At church yesterday....

[vi5]

So for Mother's day, my wife and I (both atheists) surprised my mom and met her at church yesterday with my daughter. I knew it would mean something to her since she is a devout catholic and even though she understands mine and my wife's position, it makes her somewhat sad (even though we let my daughter attend church with her and make every effort not to say anything negative about my parent's religion/beliefs). So we got dressed up and surprised her out in front of the church and all walked in together.

Throughout the mass I was fine, and simply had my usual thoughts that I had been having since I was a kid ("I can't believe we have to say the same thing every single week......I can't believe they have us little kids standing here and staring at a giant depiction of a tortorous execution....boy that priest can ramble.....etc.) but since the main point of being there was for my mom I smiled and held hands and said the prayers and all that jazz.

Well at the end with the closing remarks the priest reminded everyone that they would be having a copy of the petition that the diocese wanted everyone to sign, to send to washington, urging congress to pass legislation keeping marriage the way it was intended to be, between a man and a woman.

So even though hearing this made me cringe, and inside made me upset that my daughter had to hear stuff like that, I kept it inside again due to it being mother's day.

Of course my mother (who is more or less a liberal) sighed and shook her head and then afterwards at my brothers she started ranting and raving and complaining about what the priest had said. I tried to be as diplomatic as possible and didn't point out that nobody forces her to attend a church that believes all of these things that she does not believe, and nobody forces her to put money into the basket to support these things week after week, and that nobody prevents her from speaking out or perhaps let her dissatisfaction known either through letter writing or more involvement in other aspects of the church. Instead I simply said "You know, there is a United Church of Christ in the next town over. I hear they have very nice services."

[Mythsaje]

1. You're a stronger person than I...

I cannot bear to step foot in a church of any stripe, nor play along by singing hymns or acting like I believe prayer has any function other than to deceive the mind. Not anymore.

I'm just lucky in that church plays no part in the lives of anyone I know these days. I associate with more pagans than anyone else, socially, and while I lend their beliefs no more credence than I do those of Christians, they also don't expect me to act like I do.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. I'm curious

and I hope you don't mind answering my question. You say prayer is nothing more than a deception of the mind, and then say you hang out with pagans. The pagans I know pray. Were you talking about all kinds of prayer or merely church prayer? Or do your pagan friends not do ceremony and prayer?

Thank you in advance for your answer.

[Mythsaje]

10. Oh, they do their thing...

My wife's pagan.

I'm just not a believer. Not anymore. I've pretty much come to the conclusion over the past several years that any attempt to explain the inexplicable is more or less futile. But my pagan friends don't expect me to believe what they believe, which makes them a bit different than many Christians.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. Hey, I'm with you on that

Most mystics I know are the live and let live type-your path is your path, and who am I to change it?

Might interest you to know that it is against my Sufi teachings to try and convert anyone to my path.

Added: Say hi to your wife!

[Midlodemocrat]

2. If she is a devout Catholic, she will be a devout Catholic

until the day she dies. I know this because I am one. I am trying very hard to fight against all this from the inside, admittedly not making huge inroads, but my priest is very liberal.

My mom was a devout Catholic and she didn't believe everything the Church said. She would say "Not God's law, Man's law".

The ritualistic part of Catholicism is important to a lot of Catholics, like me.

[redwitch]

16. Not sure how devout I am

since I don't subscribe to many of the core teachings. I believe in birth control, choice, that priests should be allowed to marry, that gay people should have every opportunity heteros have, that women should be saying mass, you name it, the Pope says nope, I say why not? But I feel such a powerful connection to my Church. And my priest is pro choice- which totally blew my mind when he told me. If he can hang in there and work for change AND my good friend can (she is lesbian and her son an altar boy), I can hang in there too. If I had the experience of the OP, it would break my heart.

[insane_cratic_gal]

3. Church and State

It ought to be reported

[Duer 157099]

5. Yep. Don't they lose their tax-exempt status if caught doing this?

I'd report them in a heartbeat

[TankLV]

19. I don't support the THEME of their petition at all, but would you have the

same feelings during the civil rights struggle where the black churches, and many other white churches, did the same thing - to organize POLITICAL protests at their churches?

Anybody who posts/visits reqularly know my strong negative attitudes towards the catholic church.

Just curious.

I don't know MY answer, either - still struggling with that.

[theHandpuppet]

20. I see it this way, TankLV

When churches stand up for the poor, the disenfranchised, the persecuted... when they take a stand against injustice, hatred and bigotry... when they stand for peace and not bloodshed... then they are taking a stand for the teachings of Jesus Christ. Such was the case of those churches which hid and aided runaway slaves. Such was the case of churches which were so crucial to the civil rights movement.

CONVERSELY....

When churches use their power to persecute, to foster hatred and discrimination of their fellows... when their pulpits become the bully pulpits of intolerance... when they beat the drums of war and turn their backs to peace -- then I say to them (in the words of JC) "I know ye not".

There *is* a difference, TankLV. One path follows that of the ravening wolves. The other follows in the footsteps of Christ.

[sutz12]

12. I'm not sure it applies to issues...just to candidates or parties.

It might be legal to petition on a specific issue.

[Patiod]

4. I'll go on Christmas or Easter, but never on Mother's Day

They always obsess on abortion at my parents' church on Mother's Day. It makes her happy if I come over in time for Mass on Christmas and Easter, but I draw the line at the inevitable on Mother's Day.

[SacredCow]

8. How inappropriate...

I attended a friend's wedding some years ago, and the priest (who was a last-minute replacement for another that became ill) gave some sermon that essentially said that the bond of marriage was THE most important thing ever. To illustrate, he decreed that if my friend, his wife, and their future child were in a burning building and he could only save one of them, it would HAVE to be his wife. :wtf:

Needless to say, there was a bit of a revolt.

[Bill McBlueState]

14. interestingly,

If that child were still in the womb, they'd probably say to hell with the woman's life. But I guess once the kid is born, the woman is more important to save, because she can always make another one.

Christian morality at its finest.

[SacredCow]

17. No doubt....

The bottom line is that it was TOTALLY inappropriate for a wedding sermon. Even if they agreed with such an idiotic statement, I doubt that anybody wants to hear that kind of thing on their wedding day.

[politicat]

15. Maybe he meant bondage in marriage?

:evilgrin:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. That was very kind of you

to go to church, especially having to hear the intolerance. Perhaps there are other dissatisfied Catholics in her area with whom your mother could meet and commiserate.

[kaygore]

7. I thought that such political positions were against the law

Or does that only apply to candidates?

[gratuitous]

11. Depending on where she lives

Your mother might have a choice of Catholic churches to attend. She needn't be locked in with the intolerant crazies.

Of course, if she isn't all that devout about Catholocism anymore, your suggestion that she investigate a UCC church is pretty good.

Unsolicited comments about other stuff: Yes, churches and their congregants are completely free to comment on issues and send petitions about things that matter to them. For all the good it does, our congregation regularly sends postcards to congress along with petitions and advice about living wage laws, draconian drug laws, laws that make our calling tougher in terms of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and housing the homeless; you know, the usual liberal stuff. We also correspond with our elected officials on environmental matters, like not drilling in ANWR or not dumping our toxic waste in poor communities.

To the comment "why do we have to say the same thing every week," how often do you tell your spouse or your parents or your kids that you love them? I mean, isn't that just saying the same thing to them over and over? Don't you think they're bored with hearing it?

[wicket]

13. UCC member here

Your mom is welcome any time! :hug:

[lies and propaganda]

21. better person than me.

I could have done the exact same for mom right until those closing remarks. Thats when i get my sane familiy the fuck out of there.
It is sad that your daughter heard that, but she must hear shit like that all the time if she regularly attends church with her.