I Love DU: Why I Am Not Donating

[RedSock]

I love DU and visit many times a day. It is my main source of news and I have used its many threads for research. I have donated in the past, but I cannot give DU another cent until it begins to treat the 9/11 Research community with the respect it deserves.

It is bad enough that no 9/11 threads can exist in LBN or GD for more than a few minutes/hours before being moved to the 9/11 dungeon. But the mods also have seen fit to move threads into the 9/11 folder that have 0% to do with the terrorist attacks -- threads about chemtrails and other conspiracy topics.

I believe DU sees the September 11 folder as the place to dump all the kooky, weird discussions that might give the board a bad name if they appeared more visible. Which is a huge slap in the face to the many researchers who have donated hours upon hours to digging up news and asking questions about the attacks.

I have written several times to the moderators about this. I suggested opening a new "Conspiracy/Strangeness" folder for these types of non-9/11 discussions. That would leave the 9/11 folder for ... discussion of 9/11.

I have never received a reply.

Once DU changes its unstated policy on 9/11 discussion, then I will open my wallet.

[Maddy McCall]

1. That's your prerogative. But remember...

you were allowed to express your opinion on why you're not donating.

It's pretty shitty of you to do this, during the campaign. Why not take it up with Skinner, instead of trying to manipulate people into NOT donating.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Sounds like he has taken it up with Skinner

I have wondered about this too. I posted a story a few weeks ago that had nothing to do with 9/11, but it got moved to the 9/111 forum. I still don't get it.

[johnnie]

11. It's not as shitty...

As the people the last few days that have mocked, ridiculed and tried their best to drive away anyone who was holding out hope for an indictment this week.

All I could think about is new members who were on the fence about donating to this place and seeing member attacking members, calling out members and trashing each other because they believed in a news story. I can bet that we lost some donations and quite possibly some people that might have been terrific members of this community.

I think DU is one of the, if not the best political site on the Internet and I would encourage everyone to donate and help us continue operate at the level we have been, but thanks to a handful of people here I am sure that some new members were put off.

[Maddy McCall]

24. I'm not going to get into that with you--not here, not now.

Except to say that, over the past week, it could have been quite the opposite.

If you want to talk about the Rove/Leopold thing, take it to the designated thread.

[johnnie]

27. It's not about the Rove/Leopold thing

I was responding to what you said about someone doing something shitty during the campaign.

[Maddy McCall]

31. The fund-raising campaign.

I thought that was obvious, considering that's what this thread is about.

[johnnie]

32. Exactly

That's what I'm talking about.

[emcguffie]

86. I'd say this remark is pretty shitty of you. NT

[JI7]

109. what's shitty about what she said ?

the person uses this site to post the things they complain are not being allowed in all the forums. yet they still use this site and make some huge announcement about not being given respect and during a campaign drive.

i agree with her and everyone else who disagrees with the OP.

[Oversea Visitor]

130. grrrrrr

disruptor x(

[BeHereNow]

136. No...you see, "black is white and white is black" these days!

How dare you disagree with that?
HERE?
On DU?
BHN

[NMDemDist2]

2. I gotta say that's the dumbest excuse I've ever heard for not supporting

what you admit is an excellent POLITICAL/NEWS website whose bandwidth you suck up daily.

there are plenty of 9/11 sites and conspiracy sites and any other tin foil hattyness sites to visit

but demanding that DU adhere to your particular quirk OR ELSE is just short sighted or arrogant or dumb or possibly all three

but hey, whatever blows your skirt up :shrug:

[MissB]

3. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[TahitiNut]

30. I tend to agree. The position seems to be ...

... "Even though I can post in a forum dedicated to the topic in which I'm interested, and where folks who share that interest can go to discuss it, I want to post where there are people who have little or no interest in what I'm posting."

I see similar 'thinking' in the crowd who want mandatory prayer in public schools. Even though any individual student is totally free to engage in individual prayer with their concept of a Creator, they want to hijack an audience assembled for other interests and coerce their particular concept of prayer.

Individuals behave in similar ways in 'polite' company, insisting on uninterrupted attention to their oratory, no matter whether it's of interest to the other individual(s), and complaining about 'rudeness' if the other person(s) asserts ownership of their own ears. Somehow, the idea of respecting the interests of others just doesn't seem to be two-way. Go figure.

[libertypirate]

38. No arrogant is trying to tell someone they have no beef without

first trying to understand their point of view...

I know you view, I see it every day afraid of what might be found lurking under the tin foil...

Please, the man didn't say "or else" anything and you put your own context to another persons words. You haven't learned much about how the media operates I can tell...

[Canuckistanian]

48. I agree, half-heartedly

There are some subjects that tend to take a life of their own and oveshadow other relevant issues.
Not to mention that threads tend to go supernova over small comments or details. 9/11 theories tend to do that.

THIS is the exact reason why there is a separate forum for Palestine/Israel issues.

Agreed, there are plenty of 9/11 sites out there and I read them too.

But DU must remain a site where issues can be focussed on individually, without being sidetracked by excessive emotion.

[Adelante]

5. Pay up

You use the site "many" times a day. Pay up.

[Catherine Vincent]

57. Gosh, that's pretty forward of you.

[Robbien]

6. Hey, at least you got a forum. My favorite forum was dropped out

of DU altogether in the change. Foreign Affairs was a great forum and I mourn its loss.

That doesn't change my donation though.

[BeHereNow]

54. I am so with you on that Robbien. Foreign Affairs was great.

Why did it get eliminated anyway?
Some of the more intelligent and thoughtful
discussions happened in that forum.
They sure beat the hell out of the
"right-wing talk show host" approach I see
more and more of here on DU.
Hard to tell the so called "left" from the
so called "right" these days, eh?
Reminds me of Orwell's Animal Farm more and more.
Remember the part where the animals discover
that the Animal Farm "laws" have been changed on the side of the
barn?
BHN

[Robbien]

132. Don't know why they dropped it, it was pretty active

Now whereever one posts a foreign affairs news story it quickly rolls off into oblivion. I learned so much about foreign affairs from DUers that old forum.

Oh well, gotta roll with the times.

[Hissyspit]

7. That's nit-picky, IMO.

There are all kinds of little quirks about this discussion forum and website I could complain about, and occassionally do, but the only legitimate excuse for not donating, best I can see, is that if one quits coming to the board and posting, or one cannot afford to donate because of their financial situation.

[Hugin]

8. I somewhat agree...

Since those events were so pivotal in decisions made by
the ongoing Mis-Administration, I think they warrant a close
and careful look. To sort what is real from the fiction
and hubris surrounding it and shouldn't have to compete
with the other admittedly less important topics.

That said, I hope Skinner considers your request and
its a shame you've had to go to these extremes to be
heard.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. Nobody believes more that 9/11 involves a conspiracy than my sister, BUT..

She believes the #1 most important objective is to get the GOP *****'s out of office and from running our country. This being the case, she puts her desire to discuss any 9/11 conspiracy behind her desire to impeach Bush, the entire Bush administration, and get rid of all Republicans, from the presidency on down to the school boards.

[Nevernose]

10. I'm not a 9/11 researcher/theorist/anything else, but I agree, partially

Much of the 9/11 stuff in LBN shouldn't be there, because it's not LBN. The rules are stricter there for a reason, and sometimes too strict. But everyone is treated unfairly equally in LBN.

GD is another matter. A lot of the stuff posted here should really, really be Lounge material ("I'm leaving DU!" "My cat is sick!" "Please pray for me!"). While I sympathize and am interested in many of these posts, they in no way have anything to do with politics, and should thus be referred elsewhere.

If you want to start a new folder, you need to get people to second the motion and have a bunch of people who want a new section. Usually this isn't to segregate people, though (even if a Conspiracy Theory thread is a good idea), but to bond people who have a common interest.

Part of it has to do w/ the reading habits of DU. We seem to read only a few forums, like GD, GDP, LBN, and or Lounge, and that's it. ALl the other folders seem to be the place where good posts go to wither and die.

My suggestion would be to add a forum for current breaking news, so that my pet peeve of 400 threads all recounting a single news story in GD would be relieved (if memory serves, that's why they made GDP in the first place, so the 2004 election wouldn't dominate).

Personally, I'd prefer it if the hard-working, unpaid mods did a much bigger hatchet job on the main forums, but it's probably not all that feasible.

On edit: corrected an accidental smiley face, and would like to say, in the interest of fairness, that although I have a star, this particular month I gave my budgeted charitable donation to the ACLU and a gift membership in NOW for my daughter. Sue me for being a hypocrite.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. None Of Us Give A Shit Why You Don't. Seriously. And If You Did Love DU

, and could afford it, you would donate in my opinion. Who gives a shit if they don't do everything every single fucking way you want them to. You have any idea how selfish of a mentality that comes off as? You say you love this place and all you get from it, yet refuse to donate. Well if you do love it that much and do get that much from it, then you show it by supporting them, period.

So they move 9-11 discussions to the 9-11 forum. Big fucking deal. Be thankful they even have one where the discussion can take place at all.

[emcguffie]

91. Please grow up.

Nobody is required to donate. Why do you think that is?

When folks are required to donate in order to post in any forum, then they will have to donate. Until that time, they are not required to donate. What does that say to you?

That they are NOT REQUIRED TO DONATE? Do you speak English?

Excuse me for reacting, but to me it is Repubs who cannot bear it when everyone does not agree with them. If someone does not agree with you, I suggest you shrug your shoulders, say, God bless all of us, and walk on. Thank goodness we can disagree. Who are you to say we must all do as you say? Puhleeze.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

96. No One Said Otherwise.

It isn't about disagreeing. It isn't about not wanting to donate.

It's about calling out DU publicly for the most petty of reasons.

And enough of your false preaching. I have every fucking right to think it's distasteful to post shit like this and then respond my feelings as such. Fact of the matter is that you are the one getting bent out of shape that I don't agree, not the other way around. So get a grip.

[libertypirate]

121. Your problem is really that you can't take other opinions seriously

enough to believe them valid...

This is about calling DU out publicly, it's not petty to desire truth be told and it to be relevant.

Who is preaching, your the person devaluating an opinion you don't agree. That's preaching I understand your gripe with the post and petty is 20 something post later to defend an attack on someone’s opinion.

Do you know how pathetic you look?

[Pastiche423]

126. WRONG!

I give a shit! Don't you dare try to talk for all of us here. And don't you ever try to talk for me!

The attack on September 11, 2001 was the most important event in my lifetime and for my country. It is what has been used by the present administration for everything they've wanted for the last thirty years.

I feel really sorry for anyone that doesn't realize the reality of what went down that day.

[BeHereNow]

133. You do realize that this thread is a future transcript for

a right wing radio talk show, don't you?
LOL!!!
Replying here is equivalant to "calling in..."
HEH-HEH!!!
But just think, we can all say,
"WE knew him back when..."
BHN

[Pastiche423]

138. What the hell are you talking about?

[libertypirate]

13. I stand with you my brother in truth, same reason I will not donate...

I feel like a traitor to my country if I helped promote the lies of 9/11...

The truth will set you free, only if your free to see the truth.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Then Why Are You Here? Do You Not Use The Site? Do You Not

learn the truth here? Do you not appreciate all the things that can be found here? Do you not read the plethora of valuable things here?

Well if you do, then there are a ton of reasons for you to donate, regardless of if you have one petty ass reason not to.

And if you don't do those things above, then WTF ya here in the first place.

Most stupid fuckin reason I've ever seen for not donating, Period.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Hugin]

19. If you check the OP's profile they've been here since 2001.

Just saying.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Why Should I Give A Shit About That? Has Absolutely NADA To Do With My

message. Maybe you judge people by the date they joined, but I don't. I post what I feel, and never check people's profiles for a reason such as that.

Just sayin

[Hugin]

22. It's a legitimate and well reasoned complaint.

Which is more than I can say about your attacks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. You Can Perceive It However You'd Like. I Consider The OP An Attack On DU

And I don't consider it to be legitimate in the slightest. In fact, I find it extremely insensitive, immature, self serving, and simply petty.

I consider being a DU'er a priviledge and an honor. To publicly call out the site in such a manner, and declare it not worthy of a donation, is just plain disgusting to me and most definitely not worthy of respect.

What I've posted aren't attacks. They are how I feel about the situation. Posts are there to be replied to with honesty. I replied to their context with mine.

[libertypirate]

34. BS, they are attacks don't pander to us...

It must be nice to have the luxury of ignorance, something I don't think we can afford as a country that goes to wars based on total lies...

A true honest American will always challenge their own world view before attacking the feelings of others.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[libertypirate]

53. Do you like putting words in my mouth?

because this entire post is like you bend over and drop a big load of bullshit out your pants leg...

You keep telling me what I am thinking and hell I am sure you will believe it...

How could you know what I think or believe keep playing games and you will keep watching people die!

I am tired of watching people die so others can, be well...

This is just like having an argument with a talking head attack around the point so you don't have to deal with the point...

You might want to stop percieving what other people think of DU, it's unhealthy.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. You Put The Words Down Yourself Bub.

And based on the characteristics of your replies it is of no wonder to me now why you are so emphatic about 9-11 conspiracy theories...

[libertypirate]

72. I never talked about a theory if you would like to go to the DU

9/11 dungeon I would wipe the floor with you.... Let me be clear, theorizing and conspiratorial bull is to hide the facts and the facts "Mr Mad" because I don't like someone’s post, is the reality that happen to I carry with me...

Why, simple, I carry the truth of 9-11 with me because only then it lives on..

How dare you, how dare you attack me based on you beliefs what kind of a tool are you?

You cannot stand that a persons opinion exists which defies your beliefs.

How dare you blame the person with the opinion.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. You've Got Serious Reading Comprehension Issues.

If you want to keep going round and round with these absurd notions that I'm attacking your beliefs on what happened on 9-11 I can't stop you. But it's ridiculous. I've stated multiple times already this has nothing to do with that. It has to do with your complete disrespect of this site that I love. So stop the delusional replies already that I'm actually against your beliefs of 9-11. Ain't got nothin to do with that.

And you couldn't wipe the floor with me on anything. So get over yourself.

[libertypirate]

93. Oh ouch now I can't read, I can't comprehend...

Did I say anything about my 9-11 belief being at issue, no the reading comprehension arrives when you want to change the subject...

"It has to do with your complete disrespect of this site that I love."

This is what the republicans do when they want to try and back someone down, go Cheney yourself!

The floor with you would be simple you walk around deny, discredit, and distract as a means to make any point. Please, the floor with someone who changes the subject constantly is easy....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. "Did I say anything about my 9-11 belief being at issue"

Ummm, yeah. Like a brazillion times.

:rofl:

[libertypirate]

105. Fishing??? Trying reel me in...

I will keep playing your ass until it's chapped buddy....

Just keep posting...

Who's laughing now?

[BeHereNow]

111. I am!!! LOL!!!

:popcorn:
Brilliant libertypirate.
Are you, by any chance, that caller I hear that
stumps the right wing talk host I hear every now and
then?
BWAHAHAHA...
This is BETTER than radio and I may just have to donate
after all!
BHN

[libertypirate]

26. Way wrong answer....

Do you have a conscious?

Can you hold you head up high, while living lies imposed upon you?

It is called honor, it is called patriotism... It's called not capitulating my dignity for temporary and ancillary benefit. I can't help it if giving a shit makes you play a violin, but I care about my people and the country I still love, most of all no matter what no matter how bad I deserve nothing but the truth, and my fellow peoples if you too believe in this country you wouldn't pander for temporary sanity; you too would demand the truth...

But instead weak minded fools tend to play violins and attempt to tell people they are being stupid for actually caring.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Actually It Was Dead On.

And your rush to judgements are not only disturbing, but show a tendency for irrational thinking.

I haven't mentioned a thing about how I feel about 9-11. I most certainly don't buy the governments official story and have done extensive research on all topics of 9-11. So your misguided preaching is extremely inaccurate and plain old wrong.

But 9-11 conspiracy theories aside, my posts had nothing to do with them and all to do with the fact that if you're here, use the site, appreciate the site and are a member of the site, then calling it out and smearing it while declaring you refuse to donate is just plain stupid.

So fucking what. They move your poor wittle posts to the 9-11 forum. Be thankful they have a forum for you to post those things at all, and that you have the privilege of being a member of the best democratic site on the web.

Get over yourself. Seriously.

[libertypirate]

45. You know what happens when you give your dignity away for free?

It gets taken away....

I don't give away something I think is precious, money I could give a shit about, but my dignity sorry that's not bullshit or irrational.

Anyone who says that 9/11 was an inside job is not thinking of themselves...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. What Part Do You NOT Understand

If you truly feel that way, and are that bitter about DU and the way they run the forums, then why the fuck are you here?

And no, I'm not calling you a freeper as this has nothing to do with that. It has to do with you publicly calling out a site that we love, and doing so in such a way that is quite bitter. Well if you detest this forum that much then why the hell are you wasting your time and our time by being here? And I ask that seriously.

[libertypirate]

58. If you truly love this site you would acknowledge what is wrong with it

and not mock those that do...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

68. I Never Claimed It To Be Perfect. But There Is A Difference Between That

and calling the entire site out publicly and saying it isn't worthy of donation BECAUSE IT IS NOT PERFECT.

That's the whole fucking issue here. That of all the incredible things to be found here, that because of one slight aspect of it that you consider to not be perfect, it erases all those other things and is not worthy of a couple dollars from your precious wallet.

Just imagine if all things in the world had rise to your expectation of perfection in order to be considered worthy. Truly sad.

[libertypirate]

85. Just not perfect is like having a hairy mole on the end of your nose...

Allowing something so wrong and false to exist and go unchallenged is pathetic, and I find it in bad taste....

Then to push it off into a "Looney bin" forum that just happens to be labeled the 9-11 forum is unbecoming of anything that tries to call itself democratic.

[BeHereNow]

61. OMC, why are you attacking a fellow DUer for

Expressing his/her feelings?
If you were Bill O'lielly, I would fully
expect you to tell the poster to "Shut UP"
in your next post.
What do you care about how the OP feels
anyway?
Why not put the thread on ignore if
it bothers you so.
I think Skinner and company can take
care of themselves.
What the hell is this lockstep mentality
on DU lately anyway?
Do not dare criticize Bush and
do not dare criticize DU.
So what's the difference between the
"left" and "right" if that is standard at DU now?
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

67. Oh Please. It's Called Replying. It Happens Here Ya Know.

And sometimes, topics are posted that bring out emotion, such as when someone calls out DU, a site I love, and smacks them in the face.

They expressed their feelings, I expressed mine. And if you think it's ok to publicly call out and criticize DU, the very site we're on, then so be it.

But I do not. I find it pathetic.

[BeHereNow]

79. My litmus test for "replying" vesus "reacting:"

I take the post, in this case yours, and give it a
radio voice.
Your "replies" lend themselves easily
to certain talk show radio hosts I avoid.

You make NO attempt to discuss or understand the feelings of
the person you address.
Who does that remind YOU of?
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

99. Because I Have No Desire To.

Fact is I don't give a rats ass about the feelings and sentiment. It is absolutely NO EXCUSE for posting shit like this and calling out DU publicly in such a manner, during the fund drive.

And why I'm even continuing to reply in this bullshit thread is beyond me. I said what I needed to say and that's good enough. I think this thread is bullshit. Don't really need to say more than that. I'm out.

[BeHereNow]

103. You know, that sounds familiar...

I remember someone else saying,
"Who cares what you think?"
You sort of remind me of that fellow...
BHN

[libertypirate]

115. Do you realize that you are saying there is "NO EXCUSE" for an

opinion you do not agree with?

Maybe you should rethink that...

[BeHereNow]

134. NO! No need to rethink that!

This thread has
officially become an audition for a new Faux news radio talk show!
I'd say OMC has ACED the audition!!!
I'm calling my agent to alert him to this new talent!
I'll get a finders fee and everything!
BHN

[emcguffie]

95. Once again, I say --

-- have you made sure the rules here at DU have been changed?

Are you the new dictator here? Must everyone agree with you in order to be allowed to post? Must everyone donate according to your desire in order to be allowed to post? No? Why not, I wonder? Don't you make the rules?

Why don't you make the rules? Gee, you mean you're not the dictator? Oh, too bad. Maybe we should do away with that nasty old amendment about free speech that we spend so much time bloviating about. Maybe only people who "donate" should be allowed the privilege of free speech.

What is it with you? Are you just so young that you are a member of the new, lost generations? The ones that the Repubs have made sure do not know how to think critically? Is that why you cannot think?

Excuse me for my temper tantrum. You have been unconscionably rude to someone who disagrees with you, so I am jumping all over you. How dare you.

[Mr_Spock]

14. Ooooooooh shit - this isn't going to go over too well.

Blackmailing DU in front of everyone is going to go over like a lead balloon :(

[msanger]

21. after almost two years away....

I have been lurking on DU and KOS since the presidential election - somewhat dispirited by our having lost. I used to have a "shop to drop bush" site - that raised about 600 buck for move-on.org, and an anybodybutbush blog - that was pretty amateurish.

Anyway, I have been dropping in on DU a couple of times a day for the last month or so, and today had the moderators send me a my password, so I could donate.

I guess everybody has their reasons to donate or not donate, but do you really think that NOT giving the site 5 bucks is going to get them to change their policy? I mean - withholding FIVE bucks is not a lot of leverage.

On a different note - what does it take to become a moderator - and could you become one and thus control what gets sent where?

[Vinnie From Indy]

15. That's cool!

DU has room for idiots too! Who knows? Keep it up and you might be voted most likely to be a dickwad!

[libertypirate]

17. I guess freedom of speech is too much for some people... /nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

18. Is anything really FREE?

Hmmmm?

[FogerRox]

28. I do have some sympathy for the 9-11 forum folks

I tried to recommend a thread there, the other day, I was not allowed to.

My fav forum is Election Reform, over there we also feel like we got stuffed into the basement, and the poster on Foriegn Affairs, has simialar feelings.

[libertypirate]

35. Just what is in your mind, your soul, and your heart.... /nt

[Horse with no Name]

23. I love DU

I donated. I felt as if I really had no choice when you consider how much time I spend here.
However, I feel that you have a valid concern.
How many times on this very message board do we stress to others to write to networks, talking heads, LTTE's...just to tell them why we WON'T be supporting them.
We encourage each other to "put our money where our mouth is".
Shame on the ones that are faulting you for doing just that. Tends to be a tad hypocritical.
It appears that you have attempted to have your grievance addressed, without success.
I sincerely hope you are able to get a satisfactory response and when you do, donate at that time.

[PurgedVoter]

29. I respect your decision, but I still plan to donate next payday.

One of the great qualities of this group is that it tries to keep facts straight. Even if a fact looks good, if it is not fairly well provable it gets brushed to the side. I like this.

I like the constant effort to keep DU from loosing reputation by falling into the "fact traps" that we have seen the Rovian Right set up. Lots of folk were quite upset this week because Skinner trusted a source that has a history of both being first with valid information and with not checking their sources well.

We are all fairly scared of falling for a planted document about * deserting his posts. It is sad that we who comment on a blog must be held to a higher standard than Fox News. Still, when we look at the things we full well know today about *, PNAC, The Christian Right and the RNC, we can prove things that in a normal world would be considered well into wacky.

I do not like the way that 911 research is handled here. I however see the need for not letting it dominate all forums. I suspect it would if allowed to. Anyone who is paying attention knows that *, his cronies, PNAC, and the wealthy shadows behind them are to blame for a lot more than just 911. Infant mortality, national ethics, constitutional law, racism, poverty, national debt, secret prisons, wire taps, are just a few of the things we know about.

I do not like the way a lot of things are handled here. However, I believe in democracy. I also believe in getting out of the way when someone else is doing the work. And I believe that good work is being done here. The DU is apparently not the ideal heaven for 911 research. Fine, make that ideal heaven for 911 research, and for what my tiny contributions are worth, I will donate to it too. And I will also bet you a cookie, that DU will put a link to it on their front page.

And by the way, I recommended this.

[PatriotMom]

33. I agree with you RedSock 100% nt kicked and nominated

[Snivi Yllom]

37. There is a reason conspiracy kook and 9/11 conspiracies get lumped in

Be happy there is a thread devoted to your interest.

If its not good enough, the internet is a big place.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. You Posted This An Hour Ago. You Haven't Replied.

Hit and run posts are for cowards.

Just sayin.

[RedSock]

47. I'm at work, actually.

Working a 14-hour day. ... Is that alright with you?

you resent them so much for not letting your precious conspiracy theories be on the front page.

Wrong. I never said that.

if anyone doesn't agree that the 9-11 forum should be front center and all important and the main reason for donating, that they must be ignorant and a fool.

Wrong again. Never said that either.

My sole objections?

(1) The various moderators -- whoever they may be -- dumping threads about chemtrails and aliens into the 9/11 folder.

(2) Moving roughly 90% of all 9/11 discussion to the 9/11 folder within minutes of its posting.

That's it.

It seems to me -- and I am far from alone -- that the mods would prefer that many discussion of 9/11 be held off in the dungeon.

Some 9/11 topics have been left in LBN -- when they are national news and talked about 24 hours a day on cable news. Though sometimes not even then.

The hypocrisy is obvious. Stories about events in Montana or Vermont or Alaska are not immediately moved to the respective State folder. Why not?

Honestly, all I want is an honest explanation. And part of my reason for posting this was perhaps to get one. Actually emailing the moderators has gotten me nothing. (And other posters have experienced the same non-response.)

So if there are any mods reading this, please, answer this question: "Why are threads about aliens and chemtrails moved immediately to the 9/11 folder?"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. No Shit You Didn't Say It. You Quoted My Reply To Someone Else LMAO!

[RedSock]

55. hmmm

i see that is true.

However you did post this to my original post:

None Of Us Give A Shit Why You Don't. Seriously. And If You Did Love DU, and could afford it, you would donate in my opinion. Who gives a shit if they don't do everything every single fucking way you want them to. You have any idea how selfish of a mentality that comes off as? You say you love this place and all you get from it, yet refuse to donate. Well if you do love it that much and do get that much from it, then you show it by supporting them, period. So they move 9-11 discussions to the 9-11 forum. Big fucking deal. Be thankful they even have one where the discussion can take place at all.

pretty much the same thing, i'd say. ... and i don't care what you say, this:

But 9-11 conspiracy theories aside, my posts had nothing to do with them and all to do with the fact that if you're here, use the site, appreciate the site and are a member of the site, then calling it out and smearing it while declaring you refuse to donate is just plain stupid. So fucking what. They move your poor wittle posts to the 9-11 forum

sure sounds like it is also directed at me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

65. Well That One Was Directed At You. At Least You Quoted The Right One

this time.

I stand by it. You go on about how you love DU but refuse to donate for one stupid reason. And if that wasn't bad enough, you even had to take it to the level of posting it in a public manner as if we at DU care why you do or don't donate, or about your petty gripes.

If you love DU and can afford a little, then donate. If you are that bitter about one small aspect of DU that it erases all the amazingly wonderful things that can be found here and causes you to refuse to donate and call out the site publicly, then I am sorry, you don't love DU.

[RedSock]

78. Dear OPERATIONMINDCRIME:

I end my work day at 1:00 am. I will then drive home and go to sleep.

While I am sleeping, I will not be posting on this forum.

I don't want you to think I am a coward while I am busy snoring away.

[BeHereNow]

100. HOW DARE YOU??? SLEEP? AND POST...

criticisms of DU?
What are you, a LIBERAL?
Get in step and shout Rah-rah-rah or
you'll be attacked for not resembling a bushbot here on DU!
Got it?
LOL...
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

101. 100% Have To Offer My Apologies For That, Regardless Of How I Feel.

I was wrong there, and you have shown you can reply just fine. I take that comment back and apologize for having thought otherwise.

[RedSock]

113. thanks

i would request that you type your responses in the same civil tone i suspect you would use if we were talking face to face.

[KoKo]

118. Is that who that is. I wondered..

when I tried to read this thread and saw so many "Ignored."

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. Me? LMAO!!!!!! Talk About Irony! LOL None Of Those Were To You!

Do you not know how DU works? That after a main reply, other people reply, and then even more people might reply to those who replied previously?

All of the posts you're referring to were to somebody else. It is clear they were to somebody else. So check yourself buddy.

[BeHereNow]

64. Not to worry Redsock- more than one of us has noticed that.

Hugs-
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. You Realize He Was Wrong And Was Reading Posts That Weren't To Him,

don't you?

:rofl:

Guess you didn't notice anything after all then LOL

[BeHereNow]

83. This is a DISCUSSION forum.

That means when you post, everyone reads it and
is supposedly welcome to address what you post.
Perhaps you should PM more often?
BHN

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

106. "Thick headed" that's nice...

I REALLY think you should get your own
right wing radio talk show- you have the name calling rhetoric down
so well...
BHN

[libertypirate]

124. He does the three D's well deny, discredit, distract... /nt

[BeHereNow]

137. You forgot to add.."ignore" all reality. n/t

bhn

[Berserker]

41. Although I disagree with

your not donating to DU I do agree with where you stand and should be addressed by the sites owners and not ignored. It is better to donate and be heard than to not donate and be unable to post in your favorite parts of the forums. Good luck in your endeavor.

[Opening_Day]

42. Crazy is

as crazy does. Do you spend all your time folding $20 bills into Twin Towers? That surely proves that Flight 93 was transporting a cruise missile doesn't it?

[Horse with no Name]

43. What's REALLY crazy is

someone joining a message board just to disrupt. I have never understood why someone would do that?
It's a colossal waste of their time...makes me wonder why they don't just spend their energies and efforts with like-minded people...

[scorpiogirl]

44. Nice attitude

:eyes:

[noamnety]

51. Usually to get a new group started here

you have to get a certain number of donating members to endorse it. Has the 9/11 group tried that process to get a new non-911 conspiracy group opened up?

[RedSock]

60. i don't think so

i see the instructions in the FAQ. i didn't know about that.

thanks a lot.

[noamnety]

81. I suspect you'll get enough support for it

I don't have a problem with 9/11 stuff having its own forum, just as I don't have a problem with the women's rights group having its own forum - it's like having a file cabinet to keep things organized, not like one folder is more important than the other. I think you have a valid point that the usefulness of the file cabinet as an organizational tool falls apart if you start putting your underwear and socks in the same folder as your tax returns, so to speak. On that basis alone, I would support moving conspiracy-related items about chem trails or other random things someplace other than a folder called September 11.

If we had a generic conspiracy forum, maybe people could use it not just for breaking news and speculation, but also as a sort of historical library for things like Iran-Contra, false newspaper stories that were planted like the incubator babies, and so forth. Think about how you'd write up the mission or rules - it should be something that fosters a positive direction for the forum. Even if you're secretly thinking "post your tinfoil crap here so it's not cluttering up my Sept 11 forum" would make a nice mission statement - and I know you are - try to think larger than that, so it can become a useful tool in its own right.

I'd start a new thread in the Sept 11 forum to brainstorm ideas for a mission statement, or whatever the FAQ calls them. I remember seeing some other threads where they thrashed that out jointly before moving ahead formally.

[Hugin]

87. Great post!

Finally someone around here who reads an OP!

Congratulations and I agree completely.

:toast:

[RedSock]

112. i did exactly that

i started a thread there a little while ago -- thanks for your suggestion.

just so no one misunderstands: i think the separate folders for topics here is a great idea. it just needs some refining.

[survivor999]

56. C'mon, you use bandwidth and all...

Donating a few bucks seems just fair...

[Beausoir]

59. Nicely buttered bread on both sides. What board DO you donate to?

I'm interested to know. Which boards are deemed worthy of your "wallet"?

[RedSock]

63. cooperative reasearch

only one at the moment:

that's the home of paul thompson's timeline, for which i have done a fair amount of writing, editing and proofreading.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

66. Get over yourself.

If you use DU that much, then donate, like many of us have.

[Maddy McCall]

70. No shit! Because OUR donations are paying for this cyberpout.

:eyes:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. Exactly.

Actually, this thread reminded me TO donate -- my sticky is the black "Good night, and good luck" one up there.

I just saw the movie, and it's the first thing that popped in my head.

:hi:

[Maddy McCall]

82. My sticky's on the...

next page...15 rows down, two across. It's MMjr eating crawfish...says "Give me Crawfish or Give me Death!"

LOL.

:hi:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

92. LOL, nice!

:hi:

[libertypirate]

128. Sounds republican to deny someone because the value they

contribute is less then yours....

Wow, just freaking wow...

To say the value of what someone says is not worthy because they choose not to do something you did.

[JI7]

107. yup

[Maddy McCall]

69. What a goddam whinefest. Call the Waaaambulance!!!

Waaa! DU isn't run exactly like I want, so I'm going to make OTHER people pay for the bandwidth I use.

What a fucking crock of an excuse.

[RedSock]

73. strawman alert

DU isn't run exactly like I want

yeah that's exactly what i am demanding.

:crazy:

[Maddy McCall]

76. You have your pet complaints, as does everyone else.

It's not a strawman...it's exactly what you said.

If we all put in our demands and expected admin to structure the forums to each individual's pleasure, then there would be disorganized chaos at DU.

If you don't like it, don't visit. It's as simple as that.

(I've had my gripes through the years, but I'd NEVER withhold a donation simply because Skinner administers DU unlike my ideal.)

[RedSock]

88. where did I say

where did I say that I want DU "run exactly like I want"?

[Maddy McCall]

98. You love DU except for (insert pet complaint here).

Yeah, so what? We all have complaints.

Your pet complaint is that you want the 9/11 forum to be treated with more respect.

You don't get your way all the time. I don't get mine all the time.

But I open my wallet for something I love, and you should, too.

Have you tried to discuss this with Skinner? He's never ignored any email I've ever sent him.

[RedSock]

110. GOD -- yes

i wrote that at the very top. several emails -- all ignored.

and i know other posters who have asked the same thing and also received no response.

[Maddy McCall]

117. For that, I am sorry.

You should have received a response from someone about your concerns. :(

[BeHereNow]

94. You noticed that too? This board is burning up with strawmen lately...

Which is why I spend less and less time here.
I can turn on right wing talk radio and get the same result.
BHN

[alittlelark]

74. ....sigh....

whatever.
Create your own site w/ all the (^5*(9'&^) you want in it.
Why be here if you do not support the sites mission?

I would also prefer more 9-11 discussion, but I can go to a forum dedicated to it.

[RedSock]

84. reading comprehension is a lost art

would also prefer more 9-11 discussion,

That is not what I am asking for. There is plenty of 9/11 discussion here. More than I can read in my free time. It is the apparent attitude towards that discussion that irks me.

Some people agree with me, some do not. That's what I expected.

If I had received a response to one of my emails from the mods, this threads would probably not exist.

[alittlelark]

104. Get a star - I don't discuss issues w/ those w/o one.

My personal prejudice.

[titoresque]

127. And you're proud of this?

Why? I'm curious.

[alittlelark]

142. WHY? Well, it has to do w/ commitment and trolls

Many trolls have very high post #'s and no star.

The scary ones have stars.


Lets say I'm into some Pro sport. I am on a message board that deals w/ pro sports. Many on the board are COMMITTED - they donate to support the board and post very relevant info for my team/sport, some are occasional posters (not COMMITTED), they don't donate, but they have decent input. Others just come in and diss my team, they often make no sense and don't even appear to understand the game.


That's why.

[titoresque]

143. seems like you might miss out on

some very interesting people, if not conversation.
I've been here for over a year. It might be close to two now?
Just got my star a few day's ago. I've been committed to this forum. But my reasons for not donating, and for donating are mine.
I ocassionally look at a persons post count. But I've never paid attention to stars. Probably because I trust myself, and I know my reasons have had nothing to do with committment.....so I don't project that onto anyone else via prejudice.

[alittlelark]

144. Your reasons are your reasons.

They are not mine. I donate to KPFA to the tune of $300 a year. I donate to the ASPCA at a similar level.

I do not agree w/100% of their positions, but they are the best that I can find out there.


DU is a clearinghouse for Progressive thought - I may not agree w/100% of it, but it's the closest I can get.


PS - Stars MATTER..

[progressoid]

80. Okey Dokey. I'll donate extra if they delete all the MIHOP threads

So there NYA NYA NYA.

:P

Of course, I'm beyond broke & I can't donate this round so that's an empty threat.

[titoresque]

90. oh that's free speech in action

good grief.

[titoresque]

89. It doesn't matter what any of us think

You're making a stand for something you believe in and that's why we're all here.
Everyone calling you names. Everyone agreeing with you. We're all here because we're the types who stand up for our cause.

I commend you for that!

And thank you for sharing your reason. I've read others who have shared why they have donated, it's nice to hear another view.

[RedSock]

108. here are some examples of what i mean

All are in the 9/11 folder and all have 0% to do with 9/11.

Comet Collision with Earth on May 25, 2006!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x83475

The Lost Cities on Mars
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x81283

Dr. Bob Bowman - on the ballot in Florida!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x82828

Is Bush an alien?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x81368

Jake is now walking on the leash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x76903

Could Katrina evacuees be in Detention Camps?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x75811

Alone in the Universe?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x75397

Phantom Cloud over Germany (Chemtrail related?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x73559

Chemtrails Fact or Fiction? Media is starting to report:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x66146

Chemtrails in the Sky
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x64166

My question: Why are these discussions in the 9/11 folder?

Anyone have a serious answer?



(P.S. I think all of these discussions belong at DU, but not in the 9/11 folder. By including them with serious 9/11 research, a statement (perhaps inadvertently) is being made about the 9/11 folder.)

[progressoid]

114. Birds of a feather flock together.

[titoresque]

120. perhaps you should do a little less

condemning and a lot more research.

Start here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

Then here:
http://www.911podcasts.com/view.php?cat=0&med=0&ord=Name&strt=0&vid=92&epi=270&typ=0&form=1

[RedSock]

123. yep

that's about what i expected.

[Blackthorn]

129. The serious answer is...

...because 9/11 is treated as big a conspiracy here as all those threads you mentioned. Clearly, those threads you linked have no other home here on DU, so they are lumped in with the closest thing to a conspiracy forum. Though the "Bush is an Alien" thread has clearly been moved based on its title, rather than content. A sign that the mods treat all these topics the same way.

Simply put, most people here are not ready to deal with the truth about 9/11 and I suspect there was a catalysing event sometime in the past that led to the creation of the 9/11 forum. I'm just intuiting from the general opinion held here, but it certainly seems to me that a majority of DU is uncormfortable with going any further than LIHOP.

I'd fully support you but as I don't donate, I can only give moral support.

And in closing, I find it disgusting that people here are guilt tripping other members into donating. If you don't want to donate, there should be no coercion, from anyone. I mean, would you prefer DU to be subscription based? So you have to pay if you wanna see anything past the home page? We're not half taking a running dive into elitist are we?

[titoresque]

131. great post!

:)

[spacelady]

116. I do not think this is a donation issue. You say you love DU and

visit it many times a day. You are getting benefit from DU & if you help it financially, you can also help it become a better site. You have every right to make suggestions at any time, to my understanding.

[RedSock]

122. that is a fair point

and i agree to a degree.

i think of not donating (at this time) as writing a letter of complaint to a company i am dissatisfied with. they may not know there is a problem unless someone brings it to their attention.

[astral]

135. Redsock, I see your point.

Why can't there be a 911 thread that is just for 911 stuff? There is a topic on astrology; do they stick people who say they've had alien implants in there? A topic is a topic, and it is degrading for someone to say, just because they have the "power" to do so, that:

"I think that topic is bullshit. Therefore, I am going to put EVERYTHING ELSE in the univers that I PERSONALLY THINK IS BULLSHIT right in there under that topic. Then NOBODY can have a coherent discussion on DU on THAT topic, or ANY OTHER TOPIC that I PERSONALLY think is BULLSHIT."

Hey, I'd be pissed as hell, too! And I would consider standing by you on that and not donating with you, unfortunately I already donated in February this year, since I donated in February of last year, and you know what once a year is enough as I donate to other places I support too and it gets expensive.

A good percentage of the people of America think 911 was an inside job. Not just Democrats or Republicans or tinfoil hat liberals (tongue in cheek! Please!). I also think it is a very appropriate subject for the DU. ANYBODY who doesn't think so can stay out of the topic, just as I would stay out of the 'automotive enthusiasts group' or the 'fantasy literature group' as I have no interest whatsovever in those topics.

That's too bad a topic like "foreign affairs" would have been deleted and I would like to know why.

To the more rabid posters among you in this thread (I mean one in particular who I will not bother to name, everyone knows who it is) am I 'dissing' the DU forum by expressing my opinion? Does it make any difference to you whether I donate or not that I have an opinion that conflicts with yours and I am expressing it right here?


BY THE WAY, I believe this thread was STARTED by REDSOCK and that everything that was posted under or after INSIDE THIS THREAD is related to the topic at hand, regardless of who anybody thinks anybody else was talking to.

This topic has got me in a bad mood. I do not know all the procedures or pecking order around here, but I did feel the forum was worth donating to even though I hardly ever visited it during the past 12 months. The bigger the forum the more likely there will be diversely conflicting opinions, but censorship should be limited to appropriately placed censorship.

Just my opinion.

[giordanomosso]

119. You can't search the articles if you do not donate

I haven't seen that anywhere else.

[johnnie]

125. I think someone there mentioned another forum for other stuff

I seem to recall that someone proposed another forum for things that weren't to do with 9/11.
On a personal note I think that donating is an important thing to do. I understand what you are saying, but I'm sure that if people here got together and tried to get an alternate forum for other conspiracy theories or what have you, the admins would oblige.

[Bonobo]

139. Same story. Sent polite email to Skinner. No reply at all.

I asked why 9/11 discussions were relegated to the dungeons when celebs like Sheen can talk about them and make news (or something like that).

I received no reply. But I chose to donate anyway. Oh well.

I also object to the fact that Skinner has gotten rid of the Ask the Admins forum. It seems a part of the "shut up and enjoy the site or else" policy.

[Jazz2006]

140. I see it differently, RedSock

I came here initially on the recommendation of a friend who knows that I have long been interested in and involved in researching 9/11 issues.

I found the DU setup a bit unwieldy at first, getting used to the format, the forums, and the whole system of trying to figure out which posts were responsive to which posts, etc., not being used to the system of nesting threads and such. It was pretty confusing at first, frankly, and I still have to back up sometimes to figure out what on earth someone is responding to in order for it to make any sense.

And I still haven't figured out all of the sub forums and topics and groups and such.

But from the start, I was delighted that I could find 9/11 discussions in a single forum, and I saw that as a good thing since it meant that people who wanted to discuss specific issues raised in that context were not being constantly bombarded by other people just wandering by with no actual interest in the subject matter, but, hey, some thread header on a generic thread led them there.

Similarly, I was delighted to find the LBN threads all in one place, and to find the GD threads all in one place, and to find the Lounge threads all in one place.

I was also, and remain, thrilled that I don't have to wade through a thousand Israel/Palestine threads to find what I'm looking for, and delighted that those who want to debate the I/P issues can do so without being slagged and interrupted by a whole lot of people who would otherwise have wandered into their threads had the forums been set up differently and left it a free for all, as many other boards do.

Here, you have to go looking for the topics that interest you.

At first, that seemed strange to me, as I was used to a very different setup, but I've grown to not only like this setup but to understand how it is quite superior to other talkboards.

Anyway, this is turning into a novel so I'll stop now.

Just saying - as another 9/11 forum poster looking at this from a different perspective than you do -that I think your premise (that people should refuse to donate to the site that hosts the very forum that you're advocating and that hosts the very forum in which you've started this thread) unless and until it conforms to your personal thoughts on how it should be run... well, that just strikes me as silly.

DU is truly one of the best forums in which you can express yourself, whether you give them a dime or not, as is amply demonstrated by the fact that your thread criticizing it is here.

[Harper_is_Bush]

141. People who wish to keep repeating that the fall looked like a controlled

demolition are idiots.

But they are vocal idiots. Maybe that's why the 9/11 area was created.

[libertypirate]

145. Bait....

Fresh fish, looking for some fresh fish...

[Moderator]

146. Locking

Comments about DU policy should be directed to the site administrators at [e-mail]