Venezuela to sell American jets to Iran? Anybody know

[leftyladyfrommo]

anything about this site? Kind of an interesting notion.

Venezuela, now our enemy, to sell our own jets to Iran. This is probably outrageous enough to be true.

http://www.breitbart.com/new/2006/05/16/D8HL07900.html

[davepc]

1. pointless grandstanding

Without spare parts fighter jets quickly wear out and become unusable.

Venezuela gets spare parts from the US, and continues to do so.

Iran wouldn't get those parts.

Unless Chavez has a way for Iran to acquire F-16 engines and avionics, he's full of it.

Also, Iran could buy much newer and better planes from the Russians or Chinese (and a maintenance contract that would be honored).

[leftyladyfrommo]

2. How old are F-16 fighters?

Are they ancient?

[davepc]

5. They were delevered from 1982-1984.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article25.html

In May 1982, the government of Venezuela signed an agreement to buy 18 Block 15 F-16A's and six Block 15 F-16B's to replace the fleet of Mirage III interceptors and Mirage 5 ground-attack aircraft serving with the Fuerza Aéra Venezolana. This purchase was under the Peace Delta Foreign Military Sales program.

However, the Venzuelan order was not approved immediately because the US government wanted to sell Venezuela the F-16/79 (a slightly degraded F-16 version developed for export orders) instead. In 1983, the US government abandoned its hopes of selling the F-16/79, and finally approved the sale of the F100-powered F-16s to Venezuela

The FAV accepted its first aircraft in September 1983. FAV F-16s wear an attractive green/brown color scheme, with the insignia of the Aviacion de Combate (Combat Aviation) on the tail and roundels on the wings. A four-digit serial is painted on the fuselage just below the tail fin.

...

Of the original 24 aircraft that Venezuela bought, three have crashed: the first two, due to engine failure, and the second one, an F-16B, crashed during a maneuver on an air show at Base Aerea El Libertador, where Grupo 16 is based. In this accident, the first and second commander of the squadron where killed. The Venezuelan Air Force was looking for US government approval to replace these two aircraft and was planning to overhaul and update the remaining 22 airframes. At the end of October 1997, the US government approved the sale of the two F-16s, as well as an upgrade packet including the F-100-PW-220E. However, the purchase of the two attrition airframes has been halted until further notice.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. delete

[Caution]

7. About 15 years old most likely

And no longer produced for use by the US military (though still produced for export) Decent article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16

[flamin lib]

4. Could get spare parts from Pakistan. Pakistan & Iran are on

friendly terms and the US is in no position to cut off Pakistan's parts supply.

[davepc]

10. Why would Pakistan jeapordize the airworthiness of its own fleet of planes

to keep the Iranian ones flying?

[flamin lib]

11. They'd just buy more and make a small profit off Iran.

The US is in no position to question the quantity of parts or the re-supply program with Pakistan.

[davepc]

14. You don't just "buy more" like going to the local pep boys

[flamin lib]

20. Actually you can and the foreign arms market is wide open.

There are so many countries buying military hardware from us that it's impossible to keep track of who buys what for what program.

The pentagon can't account for a third of it's spending and isn't trying. They've lost $3 trillion over the last 5 years. Entire tank battalions have disappeared. Think a dozen jet engines would be noticed if it were inconvenient?

[Solo_in_MD]

15. Actually they are

Any spike in replacement parts would be noticed. Lets not forget the onsite tech reps either.

[flamin lib]

19. Yeah, and there's no domestic surveillance and no under the

table supply lines or anything like that.

Besides, there's always reverse engineering. Saddam had the largest manufacturing plants for HUEY choppers after the US cut him off and before GW-I.

The US can't afford to jeopardize the Pakistan relationship over a few jet parts.

[BrotherBuzz]

13. State department says no spare parts for Venezuela as per arms ban

Ms Hironimus (state department spokeswoman) said the arms ban would apply to new equipment and spare parts. She said Venezuela would feel the impact when it wanted to buy parts for its planes.

http://indiamonitor.com/news/readNews.jsp?ni=11638

[LoZoccolo]

22. Well yeah, that's what he does; he's a demagogue.

He's also fond of telling people we're going to attack him. Oh wait, now he's provoking us to.

Bush* of South America he is.

[ladjf]

24. Venezuela claims that U.S. is blocking the sale of F15 parts.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1759656&C=america



At least some U.S. sources say that this is not true.

[Caution]

3. Looks like a pretty accurate news report to me

AP, and using government officials as sourcing with reference to specific individuals. The Iran thing is a throw away line though.

Fact is this is an empty threat. Iranian pilots are not trained in the F-16 and would need a few months at a minimum to get up to speed on the planes, not to mention the problems they would have with parts and maintenance.

[AlamoDemoc]

6. Greg Palast said in an interview with Democracy now

that Venezuela claims it has more oil than Saudi Arabia...and that the upcoming Opec meeting would be interest to watch.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. Does anyone really know how much oil they have?

And we are making them absolutely furious at us because?

[AlamoDemoc]

12. Here's what Mr. Palast said:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/15/1334249

"As you'll see in next week's Harper's coming out, which is basically an excerpt from the book, Hugo Chavez on June 1st is going to ask OPEC to officially recognize that he has more oil than Saudi Arabia. This is a geopolitical earthquake. And the inside documents from the U.S. Department of Energy, which we have in the book and in Harper's, say, yeah, he's got more oil than Saudi Arabia."

[flamin lib]

8. I recall reading the Venezuela negotiated an arrangement

with Russia and China. Sort of a trade/mutual defense thing. May buy Russian migs for lot's less than the F-16s just to piss of George.

Have we cut off spare parts to Venezuela yet? If so the F-16s are worthless.

[salinen]

17. Chavez is starting to make

mistakes in judgement due to his hatred for Pissypants. This is so grade school.

[LoZoccolo]

21. Well that would echo his apologists...

...who started doing the same a long time ago.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Delicious irony. Wish we could sell them the SOA.

And, throw in Lockheed, General Dynamics, and the rest of the "Masters of War".

[ladjf]

23. The US has refused to sell parts to Venezuela. So, the logical

thing to do would be to sell them.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Houston Chronicle article on the F-16's

May 17, 2006, 12:15AM
Chavez adviser threatens to sell old F-16s to Iran
Venezuela takes its own shot after U.S. institutes ban on arms sales


By PATTY REINERT
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON - U.S.-Venezuelan relations continued to deteriorate Tuesday as the South American nation threatened to sell all of its U.S.-made F-16 jet fighters to one of the United States' biggest adversaries — Iran.

The move was the latest in a tit for tat between the Bush administration and Venezuela's leftist president, Hugo Chavez. It came one day after the State Department banned arms sales to Venezuela in response to what a spokesman said was the Chavez government's failure to cooperate in the war on terror.

Venezuelan Gen. Alberto Muller, a senior adviser to Chavez, told the Associated Press in Caracas that he would recommend that Venezuela sell the 21 jets to a third country, possibly Iran.

However, Defense Minister Adm. Orlando Maniglia later said a sale of the jets wasn't in the works and Chavez "has not given any order" as to what to do with them, AP reported.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/3868379.html

[radwriter0555]

26. Why is Venezuela a US enemy? And why can't they sell anything they WANT

to iran?

Iran has the right to defend herself from attackers.

Venezuela has the right to sell anything they damn well please to whomever they please.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. One word: oil.