This whole emphasis on people learning English

[RB TexLa]

Does the government think the American people are too stupid to learn Spanish? Or is it really the mentality of dumbasses that think "'Mericans speak English," that is the policy of the government?

[pinto]

1. It bugs me as well. Most immigrants learn English. If not the

first generation, then the second. Lots of non English speaking immigrants from Europe had first generation members who were basically monolingual and their kids learned English at school...

It's a strawman issue.

[Poppyseedman]

11. It's an real issue.

Years ago immigrants took pride in the fact they learned English as soon as possible. They demanded it from their children. That is not the case today.

I can't tell you the number of people I have interviewed looking for a job that have been in this country for many years, long enough to learn the language, some as long as twenty years, but cannot communicate in english at all. I did one last week in Ft. Myers Fl. He had been in this country for 26 years.

I look latino and have been asked several times to conduct the job interview in Spanish. Since part of the job is to be able to talk to our customers in English, I refuse.

If they can't do a simple interview they can't handle a customer question.

[pinto]

14. Then they're not hirable. That seems a simple solution.

[NewJeffCT]

16. My great-grandmother came here from Italy around 1900

She passed away in 1975 or so... hardly spoke a word of English her entire life. She lived in a community that was almost entirely Italian-America or Sicilian-American, so had no need to learn it. Her children all spoke English well, and they spoke Italian. My mom, unfortunately, didn't learn Italian and only speaks English.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. A playing card of fascism.

No surprise he pulled it.

[Bluebear]

3. OK, Chimpolini......you start first, then get back to us. nt

[brook]

6. I second that.

Also: citizens of this country should not be allowed travel to any other nation unless they are fluent in that nation's language.

[rustydog]

4. It is reaching out to the bigoted christian right and their nazi

like followers.

If I remember right, historically, the 2nd generation immigrant learns English. They help mom and dad get by. their kids speak English and so on.

This is an issue to placate bigots plain and simple.

My grandfather was the 2nd generation immigrant. He spoke German and English. My father spoke english.

I can't stand bigots.

[Robbie Michaels]

5. He's a dumbass

I'm not afraid to say it. My grandparents did not speak English. My parents were fluent. The only Spanish I know is from the AP courses I took in high school. That's how immigrants usually assimilate.

[porphyrian]

7. Many Americans are too stupid to learn Spanish.

About a third, I'm guessing.

[MelliMel]

17. So...

We should all have to learn Spanish to accomodate immigrants? Why not Mandarin, Cantonese, Vietnamese, German, Russian, as well?

[porphyrian]

22. I didn't say that. You did.

I just said many Americans are that stupid. About a third.

[MelliMel]

23. And are some of the immigrants stupid as well?

Why is it, "Some Americans are too stupid (or apathetic) to learn Spanish" and not, "Some immigrants are too stupid (or too apathetic) to learn English ?

[porphyrian]

25. Why are some DU posters too stupid to understand the post...

...they reply to? Your continued attempts to add your meaning to what I've typed is a fascinating phenomenon, but I really don't understand your motivation.

[MelliMel]

27. I wanted to know why

you only target Americans. A discussion about immigrants needing to learn English - but you focus on "dumb" Americans?

[porphyrian]

29. I want to know why you want to believe I'm focusing on Americans.

I merely quoted the original poster, who was the one singling out Americans. I simply agreed. If I say I hate dill pickles, that doesn't mean I don't hate other kinds of pickles. You do speak English, right?

[MelliMel]

31. Yes, in addition to

Hebrew, Yiddish, and enough Russian and French to get by if I had to do so.

But a good working knowledge of English is how you get ahead in this country. It doesn't matter if you print every government form in 40 different languages; you need English to keep moving up.

[porphyrian]

32. I never contradicted anything you just said.

So what was the point you wanted to make in falsely accusing me of singling out American stupid people?

[MelliMel]

33. I went straight from your post.

Sorry, I didn't know you were quoting the OP.

[porphyrian]

36. It wasn't a quote so much as a response in kind.

But, since you apologized, I'll add that many people of all kinds are stupid.

[Fountain79]

24. I hate when people are smug...

The majority of people learn out of necessity. Europe has such a high rate of bilingualism because the countries are as close as states are here. It's no secret that you will find more people along the border speaking Spanish than elsewhere because it is necessary. For the record only about 9 percent of this country speaks a second language. I learned a second language mainly because I had the resources,(family, economic), to learn Spanish. Learning a second language is hard, but if you come here, you need to have/develop at least a working knowledge of our language which is English. To deny that is demeaning.

[porphyrian]

26. You and me both.

Some people like to jump into the middle of a conversation with a tangential rant about their personal pet peeve as if they are some kind of moral authority or something. The nerve.

[Fountain79]

28. I'm sorry I thought this was a discussion board..

I thought that meant people could weigh in on arguments already in progress, especially when those making the arguments make sweeping generalization without any kind of context to back it up. Do you care to address any of my points or are you just going to continue to make a fool of yourself?

[porphyrian]

30. Oh, it is. I just hate people who are smug about it. Like you said. - n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

35. By that same logic, wouldn't you say that some people are too stupid...

to learn English? Because they sure don't seem to want to do it do they? If we moved to Mexico, do you think they'd learn English to make us feel better? NO. Personally, I think that if you move to a country with a different language that they mainly speak, then you should learn that language. It's not that I'm too stupid to learn Spanish, it's just that I don't think I should have to learn it so that some ILLEGAL can feel more comfortable. :shrug:
Duckie

[porphyrian]

37. Yes, they become CEOs or the President.

I don't care what languages you learn or don't learn, or for who. I'm just agreeing with the OP that there are many stupid Americans. About a third.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

39. And I agree with that...

But the way you said it made you sound elitist and probably insulted a few DUers whne you said it. I know that I have a hard time learning a language. Doesn't make me stupid.
Duckie

[porphyrian]

40. People with a thing about being called stupid, maybe.

I don't have any personal issues with it, as I am fully aware of my own intelligence.

Also, I don't come across as elitist, I come across as an asshole. I don't consider myself better than anyone else. I am smarter than a bunch of people, certainly about a third of Americans at least, but intelligence is only a single trait for comparison. I'm outranked in most of them, even in intelligence. Smarter isn't necessarily better, in fact it's really fucking depressing to know shit most people are blissfully unaware of. But, I don't have a problem calling stupid people stupid. Asshole, see?

[deadparrot]

8. While I think all Americans should study another language in school...

As long as such classes are free and readily accessible, I don't think it's out of line to ask someone to learn the dominant language of the country which he or she aspires to join.

If I were going to move to France, Germany, or Japan, I would most definitely make an effort to learn the language. It's not racism; it's for the safety of the immigrant as much as anything, in my mind.

[magellan]

10. Agreed, it's part of assimilation

My best friend's parents came from Mexico. Her whole family in the US is now bilingual. I think it's great to hang onto the original language, but it's critical to learn the language of one's new home as well.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. Fuckface can't speak English

I mean, everybody knows that.

So, what's the point, Fuckface?

Hmmmmm?

[Odin2005]

12. People should definitely learn Spanish

I also think people should learn Chinese and Hindi as well, that has nothing to to with immigrants.

Immigrants should learn the main language of the country they are moving to, be it the US, UK, Germany, etc. I'm sick of people thinking Latinos should get a free pass just to look "PC" and "multicultural" when our ancestors had no such privilege.

[ForrestGump]

15. If we all learn Hindi,

maybe we can get jobs in customer-service call centers...

:P

(in New Delhi)

[enlightenment]

13. May I ask a question, hopefully without being flamed to a cinder?

I teach college history, in Las Vegas, NV.

I studied Latin, Ancient Greek, and French in school -- mostly for reading. I can speak Spanish poorly, have a memory of Japanese from living there as a child, and can muddle through most of the Romance languages because of the Latin -- better reading then speaking and hearing.

My classrooms are the UN -- this semester alone I have students whose parents came from Central and South America, including but not limited to Mexico; students who have themselves come from those areas; students who have come from Thailand, Japan, China, Korea, and the Philippines; one student from Ethiopia, one from Russia, and two from Italy.

ALL of my "immigrant" students find English an extremely daunting language (and it is -- we all know that). Some have fairly good comprehension when listening, while others have a big problem understanding the spoken word. ALL have poor to extremely poor writing skills (in English).

By comparison, my "native" English speaking students have good to very good listening comprehension and very good to abysmally poor writing skills (in English).

Writing can be corrected -- the ability to comprehend a lecture is a much bigger problem, particularly when I do not know they're not getting it (until they try to write about a topic or take a test). I'm pretty good at interpreting the "I'm not getting it" look, but I can't catch every one -- and if I have to reiterate every single point in ever-more simplistic language or any of a zillion analogies I'll never finish a lecture. I know. I've tried.

In my class of forty, seventeen fall into the category of "immigrant." I include those students who are second generation but have managed to get to college level without developing a strong grasp of English. Nine of the seventeen students speak languages other than English or Spanish. Eight speak Spanish. There are two other students who are second generation and speak and understand English fluently -- I include them in the "native" speaking set.

Which language should I give my lecture in? Seriously. Whom do I choose? And if I try to learn all those languages -- to be fair to all by appreciating the multi-national nature of my classroom -- how much history should I give up trying to teach? Because I sure won't have time (twice a week 1 hour and 20 minutes each time) to get to much after I've repeated my lecture in two/three/five/ten languages.

I'm not trying to be snotty -- but there seems to be a gap between the pie-in-the-sky "everybody should speak Spanish" and the reality of what is actually needed.

[pinto]

18. Geez. Tough one. I'd present the class in English and encourage ESL

classes for those that can't follow it. Actually, ESL ought to be a concurrent requirement for college matriculation...you shouldn't have to accommodate a "UN" of languages, as you say. Colleges routinely have math assessment tests for placement in appropriate courses. English comprehension would seem a positive support for a successful college experience.

[enlightenment]

21. They do have assessments at entry --

but, as Chinua Achebe so aptly said, "things fall apart."

ESL concentrates primarily on the written word, unfortunately, and because higher ed is being taken over by the business model drones the focus is shifting to profit instead of quality of education -- in large part, I don't think the colleges much care.

Those of us who choose to teach because we love our fields (be it history or literature or math - whatever) muddle through, and do our best to drag our students along with us!

Thanks for responding.

[pinto]

42. Hang in there.

:hi:

[enlightenment]

43. Always!

You, also!!

:P

[NewJeffCT]

19. I honestly thought...

I honestly thought Bush was going to propose making English the official language...

[Jed Dilligan]

20. I'll report

all the half-literate ill-spoken republican dumbasses I come across to the immigration authorities.

[Lexingtonian]

34. I have no firm view on that issue

but what bothers me is the other pole of the argument: "conservatives" are claiming an entitlement to be monolingual.

I can't tell where the arrogance ends and the stupidity begins on that one.

[Clarkie1]

38. I believe English should be our official language.

I also believe that all children in the U.S. should be bilingual. Children in K-12 should be educated in English as well as another language, such as Spanish.

We need to put more resouces into teaching English to legal immigrants, and require real competency in the English language in order to become a citizen.

[RB TexLa]

41. I don't see why the two most prevalent languages would not both have

status. Not "official languages" I do not think we should have a official language. But there is no reason to not have street signs in both languages where it deemed needed. We do it in Chinatowns all over the country.

Spanish is the language of our hemisphere, it's pretty arrogant of us to ignore that.