Daily Kos Diary: Did Gonzales Kill Fitz's Rove Indictments?

[Stevendsmith]

Last Friday, Judge Reggie Walton, the presiding judge in the Libby trial, deliberated over a case titled "SEALED v. SEALED." There is growing speculation that sealed v. sealed is Fitzgerald v. Gonzales' Deputy, Paul McNulty (Fitzgerald's direct superior).

The Wayne Madsen Report and the Chris Matthews Show have both floated the theory that Fitzgerald had secured indictments against Rove, but Gonzales --via McNulty-- came in at the last second and used his power as Fitzgerald's superior to kill the indictments.

IF, this theory is true, Fitzgerald would have likely challenged McNulty's decision in court, pointing to an earlier administrative directive from then acting Attorney General James Comey that gave Fitzerald the "authority of the Attorney General." Comey is long gone, however, and was replaced by McNulty. The question then becomes what, if any, value does Comey's administrative directive have today.

One unfortunate realty of this scenario is that if the judge sides with McNulty, we will never know what really happened, because it will remained sealed. Which, is one explanation about why Rove is acting so smug these days and why the White House has not pulled back his public schedule.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/21/184052/881

[mmonk]

1. Criminalization of the courts?

[babylonsister]

Wow. If it went down like that, one could ask why Fitz is

necessary if they can just overturn any decision he or the GJ makes. Outrage, anyone?

[burythehatchet]

5. This really shouldn't be a surprise

What's surprising is that so many people believed that the criminal justice system would be allowed to work unfettered and secure indictments against the Bush crime family.

[jazzjunkysue]

31. Then, they wouldn't have Libby now either. He's supplying all the dirt.

[rodeodance]

90. Is it possible that the WH put forth a 'states secret' tactic? We do not

know at this point.

[Semblance]

2. This demonstrates the problem with Leopold's story

It will be the source of countless and endless conspiracy theories.

[keopeli]

4. I disagree. If this is ture, TruthOut will have had it right...

...from the start and those of us who chose to believe will be vidicated yet again.

Conspiracy theories exist no matter the situation.

If this account is true, TruthOut may go down because people chose to believe the lie once again. But, in the end, we will be vindicated.

If this account is true, it will be "unsealed" someday. And the person who "unseals" the truth, even when threatened with jail time, will be marginalized just as TruthOut has been.

The fact is that we know more today BECAUSE TruthOut made their bold move, even if their account has inaccuracies. Something happened on May 13, 2006 and the only journalist in the world with the cajones to say something was TruthOut.

Welcome to DU!

[H2O Man]

20. It's not true.

There is zero chance of it being true.

[radio4progressives]

46. H2OMan, I'm really surprised with your statement.

I thought you had a whole more insight and a better grip than most than most on this board about how things work....
your comment is in absolute terms, and i really am surprised to see you do that.

[demobabe]

86. He does have a better understanding, that's why he's definite

This Kos diary is Wayne Madsen BS. It is completely debunked, and H2OMan knows this is not possible.

[H2O Man]

89. One fact alone

should do: Paul McNulty was the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia who indicted Larry Franklin, Steve Rosen, and Keith Weissman for the neocon/AIPAC spy scandal. That series of extremely serious crimes, which were closely connected to the Plame scandal, are indeed at risk of having the charges derailed.

McNulty is friends with Mr. Fitzgerald. There was an overlap in their cases. A significant part of that overlap is Judith Miller's activities to promote the war in Iraq, and to prepare Iraq as a base for operations within Iran.

Mr. McNulty is not Mr. Fitzgerald's supervisor. A fellow named David Margolis replaced Jim Comey in that role. Mr. Fitzgerald's authority in the case was rather bluntly detailed by Judge Reggie Walton in a recent hearing on just that topic.

If I sounded blunt, I hope that it did not send any message other than the theory put forth in the article described in the OP is not true. Things are good for our side right now. I know that people are getting impatient, and the recent situation has made rational people wonder, "What the heck is going on?" I urge everyone to look closely, and decide for themselves. To the extent that people have to rely on sources for information, look for those who know the difference between McNulty and Margolis. And, for what it is worth, I would be saying so. The AIPAC spy trial is a case in point: I have detailed the problems involved there in several threads. But the Plame investigation is on track.

[The Wielding Truth]

102. Thanks H2O. Rove has had his hands on things lately . It is

reassuring to think that he will be too busy with his own problems soon.He must be curtailed from running his propaganda side show so we can reclaim justice. Thanks again.

[Maddy McCall]

24. LOL.

Unbelievable. :rofl:

[grasswire]

3. McNulty is a Bush FIXER!!!

Aghhhh!

He was instrumental in the Florida recount.

He coached Ashcroft through the confirmation process.

He was given the "rocket docket" in order to be the FIXER for the crimes of the Bush administration.

McNulty is a goddam FIXER!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

6. can a grand jury ignore all this and still hand down an

indictment without fitzgerald?

[Gregorian]

7. Fitzgerald may have the power of AG, but he can be fired. (?)

As one reads, one asks which posts are actual facts, and which are not. And it just gets more complicated from there. It sounds like the only reason they wouldn't fire him is because of the stink the press would make. Not very likely.

This quickly gets over everyone's head in regular America. What bothers me the most is that the Plame exposure is only one of many illegal things this clan has pulled off. I'm looking for hope that this one thing will come to fruition. And it sounds like with Gonzales, Fitzgerald might be limited.

They would have fired Fizgerald before now, if they were going to at all. Wouldn't they?

[jazzjunkysue]

32. Of course.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. If I'm not mistaken, Gonzales is recused in this case.

If he exerted influence in the case...

:nuke:

[KoKo]

42. Gonzales had to recuse himeself......just like Asscroft did.

Gonzales, having been Bush's personal attorney and his pick for AG would have no credibility in a court.

Now...knowing the power of the "Unitary P-Resident" and the power of his "Unitary Appointees" one could look at this and say it would make sense for Gonzales to "push his luck" figuring what they've seemed to have gotten away with. I wouldn't put it past the Bushes to try to save Rove's Butt.

Still...if we've gone that far to a "Totalitarian State" then I think that higher powers than us here and on Kos would rise up.

But...then...I'm a hopeful person. per my sig line....:-(

[HereSince1628]

9. Color me skeptical...considering it involves Wayne Madsen....

[yourguide]

10. Holy c***!!!! n/t

[rucky]

11. It this is true, someone from Fitz's office needs to leak it. n/t

[madrchsod]

12. madsen and matthews? give me a break

so the federal grand jury got its indictments killed by gonzo? the federal grand jury system is now controlled by the whitehouse? so now they have the power hand pick the federal jury pool?

[yourguide]

14. I trust matthews...

to speculate...madsen maybe not so much.

[rooney]

19. I read yesterday that Gonzalez had recused himself.

If that is true would that mean that he could not do what was described in the above post?

[sandyd921]

13. If this is true

it is just further confirmation that any hope for checks and balances in the system are futile. I am rapidly losing all illusions about our having anything approaching a democracy or representative form of government. Justice? Hah! These felons have taken our country from us. I :cry: for my country. I want it back!

[HereSince1628]

17. IF it's true, and it's got supporting evidence Specter won't be able to

stop a call for an investigation.

[H2O Man]

15. There is zero chance

that this is true.

[mmonk]

21. You hope.

If it is true, then there really is no hope this country can self-govern.

[H2O Man]

22. I know.

Knowing who Paul is -- and he isn't Patrick Fitzgerald's supervisor -- might put this foolishness to rest. Do people know who Paul is, and what his connection to Mr. Fitzgerald is?

[annabanana]

27. (very glad you're here, H2O Man). . . . .n/t

[H2O Man]

33. Paul did the

neocon/AIPAC spy investigation.

[mmonk]

36. Very true.

[papau]

105. Paul's trying to establish an official secrets law in the US where oral

comments ABOUT the existence of a secret is a crime - we will become a little less free, but that is OK because the Brits lost this part of their freedom first.

Besides the US official secrets act will have been passed by the GOP executive and approved by the GOP courts.

The above sounds harsh, and it puts Paul's work if the worst light and is unfair as I understand actual secrets were passed - it was not just a discussion of secrets existing - but I do believe I will pause a few days before I buy the "no way there was interference by the executive in the Fitz investigation" idea.

But then I am just a skeptic.

:-)

[H2O Man]

110. If one believes

the AIPAC officials, their case is entirely about freedom of the press. Of course, neither were reporters. One was fully aware of the laws regarding classified information, having had the status at RAND that allowed him access to CI documents. Both participated in classic "evasive tactics" often used by those engaged in espionage: one example would be moving from one diner to another, three times, during one meeting with a government official who was passing on classified information that has to do with possible military strikes against Iran. But it could be that we should listen to those caught engaging in espionage, and simply overlook the connection between their activity, the war in Iraq and the push on the part of those they delivered those military secrets to, to have military strikes on Iran.

The law that they are being charged under has been on the books for decades, and not a single journalist has been charged under it. More, a reading of the federal decision in the Miller/Cooper case makes clear that virtually all of the judges involved recognized the rights and responsibilities of journalists in our society. While one can view the Bush administration and A.G. Gonzales as posing significant threats to all of those freedoms outlined in the Bill of Rights, those threats are difficult to find in the neocon/AIPAC spy scandal.

[mmonk]

28. Boss?

I have this.
http://billmon.org/archives/002292.html

[H2O Man]

30. I'm not sure what you have.

But I can assure you that Mr. Margolis is the individual who replaced Mr. Comey.

[mmonk]

34. You're speaking of this?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1033398

[H2O Man]

37. That's him.

I will add that he isn't anyone that I think is trustworthy.

McNulty did the neocon/AIPAC spy investigation. There was an overlap, with him and Mr. Fitzgerald. Paul understands the connection between the neocon/AIPAC and the Plame scandals.

Fitzgerald's authority in this situation is pretty secure. If he made an error, then it would be possible for the administration to attempt to undercut him. But things are good right now.

[Garbo 2004]

41. McNulty is Deputy Attorney General. He replaced Comey.

http://www.usdoj.gov/dag/

Comey had put Margolis in charge of supervising Fitz. Margolis did not replace Comey as DAG.

[H2O Man]

92. Not as DAG

but in terms of the Plame scandal. It was a sensative issue at the time, and I should have been more precise.

[Emit]

63. Who is Paul and what is his connection to Fitzgerald, H2O Man?

Can you enlighten me, as your insight is always much appreciated? Thanks much in advance. In the meantime, while I await your insight, I will look into this myself in order to try to understand your points, thus far. Thanks again!

[H2O Man]

93. Mr. McNulty was the

fellow in charge of the investigation into the neocon/AIPAC spy scandal, which resulted in the indictments of Larry Franklin and the two very high ranking AIPAC fellows engaged in espionage. They were getting US military intelligence on Iran, and providing it to an intelligence officer from a foreign country. The case involved a couple "journalists" who advocate the Cheney-Rumsfeld agenda as well.

For a couple years, I've called the Plame, the neocon/AIPAC spy, and the Niger forgeries the "three leaf clover" of scandals. They involve the same core group of criminals, who have been engaged in intelligence operations that do not benefit the American citizen, but sure line the pockets of Halliburton & friends.

[Emit]

104. Thanks, H2O Man, for clarifying. Yes, I assumed that's what you meant

as I knew this info (esp. your apropros "three leaf clover" analogy, as I've been following your writings for some time). I thought perhaps you meant something different or had even more scoop, although, the way you put this, it is plenty in and of itself. Thanks again!

[Hepburn]

51. I agree.

Gonzales recused himself from the case. Having once done that, he cannot make an appearance on behalf of anyone.

[Maddy McCall]

16. More ridiculous speculation...

So a case entitled "sealed vs. sealed" is listed on the docket--one would have to take one hell of a giant leap of faith to assert that this is Fitz vs. Gonzo's proxy re Rove indictment. Talk about crazy speculation. Does this judge not see cases outside of the Fitz investigation?

Let me guess. Marc Ash will now claim that this is exactly what happened, and Leopold's story was right after all. Uh huh. :eyes:

[Gregorian]

23. Indicting his superior isn't something he can even do.

This story has immediately started another fire storm. I can't believe it. And among some very bright people. Me not being one of them. :)

[Maddy McCall]

25. You are much too humble.

:hi:

[Gregorian]

29. I could get arrogant on everyone's ass!

Woo hoo!

It's just not in my genes. I only get confident when I see the finish line. It has it's disadvantages, that's true.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

48. Confession: ""sealed vs. sealed" is actually...

... a case involving my head and my ass. I apologise. It happened shortly after I read some weak reporting on one of teh intarwebs. I felt compelled.

Note to self, don't touch the brown acid, the yellow snow nor the purple reportage.

If anyone has evidence that "sealed vs. sealed" is about something other than my ass, please present it. Any other speculation merely looks like you pulled it out of yours.

[madrchsod]

18. the last sentence is hilarious!

my lawyer told me after i was arrested not to change anything just go about your daily life cause he was going to delay as long as possible and i`m sure that is what rove`s lawyer told him..

they would have fired fitzgerald long ago

[Catrina]

26. I really doubt that Gonzales could do anything to stop Fitz. He had to

recuse himself from the case because of his close association with Karl Rove, as I recall and also he himself is suspect in the case since he waited 12 hours to follow the instructions of the prosecutor to inform the WH staff not to disturb any evidence because of the investigation.

I may be remembering this wrong, but I think that during those 12 hours, Gonzales communicated with Andrew Card.

Andrew Card resigned recently ~
Emails that were missing, were discovered a few weeks ago.
Gonzales must have had to explain to Fitzgerald why he took 12 hours to follow his directions.

If I were to speculate about that indictment at all, I would wonder if it was Fitz V Gonzales.

Wow! I just heard on the news that Gonzales said the 'rights of a free press should not be absolute' naturally 'in the interests of national security'! How long more do we have to wait to get rid of these people?

[Garbo 2004]

43. Gonzales actually testified in the investigation before the first grand

jury.

[demobabe]

83. The only thing Gonzales can do

...is fire Fitzgerald.

[Missy Vixen]

106. demobabe, maybe H20 Man will weigh in on this one

but I remember reading about a month ago that PJF could be removed for "cause", and the only person who could do so is the President of the United States, if I remember correctly.

Julie

[lovuian]

35. Lets give Fitzgerald credit here... he's not a bozo

and he will charge Rove when he is GOOD AND READY...

not before...

[H2O Man]

38. Right.

I think people are getting antsy. And looking for what might be. It's important to be patient. Keep in mind how uncomfortable it is right now for the OVP/WHIG!

[many a good man]

39. Its a "theory" !!!

The author doesn't even attribute it to Madsden or Tweety. Nothing more than wild speculation. He doesn't even assert that its true. This whole thing is just getting curiouser and curiouser....

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. How can we know if Rove is acting smug anymore?

He hasn't been photographed since last Monday and unlike the weeks before last week, he has been laying low for the most part. So has Bush and Cheney for that matter. Seems they've all cut way back on the photo ops lately.

[MADem]

107. He was at a HUGE fundraiser in IL last Friday

You KNOW those dipsticks paid top dollar to have their "pitcher" taken with him. It was a minimum five hundred a plate shindig. The press can't get in without buying a ticket, and they don't pay for crap like that. Plus, he's not YET a big news item, he's just Pudge, the King's Factotum.

And he was the top draw on the card at that event, not a second stringer. He ain't layin' low...

[BlueJac]

44. Everything now is National Security.....

The Bush end game has finally become a reality......King George has won.

[nolabels]

69. What he win, what he win!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why are Bush Polls Bad?
Media/Lee Ellis


(you know they are in trouble when they turn to the comics for logic :-) )

(snip)
Bill Maher was in my city this week signing his books and doing a show afterwards. Our major valley newspaper carried the front page news that hundreds of people stood in line for up to three hours to get a handshake or a photo and that his show at a local large theater was sold out. Bill was quoted as being happy that the Bush polls were low. The paper went on to report, "Maher has a question for the growing number of Americans dissatisfied with the Bush job performance--- where you been? ….It's not that they are having so many problems now, it's that it took so many people five years to catch on."
(snip)
http://www.therant.us/staff/ellis/11212005.htm

[Patsy Stone]

45. Okay, so let me get this straight...

I'm supposed to buy this theory?

ed: stupidity

[Quixote1818]

47. No, if public got wind of this it would go over like a led balloon.

Fitz would leak the story and all hell would break lose.

[Fovea]

49. If Gonzo did this

It would make Nixon's Cox bluder seem like a stroke of genius by comparison.

[linazelle]

50. I knew it...I KNEW Leopold was not wrong...it's the finnagling

behind the scenes that has kept the truth from surfacing.

[Maddy McCall]

52. You have GOT to be kidding.

Unreal.

[linazelle]

56. Not kidding. n/t

[Jersey Devil]

53. This is absolutely ridiculous and total balderdash

Here's what the court docket looks like when there is something sealed on it - a schedule from the DC federal courts, by the way, Judge Walton's court included:

Notice it says: Certain courtroom events and any sealed matters will not appear on this schedule

http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/Daily_Court_Schedule.pdf

They wouldn't list "sealed vs. sealed". That is preposterous.

[Jazz2006]

62. Indeed.

And for those who want to see what the weekly schedule looks like (since there are no Saturday courts and they might not understand what they're looking at in your link, Jersey Devil), here it is: Walton's court included.

http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/Weekly_Court_Schedule.pdf

[Garbo 2004]

54. Some people are actually taking this seriously? Based on what?

Truthout is being castigated for a story for which they at least assert they have sources who are in a position to know about what they claimed (who may be pulling shit & rumors out of their butts for all I know) but someone on Kos says Tweets and Masden simply "floated a theory" and some people accept it as credible and respond as if it were fact?

Exactly how does a prosecutor, once a grand jury has returned an indictment, unring that bell? Pretend that it hasn't happened? Although it's filed with the court, the attorneys are officers of the court, and the court does not report to the DOJ? And it is the court that issues the warrant or summons for the accused to appear. The AG justs tell the court, oh about that indictment, never mind? And the judge just says OK? Just like that?

So simple to just "kill" a grand jury indictment, they didn't do it when Libby was indicted? And the process of his prosecution, for those who have been reading the filings, is revealing stuff that no doubt a number of people in high places can't be too happy about. Libby and Cheney were instrumental in the WMD fraud.

Maybe Madsen did see the AG's motorcade at the courthouse after all on May 12. Gonzo stopped off to kidnap the judge overseeing the grand jury investigation and the judge has now been renditioned to a offshore location. If people are going to believe just anything just because someone "floats a theory," why not?

[ramblin_dave]

55. Hey if JiggyFlunknut says so, it must be true

BTW, who the hell is JiggyFlunknut?

[Garbo 2004]

61. Probably Howie Kurtz researching his story on internet blogs.

OK, I just made that up. I have no sources that told me that. Really. ;)

:D

[Maddy McCall]

67. Ppfftgaaaagh!

:spray:

OK, you got a very vocal guffaw from me on that one. :thumbsup:

:rofl:

[Jazz2006]

57. Absurd. Completely and utterly absurd. "Dungeon" worthy, even.

Sheesh.

[Jersey Devil]

59. Sub-dungeon tinfoil room would be more appropriate

Someone must have dreamed this one.

[Jazz2006]

65. Pharmaceutical-induced dream, even

Totally ridiculous.

[garybeck]

82. i don't think it's absurd

this is exactly the kind of trick Rove would try to play if he was getting indicted. gonzalez is clearly in rove's circle.

i'm not saying i think it's true, but to say it's absurd, I disagree. I actually would expect them to try something like this. that's why gonzales is there anyway - to guard the untouchables.

[patcox2]

97. Several people are so certain of this, can you tell me why?

I have been reading TPM for years, one thing hs is not is a rumor-monger, he does not go out on a limb.

[Canuckistanian]

58. What's telling to me me in this whole affair

Is that the truthout thing is getting almost NO play from the RW media.

This is the exact kind of thing they usually jump on. No Drudge, no Hannity, No Rush. This would present an obvious opportunity to smear, slander and sneer at the "libruls", the blogs and pundits who tried and failed to bring down the most powerful political operative in the country.

It's almost like they've been told to hold off, to reserve judgment. And it must be killing them.

[Jersey Devil]

60. Yeah, sure, discrediting Truthout brings down the entire investigation

Outside of DU, who the hell ever heard of Truthout?

[Canuckistanian]

64. Who the hell was Ward Churchill?

The RWers made a cottage industry slamming him about an obscure article. Yet HE was a nobody, a vitual unknown to the liberal/progressive community at large.

Truthout has been making some big gains lately, enough to be picked up by the major media players.

They're definitely a target. And if RWer wants you to know about their next target, it doesn't matter if you've never heard about them before.

[Maddy McCall]

68. Bullshit!

Every historian knows who Ward is. Anyone who's ever been involved in the AIM knows who he is. Most progressives know who he is.

Just because you were ignorant until his controversial remarks--well, don't project that onto others.

Hell, he's TRULY a best-selling author or multiple books. I'd be astonished more if most progressives and liberals DIDN'T know who Ward is.

[Canuckistanian]

74. I don't want to get into an argument about relative fame

But I listen intensely to RW radio shows and Churchill was presented as a major liberal media star (on par with, say, Michael Moore) as he was being eviscerated.

And he may be well known in academic and well-read circles, but you couldn't exactly call him a household name.

That's my only point, the way he was treated by the RWers.

[Jersey Devil]

70. So this is a conspiracy to make Truthout famous so it can be mocked

even though at the outset no one even knew it existed outside of a few bloggers and the folks at DU?

[Canuckistanian]

75. In a word, yes.

Not like thay haven't done it before. They can take any nutcase organization or individual, show their transgression as they see it and use association to blame all liberals.

A well known and time-honored tactic for them.

[Jazz2006]

76. Two words, Canuckistanian.

Occam's Razor.

Sheesh.

(Okay, three words)

[Canuckistanian]

77. Meaning what, exactly?

I know what Occam's Razor is. Are you saying that I'm unnecessarily complicating things here?

[Maddy McCall]

79. I'll see your Occam's Razor, and I up you a Hanlon's Razor.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

:D

[symbolman]

94. Can't you see what's happening?

TO and Leopold are TRICKING Rove :) They KNEW that Rove and Luskin were going to use them as a conduit for lies, so they went ahead and spread the SPIN that Karl gave them, all the while acting like it was true, so that Rove would fall into the trap.. meanwhile they are getting the fame needed to take him down, by pulling into a tight combat group, letting Google make them a non news provider, as well as Yahoo, and letting only sites like DRUDGE to bring them the hits needed to give them that Bump In Alexsis to be used later to show that they had the Percentages that real news sites had, the traffic to show they were well received..

For the Liberals to fall for it, or not possibly scream that it was a mess, they had to get them to play along, by adding 24 hours, then 24 business hours (of course they'd also reported that Rove/Luskin had been delivered of a Target Letter on or before April 26th, which adds even more confusion, and fuzzy math), when the progressives started screaming about how they were damaging the left wing online, they quickly offered up a minor apology, that indeed it APPEARED that Rove had NOT been Indicted as reported, and the noose closed tighter around Rove's neck..

Of course to keep Rove from realizing that they were onto him they had to start adding and subtracting witnesses or sources, while Rove rubbed his hands together with glee, thinking, "Once I've made this medium sized blog famous, THEN I will knock them down.. they will fall in line with all the other News Sources I leaked my spin to.. wait, did I forget to leak that to anyone else? Oops.. well, no matter.."

Then they added the "Rove/Libby Hate Cheney" so when Rove and Luskin are lulled into complacency they will strike..

But Rove will be fooled even more by them reporting that he's been Indicted for a Long time, at which point Leopold will blame them and walk, and TO will be left holding the bag of shit he dumped on them, and everyone else.

One thing Rove could count on was that the Progressives actually DO love Conspiracy theories for the most part, and as long as they do, he will CRUSH them, sometimes without saying a single word.

[Blackthorn]

66. Bingo!

The silence is truly deafening.

[rodeodance]

109. Yes, it is an oddity that these types have not jumped on the bandwagon.

[dysfunctional press]

71. secret pardon.

i've been saying it for almost a week-
bush has already pardoned kkkarl, but it won't be announced until january 20, 2009...if at all.

[Garbo 2004]

78. And if it were that just simple why has Karl dragged his ass to the

courthouse 5 times to testify over the last two years? Why spend all that time and energy and the big bucks on lawyer fees with a cloud hanging over him for all that time? When just presto, all his problems could have gone away away long ago and no one need ever know, according to your theory.

[dysfunctional press]

80. he never thought it would actually go that far.

he didn't realize until too late that fitzgerald is the real deal.

the pardon is a last resort.

ask cappy...oh wait- he's dead.

[Garbo 2004]

84. Ah, like Luskin was tapdancing all over the place in October 2005

just to avoid/forstall Rover's indictment because they hadn't a clue that an indictment was quite possibly in Rover's future, especially after Cooper's testimony in July. They didn't realize when Libby was indicted Fitz was serious? Only now? Again?

Weinberger's pardon was quite public as I recall. That's why a pardon is a "last resort." It's public record.

But since you assert a secret pardon can be issued and enforced, a pardon that would not be a matter of public record as all other pardons, then why would it be a "last resort?" No one would know because there would be no public record, which presumably is the point of a secret pardon, yes?

[dysfunctional press]

85. i'm just throwing out guesses-

the point is- i wouldn't put anything past this crew, including inventing something like a 'secret pardon' during wartime...they've already claimed every other power they could think of- and i wouldn't put something like this- concept and/or execution of same, past them.

[Clarkie1]

72. Just stop. Please stop. This DOES NOT MATTER! FOCUS ON 06'!

[garybeck]

81. yes it ABSOLUTELY DOES MATTER.

[Clarkie1]

73. This crap is worse than used toilet paper! Utter garbage!

[ottomattic]

87. Wait a minute

"Last Friday, Judge Reggie Walton, the presiding judge in
the Libby trial, deliberated over a case titled "SEALED
v. SEALED." There is growing speculation that sealed v.
sealed is Fitzgerald v. Gonzales' Deputy, Paul McNulty
(Fitzgerald's direct superior)."


Wait a minute, The TO story said Fitzgerald was at the offices
of Rove's lawyers for 15 hours friday. 

[DoYouEverWonder]

91. Nulty is not Fitzgerald's supervisor in this case

Fitzgerald was given the same power has Attorney General. The only person who has 'power' over Fitzgerald is Bush.

[earth mom]

88. I'm with those who think this may be true.

After 5+ years of putting up with * Co crap, one thing I know for sure is that the * cabal

ALWAYS and I mean-ALWAYS

has something sneaky up their sleeves.

[dogday]

95. Sealed Indictments can be used to gain info

read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1250919&mesg_id=1251852

[theboss]

96. This is ridiculous

Gonzales is recused from this issue.

[lonestarnot]

98. Poopie Gonzales recused from all info re this case.

[arwalden]

99. Let's Ask Leopold or Pitt And Find Out For CERTAIN!

[patcox2]

100. Yes, I have heard that Pitt is omniscient!

He will know, he will lead us to the promised land, we just have to believe!

[onenote]

101. the original TO story was dubious, but this story is just stupid

Anyone buying the story that Judge Walton "deliberated over a case titled "SEALED v. SEALED", that his case was really Fitzgerald v. McNulty, and that it pertains to action by McNulty/Gonzalez to kill indictments secured by Fitzgerald should explain the following:

1. What proof is there that there was a case entitled SEALED v. SEALED on Walton's schedule last Friday? Can you produce a shred of evidence supporting that claim?

2. Assuming you can point to evidence of such a case (and I doubt it), what evidence do you have that the case had anything to do with Fitz, McNulty, Gonzalez, or the Plame investigation?

3. How exactly does a Dep.AG, or for that matter, the AG himself, "kill" an indictment after its been returned by a GJ? The process for quashing an indictment is to go to court.

A little speculation never killed anyone, but anyone buying this latest bit of horseshit is gullible beyond words.

[Snivi Yllom]

103. worthless

The KARLSPIRACY has struck again.

Amazing. Not a shred of proof is required that any of this happened, yet people still believe it as recorded history.

[understandinglife]

108. Allow me to remind you of a little stunt abu Gonzales played with Card.

What did White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card learn from Alberto Gonzales and when did he learn it ... and what did he do with that knowledge? This "whole new can of worms" (to quote CBS News' Bob Schieffer, on Sunday's Face the Nation) is to me the breaking news question of the day.

Why? Because on the show, Alberto Gonzales admitted that he called Andrew Card right after he was notified that the Justice Department had opened its investigation of the Plame leak ... even though he formally notified The White House staff 12 hours later.

<clip>

Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-g-brant/the-gonzalescard-leak-w_b_4619.html

If you think Mr. Fitzgerald has forgotten any of that; if you think the miraculous emergence of all those emails; if you ...

Well, let's just say that torture boy is likely to be just as much a "target" for Mr. Fitzgerald and the GJ as anyone inside the Beltway. It's called obstruction of justice and conspiracy to do just that. I doubt that torture boy has any sway whatever over Mr. Fitzgerald and certainly none over the GJ.


It Is Tribunal Time In The United States of America