Of Stars & Bars and Tarbabies . . .

[flamin lib]

The English language is the most fluid and dynamic language in the world. Words are added daily to the language and existing words change meaning. Unlike the French we don’t have a language agency to decide if “computer” is a masculine or feminine noun.

The study of Linguistics (the history of words) and Semantics (the meaning of words) were the most rewarding of courses in my liberal arts education. Unlike engineers who learned to build things I learned to think.

Words have history, context and usage. Usage and context change meaning.

“Tarbaby” has a venerable history, but usage and context has changed its meaning. As a part of Southern Folklore it was a part of wonderful southern folk story. Unfortunately a great many co-opted the story character as a derogatory term for all dark skinned people.

Like the Stars and Bars battle flag of the Confederacy it has history but does it deserve the respect of current usage? I don’t think so. Any currency it once had has been ruined by the usurpation of its history and its usage as a belittling term.

So, to those who are offended that “tarbaby’s” history is being ignored and those who take umbrage at the word I ask, “Can’t we all just get along?”

Hey, what’s the big effin’ (added to the Random House Unabridged Dictionary a few years back) deal?

[Boomer]

1. Slippery slope

It's so easy to slip on all that fluid!

[Occulus]

6. Not if the slope is covered with tar.

:D

[bryant69]

2. I always liked the Bre'er Rabbit stories

Even given the racist undertones to many of them - it's hard to seperate out what is a good yarn from the trappings around it.

I have read an article arguing that the Bre'er Rabbit cycle of stories might have been a bit more subversive though. Consider, the Rabbit, the weak creature, constantly triumphs over the Bear and the Fox (strong creatures). Sometimes in brutal ways.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Mythsaje]

3. I recommend Neil Gaiman's "Anazi Boys"

for a slightly different perspective on these old stories.

"They're Anazi stories."

;)

[bryant69]

4. I've heard that

I've also heard that they were taken from the Renard cycle of stories in Europe - personlly I suspect all of these theories are true.

Remix Culture.

I do need to read Anazi boys - loved American Gods.

[Mythsaje]

8. I've actually never read American Gods

though one of my editors REALLY recommended I do.

I listened to Anazi Boys and loved it. It takes a lot of from West African and island folklore.

[MrModerate]

12. American Gods is, unfortunately . . .

Only OK -- great concept, decent research, but weakly written with flat and unconvincing characters and a laboring plot.

[Mythsaje]

15. I had the feeling I'd actually read it

and had been totally unimpressed, but I'm still not sure. If a book doesn't work at all for me, I tend to forget it completely.

One of these days I'll pick up a copy and see if this is the case.

I really enjoyed Anazi Boys, though. :shrug: Go figure.

[flamin lib]

7. They weren't "racist" at the time. They were folk tales told in

the dialect of Southern Negroes of the time. Much like Aesop's fables they had a moral instruction.

I had the privilege of being lectured by Dr. Mason Brewer during my Masters program. He had to be 90 at the time but could command a classroom like nobody I've ever seen. He limped into the classroom with the aid of a hand carved walking stick (as opposed to a cane) and sat behind the desk. With a slight flourish he brought the stick up at right angles to his body and placed it firmly on the desk with an audible noise.

Silence. Absolute silence.

He then held the class spellbound with the history of his collection of folklore by working the cotton fields of the South and recording the folklore of field hands by memory and transcribing them at night after a full day in the fields. A black man with a Master's degree in the '40s and '50 chopping cotton to record a heritage that seems to be lost.

It is a shame that such works are co-opted by bad usage but they are. Perhaps someday we will get beyond the perversion and embrace the wealth and heritage of our past and the people who overcame slavery and bigotry.

[MichiganVote]

5. Ok, I admit, I'm not into the new words 'ho' and 'bling' but what's wrong

with the term tarbaby? In my usage it's meaning was resticted to a description of a very sticky situation. I know of its association with southern folklore, Uncle Remus and the like, but in my family "culture" it only pertained to a messy circumstance. Not to people or characters.

Huh. Learn something everyday. (Scratch and shake head in wonder)

[flamin lib]

9. Well, the terms Ho and Bling seem to offend some people,

so why not Tarbaby offending others? Particularly when it has been used as a derogatory term for people with dark skin.

I lament the loss of history and folklore, but the cost of offending a large group of people isn't worth the lament.

Maybe we can get past it all and rediscover the wealth of southern black folklore when we mature.

I hope so, there's a depth of wisdom and subversiveness there that shouldn't be lost.

[MichiganVote]

11. Well it seems to have offended someone, I'm just surprised at it's

use as a racial slur as I never heard it used that way. Call me ignorant. To me it always just meant a tough or tricky situation, usually political.

[Igel]

10. Part of the problem with much of linguistic theory is

that it assumes a homogeneous community of speakers. You want a non-homogeneous community, you're talking dialectology, historical linguistics, and sociolinguistics, depending upon whether the differences are by area, by time, or by social situation (class, age, race, etc.). That's also linguistics, but not what most theoreticians look at.

Some here assume the community of speakers is homogeneous, even though it's butt obvious that the community isn't homogeneous. And they assert their views are the only possible views that others are permitted to hold.

Those that believe that the reference to the Brer Rabbit stories--which is still common enough in some subcommunities, it seems--must be outdated do so largely because they're ignorant of that use; their feelings and impressions are substituted for facts and knowledge, exulting in truthiness. Some believe that because they think the term is racist, it must invariably be used that way, and only interpreted that way, and any argument to the contrary is racist. Orwell would be stunned by the audaciousness of that idea, exceeding anything he committed to paper.

They're ignorant of polysemy. Wilfully so. And demand that we be ignorant of it.

Those that assert that the phrase 'tar baby' can have the meaning 'trap' don't deny that it can be a racist term--they just say they haven't heard it, or that the term's meaning can very by context and by intent, but don't try to impose their ignorance on others. They argue for polysemy.

I like learning new words and new meanings to words, I like trying to understand how a word's meaning varies by context and how we construe lexical and sentential meaning--I don't like being told that to be enlightened I must forget meanings, and that my native speaker intuitions and usage are wrong because somebody can claim greater victimization or melanin-based knowledge. I don't like being told I have no say over what I mean, instead somebody else's interpretation of my utterance completely trumps my intent and meaning, and I am to not only remain silent as their One True Interpretion is rammed down my throat, but to be greatful at the increase of ignorance and obscurantism in the name of Greater Knowledge. They make freepers look like scholars, and by comparison, * is a great sage whose brilliance is a credit to us all. Ptooey.

I'm a linguist, working on my dissertation. My wife's a linguist, tenure-track.

[flamin lib]

14. Wonderful response!!! Haven't heard such repartee since the days

of a little grass and sangria after class with the graduate assistant. That was a long time ago . . .

Seriously, you are absolutely right. Unfortunately being right and five bucks and change will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

I wouldn't be so forward to say some people are "willfully" ignorant of multiple meanings. That's sort of pejorative isn't it? How about "unaware" of polysemy? Little less aggressive don't ya' think?

The assumption that everybody agrees with you is rampant in our culture. There are red states and blue states. Either or. With me or against me.

Still, ignorance is ignorance be it willful or innocent. You gotta' take that into account if you want to communicate. Bush duz real gud reachin' the base 'cause they relate to 'im, ya' know whut I mean? AmIRightUrWrong?

Haven't read so many good words since I left grad school! Enjoyed it! Good luck with your dissertation. The world needs thinkers as much as it needs designers---besides you can outsource design . . .

[Igel]

18. It is pejorative.

Then again, I'm irritated, so while pejorative is probably out of place, I'm not willing to back down from it.

Snow may have been ignorant of the racist use of 'tar baby'. Others are ignorant of the non-racist use of 'tar baby', and deny that such a meaning or use is even possible. They deny that the word is, apparently, polysemous.

When they're told otherwise, they have a standard comeback. It doesn't matter what other speakers think; they're not just wrong, they're maliciously wrong. Other DUers making the same point are crypto-racists by virtue of their ignorance.

Some people know the word has two meanings, one racist, one fairly neutral (all things being equal). They don't use the expression, to be sensitive to others' feelings, but also know that others use it without intending offense.

Some have argued that intent doesn't matter: the feelings of the offended person trump, in this case, not only the context, but Snow's intent, and even plausible assumptions about Snow's knowledge of English and awareness of how others take the term.

Grice would be shocked.

And I'm surprised: My "ignore list" is no longer empty, for the first time in a year or so.

[Mythsaje]

16. Awesome response...

Fascinating thoughts on the subject. Thank you.

[ChristianLibrul]

13. Tar Baby not racist...

...to those of us who grew up with Uncle Remus stories. For Br'er Rabbit, the tar baby was a trap he stupidly got himself stuck in. Not that I'll ever defend the Snowman, but using the tar baby in that context is no more racist than the briar patch where, by the way, Br'er Rabbit was safe.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

17. The problem, though . . .

. . .is that given enough time and the right circumstances, any word will eventually offend somebody. Witness the flap a few years back when someone used the word "niggardly," in its standard meaning of "miserly." Even though the word is from the Norwegian, IIRC, and never before had any racial overtones, this person had some serious consequences and had to "apologize for a poor choice of words" at a minimum, because of the word's more nefarious homophone.

A slippery slope indeed.

[Hardrada]

19. Just use quote marks, waving your fingers a bit

and distance yourself from any pejorative (I used to use that word every so often) uses of whatever you are saying. When in doubt...I mean.