That seems to be one of the favorites right now.

[bleedingheart]

9. I bet you it happens here pretty frequently as well...

I am quite sure that somewhere there are parents with a girl or two who want a son so bad that the mother will endure abortion after abortion in order to get the son...

When I was born my father was elated...when my brother was born he personally thanked my mother for a son...he loved me very much but as my mother said his culture believed that sons were more desirable because they would carry on the family name....

[Ally McLesbian]

12. Pretty common in Asian families

Actually, the Christian teachings against abortion seem to be saving many girls in the more Christian ethnicities like the Koreans and the Filipinos.

Boys still reign supreme though... :(

[Ally McLesbian]

6. The more I study old religions

... especially those that revered the Earth as the nurturing Mother Goddess (which it is in a way), the more I agree with their teachings. For example, they told you to truly respect the environment, instead of destroying it to hasten the Rapture, as the Dominionist Christians would like you to believe.

Of course, those religions also valued women more, because of the ability to give birth and start a new life.

[leftyladyfrommo]

10. Its easy to glamorize old religions.

In truth, people have been pretty barbaric for about a million years. It just takes different forms.

You would think we could figure out a way to get beyond it.

[Cleita]

13. It seems that this practice is actually working in favor of the

females not aborted. The shortage of women has allowed the women in these cultures to be picky about whom they will marry, because they have a wider choice of desirable mates.

I don't like the practice myself, but this has been an unexpected result.

[CornField]

15. I suppose if you consider molestation and rape a benefit. nt

[DFWdem]

14. The law of unintended consequences at work

If one believes a woman has a right to have an abortion at any time for any reason, no questions asked, then you can't complain when babies are aborted on a whim.

[Cleita]

16. I don't think it's the women who make these choices as much

as it is their husbands, who want sons. A couple of centuries ago, the unwanted girl child was either exposed to die or sold into slavery.

[CornField]

20. It is allowable and right, however, to fight against circumstances which

limit a woman's ability to make a choice for herself. That's what this is really about. Would these same women choose to abort if the circumstances (laws/policies) were different?

It is no more appropriate to force a woman to abort than it is to refuse her the choice to abort.

[SoCalDem]

19. Shortsighted to be sure..

I guess if a country wants war and needs a steady supply of males it's a good thing to do...

One thing they might want to think about.. Somewhere around puberty, all those males might want some female companionship..What happens then?? Most backward societies cringe at the thought of homosexuality...too many males, not enough females can lead to all kinds of frustrated, angry young guys...can you say "fertile breeding ground for terrorism"?

Mother Nature somehow managed to maintain a decent balance.. shame on humans for trying to get creative:(

[Neil Lisst]

21. Excuse me if I worry about women in the US and their choices first

Worrying about such matters in countries half way around the world is, IMO, a complete waste of time. If you want to worry about policies in India and China, that one is the least of our worries.

Besides, there IS a rational basis for their preference, beyond the cultural preference. Women have babies, and the last time I checked, neither country needs a lot of new babies. Limit the number of women, and you limit the number of babies.

If you want to talk about throwing born girls to the alligators, I'm all for talking about that, but an abortion is just an abortion, and I'm fine with the mother making that decision.

[hopeisaplace]

23. NO!! It takes a REAL MAN TO MAKE A GIRL!

..I have 4 sons :)