My friends10 yr old girl's doing a paper about Barbie being a sexist toy

[henslee]

Am I wrong to wonder why a kid cant a just be a kid without adults projecting their trite PC baggage on them? I mean, there is no way the kid came up with this on her own. To me it feels like the flipside of entering your little girl in those creepy fashion pageants.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. I agree - unless this child is VERY unsually world-aware,

this is parental bullshit being foisted on the poor girl.

I can't imagine any 10 year old girl I know using the term "sexist" in any meaningful way that would make me think that she understands what it means other than at a very superficial way.

[REP]

5. Not Saying It Isn't Parental Posing Through Their Child

but ... 10 is about the age when girls start noticing they get bigger points for being cute'n'pretty than for being smart. Some girls run with the cute'n'pretty, and some start getting pissed off. There is a tiny chance that she initiated the discussion and her parents pointed her ... but there's a bigger chance this is yet another example of parents living vicariously through their kid.

For the record, Barbies weren't allowed in my house growing up, and I didn't miss them - most boring doll ever.

[texasleo]

2. pc parents are just as lame as fundie parents

It's best to ignore both fringes.

[hfojvt]

3. "There's a girl from the school who has something she'd like to read."

"How old are you, young lady?"
"11"
...
Mr. Pozner: "I'd like to know from this child, who told her to read this here."

Billy Jack

[IChing]

4. Ken is the key, he has less sexuality than barbie

I raised a daughter with barbie and believe me.
that is an issue she needs to look at after taking off their clothes
which is half the fun of barbie....

The different outfits....LOL

Now where is that pink corvette she use to have.
\
(no sexuality there in the choice of Mattel, a pink corvette)

[Up2Late]

6. I agree, My sister used to return the Barbies my Niece got...

...to the store, or exchange them for these "normally proportioned" PC/hippie type female dolls.

She never told us, but we over heard my niece say something about NOT returning the Pocahontas Barbie "this time," that I bought her one Christmas.

[noamnety]

7. Parents unload their sexist baggage on kids

beginning when they are a month old and wearing pink ruffly dresses - and it goes downhill from there.

Why is it okay to push sexist stuff on children (barbie, for instance), but not okay to push PC stuff on them? Y'all sound like the opposite of pushing PC info on them is neutrality - and that's not really the case, not if you're buying them toys like that.

[tkmorris]

8. I agree

And I am also getting tired of people using the term "PC" as some sort of perjorative. Why doesn't everyone just leave off the "politically" part and just call such behavior "correct"? That's what it is.


Barbies are inane and teach young girls the wrong perspective altogether of what females should be in our society. Anatomically and proportionally correct dolls are more healthy all round. So why treat people who propose them as if they are some kind of weird leftist freaks?

And to the OP, believe it or not sometimes young kids come up with such ideas on their own. Children, even ones as young as that, have a VERY healthy bullshit detector. And very occassionally they are lucky enough to have parents that don't freak out when they express an opinion. Do parents sometimes force their views on their kids? Sure they do. But don't worry over it, 9 times out of 10 when they do that the kid ends up doing a total 180 around puberty. You've heard of Preacher's daughter syndrome I'm certain but believe me it doesn't just apply to Preachers. It applies to any parent that tries to shove a particular point of view down their childs throat.

[Binka]

9. Best Barbie Story Ever

My daughter had been given a few Barbie's for her Birthday etc but she never had any use for them. She was a bookish science type of girl. So I was surprised when I found a one legged Barbie in her dresser drawer when she was 10ish. When I queried her about the doll she told me "Mom I use it when I play with myself." The birth of the Barbie dildo!

According to Callie Jean it was the ONLY thing a Barbie was good for. :evilgrin:

[TAPat]

10. I'll bet you died laughing!

:rofl: That's great!

[Binka]

13. To This Day I Bring Her A One Legged Barbie When I Visit

Here's another of my children's sexual growing up experiences....when Ben was 13 I bought him a copy of the Joy of Sex. (Ben Callie and Ian are each 2 years apart) But to jazz it up a bit I cut up old pictures of his father (my ex fudie freak from hell) and took his head shots and placed them on the heads of some of the male drawings. Ben was in his room "reading" the book with the door locked when all of the sudden I heard him scream. Then he yelled out "God damn Mom are you trying to make me sick?" Oh he stayed in that room for days with that book. Each subsequent year I passed it down to the other children. Keeping the tradition of their fathers face strategically placed.

I also taught Ben that summer how to put a rubber on a banana which confused Ian greatly! :silly:

edit:typo!

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Now that's what I call culture-jamming!

:evilgrin:

[Binka]

22. She Was And Always Will Be An Iconoclast!

But your post made laugh out loud. Any run ins with our buddy?

[Mad_Dem_X]

34. Whoa! And she was TEN??

I didn't even know what masturbation was at ten, let alone have the nerve to mention it to my mother! :wow:

[Binka]

35. She Was Born Horny And We Have Always Talked About Everything

When she was five she discovered the water jet in our pool and she stayed in the corner all day! She was always 5+ years older than she actually was. Funny that trend stopped when she hit 20. She seems to be going back wards these days!

[zbdent]

45. I told Mrs. ZBDent about this conversation

and she doesn't believe me . . . she didn't believe that a 10ish would be using a dildo (frankly, neither do I). Maybe used in other aspects . . .

But I did point out about the "water jet" thing, and related a news story from a few years back where a young girl suffered fatal injuries sitting on a pool drain, replicating what I believe your daughter was doing . . .

[spuddonna]

49. LMAO!!!

omg that's so funny... I will never look at a Barbie now without thinking about this... :rofl:

[seabeyond]

17. i couldnt agree more

my kids have recognized these things and so much more in their world at such a young age. my dastarddly deed, i talk about it with my kids

last night my 8 year old was watching bush on immigration. he said it was interesting. i was trying ot shoo him out of the room. he brought it up, they should all be able to be here. i had to tell him much more so he gets all perspective. he sat and listened

two years ago my then 9 year old read a bumpersticker on killing babies. i then had to have a discussion on abortion. had to have lots of talk on that to see all the sides, so it wasnt misrepresented and could see all sides. why people think what they do.

my children have recognized gender issue from the youngest of age

i guess the difference is the child that brings these things up and the aprent that actually takes the time to listen and discuss and the parent that says, go away, you are only 10 you should not be dealing iwth these things, leaving the child uninformed and formulating their opinion without facts

[seabeyond]

11. except my just turned 11 yr old has conversation on gi joe's

and how they make their body., and he comes in to tell me some animated character on tv is being talked about being sexy on cartoon channel and why is that. why wouldn't they say she is funny or cool or anything else. and my son talks about girl and boy interaction. boys behavior at this age. girls behavior at this age.

how girls are treated at school vs boys.

why...... because it is in their face everywhere they turn and the best the parent can do is talk and allow the child to talk to work out all these adult images and concepts so their very young mind can figure it out. it is tough having thinking children

my youngest at 8 talks Malcolm vs martin luther, war in iraq, all kinds of things.

that is the kid world today

[LWolf]

12. Who is she doing this paper for?

If she's old enough to be "doing a paper," she's old enough to think about and deal with real issues. One of the reasons we have such a population mass of non-thinkers is because they aren't encouraged to think as well as speak, and then read and write, from the very beginning. They don't see thinking as a crucial skill.

The question is whether she's writing the parent's position or her own; whether or not she is encouraged to engage issues by examining all sides and forming her own conclusions, or whether the conclusions are handed to her like Sunday sermons.

As an educator who's taught kids from ages 5-14, I can assure you that 10 yos are capable of analysis and synthesis, when given the opportunity.

[readmoreoften]

14. Are you fucking kidding me?

Every freshman female in college has written a paper on how Barbie is a sexist toy. The toy is so goddamned sexist that it's suffered a decline in sales so severe that now Mattel is marketing Barbie clothes because the dolls are so passe.

I never played with Barbies as a kid. I wondered why I was supposed to play with vaguely adult looking dolls when I wanted to play with kids my own age. And my parents never bought me one either.

[annabanana]

15. Well, Barbie IS a sexist toy...

Wasn't her actual prototype a little french or german playboy type dominatrix? (IIRC)

[aikoaiko]

28. whats sexist about being based on a dominatrix?

[Scout]

42. anyone have the stats?

there was something about, if Barbie were a real human with the same dimensions as the doll she would be seven feet tall and unable to stand upright with big boobs and tiny feet.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. Barbie IS a sexist toy

It projects a false sense of what is desirable. How many anorexics are due to this false sense of what is sexy and what is not?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

18. Everyday, kids are being shown over and over sexist imagery.

Why don't you complain about that? Why can't kids be kids without having gender bias constantly pushed on them? You act as though this "PC baggage" exists on its own in an otherwise gender-neutral society. It doesn't.

Daughters are told everyday what value a woman has. When people start complaining about that, then perhaps I might take the "PC parents are robbing our children of their youth" crowd seriously.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Didn't you know?

Barbie is the natural state of affairs. People questioning Barbie are no-fun-nik Stalinists. World without end. Amen. ;-)

[seabeyond]

25. my two boys, 8 and 11 watch stupid girls by pink

first they watched dear mr president. and i hit stupid girls at the today show. the woman was talking about why she made stupid girls. then sang the song. first thing out of 8 year olds mouth was there are stupid boys too. my oldest who is doing a lot of figuring out of this male female role says, ya ya ya, we have lots of girls at school like this what is up. (girls are being conditioned)

kids are smart. it is their world. and they are working their arse off to figure it all out

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. My daughter is 8 weeks old, and my wife and I plan on

unloading a lot of "PC baggage" on her, like the notion that women are not sexual objects, that young women need not torture themselves to attain a particular body type, that women can do anything in life, etc. As for Barbie, we certainly won't buy her such rubbish, but if she gets it as a gift, we'll talk with her about the role the doll has played in culture, and why we have a problem with it. Of course, we understand that it's really "trite" to try to think through the politics of our everyday objects, and very "oppressive" to suggest that the power structures in a society manage to replicate themselves through the ways they work on our imaginations. We're real Stalinists, you know, to want our daughter to think critically about the ways culture and power works. You want to hear how awful we are? We don't eat fast food, and we won't take our daughter to any fast food place, ever. GASP! How trite!

on edit: I like Binka's daughter's work-around of the Barbie problem above. Talk about - ahem - culture jamming...;-)

[seabeyond]

27. i didnt have daughters, but my sister in law was sittin with me

when her daughter was about 5, witting with it. she boldly looking me in the eye said something about eating, and it was all good, in moderation, the yummy and the healthy...... isnt that right she asks me. kinda pushed me back, but it was for confirmation from nother female for her daughter . for some reason, the lesson was necessary to hear older women talk that eating healthy and in moderation was all we needed as females.

jsut kinda floored me. but i understand what she was asing of me. i being an example for the niece.

and congratualtions. have a blast

[earthmama]

23. Good for her

I am proud of her for seeing Barbie for what she is and not falling for the 'Barbie dream'.

[Fleshdancer]

24. I refuse to buy my daughter Bratz dolls....

I'm projecting my beliefs of sexuality on my daughter by not allowing any Bratz dolls and I'm ok with that. My belief is that dressing like a street hooker is not self respecting and a young woman is valued by her intelligence and character and not by the color of her belly ring or lip gloss. Overall, this is what parents do. I also don't think life-like toy guns are acceptable nor overtly violent video games either.

As for Barbie, if she were a real woman, she wouldn't be able to have babies because her waist is extremely disproportionally small to the rest of her body. Then there's the fact that her legs are elongated and her breasts are unnaturally large for her extremely slender figure. These issues of proportion are also exaggerated in the advertisement world as well. It isn't uncommon to digitally alter an image that shaves inches off the waist of a real woman who already happens to be thin. Legs are digitally elongated, eyes and teeth are whitened, lips are made to look fuller, etc. Already, this society bombards me and my daughter to this unnatural and extreme female form and this is what passes for beauty. It's my prerogative as a parent, to push back on these messages.

[zbdent]

39. comical that point about (and it is true) Bratz dressing like street

street hookers . . . my RW brother has a wonderful daughter . . . and one of her demands for Christmas was one of those Bratz . . . and she got it . . . :rofl:

[Fleshdancer]

41. ugh! These dolls are ridiculous (pic):

What message does this send to girls?

[noonwitch]

40. I won't buy Bratz dolls for kids, either-I call them Slut dolls

I don't have a problem with Barbie so much. I will concede that her figure is impossible, but she has come a long way, baby. You can get a marine scientist Barbie, a doctor Barbie, a teacher Barbie, a veternarian Barbie, etc. She's not just a vapid blonde anymore, like Malibu Stacy on "The Simpsons".

[Fleshdancer]

43. We're of the same mindset

My daughter has a few Barbies. I refuse to do the My Scene line just because it seems to be Barbie's response to the street whore Bratz nonsense. My daughter doesn't really play with them though. As for the impossible body issue...my daughter prefers the fairytopia line anyway so adding a mermaid tail or fairy wings makes it more fantasy which (for some reason) I can justify. :)

At the end of the day, I think toys are getting too sophisticated. I would rather give my daughter crayons or music for indoors and a jump rope or a ball for outside and let her mind go wild. Most of the toys she has she doesn't even play with.

[crispini]

26. Oh, I was nagging my mother about how to vote when I was 12.

Some kids really are that aware & informed.

And, yeah, it's a sexist toy. Dur!

[Fleshdancer]

44. lol, I was the same way!

My mom caught me watching C-Span when I was 12. :D

My biggest pet peeve at that age was people underestimating me. I was more informed than many of my teachers and yet I was patronized as a child. Fortunately my parents treated me with the intellectual respect I wanted.

[lukasahero]

46. When I was 9 I had the ultimate falling out with my mother

I told her I voted for McGovern in my third grade class mock election. Neither she nor I have ever forgotten it. I knew who I voted for and why. I knew who I did not vote for and why. Kids understand A LOT more than we think they do - especially when we bother to teach them.

Oh, and for the record - I preferred the Johnny West series (mostly the horses actually but Jamie was great as a role model for a young girl.) Never had much use for Barbie's pink convertible and kitchen accessories. :eyes:

Edited to correct age/grade. Apparently, I have forgotten *some* of it. ;)

[philosophie_en_rose]

29. I did a report on Barbie being sexist in the fourth grade.

So about 10.

My parents had no influence, neither did the media.

I was not a brainwashed by anyone.

However, I noticed that Barbie represented what girls were supposed to be like and (as a short, dark-haired minority) did not believe she represented everyone. In addition, her "colored" versions were not their own identities. It was the same looking white barbie with a dark tan.

No one looks like Barbie, who is allegedly "all American." And I noticed that girls are supposed to want to look like Barbie - where boys aren't trained to want to look like Ken. Sad.

It wasn't a long or highly researched report, but I did it on my own.

I don't think you're giving enough credit to 10 year olds. By 10, most kids are capable of thinking on their own.

[marions ghost]

32. I played Torture Barbie

:evilgrin:

Maybe better to write essays.

[bleedingheart]

30. Barbie is what you make of her...My Barbie was a lawyer, a Doctor

who cured cancer and was fashionable while doing it...

[Mad_Dem_X]

36. Thank you...

Personally, I love Barbie, always have. She can be anything you want her to be. Looking back, mine were usually athletes. I was terrible at sports, so my dolls did everything I couldn't. :)

[Rainbowreflect]

31. My sister was not much older than 10 when title nine passed.

The day after if passed she walked up to her gym teacher and told her that he could not make the girls wear the ugly gym suits anymore, that we could now wear T-shirts & short like the guys.
Believe me, my mom was shocked when she got a call from the school. My sister came up with that all by herself.

[newportdadde]

33. Depends on the child I suppose but seems young.

Children get into different hobbies/interests at different ages. Some 10 year olds get into say dinosaurs on their own I suppose this little girl could be into barbie and sexism on her own as well.

However, there are parents who rant about Bush and the evils of RW politics. In my opinion this young age indoctrinization is on the same level as the freepers who pound Jesus at their kids etc. I'm not talking about exposure, or a comment to a spouse or friend overheard by a child. I'm talking about the full blown the other side is evil garbage that gets spewed about. It just creates more division and anger. My two best friends at work are RW, in all things except politics and religion we get along great I would hate to think I would have missed out on their friendship if I had been raised differently.

When Terri Shivo was being staked out by fundies many did not like the fact children were used as pawns, can't the same be said for the 4 year old wearing the anti-Bush T-shirt at the street march? Neither kid really knew what the hell was going on.

My take on this and how I plan to raise my sons is to leave the door open for them. I expect they will hear me talk to their mother or grandfather during side convestation but I'm not going to lecture to them. If they ask my opinion I will give it to them. I will even give the other sides take as best I can and I will point out why I believe its wrong personally.

[titoresque]

37. I agree!

Let the kids keep their imagination and creativity for as long as they can!

[peekaloo]

38. shades of Lisa Simpson and Malibu Stacy.

Ask the parents if you could read her report.

I agree about the parents dumping their baggage on the kid but maybe she's precocious.

:hi:

[npincus]

47. she sounds like a mature kid to me

the probability of her developing the proportions of a Barbie doll as she grows are probably slim to none, and maybe she would like a more realistic ideal to aspire to and admire. Nothing wrong with that!

[BlooInBloo]

48. You call giving sexist toys to little girls "just letting a kid be a kid"?

Wow.