So ... today I had 'that talk' with my son ......

[Stinky The Clown]

He's 28. His SO is 26. She's an ICU nurse. The other day a doc hit on her. Not in a nice way. My son is all pissed and wants to yank his larynx out. Through his ass.

I was told this tale by his SO, in his presence.

He means well. He loves her and wants nothing more in the world than her well being and happines and would walk through fire for her.

She knows that.

So why, he asked me, wasn't she so happy about his reaction.

"Dad, I mean, I really wanna get that son of a bitch."

Okay, son.

But don't.

"But Dad, don't you think a man needs to stand up for the woman he loves?"

..... more of the same .....

"Son. This is <my future daughter-in-law>'s fight. Not yours. If you stand up for her, you also weaken her. She knows you care and this offends you. It offends me, too. But you need to do nothing more than support her. She knows you're there for her. And that's all she needs. She's very capable of dealing with this on her own. Our job is to be there. If our help's needed, it'll be asked for."

"Son, women are way stronger than you can ever imagine."

I saw the light bulb come on over his well-meaning head.

I got a kiss from her.

It was a good day.

[KyndCulture]

1. Have I told you today...

that :yourock:.

Good for YOU!!!!!!

[Orsino]

2. Well done.

Stand up with her, not just for her.

[MissB]

3. You're a great dad.

And you'll be an amazing FIL. I love that you get it. Not enough men do.

[1620rock]

11. ...ha ha, my wife comes from New Jersey, and you don't....

....mess with females of that ilk. :*

[BlooInBloo]

4. Whatever. Then she'll be just as strong when I'm done....

... yanking his larynx out.

And there'll be one fewer doctor abusing his position.

Win-win.

[Maddy McCall]

10. Not so. I was married to a guy who physically confronted...

any guy who hit on me. In the end, he also physically abused me--badly, worse than I care to tell in this thread.

[BlooInBloo]

14. That's quite obviously a COMPLETELY different thing...

... Unless you really do mean to suggest that anyone who gets a guy back for fuckin with his SO is an abuser of said SO?

I don't *think* you mean to suggest that, but I suppose I should ask...

[Maddy McCall]

26. No, I didn't mean to suggest that.

My ex had a problem with wanting to handle things physically with anyone who offended him.

I told him that I would handle the situation I had at work. Instead, he took a ball bat to work and confronted the guy (my co-worker) in the elevator. I could have been fired over it--only because my bosses were VERY understanding did I keep my job.

I told my ex that I would talk to my bosses on Monday about what happened. He wouldn't trust me to do that. I told my bosses what the guy had said and done, and the guy was fired.

My ex husband's "defense" of me resulted in NOTHING positive. NOTHING.

He crippled me with his possessiveness of me, instead of allowing me to handle my own situations.

In the end, he became abusive toward me when I didn't give in to his possessive, domineering ways. I am better off without him.

[BlooInBloo]

28. You got that right! (your closing sentence)

:toast:

[Stinky The Clown]

Maddy ..........

.... I didn't take it that way.

[Maddy McCall]

38. Ok--thanks.

:hug:

[CoffeeCat]

76. Maddy, I understand what you are saying...

Any guy would have an emotional reaction to his SO being harassed or hit on. That's just being human.

The question is...what does the guy do with those emotions? Abusers are control freaks. They would
consider a man hitting on his SO as a personal affront to HIM. A loss of control for HIM. The woman's feelings
and emotions--and protection--really are secondary to his own ego.

If you SO really cared about you, he would have rationally discussed the situation and asked you how he
can best help you work through the situation. Do you need a shoulder? Do you need help talking to your
boss or filing a report? Or do you just need a hug and reassurance that you can get through this?

Your SO did what he wanted, based on his need to control his possession (you). He jeopardized your
employment, and that is just as abusive and out-of-control as the guy who initially hit on you.

I just wanted to throw some support and understanding your way. I hope this helped in some way.

:)

[tavalon]

94. Those who would use violence in one situation

are certainly at higher risk of using it in multiple situations.

[BlooInBloo]

128. There's the assimilation...

... violence against bad guy = violence against good guy.

Worded with more tact, but the intent is clear enough.

Genius.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. In fairness to my son .....

I may have overstated quite a bit the level of his anger and proposed solution.

I also understated by restrained language the vile nature of the doc's hit.

[BlooInBloo]

16. Just out of curiousity, what will you suggest when the doc does it AGAIN?

boys mistreating girls puts a red tinge on everything for me....

[Stinky The Clown]

22. Actually, we talked about hat ......

.... and there's no pat answer, now is there?

Largely, the answer rests in her. And one thing makes me comfortable it isn't a worry.

She's smart.

Real smart.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Pat answer: Rip his larynx out thru his ass before it happens again.

With some things, I'm just not a believer in peace-at-all-costs-take-no-definitive-steps-to-prevent-being-fucked-with approaches.

'specially when it's a boy-fucking-with-girl situation.


Not dissin you, just sayin that the approach doesn't work for me... Different strokes n all I guess...

EDIT: corrected subject.

[Maddy McCall]

31. Good for him. Good for her.

And good for you and your advice.

:)

[elehhhhna]

72. Make jerky remarks by should-know-better guys simply disappear:

She must grab & extend her badge, sweater button, pen, whatever and say: "Please repeat that directly into the microphone? Thanks." Smile until he goes away.

Voila.

[Jane Austin]

75. I LOVE that!!

Thanks for giving us another tool to use.

[sojourner]

34. ...you are still diminishing HER ability to take care of, and stand up

for HERSELF. Hypothetically -- say a chick messes with you. You want your SO or wife to go beat her brains out?

Edited for spelling.

[BlooInBloo]

40. No I'm not. I'm completely ignoring it.

... for better or for worse. She can berate me when I'm done and have calmed down. She'll probably (like you) be right, but that doesn't affect what's likely to actually happen: that said doctor will never so much as entertain the notion of a repeat performance.

OTOH, there IS a way my hypothetical wife's "first blood" rights won't be violated: if she gets to him before I do. LOL!

It wouldn't particularly bother me if my wife wanted to go beat up someone bullying me (unless you build in more assumtions that haven't yet been stated). It's about as fantastical a supposition as has every been made, but I'll go with it :)

[sojourner]

44. I don't necessarily see "hitting on" someone as "bullying".

Yes, it IS sexual harrassment. But there are laws to protect her AND as an enlightened woman I have no doubt she can set that situation straight pretty quick.

So, your response suggests that an equivalent would be a woman bullying you (guess it could happen, but pretty unlikely) -- when what I suggested was a flip of the situation. A woman in a position of powrer (boss) trying to hit on you.

[BlooInBloo]

48. Your impression of what happened then differs from mine.

That's just the way it goes :)

But in any case, I don't see the point - I've already answered your question: apart from anything about the hypothetical story you haven't stated, I wouldn't have any special problem with my wife acting on her own, as she deems best.

It seems an odd question to ask - I wouldn't be witha woman IN THE FIRST PLACE whose independent actions I didn't have faith in... lol - so there really is no question, though you keep asking it....

[Sparkly]

53. I think I see your point of view too, Bloo.

And from what H2S tells me (I wasn't there), I think the "SO" did appreciate the passion of H2SJr's fury, in a way. I'm a person who craves a feeling of 'protection' -- something I'm not proud of, but it's very difficult for me to be assertive in many situations, and I'd like to imagine someone could protect me.

BUT... (You knew there was a "but!") I had an experience as a teenager, when I told my boyfriend about something awful another guy had done, seeking comfort, support, a listening ear, sympathy, understanding, an "it's not your fault," an "I'll do anything I can," and I probably wouldn't have minded an "If you say the word, I'll gladly kick the shit out of him."

Instead, he turned his back to me -- literally -- and stalked off, pacing around in a huff about what a horrible thing it was to HIM for that to have happened to me. Suddenly, it was all about HIS anger, and not about my feelings at all. He totally stopped listening to me -- the focus turned into some man-to-man issue that had nothing to do with me.

I'm not saying that's where you're coming from, but ... I know I wouldn't mind you saying "I'll rip his larynx out through his ass" -- to me, that would feel like a nice pledge of protection -- BUT, I'd want you to add the phrase "if that's what you want me to do -- just say the word." That means you're still listening and facing and focused on "me," the woman who's telling you what she experienced, and not turning your back on her to confront the other guy yourself, as if she has no power to handle it.

She wouldn't be asking you to "handle it," just by telling you about it. She might want something else -- and it's about what SHE wants. SHE's the one who experienced it; HERS are the feelings and thoughts and resolve and conflicts that require attention, far above your own feelings and thoughts and reactions that might lead you to turn your attention toward beating up the asshole guy, and away from her and what she's seeking from you.

Does that make sense?

Ultimately, the best you can do is encourage her to deal with it, support her in her strength, and applaud her as she does.

[BlooInBloo]

56. That would make perfect sense after I got back and calmed down.

And it makes perfect sense right now.

:)

Like I said to someone else here tho, what makes sense doesn't always jibe with action. This is one of those situations for me.

Not that my likely actions are bereft of sense. It would be pretty crappy to "turn the other cheek" (for *whatever* reason), and have it happen AGAIN. My likely actions would preclude that eventuality from taking place. Which is a virtue of my likely actions. Preventing any such thing from ever happening again is likely to take precedence over EVERYTHING for me.

If my wife is similarly minded in regards to someone picking on me, so be it - it's no insult to my abilities to take care of myself, it's *just what she would do*, hypothetically. We're both able to take care of me. She "cuts in line" (because I'm supposed the be "first in line", as it's MY bully) at some point and takes care of the bully picking on me. So what? I fail to perceive any insult.

Maybe it's *impolite*, a la "cutting in line", to get back at the bully before my wife has the chance, but there's abolutely NO "diminution" of her ability to take care of herself. Like I said before - if she can beat me to him, she can have him :)

[Sparkly]

58. "What makes sense doesn't always jibe with action."

Oh, I know. :)

I think in some ways, we're all "cave-people" at heart.

BUT... (You knew there was *another* "but" coming, didn't you, Bloo?)

You have to stop and think about the person you're defending, too, and not just your own caveman instinct to kick the crap out of anyone who harms them.

It's parental, too -- and not just paternal. I'm a rather meek person, but when my daughter came home one day in tears because a boy pushed her while she was roller-skating, I went out ready to -- well, not physically harm the boy, but scare him enough never to lay a hand on her again. (Something I'd find it very hard to do if it were just myself I was defending.)

As it happened, he wasn't outside anymore, so I figured out his name, looked him up, and called his parents. But man, that showed me the power of protective outrage -- my maternal lioness showed up!

But it's different when we're talking about adults (and non-cavepeople). It's even different from when I was a teenager -- women are FAR more empowered now (thank you, foremothers!) in terms of assertive awareness, legal recourse, and social mores.

Leave it to HER. If she wants you to take a baseball bat to the guy, she'll TELL you. If she wants you to listen, comfort, encourage, and support her, do THAT instead. If you tell her your first inclination is to "preclude" it ever happening again, as you said, I'm sure she'll appreciate the feeling. But truly -- it's her fight. She'll tell you what she needs from you.

[BlooInBloo]

59. LOL! I guessed you'd focus on that sentence...

Time for me to get food - hasta!

[Nordmadr]

67. We have a winner. That is the correct answer. I feel from the

description that this was a bit more than..."Wanna go out sometime". So with that said, think personal safety too. Whatever route is travelled though, the keeping it about her and respecting her wishes is the right thing. Oddly enough, most women seem to get by just fine without men "solving" their problems for them.

I have to say in a man's defense though, wanting to protect the woman we love just comes natural. It seems the first instinct, and often before rational thought.

Olafr

[tavalon]

99. Thing is, I'm hearing you say

that you would respond to a doctor rudely propositioning your partner by beating him up or worse. That would be unacceptable to me. My filing harassment charges would be completely appropriate. You're beating up on the guy would land you in jail and when you got home, the doghouse.

[lukasahero]

95. "She can berate me when I'm done"

So basically you're saying you don't care what SHE wants, thinks or feels? Yes, that is diminishing her.

Your reaction is making this more about you than her - your "honor"? I don't think that's your intention but that is what it leads to. If SHE wants you to step in, you should. If SHE doesn't, you should honor HER and step aside.

[BlooInBloo]

98. (shrug) You all can keep saying it, it still won't be true.

I've never said, suggested, or implied that "honor" or anything similarly asinine/sexist had anything to with the matter from my standpoint.

That opinion is all you folks, and all made up.

Maybe it's true of other people, it's just not true of me.

No matter how much it's repeated.

(Back on the original topic) I just want, in the first instance to ensure that nothing of that nature happens again to my SO. After so ensuring, she is free to berate me wrt to my methods if she likes - or break up with me if she's that upset with me. But even in that bad eventuality that she does break up with me, I can at least take solace in the fact that that jackass will never attempt to harm her again.


You all are welcome to continue talking without a shred of truth about how it's all about the woman now. Cheers!

[lukasahero]

103. "without a shred of truth about how it's all about the woman"

It IS all about the woman - it happened to HER, not YOU.

I understand and appreciate your desire to protect but if you want the women in your life to trust that you will listen to them and respect their feelings, you may have to put *your* feelings aside for a while. Just saying. Doesn't sound like you want to hear what the women in this thread are telling you we want. Guess that's your right.

I've seen your posts supporting women's rights. But here it sounds like you don't want to listen and respect what women say they want and need. YOUR thoughts, your feelings in this matter are second to any woman you respect.

You come right out and say that you don't care what she wants, feels or thinks. Don't you see how this flies in the face of all you otherwise claim to support? If her feelings don't matter more than yours in this instance, you are not respecting her.

[BlooInBloo]

105. Absolutely craptacular phrasing on my part - lol - my bad...

... I think my brain went on autopilot, and flew straight into a mountain.

I meant to conclude with what the whole rest of the post was about. Something like: "now you can all continue talking, without a shred of truth about how it's all about honor, or some other sexist/demeaning/insulting/diminishing thing."

I may have already said exactly that, I don't recall... But that's what my intention was in wrapping up that post. Obviously it came out completely bass-ackward.

As you yourself note, that phraseology of mine doesn't jibe in the least with what I had been saying - you're right!

My bad.

I'll leave it up though, unless there's strong objection.

:)

[lukasahero]

109. I really, really do get what you're saying and feeling here.

Let me tell you a story about my user name. I used to be in an abusive marriage. A character in a TV series (Luka) one day finds his ex girlfriend beat up by some scumbag whose wife the ex girlfriend had been trying to help. So this character goes out and beats the crap out of the scumbag.

Some of the lines I found particularly effective are "Why don't you hit me?" "Lose your temper with me." (Luka towers in height over the guy who beat up the women.) Most guys who beat up women are punks who would never have the guts to take on someone their own size. The show and the character were playing out that fact. As a result, my user name is now (and has been for many years) lukasahero - Luka's a hero.

But that's a TV show.

I appreciate the desire to protect. I want to protect my husband as much as he wants to protect me. But what we may dream of viscerally has to take a back seat to how we behave societally. I get your emotions. I really, really do.

[BlooInBloo]

119. Okie. I still think the association of "beat up bad guy" with....

.... with "beat up good guy" (who, per the anecdotes in this thread, is typically a woman), is not appropriate, albeit understandable, given the nature of the anecdotes.

My SO is perfectly free - even welcome - to disagree, discuss, berate me, or even leave me for my response. I'm satisfied to know that this disagreement/discussion will take place against a background of that jackass never doing anything to harm my SO again.

It's not diminishing of her for me to do this, any more than it would be diminishing of me if she were to react analogously in an analogous situation. It might be *rude*, in a "cutting in line" way, but not diminishing or demeaning.

Maybe this is helpful on the "diminishing" everybody seems to be concerned about: I would likely react in the same way if I were gay, and my SO were a dude. Is THAT diminishing? If you think so, then I begin to suspect that ANY steps done in the service of another person is "diminishing" by your standards, so that by your logic, no one should ever help anyone, because help by its very nature "diminishes" whomever is helped.

[lukasahero]

120. Violence seldom helps anybody.

That's the point. The desire to help is one thing. The desire to beat someone up, to use violence to accomplish the means, to satisfy your own desires over her's is the problem. The choice to serve one's own need over the respecting the desire and request of the other is the problem.

It is also important to understand that while this reaction may "save" her from this one man, others will pop up in his place. Others who may also think the use of violence to assuage one's own feelings is appropriate.

You can't protect her from everyone and if she ends up dumping you over your actions, you won't be there to even give her comfort when it happens again. You'll feel better but she will still be vulnerable. Maybe not to this guy anymore but to the others that are out there willing to do her harm.

[BlooInBloo]

126. Why does everyone "rebut" with things that don't reflect my position?

Here's one thing violence can help: to help ensure that there is no repeat of this jackass' performance.

I didn't say anything about my "desire" to help.
I didn't say anything about my "desire to beat someone up".
I didn't say anything about my desire "to satisfy own desires over hers".

I didn't. I didn't. I didn't.

You (all) insist on "responding" to me with what appear to be canned phrases from some big book of What Girls Want From Boys,

My stance (such as it is - lol) comes down to two things:

(1) It is not "diminishing of her ability to defend herself" for me to kick that jackass' ass. Any more than it is "diminishing of her ability" to open doors for me to open the door for her. Or is it "diminishing of her ability" to pour a cup of coffee, for me to pour my SO a cup of coffee?

(2) #1 on BlooInBloo's Grand List Of Important Things is to ensure that this jackass doesn't repeat what he did. If my SO can beat me to him, and see to that herself, WONDERFUL. If I beat her to him, then I'll see to it. It's just a race - if she can beat me to him, I have no problem with that.


I'm totally open to disagreement and discussion, but it might be more helpful if one were to respond to what I'm actually concerned with, rather than sexist caricatured strawman that bears little, if any resemblance to my position.

[spooky3]

46. if I could butt in, this would be sexual harassment

she should tell him nicely that the attention is unwanted if she hasn't already. If that doesn't stop it, she should tell him she intends to inform HR or whoever handles the SH complaints where she works. The law is very clear on this--if the employer doesn't take immediate steps to stop it, they are potentially liable if she decides to file a suit. So they tend to take it a lot more seriously than they did 10 years ago.

[sojourner]

49. just what I said!

:-)

[LuckyLib]

52. Yes, indeed. And in a very quiet voice, she needs to say to

that doctor, "If you so much as ask me about the weather I will have your ass before the Hospital Board." Firmly, quietly, and with much conviction. Some of these yahoos need to be given some strong words.

[femrap]

62. Can't she just nicely grab his balls and squeeze until

his eyes nearly pop out? Then smile and say...I am being much kinder than my SO plans on being with you.

Just a suggestion.....

[spooky3]

70. Well, there's one slight problem with that strategy...

He'd probably think she was telling him she wanted him. :-)

[femrap]

122. lol....maybe he's a masochist then!

Hope the doc gets the message and realizes that professional behavior is the right way to go. Wonder if he's married??

[tavalon]

101. Assault as a response to sexual harrassment

just creates two criminals. Maybe they can share a jail cell together?

[femrap]

121. Guess you've never encountered sexual harrassment on the job...

Many of those who have gone the 'legal' route with HR have found themselves dismissed as Liars. Dismissed as fired.

I don't know...he's a doctor. She's a nurse. Now maybe this hospital does care about the truth and will listen to her, but I've seen otherwise.

I'd advise her to carry a pocketsize tape recorder and get his words recorded....then the 'he said' part of the 'he said/she said' is undeniable.

And BTW, doctors have a tendency to think of themselves as 'gods.' What they want, they get.

[tavalon]

123. Interesting

I'm a nurse. Have been one for 17 years. Guessed wrong, you did. Understand correct a few things, you do. Assumed too much, most definitely.

[femrap]

124. You've been sexually harrassed or not?

By a doctor? What assumptions?

[demobabe]

66. Sexual harrassment in the workplace is a hotbutton issue

And it seems to me a doctor has a WHOLE lot to lose by engaging in this kind of behavior.

Reputation, career, money...

One of my coworkers (exec) had this thing for inappropriately touching coworkers - he grabbed my butt at a wedding and I ended up telling him that wasn't appropriate, but another coworker sued the company and won - for several hundred thousand.

It is a big deal, companies have sexual discrimination seminars all the time, they're very aware how big of an issue it is.

[tavalon]

96. It's true that in the heirarchy, we nurses have less power than the docs

But when I've had a problem with a physician, I go through appropriate channels, up to and including reporting him/her to their board. If none of the channels (first channel being to speak with the physician privately and have a straightforward discussion) work, then I have a whole arsenal of passive aggressive things I can do. I use those as a last resort because they diminish me as well as the person I am punishing but when one is lower on the power heirarchy, sometimes it's necessary.

Trust me, no doctor who has ever crossed me has had no shit to clean up afterwards. I don't take any of that shit from them. I give them the chance to correct their behavior in a direct manner but the recalcitrant and unrepentant one's have found their sleep greatly diminished (I'm a night nurse).

I do not consider it a sign of love for a partner of mine to fight my battles for me. I consider it a sign that they think of me as weak and incapable.

[spooky3]

125. good for you for standing up for yourself, which also helps others

[Maddy McCall]

29. Yes. I can't tell you how vile the hit on me was.

I had just had a miscarriage and returned to work. He grabbed my breast (HARD) and asked me if I was still lactating, and if he could have some.

I went to talk to the head honcho, immediately. HE was on a job. So I had to wait until Monday to talk to him--I called my husband and told him that I was going home, and why, and to please wait on me at home and we would discuss it further.

Next thing I know, I got a call from the receptionist that my husband had confronted this engineer in the elevator. I was thoroughly embarassed...he not only went against my wishes, he nearly screwed everything up, since I had told no one at work what had happened to me.

In this situation, and other similar ones, my ex took away my decision-making capabilities. I was dis-empowered. It was humiliating all the way around for me.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. "I was dis-empowered."

******Exactly****** my message.

[Breeze54]

65. She should report the creep! asap!

Is this his standard MO? Resident Leech? :shrug:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+harassment

Sexual harassment can occur in a number of ways, such as:

* The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a client, a co-worker,
a teacher or professor, a schoolmate, or a stranger.

* The victim does not have to be the person directly harassed but can be
anyone who finds the behavior offensive and is affected by it.

* While adverse effects on the victim are common,
this does not have to be the case for the behavior to be unlawful.

* The victim can be male or female. The harasser can be male or female.

* The harasser does not have to be of the opposite sex.

* The harasser's behavior must be unwelcome.

* The harasser may be completely unaware that their behavior is offensive or constitutes sexual harassment,
or they may be completely unaware that their actions could be unlawful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMO, the second one applies to your son. She should report the leech to management.
Make your son happier that something is being done!
;)

[tavalon]

93. If a husband of mine chose to do that

They would be in water as hot as that doctor is. What I expect from a partner in that situation is a sympathetic ear so that I can gear up to take down (figuratively) the abusive doctor. If my partner instead went and physically assaulted said doctor, I would leave the partner.

Thanks neanderthal, but in my book, that's a lose-lose.

[Maddy McCall]

5. I wish you were my ex-husband's father.

:loveya: :thumbsup:

[Redstone]

6. Good job. You're a better man than I.

Well, I don't know about in all aspects of life, but in the being level-headed and mature department, you got me beat seventeen ways.

Again, good job.

Redstone

[Brian Stevens]

74. IMHO

A level headed dad lets his grown son make his own choices and lets him suffer consequences for mistakes.

[tavalon]

102. He's offering advice,

not putting him in restraints. And what's more, he is helping his son to be a much better man, which is the job of a father that can and often does extend past puberty.

[havocmom]

7. You're gonna make a great father-in-law!

You're already a fantastic dad!

[Ksec]

8. good sound advise

I may borrow that someday if you dont mind.

[MichiganVote]

9. Any woman who wants to can handle a jerky male

She wouldn't be the woman he loves if she couldn't too.

[IntravenousDemilo]

12. Once you finished the above conversation and moved on to "that talk"...

...did you find out where babies come from? Sorry, that's what I thought you meant -- birds, bees, etc.

But your future daughter-in-law is gonna love you for ever now, no matter what.

[SmokingJacket]

13. Hmmm... why would she say anything to him?

Men have hit on me, but I wouldn't relay that to my husband. It would just make him feel bad, or insecure, or something. I think she needs to question her motives...

Good talk, btw!!

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Well .... the backstory is ......

.... he learned of this when they were out to dinner with some friends. The women were talking about male jerks they encounter at work (it was obviously a lengthy conversation). It was a wide ranging conversation and in that context she brought this up cuz it was recent and germaine. Her motive, it seems to me, was to participate in a conversation, not some darker game with him.

[SmokingJacket]

23. I see... that's understandable! nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. That's good to hear.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. That's what I was thinking too

As a truly liberated woman, I NEVER tell my husband when another man hits on me.

[Sparkly]

27. Why not?

I'm curious. I tell mine when a kid acts up in one of my classes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. That's different

A kid acting up in one of your classes is not a threat to him. A man flirting with his wife is a threat (or he could take it that way).

Besides, I don't need my husband to solve my problems for me. A man hitting on me, a happily marrried woman (and I make no secret of that) is MY problem, not his.

We had a very good friend (or I should say we enjoyed his wife a lot) who hit on me a few times over many YEARS. I told him I respected his wife and valued her friendship too much to even consider his offer for a second. And my marriage was happy, as I had assumed his was, so I had no need to look elsewhere for sexual pleasure. I also told him that a couple minutes of pleasure would never be worth the damage the betrayal could do to my marriage and my family.

Eventually, we parted ways with this couple, just kind of drifted away, and I did tell my husband that man had hit on me a few times. He laughed, said the guy hit on other women all the time, all of our mutual friends knew it, and he thanked me for not asking him to beat him up or tell him to stop.

We still run into them once in awhile and it is very awkward. I feel very sorry for his wife, who is a genuinely nice person. I also wonder, because of his reputation as a womanizer, if maybe others wonder if we are no longer friends with them because he made a pass at me.

So I think men who do this are pigs. But I still see it as MY problem to solve, not my husband's.

[Sparkly]

57. I see what you're saying...

But I want to think I can tell my husband things without him assuming I'm asking him to "solve" it.

(On the other hand, he HAS joked that he'd be happy to take over my classes for a day and smack the kids into shape!)

I had a similar situation to the one you described, in my first marriage. The guy was the new live-in beau of my then-husband's EX! They had this thing about "let's all be pals." I guess I didn't want to make waves -- I sure did want the "ex" to be happy with this guy rather than keep interfering as she had been, so maybe it was selfish on my part... (I told him later, and he said nothing.)

I guess I did "solve" it myself, by telling him, "Are you CRAZY?!?" But I was dying to tell my then-husband and his ex what a JERK he was!

[tavalon]

108. I do, but then I'm poly so there's

pretty much nothing that I don't tell unless I forget. Or if one of my partners is uncomfortable with another of my partners knowing something personal about them, I keep that private. Otherwise, my partners know I'm a talker and pillow talk often includes talking about things with other partners both ways. I would certainly tell my partners about anything like this. And I would be shocked if it meant my partner felt diminished or emasculated. I would find that odd within my community.

We have a word in our community called compersion, which is the joy you feel at a partner's happiness with another partner.

This is somewhat off the current subject but tangential, because I think the level of security a guy has within himself helps him to behave in ways that are supportive rather than "caveman" like and that are more partner centered than self centered.

[gollygee]

45. I tell my husband everything

I can't imagine not telling him if something like that happened. He'd want to know, therefore I'd tell him. I wouldn't think anything more into it than that.

Not to say your way is wrong just everyone is different and every relationship is different, you know? It probably depends on the personalities of the couple.

[lukasahero]

97. I told my husband when a good friend hit on me

I used to get together with a considerably older gentleman I really respected for dinner - once every quarter or so. I came home one night from one of these get together's visibly upset. The reason I was upset was not that he had hit on me (I could handle that just fine, thank you) but how betrayed I felt that all these years he just wanted to get "in my pants". And here I thought all this time he liked and respected me. I was crushed.

Of course I told my husband. He, being an enlightened man like H2S, gave me comfort - he let me talk about my feelings, not his and how he felt about the situation. I never had to fear his reaction - I knew he would understand that this was something that happened to ME, not HIM. I remembered then what an honor it was to be married to this man.

[tavalon]

104. Because within an open and caring relationship

to not say something would be a sin of omission and potentially damaging to said relationship longterm.

[SmokingJacket]

107. Lots of cruelty is done in the name of being "honest" and "open" nt

[tavalon]

118. When in fact, those things are passive agressive

I've done a lot of self growth work. I can tell the difference.

[gollygee]

115. I would feel like I was being deceitful

if I didn't tell my husband something I know he'd want to know.

So yeah, I agree.

[987654321]

17. Awesome!

You are very wise and I deeply respect how you passed that wisdom on in the most perfect of ways. I used to have a problem with bludgeoning my kids with my wisdom until one of them told me that by doing so all they heard me say was blah, blah, blah! I then found I wasn't so wise after all.

Thanks for sharing!

[niyad]

41. but you are wise in knowing you don't know everything-Welcome to DU

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. I Commend You. But I Also Think It Woulda Been Ok To Rip His Larynx Out.

Rhetorically, of course.

[annabanana]

20. Husb2Sparkly, Report immediately to the

cloning chamber, for deserving liberal single gals everywhere!

[proud patriot]

21. Good Job

I thank you for all Women :bounce:

[Fovea]

30. You sir,

are THE MAN!

Great job.

[Asgaya Dihi]

32. Took me a while with that one too

I was always a bit of an aggressive kid and that didn't change a lot when I grew up, so when I got married it took a bit of time to adjust to the idea that she really didn't need anyone to stand up for her unless she asked for the help. That's only happened twice, both of which I enjoyed a great deal ;) Both never went past verbal and it's been nearly 20 years since she's asked for that much.

Guys tend to think they'll look weak if they don't stand up, but what we need to understand is that it'll maybe make her feel weak if we do. If we're doing it for her, sometimes that means not doing it at all.

[lukasahero]

100. Good job

Thanks for "getting it". :)

[usregimechange]

33. As a clinical social worker, good job!

[Kutjara]

35. Would it be OK to let your SO handle it...

...and then rip the larynx out of whatever's left?

I must confess, thorny moral dilemmas like this are sometimes beyond me.

[sojourner]

47. IMO this aggressive male response has more to do with

"protecting" property than caring about how the SO fares. That's why it's so visceral...."NO!! That's MINE!" and seems like a preprogrammed territorial and mating response that has very little to do with modern social arrangements.

[Stinky The Clown]

50. I think you're absolutely right

Men are hardwired to act that way. Its normal.

We all act that way, no matter how enlightened we'd like to think we are.

That's not to excuse the behavior when it happens. Its always wrong.

But happen it will. It has since time immemorial and will to the end of time. The best we can hope for is to understand it an try to keep it in check. Which is possible. But not always successful.

And then there's the matter of experience. Or lack of it. Growth happens. We need to nurture it. That's what old guys are for.

[LiberalPartisan]

68. Probably right...

We're all products of our biological programming - no matter how many layers of intellect, learning and 'civilisation' we've added to the mix.

[BlooInBloo]

91. It's soooo bizarre that this seems to be the unanimous belief....

... I just can't stand boys picking on girls. It's one of the most evil activities in which people can engage, imo.

It has exactly ZERO to do with "property" or anything similarly idiotic.

Possibly for some jackasses it has to do with property, but not THIS jackass.

It's bizarre that none of you seems to be able to even so much as countenance another reason for this sort of response. No other response can be even so much as imagined, except that which is demeaning.

(shrug) Whatever.

I have no problem with someone who disagrees with the response per se. But for it to be assumed as obvious that the response has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with ownership of women is just asinine.

[tavalon]

111. I don't know how old you are

but I've not been a little girl for a long, long time. That's the thing. What may have worked on the playground is not appropriate to the adult world. To fix my problems is to be my daddy. To support me while I fix my own problems is to be my adult partner.

[BlooInBloo]

127. Who's talking bout anyone being a little girl? Not me.

It's not diminishing of my SOs ability to pour a cup of coffee when I pour a cup of coffee for her.
It's not diminishing of my SOs ability to open a door when I open a door for her
It's not diminishing of my SOs ability to buy a ring when I buy a ring for her.
It's not diminishing of my SOs ability to defend herself when I defend her.

It's not, it's not, it's not, and it's not.

It's just not.

It needn't have ANYTHING WHATSOEVER with being ANYONE'S daddy. I'm sorry if that's the only way of interpreting the above that you are able to see.

[progressivebydesign]

37. I wouldn't want my husband to react that way.

I'm not his property.. I don't want him to even think about 'ripping someone's larynx out', just because the guy hit on me. I'd be majorly upset if my SO acted so.. well.. childishly about it. If my husband gets wind of someone doing that, or some guy checking me out, he just smiles, and he says it reminds him that he's lucky to have me. And he says he feels sorry for the the guys that don't. He's not worried about my running of with someone that hits on me, so he doesn't get angry. Now if the person physically did something, or forced himself on me.. then it'd be all about that larynx-ripping-out thing. But hitting on me? No way. Especially when we weren't married. I think it says something to your SO or spouse if you freak if someone comes onto them. It says that you're afraid you'll abandon them.

You did a good thing by talking to him... He wasn't really acting his age. Hopefully this won't be a pattern with him.. cuz women hate possessive men.

[niyad]

39. that was the best advice, and thank you. yes, you must be cloned at once

[fooj]

51. Wise words from a wonderful father...

:toast:

[paparush]

54. Tasers! Let the man Taser the SOB..just once..It'll feel SO GOOD!

;-)

Just kidding. Sounds like he got sound advice.

[NMDemDist2]

55. that was the one and only fight Mr. Ketchup and I ever had

he is a dragon defending those he loves and early in our relationship we had a similar situation. It was difficult to explain to him why he couldn't breathe fire and brimstone over my situation.

You are a wise man, H2S. no wonder you're one of my favoritest DUers :pals:

[troubleinwinter]

60. Ahhhh....

Thank you for a story of ordinary life. Generations yackin' & workin' & fightin'.

Things seem so bad lately to us, it was refereshing to read a story of one generation passing wisdom to the next.

Way cool. Sounds like a wonderful family. We need to keep our families as best we can.

Your family sounds fine and I am glad the young people just fight ordinary stuff. My newly married daughter is same age. I WANT them to worry this crap, not GWB issues.

I may need to take in my old hubby when shit falls apart. Don't know that I really want to talk about this, but I know that in the depression, my family took in other family people. I am the only one with a paid place. It's dinky, tiny, but paid. If shit comes down, here it is... enough for all of us.

Young folks have no idea how hard things can be. I remember buying our first raggedy shack at 18% interest. And I did not even go through the depression.

If yer kids can just argue over that stuff, cool!

I worry over more serious shit than that for our young adult kids. I worry about another 'great depression'. I worry for our young adult children.

[NanceGreggs]

61. Remarkable story ...

... told by a remarkable man.

K'd & R'd for all of those who will benefit by your wisdom.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

63. Aawww, that is so sweet and

excellent advice. Sorry to hear about her problem, but that was the best thing you could have said to him.

[Mythsaje]

64. I haven't read the thread

because I wanted to respond without any influence from the other responses.

I don't interfere in these kinds of matters, because I don't believe it's my place. Unless there is an overt threat of some kind, I have always left it up to my partner to deal with the problem.

You have to trust the other person to handle it in the way they find appropriate. I actually think it's a sign of disrespect not to do so.

On edit: Of course, I tend to choose the kind of women who don't put up with it. At all.

[LiberalPartisan]

69. He should have asked..

"If she didn't like my reaction then why did she tell me?"

[tavalon]

112. Not that I'm her, I'm not

but I would have told him so that he could supportively listen, perhaps commiserate and even offer suggestions - you know, like a friend/partner would do.

[dddem]

71. Any chance you might have a sit down with my hubby?

He honestly doesn't get why I get so angry when he wants to solve all my problems. Sometimes I just need to vent - I don't need a hero. It's nice to know some guys get it, and are willing to share their knowledge. Good Job, Dad!

[Brian Stevens]

73. You son is a GROWN man.

If he feels he needs you yank the doc's larynx because the doc hit on his woman, then let him. He will pay the price for it the hard way. When he goes to jail, don't bail him out. A lesson in personal responsibillity. Simple as that.

[Stinky The Clown]

77. That's a very sensible solution

Sensitive, too. Insightful also comes to mind.

Jail would be a good thing, come to think of it. I've been so crappy a father, and all, that my son should be made to learn lessons that way.

I wish I lived in your oh-so-simple black and white world. Life would be easier for me. We should all be punishing people for doing what they're hard wired to do. Behavior modelling and intelligent discourse - and responsible parenting - is soooooo last year, huh?

By the way, welcome to DU.

[Brian Stevens]

80. Never said you are a crappy father

Just saying that your job as the father to your son is done, he is 26, if he hasn't learned a thing from the lessons you taught him when he was growing up then it must be done the hard way. I am 33, married with a couple kids and I haven't asked my parents for anything since I was 20.

[Stinky The Clown]

87. I also have a child your age

He is, as you sayu, a grown man. That doesn't change the fact that his is still my child. In a stronmg family, a parent's role changes in direction, intensity, and frequency, but it never ceases to be.

It ofetn involves years of just waiting. There may never be a need. In the best case, they **will** never be a need. But still, one waits.

I will continue to be sensitively involved in my children's lives until my last breath.

That's a parent's obligation. And a parent's true joy.

[Brian Stevens]

110. Thats when grandchildren come into play ;) nt

[tavalon]

116. You have definitely hit my radar

as an overall cool person and I envy your son. I never had a father like that. And your concept of the parental role changing but never ending is completely simpatico with my point of view on it, even though I didn't personally get that.

[tavalon]

114. I think the job of parent certainly changes with time

and should change with time but I don't really think the job of parent really ends until the death of the parent.

[tavalon]

113. Yep, so last year!

I also wanted to mention that it is clear from some of your comments that you think highly of your son's choice in partner. That's great for them and also for you.

[Autonomy]

78. She had to know your son's reaction

would be to go ballistic, so why did she tell him? Perhaps she wanted to cause the jealous reaction. Maybe she also likes having a *doctor* hit on her. We humans like to increase our status in the pack, and the only way to do that is to a) tell your son what happened, and b) not let him retaliate, which would cause her problems, not to mention prevent the doctor from hitting on her again.

I see no evidence for your idealistic interpretation of the events. People behave to situations just like animals on a Discovery Channel documentary, with the same motives.

[Stinky The Clown]

79. Had you read this entire thread ........

.... your questions about motive would have been answered

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1246995#1247059

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1246995#1247085

And here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1246995#1247314

[Autonomy]

81. Though I phrased it in the form of a question

it wasn't really a question.

[Autonomy]

85. Husb2

I must apologize for getting involved in a personal matter in such a callous, detached manner. I shouldn't have replied in such a one-upsmanship demeanor. Your counsel certainly seems wise.

[BlooInBloo]

82. Another possibility: They have a relationship in which they communicate.

Sheesh.

It's amazing how far outta their way people'll go to ascibe malevolent intent.

[Autonomy]

83. Not malevolent, merely self-serving. nt.

[tavalon]

117. Eeewww

I can think of about a dozen other reasons! That would not have been my motivation and so, according to your understanding, I am an anomaly of nature, which, since I'm poly, that may actually be true.

[BrklynLiberal]

84. A lucky son to have you, and potential DIL is quite lucky too

:thumbsup: :hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

86. We really love the ......

'potential' DIL. :)

Saying that too loudly, as a parent, is all too often the kiss of death!

So we accept, encourage and counsel as appropriate .... and keep our distance unless invited in.

[BrklynLiberal]

88. I know EXACTLY what you mean! After having met and gotten to really

like three of my son's past girlfriends, I have told him now, that he is not to introduce them to me until he gets engaged.
I was feeling that as soon as I expressed approval, he was no longer interested in them.

I cannot handle the emotional ups and downs. :rofl:

[NoodleyAppendage]

89. Scenario assumes that she isn't trying to make your son jealous...

I don't pretend to understand the female psyche, but I can speak from experience that there are some women who get off on making their partner jealous in a twisted attempt to determine the extent of their partner's love.

J

[Stinky The Clown]

92. Buried in the deeper recesses of my various replies to this thread

you'll find that is likley not her intent.

Knowing her as i do, I am sure it was not her intent. Quite simply, she isn't the type of person who would have need to do that.

[wordpix2]

90. when my prof hit on me I ignored him until I couldn't anymore & finally

I said, "What you are saying to me could be construed as sexual harassment and I'd like you to stop."
That's all it took. The guy never made another sexual innuendo after that.

[hunter]

106. The men in my family don't even get scraps to chew on.

Whatever happened to that jerk, so-and-so?

Oh, he got fired a few months ago.

For what?

Sexual harassment

Did he harass you?

Only once.