Thousands of Guard troops on the border, or the start of martial law?

[FogerRox]

I mean really........ US Army troops acting as police....... in the US.....

Makes me real effin comfy. NOT.

First its border security, then what next? This action blurs the line, using US Army troops is just wrong, and unlawful. Because we know where this will lead.



Edited to take out 30k troops, & insert thousands..........

[MadMaddie]

1. The question is will the guard create a backlash against this?

[joemurphy]

2. Where'd you get 30K? More like 5 or 6K

[FogerRox]

3. %k--- whatever... it sets a precident, that leads us to get used to having

US troops operating domestically.

[MercutioATC]

4. "Sets a precedent"??? Hardly.

It's just one of many examples, but does Kent State ring a bell?

[libnnc]

5. dude...

You gave me a bad chill...:scared:

[FreakinDJ]

7. Or a dose of reality

an incident would give Bush a mandate in Freeper logic

[FogerRox]

11. Freeper logic, yes...... good point

[MercutioATC]

10. Sorry...I really didn't mean it that way.

The Guard is supposedly going to be providing logistical support and training for the 10,000 border guards Bush refused to fund a few years ago now that he's decided to hire them after all. There's no indication that they'll be doing any "policing" at all...much less any policing having to do with U.S. citizens.

I was just trying to douse another little "uninformed paranoia flame". I think the frantic hype surrounding these issues bothers me more than the issues themselves any more...

:)

[FogerRox]

8. YEs exactly, Kent State, but worse

If we get used to troops on the boder, whos to say we wont be asked to accept troops in mnore situations.

[MercutioATC]

12. Ummm, because that hasn't happened in the 36 years since Kent State...

I guess my points are these:

1) Using Guard units domestically is rare but not unheard of. Using them to train border patrol agents is not anywhere NEAR the "precedent" you claim.

2) We used Guard units at Kent State in 1970. Have you seen an increasing trend of us using Guard units since then?

I really don't see how you're supporting your claims.

[susanna]

18. I really don't see how you dismiss any claims at all.

Posse Comitatus is quite well known as an act, and it seems to apply here somewhat, IMHO. Of course you might be smarter than I, so feel free to explain why this is all a-okay with you. I'm interested in your reasoning.

on edit: subject line malfunction.

[MercutioATC]

19. Posse Comitatus probably won't be an issue here.

Bush will probably engineer things so the states are in control of the Guard units (Posse Comitatus wouldn't apply, then).

As far as my replies to RogerFox, it's my opinion that he's buying into the hype. There's no evidence that 1) this would set any precedent or 2) that it would lead to increased use of Guard units for domestic "policing".

I didn't state a personal opinion whether it was "OK" or not, I just don't think the hype is accurate or helpful.

[susanna]

23. Well, then...

...we're on the same page to a point. If you think that using National Guard troops as ersatz law enforcement is AOK, who am I, a citizen of some knowledge of history, to disagree?

You're right in one regard: states have historically been in control of the National Guard. Of course, with our latest "war", the National Guard seems now to be under control of what amounts to a Federal dictate. In my not-so-humble opinion, there's an argument right there: if the National Guard is TRULY under state control, the Executive Branch should free them forthwith, all of them, to handle their necessary stateside duties.

Question for you: how soon you think that will happen?

[treestar]

17. Exactly, that is the whole point.

[MercutioATC]

20. Phhhhhttt. Nonsense.

Read post #4.

[FreakinDJ]

6. Exactly I heard 6000 troops

talk about getting a little excited

[jaxx]

14. 6000 rotated in and out every 2 weeks = 156,000 NG involved.

The Guard troops would mostly serve two-week stints before rotating out of the assignment, so keeping the force level at 6,000 over the course of a year could require up to 156,000 troops.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060516/D8HKJ28O0.html

Nothing is ever as simple as dubya sez it will be.

Did anyone catch the phrasing about how long they would be there? It amounted to "they'll stand down when the border patrol numbers stand up". Now where have I heard that before?

[BuyingThyme]

9. This is nothing but a ruse to bring the WAR ON TERRA to the homeland.

That's what people are expected to believe. This is not about immigration policy; it's an election year stunt from the War Chimp.

I have no idea if it's going to work.

[azurnoir]

13. I would be more worried if they were on the Canadian border

but I'd like to know just what their "marching orders" are, illegals, Minutemen or both. For now they seem to be a political dog and pony show

[AGiordino]

15. It'll probably work like this . . .

Inital deployment of five to six thousand NG troops on the border,
Countdown period for results - 3 months
Report card - Not so good (original deployment remains in place)
Well then,
Another six to nine thousand regular troops 100 - 150 miles from the border
Countdown period for results - 6 months
Report card - Not so good (original deployment + regs remains in place)
Well then,
Another nine to twelve thousand troops 250 miles from the border
Countdown period for results - 9 months
Report card - Not so good (original deployment + secondary regs + tertiary regs remains in place)

And that's how martial law arrives undeclared

Say Citizen! Wouldn't you like to billet a troop defending your freedom from terrorists?
We thought you would! Just don't say no and you've volunteered.

[susanna]

16. Posse Comitatus comes to mind. n/t

[Telly Savalas]

21. Try answer c "attempt to win brownie points with Nativist knuckledraggers"

[Nothing Without Hope]

22. That's what I'm wondering. Away from their home territories, and

meanwhile, the "regular" military has an open field back home to round up all those "dangerous" anti-Bush fellow-citizens.

Is this preparation for their next move, perhaps nuking Iran? With the military in the streets and the National Guard away at the border, the power would support the move to full dictatorship.

That's my nightmare. Meanwhile, the National Guard sent on this more-than-stupid mission is still away from their families and stressed.