Is it legal to pass out Bibles in front of a school?

[Quixote1818]

A friend sent me this email message:



Here's a relevant issue that arose for me today. I'd be interested
in your
> thoughts.
>
> As a public school employee, part of my job is to supervise the
street
> corner on Wednesday afternoons and make sure no kids get run over.
When I
> went out today there were 3 older men standing on the sidewalk,
passing out
> Bibles. When I approached them they told me they were Gideons, and
that as
> long as they remained on public property (the sidewalk), passing
out Bibles
> to kids was legal. They also assured me that taking a Bible was
voluntary,
> and that they were not pressuring the kids who refused. I had to
stand there
> for a while and watch them, and they did not seem especially
aggressive in
> their biblical efforts. Still, it felt weird.
>
> What do you think are the moral and ethical implications of this
situation?
>

[Bluebear]

1. I think older men hanging around school passing out stuff is creepy. nt

[havocmom]

4. And should be watched CLOSELY!

Maybe even take pictures and ask the local police to make sure the gents are not on any list of sexual offenders.

Seriously. I would ask authorities to check them out just to be safe.

[madeline_con]

16. I just wrote almost exactly what you did b4 reading your post. n/t

[CottonBear]

2. Gideons passed out bibles to me when I was a kid.

I didn't know they still did that.

[TheMightyFavog]

6. They were passing out hose little new testaments at my College.

A number of stoners that I knew last year used the thin onionskin pages for rolling papers. :smoke:

[CottonBear]

9. That is so bad! Bad stoner, bad!

I still have my little red Gideons New Testament with the onion skin pages. I haven't opened it up and read it since at least 1981.

[thefloyd]

13. I have heard it all now!!

Long live the stoner

[TruthStream_dot_org]

17. Ive tried, but had no luck

no glue to keep it sticking...falls apart half way through and you end up with a big ole burning cherry in your lap. Good fun using their precious fiction novel to smoke my natural 'drug' that they hate so much. lol

[cmkramer]

36. They did that when I was in college too

We used to collect all the different colored covers.

[TheMightyFavog]

3. As long as they stay off school property, it's kosher.

End of Line.

[SteppingRazor]

5. First off, legally, they are correct...

They can hand out whatever literature they want, barring stuff calling for obviously illegal acts like insurrection against the government and that sort of thing. Like anything else, the Bible is covered in the first amendment.

Morally and ethically, I think you've got to let it slide. If you feel that strongly about it, then contact an organization like your local chapter of American Atheists, who would probably be glad to show up and distribute literature discussing the opposite side.

[longship]

7. It's legal, but I agree.

It needs to be watched very carefully.

[LondonReign2]

8. The Gideons did this to us when we were in college

Of course my friends and I, being the heathens that we were (and are), simply used to throw them at each other as forcefully as possible while yelling "Thou shalt not!"

[0rganism]

10. Sure it is

If they're not on school grounds during school hours and they aren't sex offenders with minimum distance requirements, they can hand out whatever books they like and no one is obliged to take them or engage in conversation.

Morally and ethically, it's a solid application of free speech and non-intervention, our first ammendment rights at work for all of us. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Walt Starr]

11. They are 100% within their rights under the constitution

There is no government involvement nor any government compulsion.

The Gideons are operating 100% correctly here.

[donco6]

12. Totally legal.

Free speech works all ways, folks.

Gideons in general are not high pressure types. Their whole philosophy is that "God's Word speaks for itself." They just make Bibles available, but don't generally proselytize.

[madeline_con]

14. I agree with Bluebear...

Ask them for I.D. so they can be compared against the sex offender database, "just to be safe". See if they stay. :eyes:

[havocmom]

20. Let's go pass out Qur'ans in front of a fundie Christian school,

on the public sidewalk, of course, and test the legality of the issue ;)

[ddeclue]

27. An excellent idea...n/t

[madeline_con]

32. I'm in!

Where can I get a bunch of Qur'ans?

[ddeclue]

33. Where else? Barnes and Nobles...

:)

[madeline_con]

34. I mean free ones, to hand out. n/t

[ddeclue]

35. Probably the Saudi consulate?? just guessin' here...

Of course be prepared to walk to Los Angeles on your next cross country trip because Vaterland Security vill no doubt put you on ze no fly, no drive, no ride the bus, don't even tink about leavin home list, nein, nein, nein ,nein!

Doug D.

[madeline_con]

41. I'm on that "list", dontcha know?

My parents worked in Saudi, I married a Saudi, and have a son in Saudi who communicates with me. They've got my number, I'm sure. :eyes:

[ddeclue]

42. No doubt...

All you probably have to do is post on the DU!



Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Oh dear

You're a triple threat then!!

[f-bush]

40. I think maybe an animal sacrifice (dead already) or wiccan service......

might be better. Lets traumatize the little fundie midgets, maybe that will make them think.

[SmokingJacket]

It's fine.

If people tried this in front of my kids' school, I'd be out there with copies of Strunk and White, or Shakespeare, or something, to add to their free book collection.

I used to get handed Bibles quite often when I was a kid. I read them, too. No big deal. I wish I'd been handed other things, too, though -- the more you know, the more you read, the better...

[ComerPerro]

15. Legal, but try passing out other religious doctrines

under those same circumstances.


And Christians say they are persecuted...

Ha!

[TruthStream_dot_org]

18. good idea actually

Find someone to be a few feet down the sidewalk to him to pass out Wiccan literature or Jewish or Muslim holy books. Lol. See how he likes that. If you were in orlando, Id volunteer just to piss the gideon off.

[pointblank]

24. No shit

I would love to see someone go out there and pass out quarans or the book of satan or something (I am neither muslim nor satanic, just thought I'd clarify)

Imagine O'reilly and Hannity getting riled up about that one...sheesh!

[FreedomAngel82]

47. I would even like that

I'm Christian and I would like that. I'd like to see them squirm around and explain "freedom of speech" that way when they're trying to get them off the property. Heh heh. I could care less what people pass out. I think it's the job of the parent to talk to their kid about religion if they have any question's on religious issues and stuff. I think it would be very interesting to see one person passing out Bible's and another passing out a wiccan book and see what happens. I get so tired of other Christians claiming to be persecuted because we're not. I've been more persecuted for being a liberal than I have for being a Christian. You can still go to Christian festivals, buy books, read your Bible in public, Christian music etc. If anything we're lucky.

[Selatius]

19. I see nothing wrong with what they're doing.

They followed the law here. If they were on school grounds, there is an issue, but since they're not, then no.

My college campus is a different beast though. (Miss. State Uni.) The entire campus was declared a free speech zone except inside the buildings themselves, so anybody could come onto campus and proselytize you.

[liveoaktx]

21. Yup.... and if you wanted to go stand in front of the school on the

public sidewalk and pass out, say, counter-recruitment materials, you could.

[Nutmegger]

22. I attend a small-sized college

and the devout religious are always there on Thursdays passing out little pocket bibles. They usually stand in the main entrance and are pretty difficult to avoid. I tried to use the back entrance (and was late to class) but some guy practically ran up to me because he wanted me to "see the light" and tell me that "Jesus saves all". What the hell is wrong with this???

[The Whiskey Priest]

23. It is annoying, but it is legal

Sort like the saffron robes accosting you in the airline terminal....not as much now as pre-9/11 the saffron robes that is, still annoying.

[dapper]

25. Targeting Kids?

I would say it is legal as they are on the sidewalk but they are targeting children?!? that's kind of lame. but then again, the ice cream man use to park close to the school on those hot spring and autumn days.

Still, I would not be thrilled with it if it happened at my son's school.

Dap

[ddeclue]

26. They are legally entitled to do so as long as it is public property.

Don (Quixote):

They are legally entitled to do so as long as it is public property and as long as they are not harassing or threatening any of the people to whom they are offering their Bibles.

Whatever you may think of their religious beliefs, what they are doing is literally putting the First Amendment to the rubber meets the road test. They are exercising their religious beliefs, exercising their freedom of speech, exercising their freedom of press (after all the Bible is a printed book..) AND exercising their right to assemble peaceably in public to express their beliefs (although this is not necessarily to seek redress from the gov't.)

As the famous French philosopher Voltaire said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

This spirit of tolerance is the essence of what freedom of speech, expression, conscience, and belief is about and it is the basis for the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the American Revolution and our subsequent democratic form of government and more generally for modern Western civilization as we know it.

The famous 16th century Protestant reformer, Martin Luther, said something in a similar vein when he was commanded to denounce his own writings and speaking at his church trial for heresy where he could have even been burned at the stake for them: "Hier steh' ich, ich kann nicht anders" (Here I stand, I can do no other).

It is never the popular speech that needs protecting, it is always the unpopular speech. Sometimes that is hateful speech which we all detest like "Illinois Nazis" - as Jake Blues said in the Blues Brothers: "I hate Illinois Nazis". Yet we must be mindful of Voltaire's words, for if we ban the unpopular hateful speech of the Illinois Nazis of the world, even for what we believe are good reasons - then what will keep our own words from being the next ones to be banned?

Sometimes we ourselves are saying the unpopular thing.

Much like Martin Luther in the 16th Century or for that matter, Martin Luther King, Jr. in the 20th century, we must all have the courage to quietly, calmly, and resolutely stand our ground in the face of those who would try to intimidate us into silence or recantation. Sometimes the unpopular speaker may be a neo-Nazi but often times he or she is the lone voice speaking truth to power. When that lone voice is silenced, even if only through self censorship, then there is only darkness and silence.

So, in closing, I say, kudos to those Bible-handing-out Gideons for having the courage to actually practice their First Amendment rights. May we all have so much courage to speak our minds.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[LostinVA]

28. Yes, as long as they are on the sidewalk

[Zenlitened]

29. Legal, yes. Ethically, sounds kind of predatory to me. -- n/t

[bostonbabs]

30. President Clinton passed the

Religious Freedom Restoration Act which was "intended to protect a reasonable range of religious expression in public areas"( pg.558 in Clinton's book)
Bible study groups on school grounds are permissable.....To think that Clinton and other liberals are vilified by the hate mongers about a war on religion is such a crock of crap. Clinton did more to protect religious expression than any Republican before him.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. I think it is 100% legal. Ethically I disagree with it though.

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. I just went through this very thing a few months back.

People were standing in front of my son's school, on the sidewalk at the exit of the parking lot, handing out bibles. I called the police and he said there's nothing we can do because they are on public property. :(

He said they had fought them in court years ago and lost because it is public property, but after that, they had left and never come back. He was surprised to know they returned and promised to keep an eye on them. I've never seen them back though.

Many people wrote to our local paper's speakout column about this and I wasn't the only one pissed as hell.

So, yes, it's legal and it SUCKS that they can prey on children like this.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

38. Not something you'd see in

Saudi Arabia, huh?

[rocktivity]

39. Your job is to supervise the street corner!

I would hope your supervison includes making sure the kids aren't being approached by strangers. Whether they're being aggressive or not, they're trying to influence the kids religiously without parental knowlege or consent, and as a representative of the school, you should not be codoning that. You'd call the cops if they were handing out copies of Playboy, wouldn't you? Also If they're standing on corner of the block where the school is, they're on SCHOOL property. Talk it over with your principal.

:headbang:
rocknation

[TahitiNut]

43. What if it were Sex Education materials? Condoms? The Kama Sutra?

Both are legal. :shrug: (Read the Old Testament for sex education some time.)

[ismnotwasm]

44. They did that to one of my daughters

Who was in a very rebellious state at the time. She requested quite few (they were sure she was saved) She amused herself with various ways of bible destruction. She was quite creative, as I recall.

I didn't have to heart to be mad at her, since I was so pissed, but we did talk about the separation of church and state. And that book destruction is bad.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Every once in a while

at my college I'll be coming in to go to class every semester and there's two guys out there passing out little NT books. I don't mind it and they've never bugged me. They ask me if I want one and I polietly say "no thanks" and smile and go on my way. :shrug: I don't think they should be at elementary schools. Kids don't understand religion yet for the most part. It's up to parents to help guide them in their question's and things like that until they get to a certain age. I would feel uncomfortable if they were at an elementary school when I have kids in the future.