I'm not counting ANY chickens until, or if, they hatch (Rove indictment)

[bluestateguy]

We've been led down these roads before in the past, and they result in endless chatter blogging and heavy breathing and then.....? Nothing. I don't have time to reprise all of the examples from the past six years, but any objective person will know what I am talking about.

All of this premature celebrating, making plans for champagne, etc. if/when Rove is indicted will be very embarrassing to us if Rove is cleared. I'm not talking about the sneering from the Freepers and that Site That Shall Not Be Named. Never mind them. I'm talking about fair minded, moderate people and even other liberals, with whom we need to attract support.

Truthout has really put themselves out on a limb here, and if they got it right they can claim a major scoop and a major accomplishment to stick it in the face of the MSM. But if they are wrong, they will have to take responsibility for it, and their credibility will be badly damaged. I like Truthout, I want to see it succeed.

[IndyOp]

1. We often go down these roads, but I feel better going when there are

multiple, independent, confirmed sources as there are in this case. At least, according to Jason, and Will, and Larry Johnson (who says Joe Wilson says so too).

If you feel more comfortable waiting - that is cool. :hippie:

:kick:

[Oceansaway]

2. its not been refuted yet....

so i pretty much believe its true....

i hate hatching my counts before they chicken !

[Botany]

3. Cheep Cheep Cheep

[kstewart33]

4. Well said.

The credibility of Truthout is entirely on the line here. They have alot to gain but also a great deal to lose. I am deeply skeptical of JL's stories, but let's hope that Jason and Will are right on this one.

[petersjo02]

5. I have to wonder if this National Guard/immigration speech

stuff is all a distraction because of Rove's impending indictment. There is no particular new urgent situation at the border impelling this move on Bush's part. I suppose low poll numbers play some role, but I question if his speech (few will watch, I suspect) and deploying an already streched thin Guard is going to bolster his numbers much, although "some say" those actions will. Time will tell. A year ago Bush defunded and killed a plan that was to immediately add 970 more border patrol agents(per KOS), so why the urgency now?

[insane_cratic_gal]

6. self delete, It's late and I'm cranky

[applegrove]

7. Nope. They checked their sources. If their sources lied they will

be outed. You can only report things in a humanily possible way. That means sources that confirm each other. If they all lied - that is the story. Not Truthout. Perhaps the sources lied. Perhaps the sources were given faulty information pureposely (because Leopold seems to have used them before). Perhaps the whole story is true.

[Hekate]

8. You mean we shouldn't count our chickenhawks before they're catched?

;-)
I know, I know, there was a great hullabaloo -- threads over 400 posts long. I'm not breaking out the bubbly yet, but would it be okay if I made a small libation of wine for the outcome?

Hekate

[KharmaTrain]

9. DU's Suffering From It's Own Success

When I first popped on here I think membership was around 10,000 or so...it was in late 2002...during the final days of that frustrating election. This place was a safe haven from the freeper-laden boards on AOL and Yahoo and a place where I felt my thoughts, talents, involvement and money would mean something. It has and still does, but I've seen a lot of changes as this place has grown.

As in any community, in the beginning you get people of common interests and I sensed that many here at that time were just glad to run into another sane voice on the information superhighway. As the membership grew, so did the diversity of the personalities. More and more people meant the greater possibility of ego and other clashes and sure enough they come fast and furious here these days. This "swiftboating" (what a detestable term) is more indicative of the egos and passions of the current active participants here than it does about the Rove indictment...or dare I say about Truthout.

It's so easy to get carried away on a keyboard...saying things or getting all worked up over verbage that you'd be far more temperate in saying or dealing with in person. The level playing field and relative annonymity of this place makes is its greatest strength, but in times like this can be it's biggest deterant.

Here's hoping this latest tempest in the DU Tea Pot simmers down and we all have a very merry Fitzmas.

Cheers and Peace...

[Mikimouse]

10. Well stated...I suspect that we both joined for the same reason...

as we are from the same time frame. Good to see another early bird.:toast:

[SoCalDem]

11. Why you little whippersnappers.. (joined DU 6-01)

I don't think we even had 2K then :)

I remember how excited we got at the even numbers 100, 200, 300 etc..and had pools to see when we would hit 5k members :)

Boy how things have changed :) :hi:

I too will patiently await justice for Rover.. When I see it on CNN, I will believe it :)

[texasleo]

13. OG's for life

:-)

[Mikimouse]

20. I lurked, reading for a long time, not sure if what I had to say...

was relevant.:hi:

[Justice Is Comin]

12. Uhm here is what my tea leaves are telling me.

I don't think there is a "sealed" indictment. My best guess is that it's certain but will terminate in the grand jury room as the Libby indictment did.

There will likely be an advance media alert advisory to the media from Fitzgerald to position their reporters when its going down. It would appear on his website.

Corallo has NOTHING to lose to lie like a rug for Rove. Who is going to care, or rise or fall on his credibility? It's just holding off the dogs temporarily like a good slave would.

Leopold would not get that far out on the limb just to be smeared in the blogosphere unmercifully. You go that far out on the limb because that's where the fruit is.

[Cooley Hurd]

14. Conventional wisdom (from the corporate media) is that indictment is...

...an inevitability. David Shuster (NBC) comes immediately to mind.


I'd put money on the frog march happening by Friday, PM...

[symbolman]

15. Many in the media have been saying that for months

and since Leopold has changed his times for Target Letters and Indictments constantly I guess that means that the time doesn't seem to matter, so how does that translate into a "scoop" for Leopold?

Doesn't anyone think that the MSM wants the SCOOP of the decade? Don't you think that there are roving packs of cameras and reporters following Fitz and Luskin, parking outside of the offices, offering bribes, whatever? Hundreds of them, and you think ONE GUY, someone who's be wrong more often than right, who's been fired from many online media or publications for Plagiarism, refusing to give up sources to his own editor, telling the editor he called a source and got tons of information, then when Salon asked for his phone records said he couldn't get them (only soon after they find out they phone records were sitting on a desk in his house), on the phone records the call was less than a minute long?

He once claimed after pilfering SEVEN paragraphs from another magazine that HE had wrote the article for that other publication originally so it was HIS writings, THEN when they call that other publication, they tell them that NO he did NOT write those very words, that they checked their system and there was no article by him with those 7 paragraphs - then he claimed that they'd been deleted, the originating publication said that was complete bullshit, they have backup records of every article and it was NOT written by him or deleted at all.

He once was given secret information by a man on financial dealings, asked to keep it secret, then LEAKED that info to TWO other publications so that once THEY wrote about it he could use it. THe man who's secret he revealed could have gone to JAIL for what he leaked in private to him.

A person here from the DU gave him info in secret, they were in the military, and he not only outed them, but gave them the wrong rank, misquoted them, and they were in danger of getting thrown out of the military, and have had to spend countless hours contacting web sites to get the information removed as Leopold told them he wasn't going to do it.

And he going to OUT his sources if the story is WRONG? This is to be admired? If they were lefties everyone would scream that a reporter shouldn't OUT their sources, but protect them, unless a crime had been committed, as in the case of Judith Miller.

OUT a bunch of Right Wingers who probably LIED to him? Who the hell would TRUST 8 REPUBLICANS to USE as sources in the first place? So two things happen when he "outs" them.. one, they get a nice promotion for making the whole web journalistic scene a bunch of nutcase losers, and two, who the hell will ever TALK to this guy again about anything as a source?

THREE? It's cowardly, and it will be used as an EXCUSE. He's usually blamed EVERYONE ELSE when he's wrong, and in fact has even BLAMED TruthOut at one point..

Do a little research, use your mind, pretend YOU are a reporter and see who you are dealing with, his history is frightening, criminal (all admitted to by Truthout and Raw Story, but they get MAD when someone else talks about it, tho they admit it's TRUE)..

If Fitzgerald ran his case like Leopold runs his stories and his mouth then Rove would be sitting on a beach somewhere surrounded by cheap women and drinking Mai Tais all day on our Tax dollars, while installing more scumbags in our govt.

I do NOT trust him, and I never will. A leopard doesn't change it's spots. Wanting Rove to be jailed is one thing, but living in Willy Wonka Land or walking around with fingers in ears screaming LALALALALALA to ignore the past, the facts is just irrational.

Rove will be indicted, I have no doubt, I predicted it two years ago, based on my own research, but no one will ever convince me that just because he gets indicted perhaps This particular week that Leopold got a "scoop".

[Harper_is_Bush]

16. Why do you hate Leopold, truthout, and by association

Will Pitt?

What's with the hateination?

[symbolman]

17. I don't hate anyone

I want answers and I don't accept bullshit..

Hey, if you want to see a bunch of people that LOVE Leopold and TO now go to this link..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1191164

A whole room full of heavy hitters on the left, Lawyers and Hillary Clinton herself all HUMILIATED by an Internet RUMOR.

Just wait until the right wing gets ahold of this footage for the election cycle..

"Do you really want people running National Security, protecting us from terrorists who can't tell the difference between a RUMOR and a FACT?"

Hell, I could write the commercial for them, I know these assholes like the back of my hand - and I've made commercials they couldn't argue with, kicked their asses with my ARMY OF ONE..

Check out the link.. looks like they'll be calling TO and Leopold any day now to CONGRATULATE them for making them all look like IDIOTS..

do I hate people.. please..

[Harper_is_Bush]

18. Sorry, should have placed a sarcasm smile in my post.

It was a reference to the accusers in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1189996

I realize you don't hate anyone, but I suspct your post is another one of those that would be called an "assault" on Leopold/truthout/WPitt.

[symbolman]

19. I know

I've been following your very reasonable posts and enjoying your sanity, you are much better than I am at letting people know where boundries are.. being from an Irish family I just tell them they're full of shit, and that has no educational value in the least.. :)

Thanks for being like John the Baptist here, a lone voice crying in the wilderness, but one that seems to make a LOT of sense..

Okay I DO hate one person, but that's my ex wife and she's not here so I'm really a happy guy for that fact alone :)