These Orchestrated Attacks on Leopold is a DIVERSION ....

[radio4progressives]

Perhaps an orchestrated Conspiracy (yes indeed) to divert our Collective Attention AWAY from the Domestic Spying Programs, which Arlen Specter is about to make LEGAL.

I believe that there are Democratic Officials in the Senate (and in the House) who will support Specter's attempt to cover up Bush's illegal Domestic Spying programs and their functionaries in the so called "librul media" are working to help in any way they can to divert our collective attention away from what is a REAL ISSUE.

This Rove Indictment story is NOT a Real Issue. It is a side story, and one that will have absolutely NO IMPACT on our democracy and our Constitution whether or not he is indicted.

Rove is NOT the issue! Domestic Spying is the Issue!

The plethora of threads created to defame the writer's credibility is a DIVERSIONARY tactic by those who SECRETLY SUPPORT THE DOMESTIC SPYING PROGRAMS, but dare not admit openly.

I implore everyone here to IGNORE THOSE THREADS and FOCUS on DOMESTIC SPYING NOW. There needs to be a huge outpouring of outrage against these bastards and this activity. But it needs to happen immediately.

FVCK the ROVE STORY. It doesn't matter one way or the other whether the story is true or not.

Please people! wake up! Our Constitution has been desminated and these vichy bastards whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans who support these programs are TRAITORS!

[flyarm]

1. you are exactly correct!!! Specter is the problem for all Americans!!

and the destruction of our constitutional rights!!

we should be building a campaign to all call specters office and all the dems on the committee..and we damn well better before it's too late!

fly

[porphyrian]

8. But what about S.P.E.C.T.R.E.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE

[radio4progressives]

14. omg! I was not aware of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. a Fictional Terra Org.!

thanks for posting this, i just skimmed through it quickly and it seems like fun intrigue.

[porphyrian]

21. You will be contacted by Number Eleven shortly. - n/t

[dogday]

16. Wasn't that Bond's arch enemy????

always remember that guy petting the prettiest white persian cat....

[porphyrian]

23. Yes, and that was Ernst Stavro Blofeld, its founder and leader. - n/t

[emulatorloo]

26. I thought that bald guy was Robert Luskin, at home tending his sick cat!

http://archive.salon.com.nyud.net:8090/news/feature/2005/12/15/plame_investigation/cover.jpg

[porphyrian]

27. Good God, that cat is ugly. It looks a bit like Karl Rove. - n/t

[emulatorloo]

28. You certainly couldn't get me to pet it . . .

although I might take it to the vet to be neutered.

[Kurovski]

31. C'mon...just one little tickle behind Karl's ear?

[Snivi Yllom]

42. S.P.E.C.T.R.E.? what a bunch of pussies!

Now KAOS

those are some bad asses!


http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/sounds/dontthph.wav

KAOS is currently hiring for the following positions

U-boat Crews (all categories)
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*Preference given to former quiz masters, disc jockeys, used car salesman, tv repairmen,
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You must be willing to relocate to our glorious fatherland, South America.
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KAOS is a Delaware Corporation and an equal opportunity employer.

You'll be joining an excellent bunch of guys!

Sissies Need Not Apply!

[porphyrian]

44. They can't be that tough if they are continually beaten by Maxwell Smart.

I mean, the guy's an idiot. At least Bond intentionally beats S.P.E.C.T.R.E., for Pete's sake.

;)

[radio4progressives]

13. I made a call this morning to his office

and his staffer hung up on me.. I reported in some details about this call in another thread (but i don't remember which one right now)...

I encouraged others to avoid saying the things i mentioned... (grin) but to voice their concerns about his attempt to cover up for this administrations illegal machinations. I also mentioned that i was from California, which i'm sure their caller id feature (should they have that) would have indicated. I think i should have stated that I was from PA and only calling from California on a business trip, but i never think of making up stories when i'm calling a Congress Critter, i generally tell them exactly what's on my mind, hence the hang up.

[watrwefitinfor]

2. K & R for a sane voice. n/t

[MrModerate]

3. Keep in mind, however, that most 'Murricans support . . .

NSA domestic spying -- UNLESS YOU TELL THEM IT'S ILLEGAL!

If Specter gets a bill through that legalizes how Schimpanksi and General Turgidson have been carrying on, then the people won't mind so much.

9/11 seems to have caused 'Murricans' spines to dissolve, while leaving them upright.

Peculiar and sad.

[radio4progressives]

17. Ever since 9/11, so called Moderate Radio Talk Show hosts

have promulgated the notion that domestic spying, data collecting/mining and digital (iris and other means)identification and tracking devices was A-OK with them ... "If you don't have anything to hide, what's the problem" meme...

so easy to knock down, but logic and reason is censured or rediculed altogether.

[5X]

4. .

nevermind

[The Magistrate]

5. What Orchestrated Attacks, Ma'am?

Mr. Leopold made a public claim some days ago; it seems to be failing to prove out. Naturally people will comment on this, particularly since what he claimed had occured is something many people very much want to see happen, and have a reasonable expectation will happen.

[radio4progressives]

20. If that's how you want to see it... the attacks began almost immediately

As I've mentioned earlier, I'm personally not interested in the Rove story - i think it's a non-issue in the larger scheme of things. I understand a lot of people think a possible indictment of Rove is somehow going to save the day for the November 06 elections for Dems, but those people are sadly misinformed. (No thanks to many so called "Liberal" Journalists and their Gatekeepers)

I believe any indictment of Rove while this administration outrageous illegal activity continues, may as well not ever occur, because Rove's organizational and strategy activities will remain unfettered regardless and that point is never made by those attacking the messenger. Which i believe is deliberate.

It serves the purpose of a lot of corrupt politicians as well as the fascists agenda to divert our attention from what the hell is really going on - just count the postings/threads created by these gatekeepers - go ahead and count them.

Then say to yourself it isn't actually an orchestrated diversion...

i don't think you'll convince yourself that's not the case once seen with sober look, especially in the context of overall events going on right this moment.

[The Magistrate]

32. Quite The Contrary, Ma'am

There were items in Mr. Leopold's report worth a raised eyebrow at first glance, and naturally some persons responded to these immediately. The fellow has a career with certain clouds about it, after all. There are a great number of people who read the posts on this site, and an even greater number who resort to left sites on the internet in general for their news and for fellowship and even diversion: this is quite sufficient to guarantee that a great many people will be moved to comment one way or another on a startling claim of fact, and it is hardly necessary to postulate an "orchestrated effort" in the occurance.

[radio4progressives]

38. Again, I've been watching this sort of thing for years...

I've seen the charges posited that Leopold has some sort of "history" of inaccurate reporting, but i have not seen those reports in question cited. Also, it is of some interest and follows a similar pattern of attacks against Raw Story and their writers on minor points at issue, completely blown out of the water in an open and obvious attempt to discredit their reporting in general.

Turns out these attacks came from "The Competition". I suspect the same thing maybe at work against TruthOut, and/or Jason Leopold. Time may tell. Or it may not. I've read reports from other sources that report that Larry Johnson and Joe Wilson has verified the same story.

Personally, I have not placed a vested interest in this story being true or not, because i personally don't believe an indictment of Rove will have any impact on anything of significance and import, simply because i believe he will never ever have to face justice in the end.

Again, the vaguely asserted claim (by many others)that Leopold has a "checkered history" or a "cloud over his head" seemingly referring to his personal life, doesn't speak to the veracity of his reporting in general, or this story itself.

Now if these attacks cited a list of misreported stories that Leopold got substantively wrong (by a signficant degree - like the essential facts) they should be offered up and let the reader decide as to his reliability in general, imo. Let the facts speak for itself - people will learn to rely on his reporting as often as they rely on the MSM.

Personally, even those sources I often go to for news, information and analysis i read with a certain degree of skepticism, and consume with a critical eye or ear - simply because too few generally have the entire story, whatever it's about.

Even Seymour Hersch has had somethings "wrong" now and then - recall that second set of abu ghraib videos and pictures which according to Hersch were supposed to be released to the public shortly after he reported on it - it was a sure thing - that never happened.

A few months ago, a set of "new" photos were released vis a vis FOIA and court orders but that was nearly three years later.

"Things" come into play to interfere with the desimination of facts, and we have a long history of this sort of thing in all sorts of forms, from charachterization assasinations to actual assassinations.

nothing new here.

[The Magistrate]

39. Mr. Leopold, Ma'am

Claimed to have in his possession a document he could not produce on request of his editor, leading to the not unreasonable suspicion it had never been in his possession, and may not ever have existed. The latter items are not proved by his inability to produce it, of course, but it is something people are entitled to consider in assessing his veracity. His personal life is of no interest to me whatever, and my reference was simply to his journalistic career.

[radio4progressives]

40. Just for clarity...

I intended to make clear that others (not yourself)had made claims to his character & lifestyle.

Are the documents you reference related to the Rove indictment story or some other report?

[The Magistrate]

41. The Reference, Ma'am

Is to the episode with "Salon". He has also parted company from two print news organizations, in one case amid charges concerning factual accuracy, and had some difficulty with a publisher over whether statements in a book could withstand a law-suit. These things might well move a reasonable person with no particular axe to grind to view him as a dubious item. My point in this matter is simply that, as there are grounds for doubt, persons should be free express their doubts, and express them without facing charges they are taking part in some nefarious plot when they do so. At this point, it is not clear to me whether he is telling the truth in this instance or not, and all that is clear is that time will tell. It has, however, long been my habit to correct for my own inclinations and desires by being particularly careful when it comes to accepting as true things I very much want to be so, when the evidence is conflicted. It has proved a wise policy many times in the past, and kept me out of a good deal of trouble on occassion....

[radio4progressives]

43. Point well taken...

and good advice. Time will eventually tell, it will be interesting if the facts of the matter ever really does surface.

[canichelouis]

6. Yes, it's a diversion alright

Foolish

[katty]

7. Brian Ross/ABC on spygate Interv Democracy Now

more: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/16/145201

This revelation comes on the heels of last week’s disclosure that three of the country’s largest telecom companies handed over millions of phone call records to help the National Security Agency build the world’s largest database, comes a new revelation.

We’re joined now by the ABC News reporter who broke this story – someone who may well be a target of this new phase of government monitoring himself. Brian Ross is the Chief Investigative reporter for ABC News. He joins us on the line from New York.

Brian Ross, Chief Investigative Correspondent for ABC News.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RUSH TRANSCRIPT
This transcript is available free of charge. However, donations help us provide closed captioning for the deaf and hard of hearing on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution.
Donate - $25, $50, $100, more...

AMY GOODMAN: We now are joined by ABC News investigative reporter who broke the story, someone who may well be a target of this new phase of government monitoring, himself. Brian Ross is the investigative reporter for ABC News. He joins us on the line from here in New York. Welcome to Democracy Now!

BRIAN ROSS: Thank you very much.

AMY GOODMAN: It’s good to have you with us. Well, tell us what you've learned.

BRIAN ROSS: Well, to start with, we were warned -- Rich Esposito and I were warned last week that the government was aware of who we were calling and that we should quickly get new cell phones that didn't come back to our names. An insider told us, a friendly insider who did not necessarily think this is a good idea. It was clear to us that somehow the government knew our records. We were told our phone calls weren't being recorded, but just who we were calling. Now, in terms of trying to track down insiders at the government who are providing us with information, that's really about all they need. That's how they essentially tracked down Mary McCarthy at the C.I.A. and got her in a polygraph and fired her based on who she was making contact with. This, for us, is quite chilling. The F.B.I. then, Amy, last night put out a statement essentially acknowledging that they are tracking phone calls of reporters. The person I talked to said, “Well, it may be more like backtracking.” But under this administration, what used to be hard to do, in going after reporters and their phone records, is now easy.

[radio4progressives]

25. Interesting That isn't being discussed by those attacking Leopold

not a word from that camp about this.

Thanks by the way for posting the transcript, people really ought to listen to this segment on Democracy Now! which i did this morning but anyone can listen at anytime by going to the website. a very important story, critical to how our democracy was/is desimated. ON OUR WATCH!

[k_jerome]

9. looks to me like the BS story...

was a diversion.

[MelissaB]

10. You are right. We do need to focus on the domestic spying programs.

We can wait to see how the Leopold pans out.

[madmusic]

11. A Rove special, with fries n/t

[Peace Patriot]

12. radio4progressives, I understand your impatience and your cry for focus

on Congress stripping us of our rights, but I fear we have no power to stop whatever they are doing. Our power, and our sovereignty as a people, was taken away when they took away our right to vote, during the 2002-2004 period, with the "Hack America's Vote Act." There is no reason for them to listen to us, since they now have guaranteed election of Bushites and warmongers.

We now have private, Bushite corporations 'counting' all the votes with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code and virtually no audit/recount controls. That's what the "Help America Vote for Bush" Act did--a bill officially called the "Help America Vote Act" (HAVA), which was engineered by the biggest crooks in Congress, Tom Delay, Bob Ney and Christopher Dodd, as a $4 billion boondoggle for electronics corporations with very close ties to the Bush junta. They've bribed and bullied election officials across the country to install these extremely hackable, insecure and unreliable electronic voting systems, with industry doing secret 'testing' of the machines, and no one--NO ONE!--not even our secretaries of state--permitted to review the secret vote tabulation code.

Our right to vote is the means by which we exercise our sovereignty. It is gone. Our elections are now NON-TRANSPARENT and UNVERIFIABLE almost everywhere in the country. It is the biggest and most silent and invisible coup that has ever occurred in the history of governments.

THIS is the problem that we MUST address. Until we restore TRANSPARENT elections, we, the people, have NO POWER.

I'm not saying don't try to pressure Congress--not at all. We CAN try to INFLUENCE what happens. That worked on Social Security--but that's about the only thing it's worked on. And they've likely destroyed Social Security anyway, with their $9 TRILLION budget deficit.

However, these fascists and warmongers DO have to reach a certain level of real voter support in order to be Diebolded into office. They can't just manufacture elections out of whole cloth (--not yet anyway*). What I'm saying is that, as long as Bushite corporations are controlling NON-TRANSPARENT elections, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. They will do whatever they like, on almost all issues, with no accountability.

That's what's happening, is it not? Think about it. WHY is that happening? WHY is their no accountability? WHY can Bush get away with egregious law-breaking, and writing disclaimers on Congressional bills that he signs, that these laws DON'T APPLY TO HIM AND HIS JUNTA?!

HOW CAN THIS BE?

It's pretty obvious to me. This is the CONSEQUENCE of NON-TRANSPARENT elections.

As for Rove, I agree that the attack on Jason Leopold and Truthout is a distraction and I suspect that it is a Freeper operation. It is utterly absurd to blame THEM because Fitzgerald is not fast enough in indicting Rove. I'm 99% certain they will be vindicated, but even if they've been "Rathered" (set up with disinformation), it is absolutely disgraceful the way some DUers have assaulted them.

The bigger picture, re Rove and Plamegate, is this: Clearly, the people at the top of this junta--Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld--have committed treason, and their seconds-in-command have committed perjury and obstruction of justice to cover up for them and for themselves. Patrick Fitzgerald is trying to make the system work--trying to hold people accountable, the way they should be. He is a patient prosecutor, and a brilliant one, who uses the classic strategy of sweating the lower perps to get at the bigger ones. And he, the judge and the Grand Jury are convinced that this is a grave matter of national security, not just any crime. Fitzgerald said so in his press conference on Libby. The judge said so, explicitly, in giving Fitzgerald wide latitude on the handling of secret documents.

So it is no small matter. It is NOT a side-show. It is matter of whether or not ANY segment of our government is working. CAN these people be held accountable, for anything, by anybody?

Stay tuned.

But, meanwhile, we most certainly should be performing our patriotic duties, prime among them, a) yelling loud and long at the worst excesses of this Congress and this junta, especially on our Constitutional rights; and b) throwing Diebold, ES&S and all election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor'!

------------------------------

* Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy! Title: "Poll Shock" 11/24/05)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col321.htm

[radio4progressives]

34. I agree on all points...

except that, in the end Rove will not really ever be held accountable in my view imo. Even if he is actually indicted! I think Hell would Freeze over before this administration and his court appointed cronies ever have this come to any meaningful end with regard to actual accountability.

I certainly agree with the degree of import on all other matters you raised here - we are in unanimity and solidarity !

[5X]

15. I share your passion for throwing out the current regime...

but pointing out any and all distractions and
misdirections could be a part of what is needed.

Just suppose JL has been duped, is a willing conspirator,
or whatever, it can only help if we figure that out now
as opposed to later.

[radio4progressives]

35. Supposing Legal Sleight of Hand or a Disinformation Campaign is at play?

Only with the passage of time along with more/better information - and even with that, it will simply amount to a diversion to what is going on right this very minute with regard to the furthering and permanent desimation of our Rights.

This attack mode on a writer on a story that has a certain intrigue, is only useful to our opponents - it is certainly NOT useful to what is actually important right now.

No single individual currently occupying a position in this White House will ever meet with true Justice if Specter's bill is passed. Whether we are talking about Rove's role, or Cheney's in the outing of a CIA operative, or the NSA Domestic Spying programs, if Specter's bill is allowed to pass, none of this about Rove's indictment will have any meaning whatsoever. He'll be able to continue his role as a political operative completely unfettered because he knows he will never have to meet justice. He'll be pardoned before that will ever happen.

[Cocoa]

18. are you saying Leopold is in on the diversion?

:tinfoilhat:

[radio4progressives]

36. No. I'm saying the plethora of attacks on Leopold is a diversion.

[democrank]

19. BRAVO !!!!!!

Rove will either get it or he won`t. Maybe Thursday, maybe never. It`s out of our control. Let`s not take any more bait, but instead concentrate on an issue we CAN do something about....NSA spying and the loss of our freedoms. It`s a deadly serious matter that should activate each and every one of us.

[symbolman]

22. I think that Leopold

was a diversion because all of the people who refuse to accept reality, do some simple research into his past and sit here and carp about and attack people who question Leopold's writings made the STINK..

All they had to say was "Let's wait and see, I BELIEVE Leopold."

But instead they dog piled on anyone who dissagreed and made it a freakshow.

Anyone who believes Leopold need attention, some I think may have Ooomphaloomphas living under their beds, but that makes ME a BAD MAN.

I complained about all the threads on him, suport him support him over and over as disrupting to NSA stuff and other important things we needed to deal with here and got SKINNED Alive for even "doubting" Leopold, it became all about HIM.

We have only ourselves to blame.. but don't listen to me, I only bet 1000 DU donation that he Target Letter Leopold stated as FACT as being delivered on April 26th to be false.. then WIll Pitt told me to shove that up my ass, now that's a nice reasoned debate. :)

[stop the bleeding]

24. It's cool

I think everyone interested in the points/specifics that you bring would do well to read H2O Mans essay for today.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/H2O%20Man/30 ;)

I know that people on DU may not communicate the best, but I feel that everyone is trying for the ultimate goal of taking back our Country from these traitors.

Peace.

[symbolman]

29. H2OMan is a wonderful Human being

I wish I could rise to his level of conscioness, but I have to disagree on some points, as for not bringin up their PAST, there's an old saying, "Those who do not study History are DOOMED to repeat it.."

Leopold is repeating his history, that's the nature of the Universe as well, that's how they track people, people are creatures of habit, and this is showing the "habit" that Leopold has for histronics, PR, self branding, blaming others (the sources), and running with a story before it's ready..

By studying the past we learn from mistakes.. there are people I know that when I see them I cross the street, because I KNOW from their past - some of them are drug addicts that I will get sucked into their vaccum and wake up to find my TV gone since I felt sorry for them and let them spend the night on my couch..

Trust is something that is EARNED, and Leopold is again not EARNING that trust.. is what he has done AGAIN, NOW a Past action and we should just get over it?

He is damaging the entire Blogosphere, his RUMOR caused hundreds of hard hitters in the Dem party to stand and cheer when they heard Rove had been Indicted when he hadn't, this is all the right needs to kick the crap out of us in Elections, that we are DELUSIONAL.

As for much of what H2OMan writes, sure, yes, all good points to act civilized and keep discussions in the range of debate.. but I see NO middle ground here.. if Leopold states something as a hard FACT, and Demands respect as a "journalist" and then blows it big time, then HE alone is responsible for his actions, and is not to be trusted ONCE AGAIN.

Personally I think he needs to seek counseling as he has inflictions that need to be dealt with, if we ignored the past he wouldn't get any help at all for past transgressions that show he's Bi Polar, which has been admitted to by him and others.

I could feel sorry for him, but he's gotten too squishy, and some things ARE true or not.

And a happy Birthday to H2Oman, even if belated :)

[troubleinwinter]

33. I have seen 'dog piling' from BOTH sides.

I don't have an opinion. I will wait and see. Only seems fair, in MY book.

[fooj]

30. Agreed.

Treasonous, rat bastard. This is NOT George Bush's America. It is OUR America.

Arlen---you are a traitor to your country. That, Mr.Specter, is what history will judge you as...a treasonous, spineless traitor. Pathetic.

[robertpaulsen]

37. No, no, no. The Pentagon video is a DIVERSION from the Leopold attacks!

C'mon everyone, stop analyzing that 5 year old government video snippet and let's get back to the important task of SHITTING ON LEOPOLD & PITT!!! YEEARRRGGHH!

:sarcasm: