So if Alito is confirmed it is the Democrats fault?

[WI_DEM]

That is what many posters seem to be saying. No matter that the White House, The Congress and the Judiciary are led by Republicans. Forget the fact that probably 80% of Democrats will vote against Alito. Of course the 20% who vote for him are as wrong as can be and on this issue they should line up with the 80% who oppose Alito, but unlike the Republican party we don't have a party which always marches to the beat of one drum. We NEVER have. Many people think that the conservative Democrats or "Bush-lites" as some call them are a new phenomenon, but FDR had to deal with the Southern Democrats when he was president and they were a heck of alot more conservative then than they are now--not to mention racist. The Democratic party has always been a big tent party with many diverse factions and that is why Will Rogers once famously said, "I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a Democrat."

So what is the answer? Leave the party? if that is what you feel you must do--fine--it's a free country. But I've seen this party really come around in the past year. With Howard Dean at the DNC. Howard Reid in the Senate and Nancy Pelosi in the House. Yes, they can't win on every issue. But I've seen a fighting spirit that I've not seen in a long time. Heck, look at what Russ Feingold just recently accomplished on the so-called "Patriots Act." Five years ago he was the lone voice who opposed it.

What we can do is to keep the pressure on for our leaders to continue to work to do right and then work like hell to elect Democrats in '06 in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Montana, Tennessee, Rhode Island, Missouri and give us a majority in the Senate where we can have more leverage and stop people from Alito from even being nominated.

Then work like hell to nominate a progressive democrat in '08. Just my two-cents.

[DURHAM D]

1. No ! It is the (non) voter's fault. n/t

[slackmaster]

6. AMEN to that!

Shame on the people who allowed Bush to win (or get such a close result the election could be "stolen", or whatever) through their inaction.

[emulatorloo]

13. "I just don't know if I can vote for Kerry. He is not X enough for me!!!!"

Those are the words I remember from DU'ers whenever Bush nominates another judge.

Maybe the original speakers "held their noses" and voted for him, but perhaps those they influenced did not.

[msgadget]

16. ...those they influenced?

If more people voted perhaps the election would've turned out differently. And, those who didn't probably don't go out of their way to read or research politics, else their butts would've been at the polls voting for the least worst like the rest of us. To say people speaking against a candidate ruined the election is the same as the president saying criticizing him strengthens the terr'ists.

The biggest problem I have with the right is that strong partisanship thing - my party, right or wrong. I don't think people on the left expect that. Blind partisanship has already ruined this country.

Anyway, no, it's not the dems on the committee's fault if Alito is confirmed.

Edit for spelling (pole/poll)

[NYCGirl]

2. Yep. "Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" is very popular

these days.
:evilgrin:

[onehandle]

3. I agree. nt

[TheFarseer]

4. blaming democrats is just stupid IMO

If they filibuster, they will just nuclear option and this time there will be no gang of 14 to stop it.

[MadHound]

9. Then that is when the Dems should take it to the people

And show them what a fascist gang of bastards Bushco is. Oh, and further they can shut down Congress with procedural manuevers.

What the fuck good is a filibuster if you're not going to use it when it is needed? About as much good as tits on a boar.

[TheFarseer]

22. I admit it's a catch 22

Sorry but they are holding all the cards until and unless we can convince people to vote for us.

The fact is, if they really want Alito, they can get him. How far they will go and how far we will make them go and how bad we both look doing it is another matter. I have a strong feeling if both sides start pushing on this, we will end up looking like that bad guys. Just my opinion. . . . . . . . . . . . .

[MadHound]

23. Rather defeatist attitude there friend

We have enough votes to hold a filibuster. And if we have our leaders clearly and consisely state why Alito is bad for this country, I think that in the current discontent with all things Bush, the public will listen, and not be upset about a filibuster. In fact, most of the time people think that if the Senate is shut down, that's a good thing, no harm can be done.

If the 'Pugs try the nuke option, again, take it to the people. People are becoming increasingly sick of Bushco and his Neocon thugs. Delay, Abramoff, NSA, Iraq war, people are ready for a change. If the 'Pugs pull out the nuke, they do so at their own peril, especially since midterms are next year, and most voters' memories are long.

What's the alternative, do nothing? I'd rather we go down fighting and lose than not fight at all.

[killbotfactory]

11. What's the point of stopping the nuclear option, if we get Alito?

Wasn't the point to stop assholes like him from getting on the bench?

[G_j]

14. exactly

also, that way the Republicans win through threats.
not good..

[bullimiami]

19. no way. force them to go nuclear. let them destroy the senate if thats

what they are determined to do. get it all out in the open.

[MadHound]

5. I don't think that people are saying that Alito's confirmation

Would be the fault of the Dems. What I'm seeing here is that they want the Dems to filibuster and to fight, and by God they should. What more perfect time to hit this president? His poll numbers are way down, he is embroiled in multiple scandals, his war is not being supported, and he is bringing up a nominee who believes in unlimited Executive Power. They damn well should fight, even if they lose, it is the effort that is the thing to many, including myself.

But instead, it looks like the Dems are back to their old trick, roll over and piss on themselves like whipped dogs, all in a vain effort to please Bushco, their corporate masters, or both.

Alito is a turning point for many. He presents a clear and present danger to this country, and if the Dems let him in without a fight, then yes, they are just a complacent in the following fascism as the 'Pugs are, for they would have had a chance to save this country, yet refused to take it.

[mmonk]

7. No, but if they don't fight it

they are a part of it.

[quinnox]

8. Also agree

I see a resurgence of the Dem party with Dean, Reid and Pelosi rather than a defeated one right now. I think the Dems are on the right track and getting better and stronger as time goes on and the repubs are dragged down by scandal after scandal.

Delay is fallen, a longtime nemesis, who knows what repub might be next?

In fact, if the Dems can win one Congress section back this year which is looking more optimistic to me then it will be a shattering blow in my opinion to the Repub party.

[PWRinNY]

10. No

I think it's ridiculous to blame the dems if Alito gets confirmed. I sure do hope they stand up and give a good fight though. We elect them to speak for us. That's what they ought to do. They're in office because the majority of their constituents put them there. I understand they need to try to represent ALL their constituents, but that just can't be done. They need to stand up and fight for the beliefs and principles that got them elected in the first place. Win or lose, they need to fight.

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. Just the fact that you are able to predict that 20% of "Dems" will betray.

...the rest of us, should be sufficient answer to your question. And anyone here can probably guess the names of those 20%. They're the ones that vote wrong on EVERYTHING. They're the DLC posers who are no more Democratic than Josef Fucking Stalin, yet get away with using this party's name, and money, for their own goddamned sick agendas.

As for your idea, that we just laugh this one off and move on to elect progressives, how the Hell do you do that? When the Pukes own the media. When the Pukes own the fraudulent voting machines. When the Pukes own the courts which are supposed to settle such legal dillemas. When the Pukes (through the DLC) own the Democratic Party itself.

Tell me how that leaves any options to fight this fascism. Aside from the one Thomas Jefferson mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. It might be time to fertilize the trees of Liberty.

[TahitiNut]

15. The apologetics for cowardice are always plentiful.

I'm certain that many argued against the Declaration of Independence because "it just can't work." I think the reason may people don't bother to vote is because they don't see courage in the face of long odds. After all, if it was "safe" it wouldn't be called courageous, would it?

My patience with the apologetics of kowtowing and retreating is running thin. After all, that's the "logic" of the last 25-30 years that's permitted fascism to grow like a cancer in our body politic. Until good people stand up and do absolutely everything they can do, whether it's foreseen to "work" or not, whether or not it wins the latest popularity contest, true justice and equity in this nation will remain a myth.

[Walt Starr]

17. It depends upon how he's confirmed

If he's confirmed because the REpukes went "Nukeyalar", then no, it's not the Democrat's fault.

If' he's confirmed because enough Democrats voted in favor of cloture, then yes, it's the Democrat's fault.

[bullimiami]

18. if there are 40+ votes against alito and they dont fillibuster.

then, yes, it is there fault.

if they have the votes, refuse to fillibuster, and then just put in the symbolic "nay" when they had the ability to fight it? what the hell good is that.

[Innocent Smith]

20. nuclear option not sure to pass

I think that there are a handful of Republicans that will not vote to elminate the filibuster. Probably enough to give at least a 50/50 chance of the nuclear option does not pass. If you don't filibuster you basically have a 100% chance of losing.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. No, not at all. But the Democrats have to mount

a filibuster or lose their base. They really don't have an option here.

My bet is there will be a filibuster, the Repos will go nuke option and install Alito.

The Dems will lose the battle (due to minority status) yet win the war because they stood up and faught for what is right.