Chavez to supply Europes poor with discounted oil next year..

[RethugAssKicker]

I believe he announced this yesterday in Vienna.... I have not heard any reaction yet
from European leaders yet. I'm sure it won't be the same as Herr Bush!

What do you think Chavez's ultimate goal is? IMO I truly believe it is altruistic.

[thoughtanarchist]

1. Chavez bashers descending upon your thread in 10...9...8...

:popcorn:

[RethugAssKicker]

16. actually took alot longer than that... but they;re here now !

[mccoyn]

2. Is that the oil he bought from Russia?

I'm not sure how he can give reduced oil prices when he can't fill the contracts they have now.

[Missy M]

10. and you know this how? Please elaborate

[mccoyn]

From a thread I read here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1090332

Actually, after rereading the thread, I see there is some questions about it.

[rman]

34. There are *a lot* of questions about supposed 'facts' that the OP

of that thread presents. Corporate_mike doesn't exactly represent a majority view on DU.

[mccoyn]

23. From a thread I read here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1090332

Actually, after rereading the thread, I see there is some questions about it.

[cigsandcoffee]

3. The only thing I'm sure of is that it's not altruistic.

Chavez gives me the creeps, like most Latin American dictators (or soon-to-be dictators). I think his "oil dimplomacy" is meant to foment support for him among well-intentioned people, which is something they may later regret offering. Even Pol Pot and Mao had some sympathizers before the scope of their crimes against humanity were known.

[Generic Other]

4. So far his only "crime " has been to be anti *

"soon-to-be dictator" ? Are you soon-to-be psychic?

I trade * for Chavez in a second.

[KittyWampus]

5. You've glossed over Chavez's issues with human rights & freedom of press

[Missy M]

12. What issues are they?

[RethugAssKicker]

15. He is fighing the RW newspapers....So, naturally they will

attack him with BS commie propaganda !

[rman]

18. unsubstantiated claims

[cigsandcoffee]

6. Your attitude is the problem, IMO

The President of Iran is also anti-Bush. But that doesn't make him a good guy, does it?

Chavez isn't so awful now, but some of the stuff he is doing to consolidate his power is more than a little iffy, and very suspect in terms of the path to dicatorship ever-present in some Latin American countries. Go on and sing his praises if his being anti-Bush is all that's important to you, but Bush will only be around for another year or two, and reaction to him shouldn't define who is thought of as freinds or foes in foreign policy.

[Blue-Jay]

7. Tell me who THIS statement could be describing:

"some of the stuff he is doing to consolidate his power is more than a little iffy".

Any ideas?

[cigsandcoffee]

8. Indeed. So why forgive in Chavez what you wouldn't in Bush?

[rman]

31. Except that you present no evidence that Chavez is doing that

[LoZoccolo]

22. Right.

I've maintained for months that Chavez is a South American version of Bush*. I don't have to like what one of them is doing to disapprove of the other.

[LoZoccolo]

21. So far his only "accomplishment" has been to be anti *

He does that, and he has a flock of sympathizers in this country making excuses for everything he does.

[Solon]

25. Incorrect, he reduced proverty, increased literacy...

is rebuilding agriculture, and helping to start cooperatives to compete with more "traditional" economic structures. In addition to that, he is positioning his country to fight off Neo-Liberal free trade policies and is offering an alternative to those policies in South America.

[rman]

32. Bullshit

Among Chavez' accomplishments are eradication of illiteracy, providing free healthcare, education and food to the poor.

[Missy M]

11. How can you be sure of that....

do you know him personally?

[RethugAssKicker]

14. Dictator ?,.... he was democratically elected !

Don't buy the hype !

Latin America is currently having a left wing revolution of democratically elected
liberal leaders !... This is a good thing!... Not a bad thing!

[rman]

17. Gut-feeling, right?

Following the great example in the WH.

[RethugAssKicker]

19. Yes it is a gut-feeling that democratically elected

liberal leaders is better than right-winged US backed (or installed) dictators.

Obviously, you don't agree. Why not?

[LoZoccolo]

20. Mao and Pol Pot still have sympathizers.

Wherever there are leftists who are insecure, impotent, or out of touch with reality, there will be Mao and Pol Pot sympathizers.

[Generic Other]

24. "insecure, impotent, or out of touch with reality"?

"Mao and Pol Pot sympathizers..." First time since I've been on DU that anyone called me a pinko commie. WTF? The cold war is over man.

Everything I read about Chavez suggests he's been a force for positive change in his country.

[LoZoccolo]

26. What??!!

Read my post again.

[Generic Other]

27. Pol Pot and Mao

I thought even throwing these two names out was ridiculous, but I see you are not the one who introduced them into the argument. I clearly was responding to two posts written by two different people.

I still find the comparison to Chavez baseless. And I reject the idea that those who admire Chavez should be equated with followers of Pol Pot or Mao.

What evidence do you have to make such a comparison?

[LoZoccolo]

28. They both have sympathizers who'll make excuses for them.

That that's done for Chavez shouldn't be a surprise because people did it for Pol Pot and Mao. That was like, the original argument. It's still there if you'd like to review it.

[Generic Other]

29. They both breathe air too...linking Pol Pot admirers to Chavez admirers

is meant to smear one group by association with the other. I have never heard anyone on DU defend Pol Pot. I have no reason to see an analogy between support of one and the other.

To suggest that those who defend Chavez are like those who defend Pol Pot is a deliberate attempt to smear your opposition rather than offer a cogent argument of your own.

[LoZoccolo]

30. I have not seen anyone defend Pol Pot on DU either.

When did I say that?

Actually, don't bother, you said this:

To suggest that those who defend Chavez are like those who defend Pol Pot is a deliberate attempt to smear your opposition rather than offer a cogent argument of your own.

There's that word "deliberate", which you didn't have a right to use. I don't have to put up with this. You're going on ignore until after the election. We have work to do until 2006, and I won't have it hindered by giving attention to someone who might try to tell me what I think and why I do what I do. I just have too much to pay attention to.

:hi: :nuke:

[Generic Other]

35. Putting me on ignore because I asked for proof?

Guess you don't have any.

[rman]

33. Those are very, very rare - and has nothing to do with Chavez

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Dirty, sneaky, commie. Undermining poor downtrodden BP & Exxon.

What's next? Sending help to New Orleans? Oh, wait, he wanted to do that but we turned him down.

[tatertop]

13. The proof is in the pudding!

Let us reward good and punish evil.
Viva Chavez!