Yes, Tony Snow is a racist

[proud2BlibKansan]

He proved it this morning when he said "tar baby". And if you need more proof, read this column:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/tony/snow123199.asp

and ask yourself why would a blonde headed white guy care enough about Kwanzaa to write a column criticizing it if he wasn't a racist pig?

[LeftNYC]

1. yeah but he fought cancer...so he gets a pass

:sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Oh so that's it

LOL

[stopbush]

17. But didn't he have "good cancer?"

You know, like good Hodgkinson's?

Larry David Curb Your Enthusiasm reference (for those of you wondering what the hell I'm talking about).

[LeftNYC]

34. the good hodgkins...LOL! love that show...nt

[Robbie Michaels]

60. LOL

So did Laura Ingraham

[Recursion]

2. Dude...

I've called the war in Iraq a "tar baby". No matter what you say, that does not make me a racist. Snow may or may not be a racist; I don't know. But if he is, that's not what's going to prove it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Did you also write a column criticizing Kwanzaa?

[Recursion]

15. No

That wasn't me. I like Kwanza.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Read some of the other replies here, Dude

It is definitely offensive.

[Solo_in_MD]

35. An lot of people question kawnzaa

That does not make us racists. Have you every looked at the instigator of it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Are you African American? If not, why do you care??

Kwanzaa is not a federal holiday, no one gets off work, kids don't miss school. What difference does it make to non African Americans what the story behind the holiday is?? I find it odd when people want to criticize cultural practices in cultures other than their own. Sorry I don't understand that at all. I don't criticize Kwanzaa and I don't criticize Cinco de Mayo either.

[Solo_in_MD]

46. Kwanzaa is not a cultural practice nor is it a historical event like

Cino de Mayo. Given its history, I wonder how anyone can take it seriously and I do not assume that those who question are racist.

[Runcible Spoon]

50. ummm I'm a doctoral candidate in cultural anthropology

and since every deliberate human action imbued with signification is "cultural practice" in some way or another then yes Kwanzaa is a "cultural event". And the question of whether or not something is "historical" is a sticky trap...9/11 only happened a few years ago but already most would consider it an important historical event. Kwanzaa recontextualizes a meddley of African traditions, beliefs and practices into an experience that resonantes with the experiences and collective identity of many African Americans. Our Western way of celebrating Christmas underwent a very similar and deliberate set of transformational processes to give us the holiday which few would question as either "cultural" or historic". If enough people want to attach signification and celebrate Kwanzaa for a sustained period of time, then yes Kwanzaa can be (and IS to many) a historical cultural event.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Yes it is an African American holiday

That is cultural, IMO.

[kestrel91316]

94. Are you drunk or on drugs????

"Kwanzaa is not a cultural practice"???????? WTF is it, then? A type of food???? Maybe the name of some tropical bird???

Jesus wept.........

[goclark]

49. Yes I knew Ron when he was a dedicated activist

during the Civil Rights days.

He was extremely bright and committed.

As an African American, I don't question Kwanzaa, just as I don't question St. Patrick's Day.

If it makes a group of people feel good about their heritage, excellent.

We enjoy celebrating Christmas and Kwanzaa with our family and friends.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

79. Sure. Lot's a people question it.

Racists.

[alittlelark]

87. Have you donated yet !?!

just askin'.....;-)

[kestrel91316]

93. What on earth gives you the right to "question" an ethnic cultural

celebration? You are under no obligation to celebrate it yourself. But you DON'T get to question somebody else celebrating it. Period.

P.S. - Your use of the term "instigator" rather than founder tells me a lot about you and your attitude toward blacks.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

69. The sad thing here, is that Americans use racist terms and....

...don't even realize they're doing it.

How sad.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

3. I heard that and winced. It was an awful allegory and tells me he's in

over his head. MKJ

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Look at this column of his

He says it here too

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/tony/snow040599.asp

[atommom]

9. Same here. I hadn't heard that term in many, many years

and even when I was a child and ran across the tar baby story in an old book, I could see it for what it was. Regardless of what his personal beliefs are, making a statement like that is political suicide.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. In the bush administration, that statement just means he fits right in

We all saw how much they care about black people after Katrina.

[kestrel91316]

95. "Political suicide"??? Nahhhh - just displaying his bona fides to the guys

[mtnester]

65. He said that outloud? Even as an allegorical statement

a public official used those words outloud?

Good GOD we have a bunh of IDIOTS running this country.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

76. Heard it, saw it, couldn't believe it. Yep, the words "tar baby" were

spoken from the WH Press Secretary's podium. MKJ

[TAPat]

5. When I heard him say that

I about fell out of my chair!
Does he seriously think he can get away with that? :crazy:
All CNN could do was replay the part where he cried...

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. I am glad to see most DUers get it

But it looks like we need to educate some folks.

[BlooInBloo]

10. "Most" seems optimistic to me... but one can always hope... :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I am in an optimistic mood today I guess

:)

[BlooInBloo]

27. Then don't let me burst your bubble! :)

[onenote]

11. yep. like all those folks that refer to the iraq war as a tar-baby

Like Congresswoman Diane Watson of California. Hope you'll send her a letter chastising her for "not getting it."

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ca33_watson/pr050628.html

onenote

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Did she also write a column criticizing Kwanzaa?

Did she also write for a publication that features David Duke as a regular contributor?

[onenote]

26. I didn't say Snow isn't racist. But his use of "tar baby" isn't

what proves his racism.

onenote

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Then read his column I linked in the OP

[onenote]

40. I've read the column, and I thought snow was a racist before he got

this job. But you said his use of the phrase "tar baby" proves he's racist. I disagree. His column proves it, but his use of the phrase "tar baby" in a non racist context doesn't "prove" anything about him, just as Huffington's non-racist use of it doesn't prove anything about her.

onenote

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. No, I said BOTH the column and the word he used today

prove he is a racist. Not just one or the other.

on edit - I reread my OP and see the confusion. I guess I should have phrased it differently. Sorry bout that.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

73. Some education in literature would be a good place to start.

[TahitiNut]

14. OMFG!! What's next!?! Is he gonna use the word "denigrate"!?!?!

Then he'll say "niggardly," I suppose!!!?!!??

:eyes: :puke: As if there's no real atrocities and abominations to point to.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. So another racist in the WH is no big deal to you?

[TahitiNut]

25. Since fucking when am *I* the subject??

This is the sadly predicitable habit of people without a rational argument: Attack anyone who doesn't agree implying they're a sexist or racist!

I'm old enough to have been called a "n____-lover" on too many occasions to count, so your ad hominem bullshit is just the same ol' bullshit I've heard before. It still smells just as bad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Hold on! I NEVER said you were a racist

Tony Snow is. That bothers me. I believe the WH press sec needs to not be a racist. If you disagree, I think it is safe to assume you don't care.

[Mandate My Ass]

19. He was referring to an issue being a sticky one

like the tar baby in the Brer Rabbit story. He wasn't referring to a person but topic he didn't want to discuss.

He's guilty of being a repuke asshole but he didn't utter a racial slur at the briefing today.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Intent doesn't matter

It is as offensive as the N word. I can remember when I was a kid my dad's friend used to say he was going to get the N version of something to save money. So he wasn't referring to a black person, but it was still an offensive term. And you sure don't hear it anymore, do you?

Tar baby is an incredibly stupid thing to say and also offensive. I would NEVER use the expression.

But if tony hadn't also written the column criticizing Kwanzaa, just saying tar baby is not enough evidence to prove he is a racist pig. I first saw that article in a white supremacist publication someone linked here. One of the other contributing writers to that publication is David Duke. How much more proof do you need?

[Ravy]

28. Intent should be all that matters when labeling someone racist. (n/t)

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Ask an African American

and get back to me.

[Ravy]

67. I have a good friend who hates being called an "African American"

He prefers that people call him "black", or as he says, better yet, just "American".

So, are you *sure* you don't want to take back that "African American" reference?

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. My black friends don't seem to care

African American or black. Just not the N word. And definitely not tar baby :)

[Ravy]

88. I think the point is that Tony Snow did not refer to any person as

a tar baby. I just think you are overreaching with your racist accusation.

That cheapens allegations when real racism is detected. Crying wolf, so to speak.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. It is an offensive term even if he is not using it to refer to

a particular person. When you couple this with that opinion piece he wrote about Kwanzaa, racist is a perfectly justifiable label for him. And remember, he is a regular columnist for a white supremacist website.

This is far from a cheap allegation.

[Solo_in_MD]

36. Which is damned hard to prove

but easy to smear with

[Mandate My Ass]

32. I didn't know about the Kwanza thing

but tar baby is a term is one that I've heard used frequently and by people who are:

A) not racists

B) talking about not getting themselves into a situation that would be impossible to extricate themselves from because it's a trap.

Personally, I don't find it offensive used in that context. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. It's in my OP

And think about this - racism today is often masked in discriminatory behavior and is not overt.

You are right, this term alone is not enough to label its users racist. But it IS derogatory, according to my African American friends. I trust and respect their opinions.

Now if letting this word slip out had been all Tony Snow had done, I would not have started this thread. But he also wrote that piece criticizing Kwanzaa. And again I ask why in the world would a white man give a shit about an African American holiday UNLESS he had a racist agenda???

[Recursion]

37. Intent doesn't matter?

I'm literally astounded and speechless by that claim.

Intent doesn't matter? WTF is the point of even talking about it then? At any point you can say "you didn't intend the word 'chair' to be racist, but I am offended, so it is."

You're example of someone saying "I'll get the N****** version of X to save money" isn't comparable. The N* word has one, and exactly one meaning: it's a mispronunciation of the Spanish word for "black". It has only ever been applied to people with dark skin. Any other use (like the one you mentioned) has come from racist assumptions about the quality of goods people with dark skin produce.

"Tar baby" comes from a story. In the story the tar baby represents a problem that cannot be solved by further struggling with it. That is a very clear meaning and, until an hour ago, the only meaning of the phrase I had ever encountered.

The worst thing is, I'm up here defending Snow. I hate this dude. But we'll just get people pissed at that bogey-man "political correctness" if we attack him in a situation like this where it's clear he said "tar baby" meaning "sticky situation". AND as people point out we'll have people counter-attacking all the democratic politicians who have used the exact same word to describe Iraq.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. It really doesn't

That's what I taught my kids and I teach my students too. If you use an expression that offends someone, they are still offended whether you meant to offend them or not. Some words are always offensive, regardless of the context.

What matters is NOT the intent, but how it was perceived. That is one of the most important lessons I have learned in my life. It sure keeps me from inadvertently saying offensive things.

[Igel]

47. That means this kind of racism can never be proven,

merely perceived.

It means what I say doesn't matter, just what you think I necessarily meant is the point: I'm guilty not for something I've done, or even intended, but for something imputed to me by others. No evidence needed, and no defense is possible. It makes you the judge, jury, and appeals court. You accuse somebody of falsely meaning something, they explain, and you get to continue to be upset--no forgiveness needed for a misunderstanding, because it's always *their* misunderstanding, their fault for not being omniscient and prescient: a requirement always imposed on the other person. Hubris doesn't begin to cover it.

This goes way, way beyond the (offensive) idea lurking in the word "thought crime," and shows that Orwell was a piker, a loser sorely lacking in imagination and insight when it came to how language and society could be manipulated.

Find some other offense that works this way, and I'll show you something resulting from a deeply warped society, from people with a deep totalitarian streak.

By the way, in case you didn't notice, it doesn't keep you from saying deeply offensive things. You can't always predict what I'm going to find offensive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. It is true I cannot predict what may or may not offend you

But this is a rule, as I said, that I have lived by and it serves me well. It keeps me from saying things like tar baby.

It is just about being empathic. I concern myself more with how the other person feels that with what I think or mean. I honestly believe that if more people acted out of empathy, then we would have a kinder gentler society. Not a bad goal if you ask me.

[karlrschneider]

55. Well, the problem with this particular phrase is that people are too

goddamn stupid to know what it has historically actually meant. The ONLY possible explanation for that ignorance is some convoluted (and wrong-headed) notion that since tar is black, it just HAS to be some kind of racist/bigoted expression.

I suppose there are people who get offended by "The black hole of Calcutta" too.

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. No it really IS offensive

I have now asked 4 African American co-workers and they were all in agreement that it is an offensive expression. Maybe as I said earlier, it is just a regional thing, but it really is not something I would say here in the midwest.

[karlrschneider]

68. Ask them if they can explain WHY they consider it offensive.

I'm offering 5 to 1 odds they can't make a rational case or even know where it originated.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. You lose

It is a street term used to describe very dark skinned African Americans. We absolutely do not let the kids say it at school to each other. It is used as an insult, as in 'nappy headed'.

But hey, if you don't believe me, yell 'TAR BABY' into a crowd of African Americans and see what happens. :)

As far as where it originated, who cares? I don't plan on incorporating the term into my personal vocabulary so I am not the least bit concerned where it originated.

[karlrschneider]

77. Well if that's true, it's been co-opted by morons.

I'm getting pretty goddamn sick and tired of having to watch every word in the off-chance it might offend some thin-skinned idiot's tender sensibilities. It seems that some would have us dumb down our vocabularies to the level of parakeets. Or worse, Bush.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. Oh come on

It's called cultural education. Before I began teaching, I read every thing I could get my hands on about the Black culture. I was going to teach in their community. I knew I needed to educate myself so I wouldn't inadvertently say or do anything offensive. I will never forget my first year teaching in an all Black school, one of my girls told me I dressed like a preppie. So I bought some new clothes. Maybe because it was my job, but I wanted the kids to focus on LEARNING and not on how I was diferent from them.

I have seen white teachers come and go. The ones who stay are the ones who do like I do, and try to understand the community they are working in. There is a great little third year teacher who is leaving us at the end of the year to go teach in the burbs. She admitted to me just yesterday that the culture gap is just too great for her personally. Our school is 90% Hispanic. So I am doing all I can to learn about the Hispanic culture. It is my job to reach the children and to build trust with them and with their parents. I guess that was just to much for this young teacher. And I feel badly for her.

One of the proudest moments in my life lately was when I went to a local immigration rally and saw one of the families from my school. The mother told her daughter "I KNEW Mrs. P would care enough to be here to support us".

I don't spend anytime whatsoever being hurt or insulted about anyone else's "thin skinned tender sensibilities". And I can't even begin to describe how rich my life is. I grew up in a Beaver Cleaver all white community. I wanted to move on as an adult and as a professional. And I couldn't be prouder of what I do for a living. Learning to understand a different culture has been so rewarding.

[karlrschneider]

84. By and large, "cultural education" is mostly re-writing history to

conform to whatever political correctness is in vogue at any given time.
However, you actually DO seem to be concerned with the "thin skinned tender sensibilities" that I mentioned and of which you summarily dismiss.

I have spent time in no less than 42 countries as a professional pilot and engineer and have made every effort to appreciate and conform to the cultures of the places I went - to me it's nothing more or less than common courtesy and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect equivalent efforts by those who come to my country, even if (and maybe especially) they have come with the intent to remain.

But be that as it may, I don't think you can condense "black culture" into a syllabus, much less a functional paradigm any more than you could do the same for "white culture" or "Hispanic culture" for that matter (Spaniards in Spain have little in common with Peruvians except a linguistic approximation) But if you think you can do either, let's see a summary in 500 words or less; I don't think you can do it, I sure couldn't.

And I seriously doubt that 3rd graders (9 or 10 years old?) are so irrevocably steeped in -any- cultural bog that they can't easily assimilate one or more others. I know and I know YOU know kids of that age are far more malleable than adults are.

[proud2BlibKansan]

91. But I don't just work with kids

I have to be accepted by their parents also. And my co-workers who don't share my race and/or culture. I am more than willing to accept that I come from a very different culture than they do. Rather than impose my cultural values on them, I embrace their culture and work at being sensitive and not offending them.

I have no idea where you come up with this 'functional paradigm' idea. If only it were that simple. LOL

As for tony snow, he is in a position where he must reflect the values of the man who employs him. Using a term that is a racial slur is just not a good way to start out, IMO. And I still want to know why a white man cares so much about Kwanzaa to go to all the trouble of writing a column criticizing it. I think we can safely assume his motives were not to promote racial harmony.

[karlrschneider]

96. I hope you didn't think I was defending Snow...far from it.

I think he's pretty much an asshole who works for an even bigger asshole.
What I -am- defending is the preservation of just one scintilla of our lingua franca, as it were, that never in its rich history had any racist overtones but due to ignorance has somehow become verboten and I take exception to that.

Here's a little vignette that relates to my point: One day early in my Junior year in high school, I walked into the classroom and noticed that everyone was staring at the blackboard with what seemed to be expressions of surprise (the teacher hadn't yet arrived)---I looked at the black (green, actually)board and saw the words writ large thereon SHIT and PISS. The class was called something like "Advanced English, as I recall)

Bear in mind this was 1958...and there was much tittering and sotto voce speculation as to who might have had the temerity to scribe such nasties in such a blatently public way. Someone, we surmised, was about to find themselves in deep shit when Mr. Guinn arrived.

And he did indeed arrive, surveyed our collective embarrassment and spake thus: "You probably are wondering who wrote those words on the board...I did!"

He then proceeded to delineate the etymology of the words, explaining how the perceived "meanings" had changed from socially acceptable to "obscene" through the evolution that causes shifts in perception and acceptability. I believe that day was also the first time I learned that an aphorism for "toilet" was indeed named after its inventor, a Mr. Crapper (true)

There is no guarantee that the "N word" will forever remain politically incorrect. Given current conditions, one could imagine it coming back into popular usage (check out the Yahoo message boards, it's commonly used there...I'm not defending it, just observing that many people have no aversion to writing it)

Whatever overlap as exists between idealism and reality is dependent on our willingness to accept it. And our determination to make them congruent...that is our greatest challenge and for many, the greatest fear.

[Igel]

72. The point being that

"It sure keeps me from inadvertently saying offensive things."

Find a new principle. This one's working about as well as much of your argumentation. Or I can take your words at face value and assume you intended to be offensive. If so, I'll ignore it. Pointless, but sometimes I'm an idealist.

There's no easy way to say this. People can be (routinely) intentionally offensive or (routinely) intentionally offended. Both sorts of folk are stupid and need no further consideration.

Then there's the middle ground, where people seek to understand what a person means, and accords the other person some sort of respect as a person. Sometimes it turns out that the person offended is mistaken; sometimes there are dialectal differences--you know, some of that evil diversity stuff freepers despise--and the best strategy is to understand a word has multiple meanings, not a stretch for most people. Sometimes offense is intended. In the middle ground, reasonable people don't (routinely) jump to unreasoned conclusions--otherwise they fall in one of the "stupid" categories mentioned above. Far too frequently people on both sides of the ideological divide show themselves to be striving hard to be in the 'stupid' category: either they say a word cannot have a meaning, or everybody (that's human, or at least that they know) knows a word obviously has a certain meaning; they ignore context, or intonation.

But I've only met very few people arrogant and self- or race-centered enough to decide that they don't need to concern themselves with either what another person actually understands or means before taking offense, *and* to celebrate this limitation as a sign of moral and intellectual superiority. They alone are sufficiently godlike not only to determine their own meanings, but those of all other beings. These benighted ones so thoroughly misunderstand language and how communication works that the linguist in me is never sure where to start. Sometimes they have PhDs, and believe that misunderstanding something from 1910 is "cutting edge"; sometimes they believe self-serving theories so cutting edge that nobody will take them seriously in 25 minutes. Frequently it turns out they routinely violate so many preconditions for communication--after all, those were first reasonably adequately described in the 1960s, and therefore 50 years in the future for these people, or are 50 years obsolete--that communication is impossible. These people don't fall in the 'stupid' category; an adult that is very, very deeply autistic is not properly called stupid.

[Solo_in_MD]

48. What stops someone from taking the "that offends me so you

should not do it" approach to gays etc. Rights to free speech trump the non-existent right not to be offended. Muslims were offended by some cartoons, the Catholics are offended by a new movie, and I am sure someone is offended by this thread. All of them need to grow some skin.

Just because someone takes offense at something does not make it wrong. The geeks also use the term tar ball, is that also offensive? How about the term Jack Tars?

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. Well I can only control myself

But I do find that I very rarely offend people. (In person, on the internet seems to be a different story LOL)

Like I said, I just try to focus more on how the other person feels and how they interpret what I say than on what I intend when I speak.

[Solo_in_MD]

63. Effective communication rests primarily with the communicator

so poking the recipient in the eye with offensive language is not a good thing. By the same token, striping the world of any all things that cause offense is wrong. Most offense in my experience it taken out of context by those who do not understand what is being said. The whole synonym for miserly thing in DC was an example.

THe other group of offense takers are the doctrinaire types. They see things only one way and anything else is offensive. Seen that on the left and the right. Guns or any mention of them is offensive to the faux progressives. Don't bring up gays to the faux christians

[philosophie_en_rose]

57. Intent matters, but it's not the only issue. Recklessness matters.

For instance, if I am in France and my mangled French sounds like a profanity - I may have offended someone. It was not my intent, but there you go. Someone is offended because of something that I did, and it's my responsibility to communicate my real intentions and to fix the problem. My subjective intent does not change the objective meaning of the word.

If I then continue to say merde, instead of mere (for example), I should not be surprised that anyone is offended. I know of and disregard the feelings of others. If I don't care, then it's not unreasonable to expect that I choose to be offensive - with all of the consequences. In addition, if I choose to never learn about other cultures and beliefs - I choose to hurt others and should not be surprised if people are upset. (which - by the way - they have the right to be).

Tar baby is a complex word, and context matters. Do I believe Tony Snow is a racist? Yes. Is it because he said one word? No. Is it because he hates Kwanzaa? No. It's because of why he uses words like Tar Baby and why he attacks Kwanzaa. It's because of his affiliation with racist publications and news organizations. It's because he's curiously interested in attacking African Americans - showing the kind of insecurity and fear that other racist people exhibit.

[butterfly77]

20. no surprise

[babylonsister]

22. Definition: to embrace a situation that's impossible to get out of.

tar baby
n.

A situation or problem from which it is virtually impossible to disentangle oneself.

[karlrschneider]

23. Well, let's just re-write the Bre'r Rabbit story and call it the

Superglue baby.

jeezus, some people...

Snow may very well -be- a racist, he's an asshole in any case but the tar baby reference in and of itself is NOT racist.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Go back and read my OP again

I also linked to an article and I said that BOTH these incidents prove he is a racist. That means both together.

[karlrschneider]

53. Nonsense. Suppose, in addition to his article, he announced

that he hates brussels sprouts. Would you employ the same "logic" and claim the vegetable aversion is evidence of racism?

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. That doesn't make any sense

You must like to argue for argument's sake. :eyes;

Here is a discussion on Daily Kos. Maybe they are more eloquent than I am
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/26/05350/6277

[johnnie]

29. So what you are saying is...

He is not only a republican..but a racist as well? No way!

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. I know it is hard to believe

LOL

[madrchsod]

45. he said "tar baby"?

jesus christ that is really, really bad.but it makes those 29 and shrinking percenters happy...as for kwanzaa ,if people want to spend their time and money why should anyone care?

[Conker]

56. Am I supposed to be surprised?We're talking about the GOP.

Having Rice and Powell in Bush's administration does not mean the Republicans aren't racist.They only placed them in his cabinet to attract African-American voters.

[The Witch]

61. Doesn't ANYONE remember the story of Brer Rabbit?!?

http://www.otmfan.com/html/brertar.htm

One day Brer Fox thought of how Brer Rabbit had been cutting up his capers and bouncing around until he'd come to believe that he was the boss of the whole gang. Brer Fox thought of a way to lay some bait for that uppity Brer Rabbit.

He went to work and got some tar and mixed it with some turpentine. He fixed up a contraption that he called a Tar-Baby. When he finished making her, he put a straw hat on her head and sat the little thing in the middle of the road. Brer Fox, he lay off in the bushes to see what would happen.



Brer Rabbit kept on asking her why she wouldn't talk and the Tar-Baby kept on saying nothing until Brer Rabbit finally drew back his fist, he did, and blip--he hit the Tar-Baby on the jaw. But his fist stuck and he couldn't pull it loose. The tar held him. But Tar-Baby, she stayed still, and Brer Fox, he lay low.

"If you don't let me loose, I'm going to hit you again," says Brer Rabbit, says he, and with that he drew back his other fist and blap--he hit the Tar-Baby with the other hand and that one stuck fast too.

The point is that he was being asked a question about reaction to the NSA program and he couldn't "hug the tar baby" by referring to the program indirectly and thus getting "stuck" into admitting its existence.

I'm no fan of Crony McSnowjob but dear lord, at least *I* got what he was on about...

[Ksec]

62. Yes, I remember and its a really old story from waaaay back

Im not going to trivialize a serious issue like racism by calling Snow a racist but he showed bad judgement knowing people were going to dissect him today.

I think we need to step back and cease with the dumb accusations. If he really hates Black people itll show itself. Im not gonna say he is because he used a word that doesnt pass some peoples test/

[MsTryska]

66. *lmao* thank you for posting that...

I was planning on posting the story myself.

[fishwax]

70. i know the story well, but it's not the final word on "tar baby"

which has been used as a racial slur for years.

[Bluebear]

71. Don't be niggardly about it.

At least that's what I expected to hear next. I know the story too, but it almost seemed like the tarbaby word tripped off his tongue soooo easily for his first press conference. Even if his intent was good, surely he should realize many people don't know the story to which you refer and to find another metaphor!

[idgiehkt]

64. I don't like this at all.

Because everyone knows most of our legal holidays are rip offs of pagan holidays, i.e. they are at least equally full of shit. So why pick on Kwanzaa, the new kid on the block. Shouldn't he focus on the old saws that have been wrecking humanity for centuries if he really wants 'accuracy in holidays' or whatever?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Golly gee whiz

a known racist who's working for a known racist should be given the benefit of the doubt, don't you think? I mean, sure it's a ridiculously antiquated term that nobody really uses, and has obvious racist implications, but sure he didn't mean it that way. It's just a coincidence. Like the word "negro." That's just spanish for black. I can't believe all these dumb negroes are so upset about this. What a bunch of faggots. And by faggots I mean british slang for cigaretttes. Duh.

:sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. LOL Are you sure you don't mean 'bundle of sticks'?

When the kids at school say 'faggot' we make them look it up in the dictionary. They are usually stunned when they see it is also a bundle of sticks. :)

[davepc]

85. as in kindling wood. as in burning at the stake.

[New Government]

80. Can We Cool It With The RACE CARD?

I said, "Call a spade a spade" a month ago at a TGI Fridays and a bunch of law students had a coniption calling me a racist. Thankfully, a black bartender told the law students to get over it and quit looking for racism everywhere. The bartender said it pisses him off, this kind of crap. It's an ages old expression that even black folks use!

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. I made that mistake too about 20 years ago

I had an African American co-worker jump all over me for saying "call a spade a spade". So I don't say it anymore. No big deal really. Like I said, I try not to offend people, either deliberately or inadvertently.

[Spider Jerusalem]

90. Their mistake, not yours.

The phrase goes back almost 500 years in English; the way I see it, if someone is such an idiot that they get offended at something that has no racial connotation whatever it's their problem for being stupid, not mine.

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. But you see, I don't care about it that much

Sure, it was overly sensitive on her part. But I chose to be the bigger person and take the high road by not offending her anymore. It wasn't that hard and it hasn't bothered me in the least. I also think I earned her respect by taking her advice to heart.

[davepc]

86. spade is a racial term? I thought it was a playing card suit.

Linguistics
The word in Old English is spaedu, cognate forms being Dutch, Swedish and Danish spade, German Spaten; also related is spoon. It is derived from the Greek spathe, a broad blade of wood or metal, and so used of the blade of an oar or sword,which was latinized as spatha, and used of a broad paddle for stirring liquid, of a piece of wood used by weavers for driving home the woof, and particularly of a broad two-edged sword military without a point, as in the title spatharius.

The Spanish playing cards had swords for the suit which we know as spades, and the suit was called espada, hence spade in English; in Dutch schoppen, which also means 'spades', not swords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spade

Whats the racial connotation for an old northern european word for a shovel?

[Dunedain]

97. ..

His use of the analogy is fitting.
They can't discuss anything in length or breadth, because they'd
become mucked up in that discussion from all the incongruities in their answers.