If the elections were stolen:

[The Backlash Cometh]

Reading over Palast's explanation that the NSA cover-up (latest development, Arlen Specter is now ruling in favor of the Bush Administration) is not just about phone tapping, but about election fraud. If the presidential elections were stolen, the pattern of theft had to be there BEFORE the 2000 & 2004 elections. So you would have had to see the patterns in regional localities before then. They would have comfortably had to get away with this stuff on a small scale, before they attempted to steal the country.

I know I've seen strange things in my county. Specifically, I've seen Democrats and third party candidates winning by large margins during the day, only to see the numbers flip in the evening. The pattern held that way all the time I lived here, but this is a Republican county, so everyone bought the theory that Republicans worked and only voted after they got home from work. I realize this is as big a lie as it comes. This is the county where the election supervisor allowed the Republican representative a room in her office to change absentee ballots and got away with it.

Anyways, did anybody else see fishy voting patterns in their counties before 2000?

[readmoreoften]

1. very good point. /nt

[seabeyond]

2. bush beating richardson would be interesting to look at n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Agreed. That was an important one.

Apparently they still didn't have Florida because Jeb Bush didn't beat Lawton Chiles in Florida. So, if they started with Richardson, we can follow the plume backwards.

[sofa king]

4. Way back in about 1994 in Herndon, VA.

Back then, Herndon was still a provincial little outpost on the fringes of the DC Metro area, though it had already grown by leaps and bounds. The town is only about four square miles, with perhaps three lower-income neighborhods back then. I lived in one of those.

My memory is a little bit foggy, but the scam went something like this. The polling place for my 'hood was changed, and a notice was sent out in yellow envelopes with no return address which for all the world resembled junk mail. I know I must have thrown mine away, if I got it at all.

But there was another twist beyond that, one which I still don't understand. By changing the polling place, we were also required to re-register to vote--or something--with a deadline of ninety days before the election. I learned about it in the papers after the deadline passed.

While I unhappily accepted responsibility for my disenfranchisement, I also realized that the move was clearly designed to block a significant proportion of that town's population from the polls. I don't remember if there were local issues on the ballot. Within a couple of years, the wooded areas around those poor neighborhoods were all under development. Even then that district was safe for Frank Wolf, so I always assumed it was a local scam.

But now that I think of it, maybe it was just practice.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Development would have been a big reason to steal an election.

There was a straw vote here in my area, which we later learned was rigged (The city manager extended the time to acquire votes in his favor) and that vote suddenly became a mandate for a special tax for a Beautification project. The State Supreme court even gave the city the right to do it. And there is a lot of shady things going on in that committee, but people are just tired of fighting something that is so corrupt and has so many friends in high places, they just tune out. I always say, this is not a community, it's real estate.

[radwriter0555]

5. http://www.votescam.com is about election fraud in FL BEFORE 2000

and really was the template used for bush's theft in 2000.

Might want to look into that. I'd read the story in the summer of 2000 and thought I was losing my mind when I watched the bush regime do it all over again.

It's by the Collier brothers.

Hold on to your pants.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. I'll book mark and read later.

The crimes that this Administration and his cronies have committed are so unprecedented. Katrina V. was right. When it's all over, there will be enough Congressmen in federal prison to hold a quorum.

[marions ghost]

8. I saw it in the 90's

in local elections, things that would make everyone here cringe. The state boards of elections were complicit. There was never any contest, though insiders freely admitted the elections were rigged. So yes, the supporting apparatus was in place and in 2000 and 04 with Diebold et al. --all they had to do was apply the fixes where necessary and tweak the disenfranchisement mechanisms a bit.

We have not had fair and transparent elections in this country ever. If we could it would bring revolutionary changes. And people, even liberals, fear change.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. The thing I don't get is that this would involve massive fraud.

And you know that the people in control of the election's office HAVE to know something about this. Maybe it's time for amnesty for those who come out early and talk.

[marions ghost]

17. right

I'm saying that I saw what I would consider massive fraud, in the cumulative effects of little "helpers" everywhere. Everyone knows about it. Ask a few people who work inside elections or campaigns in your state. Look at Ohio and Florida, where some of it has been exposed. Problem is, election crimes are not considered crimes, just part of the game to win. I believe that Dems do it much less (having better candidates), but they are complicit in the sense that they don't fight it when they see it. There are no effective mechanisms to fight the problems within the legal system, after the fact. It needs to be addressed up front.

I don't think a call for amnesty would get anywhere. It would ruffle too many feathers and upset too many applecarts. Nobody would want to be a whistleblower. We are talking about a very entrenched system. I think we need to completely reform it from the ground up, and then theoretically everyone has amnesty, as long as they comply with the new system of transparency and oversight. Basically our antiquated byzantine election system has suffered from a whole lot of institutionalized neglect.

[Junkdrawer]

9. ES&S and Diebold trace their roots to the Urosevich brothers...

and a company called American Information Systems. The family of an extreme R/W Fundie injected a huge amount of cash into this company in the early 80s and together they now count 80% of the vote.

Now, do you think they would start with a Presidential election, or would they start with local elections, work their way up to grabbing the US Congress and THEN grab the Presidency? :shrug:

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. If these NSA phone records could be used to backtrack the

people who were involved in the election fraud, it might all be worth it.

[sofa king]

19. Now you're talking crazy talk.

Using the NSA to discover election thieves might fall dangerously within the realm of plausibility. There will be lots of people who don't want you to think about that.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. IMHO, they perfected their system at selective state & local elections...

...then brought the entire system on line for the 2000 election.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. I absolutely have no doubt this is how it HAD to happen.

But that means there must be a plume, a trail, of how it all came together. Why can't we see it? It should be obvious.

[Junkdrawer]

18. I've suggested that a correlation be made between the rollout...

of ES&S/Diebold equipment and the Republican takeover of the House.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. Take a close look at the state/local elections of 1998...

...you'll definitely start to see the monkey business that went full-out in 2000.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. We need a colored map. There has to be correlations between

where it started, and how it began to converge.

[sofa king]

20. There used to be a beautiful one at the Museum of American History.

It was on the floor, so people could stand on it, and was broken down by county and type of voting machine used. here's an article which mentions it.



And Dave Leip's election atlas for 2004:

[TechBear_Seattle]

14. Heh, heh, heh. You said, "If" n/t

[txindy]

21. I've lost track of the elections they've stolen in Texas.

Others here have documented the cases, though. There are many.

[mod mom]

22. I heard the New Hampshire Republican Primary in 1988 was manipulated.

I heard this from a former Republican attorney, who didn't realize it to years later. Dole was expected to win and miraculous change in the polls occurred. Guess who came from behind?

The Iowa Echo, And Playing For Second In New Hampshire
Also: Centrism, No Passing Fancy; Small Changes In Question Wording Department

Released: January 3, 1996

While the New Hampshire primary is known for surprise outcomes, it is a real long shot that someone will come from the back of the pack to defeat Bob Dole. The results of recent polls find Dole with one of the biggest leads in recent New Hampshire primary history. Further, his big margin in the Iowa polls only promises to strengthen his position in the New England state, given the usual impact of the outcome of those caucuses on New Hampshire voters. Dole's most serious adversary may well be the expectations raised by his lofty position in the polls.

If polling history is any guide, a serious challenger to Dole in New Hampshire should have emerged by this point. Four years ago, the Democratic front runners in the polls were Clinton and Tsongas, respectively. By primary day, this ranking was re-arranged, as Gennifer Flowers and Tsongas's local appeal combined to give the former Massachusetts senator a victory over the nationally emerging Clinton. Also four years ago, the early New Hampshire polls clearly showed Buchanan making a significant impact as an anti-Bush, protest candidate. (Today his showing in the polls as a populist/nationalist candidate is in the single digits).

Eight years ago, Bush and Dole were the January front runners for the GOP nomination. Local favorite Dukakis was well ahead in the Democratic race. In fact, his lead in early 1988 was as large as Dole's is today.

But among other things, such early polls could not take into account the outcome of the Iowa caucuses, which invariably has an important impact on the thinking of New Hampshire voters. Gallup's David Moore, a veteran New Hampshire pollster observes that voters in the Granite State are frequently swayed by how the national media covers Iowa results in the short time period between the two contests. In 1988 ( In 1992, Iowa meant little to the New Hampshire Democratic race because of favorite son Harkin's victory), Dole's victory in Iowa catapulted him into the lead in New Hampshire, which he held until Bush's final day blitz. Gephardt's Iowa victory that same year lifted him from the 5% level in the early polls to a solid second place finish, as he became Dukakis's principal opponent in the Super Tuesday primaries.


http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=30

[jazzjunkysue]

23. Read Fooled Again, by Mark Crispin Miller. They're all rigged. Even 06 and

08.

Unless we wake up and demand paper ballots and open source code for counting the vote.

Who was it who said it doesn't matter how you vote but who counts the votes? Was it Blackwell?

Wake up, sheeples. you've been had.