How would prohibition of abortion be enforced?

[bluestateguy]

Say R v. W is struck down, and most of the red states proceed to ban abortion.

OK (well, it's not OK), how would such laws be enforced? This medical procedure has been legal for 33 years now (longer, in some states), and I don't think that most Americans are going to just accept abortion just becoming illegal all of a sudden. I think we are owed an explanation from the anti-abortion crowd as to how such laws would be enforced.

They should tell us:

What would happen to women and doctors who defy the law? Or other people who assist women in obtaining illegal abortions? Will you close down clinics that had been performing legal abortions?

Will you shut up and accept it if states like New York and California decide to keep the procedure legal? Will you respect their laws, and leave them alone?

Will you interfere with a pregnant woman who travels from a state where abortion is illegal to a state where abortion is legal?

If you make exceptions for rape and incest, how will you determine who is covered under these exceptions? What if a woman claiming to be raped makes a phony accusation so she can get a legal abortion, thus dragging some guy through the mud? What if the alleged rapist is later found not guilty, months after the abortion is performed?

We are owed answers to these questions by the advocates of prohibitive abortion laws.

[NorCalDem]

1. But...but...but ....

That's not black and white, and we only deal with absolutes in this country. Worrying about how to actually implement something is for pussy liberals to worry about, not us patriotic American Republicans! :sarcasm:

[Canuckistanian]

5. That's right, details don't matter to them

They can only think in terms of big, easy-to-understand, black-and-white concepts.

Like "Saddam attacked us on 9/11".

Oh, and they don't even have to be factual.

[Fridays Child]

2. Poorly. Witness the fact that GWB got one for his girlfriend...

...at a hospital in Texas, when they were still illegal there. His case also proves money opens doors that are closed to poor people. Rich white girls will not suffer as many coat hanger casualties but there will be some who die that way and, then, abortions will be made legal, again.

[bryant69]

3. Well the first step would be to return the decision to the states

Some states are already to outlaw it, and others would definately keep it.

But if Abortion is Murder, as some believe it to be, how can they leave it up to the states? Are babies in Utah or Mississippi worht saving and babies in California or Vermont not?

So eventually the hardliners would want to get around to the opposite position - abortion outlawed for all states - which is interesting. Since one of their big arguments now is that the decision should have been left up to the states - i wonder how many would peel off when they started going that way.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[mtnester]

4. In the instance you described, (Roe overturned) it will be enforced

economically...

You can either afford the $15,000.00 private doc fee, or not.

Simple economics...otherwise, unless you have the dough...

[sallyseven]

7. You get medical D&C and Oh my goodness the rich

baby is gone. Just like the 40's, 50''s and 60"s Mom and dad pay the bill. Hwever if your an adult you use a coat hanger or get a dr. to help you they did. Morning after pill and the rdU whatever, may still be around. Most of the bastards that are screaming could give a shit less.

[sproutster]

6. Anyone who got a bad one, would be charged with murder

[Mend]

8. they will NEVER stop abortion....they never have and

they never will. Women will learn how to do it themselves or with a friend's help. It is not that hard. Unenforceable bullshit.

[CatholicEdHead]

11. That is so true

the point that both sides can agree on is the best way to MINIMIZE them. The "pro-choice" position is encouraging women to keep their child and get along with social services and/or a job that pays a livable wage to still support the kid(s).

[Mend]

23. that is why abortions went down during Clinton's presidency....

a really good economy for working people, who could then afford to have children. Abortions are back up under bush for the exact opposite situation....bush kills.

[IronLionZion]

9. Hey! You're not supposed to ask questions!

Hell, you're not even supposed to think! That's why we have TV.

:sarcasm:

We are owed a lot of answers, but like their judicial appointments, Republicans don't have any answers to give. If you ask questions like that, and they try to answer them, it will make it obvious how retarded it is to make abortion illegal.

That's why abortion will not become illegal. They'll make a big show of it and it may appear to be a fight over abortion but it's smoke. Once they lose their golden goose, the hypocritical wing of the Republican party will fall from power so bad they will never recover.

They need abortion because they need the religious lunatics. They can't get that kind of support with gun control or gay marriage. Abortion is the most powerful social issue. There is no other social issue that enacts such strong emotional response and division in this country today. Liberals like JFK, FDR, and Truman won because abortion was not on the table then.

[CTyankee]

26. I wish I could agree with you, but I can't and here's why

I truly believe these people are crazy. They are willing to do crazy things. If you don't believe that, look at how they have reacted to things like the war in Iraq and the hurricane in New Orleans both huge failures on the part of the federal government in actually GOVERNING the country. History has shown us that these failures on a MASSIVE basis have occurred, leading nations to lose their empires because of rot and disbelief among their citizens.

I recommend a book called "The March of Folly" by the late historian,Barbara Tuchman, which highlighted several instances of a government's absolute blind folly in pursuing policies that were suicidal. She wrote it during the Vietnam War, but she included in her book Troy and King George III's intransigence in the American Revolution. These were crazy people, folks. Read history, and weep!

[oneighty]

10. Any person

involved in the abortion including the father would be executed to make sure 'By God' that they never do it again.

The coat hanger involved will be melted down to make war materials.

I think this is sarcasm.

180

[Cleita]

12. Let me take you back to coat hanger days.

No doctor would openly perform an abortion although I'm sure a lot of D & C's and appendectomies would be performed for health reasons. *cough*, *cough*. Clinics across the borders would be doing a thriving business. There would of course be the back alley abortionists that would be back in business.

Sometimes they were nurses or medical students trying to make an extra dollar or two, but one really had no way of knowing what their medical experience was because there would be no professional organization to inquire about their record. There wouldn't be the medical back up of a hospital if something went wrong.

Of course poor women, who couldn't afford the fee and the fees were very expensive because of the risk would be the ones to try home remedies, the wire coat hanger would be one of those. The gin and hot bath method to induce a miscarriage and many other creative ways that women have been known to try out of desperation.

[bee]

15. utterly horrifying. n/t

[Warpy]

21. We're already seeing young girls beaten nearly to death

by their boyfriends trying to induce miscarriage, and that's just because of the parental notification laws.

Antiabortion laws kill women. That is the bottom line, right there.

[ugarte]

13. I think you're overly optimistic

When you say most Americans won't accept abortion becoming illegal, why won't they? They accept illegal elections, illegal war, illegal spying, etc.. and the right wingers know it. They have absolutely no fear of people power or mass civil disobedience, because recent history shows only acquiesence and compliant behavior. What makes you think abortion will be any different?

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Damn that is a depressing post.

I totally agree. We are f*ing doomed by passivity.

[CTyankee]

14. Of course clinics providing abortions will close down!

If the state bans abortions. They MIGHT be able stay open for contraceptive services until that, too, is banned. REMEMBER FOLKS: THESE PEOPLE WANT TO GET RID OF GRISWOLD!!! No constitutional right to privacy in your sex life, forget it!

Of course, they will try to prosecute women traveling from an antichoice state to a prochoice state. With our wonderful new surveillance techniques and warrantless wiretaps, everybody's whereabouts and their private lives will be open to the government. And that's just as they want it!

Of course, there will be desperate women who will say they were raped. Roe in Roe v. Wade was one such individual. She didn't implicate a specific man, but she used rape (which in her case was untrue, but her lawyers didn't know that) in a desperate attempt to end an unwanted pregnancy.

[AX10]

16. Oh yes, they will try to get into our personal lives.

No question about it. Alito (Terrorist) want to undo the progress of the Warren court.

[ugarte]

17. In many parts of the country it's difficult to get an abortion already

due to intimidation and bogus requirements. Add a whole other layer of fear (the possibility of being prosecuted) and how many doctors will take the risk of losing their license and livelihood?

[ismnotwasm]

18. If it's illegal, you get caught

Anyone of several ugly scenarios could emerge. Women could go to prison for murder. Any miscarriage might be considered suspect as well. I wonder what the status of frozen embryo's infertility clinic will be?

It is a different world in a way. Men who had no desire to become a parent, with DNA testing will be forced to become a parent. Or at least forced into child support, or will they?

As stated above, it'll boil down to money. The rich will be able to afford the procedure, poorer women will go back to some old fashioned procedures.

It's NOT enforceable. And those assholes aren't going to answer any of your questions. Because for most of them, it's about control.

[applegrove]

20. If Roe vs. Wade fails - then state by state the laws have to be remade.

And many states will vote for a woman's rights control her own body. Some states will not. In those states - the poor will be poorer. Children will suffer. But that is what the GOP wants. Along with the wedge turning into a state by state thing.

Hopefully - improved science - if it is still allowed - will reduce the need for abortion. That is all we can hope for - but you have to wonder at this point if the poorest of the poor will even have access to other methods of reproductive health.

[Johonny]

22. Wouldn't be enforced

It seems that making laws prohibiting activities that are not viewed as socially unacceptable have in general failed. Usually catastrophically as they tend to become big money makers for organized crime. No doubt abortion will be as hard to get in the US as pot or a prostitute or a beer when you were 18. And no doubt there will an occasional raid by the police for show. The net result of the law will be turning the act of abortion from a regulated medical procedure to an unregulated medical procedure. That an a dramatic increase in crime.

As for all the details you list. If you listen to the debate then you know while John Kerry looked closely at all the possible out comes a total ban might bring (such as forcing a daughter get permission from the very parent that raped them), GWB thinks it's simple.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Tell that to the tens of thousands in jail for drug crimes

Tell that to the women dead and injured by illegal abortions prior to roe v wade.

Doctors are not going to risk jail or careers to perform illegal abortions. Pharmacists are not going to supply morning after pills 'under the counter'.

[Hamlette]

25. just like it was 30+ years ago.

rich people will go out ot state, like they did then, poor people will go to butchers, like they did then. And die. Like they did then.

Some states (most? all?) made exceptions for the life of the mother, rape and incest. I'd think that would continue. The battle will continue to rage around the edges. In blue states and over restrictions. (I honestly don't think they could say you couldn't go to another state to have an abortion. But then, I don't think the government can tell me I can't go to Cuba. And it does.)

[CTyankee]

27. Going to another state for abortion

will definitely be a Supreme Court decision, now that they own the court. Of course, it will be deemed illegal. You didn't think that your blue state status would insure against that, did you? With Alito, think again. Anything is possible.