Any combat vets here who are gonna watch 'Baghdad ER'?

[TomInTib]

I am going to give it a shot (no pun intended, I just typed it without thinking).

After pulling 3 tours of river patrol in Vietnam, I went with a buddy (sniper, Army) to see Apocalypse Now.

No problem. He thought the movie didn't look like anything he had seen. It pretty well represented what I had been into, except highly stylized and blown out.

A couple of weeks ago, I noticed the movie on the cable guide.
My sweetheart, having never seen it, wanted to watch it.
We got in about halfway.

I lasted less than 5 minutes.

I guess I was hardened and ready, way back then. But I cannot take it today. Guess the bravado of Youth has faded.

But I am going to catch this one.

I suppose we owe it to those taking the hit.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

1. Not this one. Uh uh.

Not from what I saw on a 30sec clip.

[babylonsister]

2. Hi, Tom. I saw the mom of a kid who died on this show. Prior to that,

she never knew how her child died, and she was strangely comforted. She knew he was taken care of to the best of the ability of a hospital in Iraq, he was loved, he was encouraged to live.
If you can bear it, watch it. We have a connection, because I have a b-i-l who is forever affected by VN and will never get over it, ever. He was a tunnel rat for a year, and it ruined him, and continues to influence his life all these years later. PTSD? It happens to many; we won't even realize the secondary problems we're creating.

[TomInTib]

4. That's it. The mother of that kid.

I was never really afraid of dying, but I lived in abject fear of my Mother hearing that knock at her door.

I knew three tunnel rats. Two of them took their own lives. There was no harder duty pulled than that - ever.

[babylonsister]

7. Really? That gives me some insight into my sister and b-i-l. It

really does. He speaks french (Canadian? Parisian?), worked with computers, and now he's on vacation in Italy w/my sister. But he spends most of his time writing 'novels' full of such stuff that he can never reveal. I haven't seen either of them since they got married, about 7 years ago.

[w8liftinglady]

28. Now that my son is home for good,I can watch it.

For three years,through three deployments,I waited for that phone call.Lucky for me,my kid got hurt jumping off a truck...just bad enough that he can't be deployed to a war zone.He has ptsd,and I wouldn't recommend him seeing it.I won't even mention it.

[MuseRider]

3. We will be here.

I traveled to Honduras to go diving with a friend who freaked when we got off the plane. It is rough, I can't identify at all but I wish you well.

When is it on?

[TomInTib]

6. HBO, Sunday, 8pm, 7 Central.

I am going to suck it up and watch it.

'For each and every underdog soldier in the night'

[MuseRider]

10. I will set the TIVO

in case I forget. Thank you for the info. "For each and every underdog soldier in the night", as hard as it may be for you they will appreciate that very much.

[SeattleGirl]

8. Sunday night at 8:00 pm n/t

[MuseRider]

12. Thanks. n/t

[lyonn]

5. I do plan to watch, this is reality and if those over there

doing what our govt. is asking them to do and paying the price it seems we do need to understand more of what is really happening. The more people sitting around their living rooms get a bite of reality and see only a small portion of the pain and suffering for this worthless war it could bring it to an end sooner.

[TomInTib]

9. "For each and every underdog soldier in the night"

Chimes of Freedom
Bob Dylan

Far between sundown's finish an' midnight's broken toll
We ducked inside the doorway, thunder crashing
As majestic bells of bolts struck shadows in the sounds
Seeming to be the chimes of freedom flashing
Flashing for the warriors whose strength is not to fight
Flashing for the refugees on the unarmed road of flight
An' for each an' ev'ry underdog soldier in the night
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

In the city's melted furnace, unexpectedly we watched
With faces hidden while the walls were tightening
As the echo of the wedding bells before the blowin' rain
Dissolved into the bells of the lightning
Tolling for the rebel, tolling for the rake
Tolling for the luckless, the abandoned an' forsaked
Tolling for the outcast, burnin' constantly at stake
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Through the mad mystic hammering of the wild ripping hail
The sky cracked its poems in naked wonder
That the clinging of the church bells blew far into the breeze
Leaving only bells of lightning and its thunder
Striking for the gentle, striking for the kind
Striking for the guardians and protectors of the mind
An' the unpawned painter behind beyond his rightful time
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Through the wild cathedral evening the rain unraveled tales
For the disrobed faceless forms of no position
Tolling for the tongues with no place to bring their thoughts
All down in taken-for-granted situations
Tolling for the deaf an' blind, tolling for the mute
Tolling for the mistreated, mateless mother, the mistitled prostitute
For the misdemeanor outlaw, chased an' cheated by pursuit
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Even though a cloud's white curtain in a far-off corner flashed
An' the hypnotic splattered mist was slowly lifting
Electric light still struck like arrows, fired but for the ones
Condemned to drift or else be kept from drifting
Tolling for the searching ones, on their speechless, seeking trail
For the lonesome-hearted lovers with too personal a tale
An' for each unharmful, gentle soul misplaced inside a jail
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Starry-eyed an' laughing as I recall when we were caught
Trapped by no track of hours for they hanged suspended
As we listened one last time an' we watched with one last look
Spellbound an' swallowed 'til the tolling ended
Tolling for the aching ones whose wounds cannot be nursed
For the countless confused, accused, misused, strung-out ones an' worse
An' for every hung-up person in the whole wide universe
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.



Copyright © 1964; renewed 1992 Special Rider Music

[lyonn]

13. My husband and I were against the VN war from the beginning

But, I feel guilty when I realise that we mostly concentrated on life after college with kids, the usual. All through the VN war we bitched and hated Johnson and then Nixon for lying to us about getting out with honor. Those masses of protestors deserve a really big thanks for taking time out of their lives to let the govt. know how they felt. Now I am an old lady and hitting the protest trail doesn't seem do-able. But, I am not That Old that I couldn't go downtown and hang around and at least be a part of the body count. Guilty again for not doing something real to help bring the troops home. Viet Nam and Iraq were and are bs, arrogance/superiority and egos. ?? We all know at least one person that was in VN that came home messed up in the head and body.

Murtha said recently that these poor fellows are being sent back to Iraq when they are emotionally and physically not ready to do it again and then are put in positions to "loose it." He could be the turning point.

[bluesbassman]

11. I don't really see the value.

First let me say I served peacetime, '76 to '79, so I'm not talking through personal perspective. But the way I see it, our brothers and sisters out there in harms way, have been mis-used, abused and taken advantage of enough already. Now maybe a case can be made for exposing more "average" Americans to the horrors that our soldiers are enduring, but I think this will merely de-sensitize them more than anything else. I've got nothing against war/combat movies, but really, what's the motivation here? Perhaps if all profits were contributed to veteran support it would be more palatable.

I hope I didn't come off preachy, but it just fries me to think that another dollar is going to be made on the pain and suffering being endured by our troops in Iraq.

BTW, Thanks to you and all our other combat vets for your service.:toast:

[lyonn]

14. But who else will show it?

I see it more as a tribute. Apparently there are family members that need to know what is really happening, even to their own as some have stated on tv. Don't think a reality show will de-sensitize many, hopefully.

Edit: Now, watching movies about 9-11 is another matter. Documentaries are different than a movie with their slant on a subject.

[babylonsister]

15. Thank you for your perspective, bluesbassman!

I think the fact that a documentary about the Iraqi war/7pmCT on HBO is coming out will emphasize what the real story is, and not many people even have a clue. It's a good thing imho. I heard it's brutal and an eye-opener, something that we probably should view. Kind of like "MASH" with a literal twist.

[bluesbassman]

20. I agree that Americans should know the truth babylonsister.

And I was unaware that this is actually a "reality" program, thanks for the heads up lyonn. Taken in that context, this may be a good thing for the public to see. God knows they aren't getting the straight story from the MSM!

Now if they would only do a "reality" show showing how effed up the administration is....We live in hope.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. One thing that helped bring Vietnam to an end was the Nightly News...

We no longer have pictures on the TV every night showing us the carnage.

Someone has to do it. Kudos and Props to the film's creators. :toast:

[Scoody Boo]

16. Don't know yet.

I really haven't decided. I jumped into Panama as part of the Just Cause Invasion and played in the Sandbox during Desert Storm. Did a year in Iraq (two six month contracts 2004-2005) with a security company. Seen enough and don't know if I am going to watch this or not. I guess I'll know Sunday.

[lyonn]

17. Understandable that you might not watch

You have been there and done that. The rest of us are in the dark. We get brief clips of the streets of Iraq with some distant action going on. That can not compare to the real thing, fear, sounds and smell type thing. If people knew what war was really like there would be fewer war, that's been said many times.

[Scoody Boo]

19. Things is...

most soldiers will go to war, even if they have experienced it before. You see things different as a soldier. My thoughts when I went to Panama and Desert Storm as an infantryman were far different from what they were when I went to Iraq as a civilian contractor. I won't dodge the issue, I went to Iraq to get paid. I would not do it again for no amount of money. But I would go if I was still wearing an Army uniform. Kind of hard to really put into words.

[bluesbassman]

21. Well said SB.

Although my service time didn't include combat, I know what you mean. And that's why I'm so troubled about our troops now. They too feel the patriotism of serving their country, but they also know what a major FUBAR this action is, and that's got to hurt.

[babylonsister]

22. You've been a soldier, there's honor in that. I respect that.

The fact that you recognize what's going on is enough for me. I love soldiers, my country, but not my government at this point. You did good. Peace, Scoody Boo.

[nytemare]

26. Welcome to DU Scoody Boo.

Love the username.

Sounds like you were all over, and had many different experiences in the military.

:hi:

[nytemare]

18. I don't have HBO

I would watch it if I could, though. Other than that series Over There, and the movies Three Kings and Jarhead, there hasn't been too much out on either the first Gulf War or the Iraq war. I forgot Gunner Palace.

Three Kings is the one that got me.

My time in Iraq in '91 was not very long, and probably not as hard as the folks are going through now. Surely it wasn't as hard as Vietnam.

I feel like our government and our people have failed our soldiers. They are volunteers, but they should be able to know that the Commander in Chief is only going to put them in harms way if it is truly necessary for our security. Then, when they are put there, and given bad orders that go all the way to the top (i.e. Abu Ghraib), they need to know the people that gave those orders are going to accept responsibility for them. Not just claim the people who FUCKING followed orders in a war zone are bad apples.

What they did was wrong, but also, many troops don't have the luxury in wartime to decide which orders to follow or not. It is pounded into you, do what your told. These guys are in heat, pulling long shifts, and they are concerned for their survival. They don't follow orders, it isn't just them that pays, it is the unit. And the unit will look down on them. Seems we have a bunch of FUCK UPS in command who don't look at the long term results on our troops and our entire nation if our troops are given bad orders. They were hung up to dry.

Please realize that I know their actions were wrong, but with responsible leadership, they would never have been put into position to make those wrong actions.

:rant:

[babylonsister]

23. nytemare, I'm kicking this for your thoughtful post! Thank you, and

thank you for your service and thoughtful observations! :patriot:

[nytemare]

25. And thank you for the thank you!

It sounds like these other vets went through much more than I did.

I get really pissed off when soldiers aren't treated right, aren't given proper equipment, and are orphaned by their leadership. I ranted a bit...lol.

:hi:

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

27. Kick for others who may have missed it

Again. I can't watch it. I am sure of that.