I am puzzled about this theft of veterans' data. Why would anyone need

[yellowcanine]

to have all that data to take home with them and why would it be on a disk that could be taken out of the office in the first place? It seems basic that one would keep that data on secured sites with safeguards to prevent it from being copied unto a disk. If someone really needs to access it from home they could access it with proper authorization (although if I were in charge of computer security I would probably not allow that either). Let them stay at their desk until their work is done and then go home. Maybe I am missing something here but how certain are we that this employee didn't do this deliberately?

[wakeme2008]

1. He was stealing it for something

:shrug:

You do not take home ppl SSN and birthdays for nothing.

[lindisfarne]

14. Or else the VA has such horrid computer security that they figured

a hacker will get into the system (or has) and they needed a cover. You never know, given the stream of BushCo lies.

[mtnester]

18. Yeah, setting it right out in the open for that "small burglary" that just

HAPPENED at his/her place immediately.

[htuttle]

2. In the Bush Administration's executive branch....

...Supervisors don't actually supervise their subordinates' *work* anymore. They simply supervise their subordinates' *political loyalty*. If that is solid, everything else is just fine...

"Heck of a job, Mr. VA Data Analysis Guy!"

[carolinalady]

3. Me too. I am thinking it was deliberate. Why would an ordinary

thief (apparently there has been a raft of thefts in the area) pick up a computer disk and take it? Why did the government wait 3 weeks to tell anybody? What kind of project requires the info of vets since the 1970's? i just saw something on TV yesterday about the new blackmarket for personal information. The whole thing smells to high heaven.

[bobbieinok]

30. glad to see others think this may be a cover story for something else

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Speaking as someone responsible for my employer's data security...

There is no way this could be an accident; I expect the CD was created specifically to be reported stolen.

[htuttle]

5. Do we know that it was actually 'a CD'?

They've sort of been trying to give the impression that this guy took the data home, then it was stolen right away, but when I read the published accounts more carefully, it seems like he might have been building up this data set for some time.

Have they said whether this was just a fluke that his computer happened to be stolen the one night he had this data on it? I'd be willing to bet that their bad data security practices are more widespread than this once incident.

In other words, how much more private data is out there on government employees' home computers?

[yellowcanine]

6. And making the CD should have required authorization from a supervisor,

it would seem to me. In fact, it is amazing to me that the employee could even make the CD in the first place. Data like that should be only accessible on a secure computer that doesn't allow making transportable records.

[jojo54]

7. I agree with everyone here....it was planned.

Now, the :tinfoilhat: comes out........WHO would want data that, in this day and age of hacking, is really useless?????

Opinions???

[caligirl]

10. I had one thought about blackmailing of vets opposed to the

war, but that wouldn't explain the huge number. So must be some other reason.

[shain from kane]

12. My idea on the original project: Information could be obtained

about the assets owned by the veterans, or the statistical range of assets, so it could be determined whether they still needed their benefits, or should pay a larger share for them. In other words, cut their benefits if they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank, or increase the cost of their health care.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. An intruiging idea, but...

If this were an operation by the government, they already have the data; where is the need to make a very public theft of it? And if the media is covering it, it can't have the sanction of the Junta.

I'm inclined to think this is not a government plan.

[shain from kane]

24. Actually, I was speculating about what his project was! Sorry that

I did not make it clear enough.

Why would he need the data on so many names in one self-contained disk? Do the employees casually flip the disk around containing 25 million people's information? What is the common denominator that all information on this many people would be on one disk? It would seem that the information would be subdivided and organized instead of a large haystack of names, addresses, and social security numbers over a huge series of disks. Each particular record for any one individual would be meaningless, like reading the telephone book.

So I can only conclude that he wanted a large universe of data to mine, so the he could statistically sample that information, much like the telephone records. And what would be the purpose of the statistical sample of information which could be used for access to financial records, except for access to financial records? Was there enough information for access to medical records, or treatments through VA hospitals? In my conclusion, I believe that it would be financial in nature.

[crikkett]

21. It could have been as simple as normalizing data

because the VA uses Social Security Numbers as account numbers.

[Warpy]

8. Names, birth dates, social security numbers

are a goldmine to people who do identity theft.

With those items, they can secure every bit of paper needed to prove they are who they aren't. With that, they get credit. With credit, they get stuff. With stuff they can fence, they get money and drugs.

That's what this theft was all about. That information is worth a lot of money to the thief.

I think they'll catch the thief. It appears he knew exactly what he was looking for and didn't take anything else. That means it was an inside job, a friend, relative, or employee.

[question everything]

13. Especially if many are seniors who are an easy target

for identity theft - they may not be computer savvy, may not be as alert to unusual activities..

[Recursion]

28. On the other hand...

...I would *love* to see the look on some identity thief's face if he tried to get credit with my info...

[Monk06]

41. Swift Boat Kerry outings. Slander anti war vets. Deny health insurance.

[caligirl]

9. I just put a fraud alert on our credit files because of this, between

at&t and this, our privacy got so screwed by the Bush administration. Now I'm going to switch our DSL, TV and phone to Comcast.

[crikkett]

20. Guess what sweety, AT &T and comcast are the same company.

One owns the other or something like that.

Sorry for the bad news.

[caligirl]

27. No they aren't, I just called and spoke to an employee, they are

competitors. But SBC is the new owner of at&t. They kept the at&t name. Don't scare people like that. :pals:

My letter to AT&T;


Dear AT&T,

Due to the loss of privacy you caused my family and I by allowing the Bush administration to have access to our phone calls and emails we have chosen to take our business elsewhere. The good name of the United States, our Constitution, Bill of Rights and just the values upon which this country was founded have been trampled upon and dirtied by AT&T and the Bush administration who together entruded upon and violated the privacy of average American citizens engaged in normal everyday practices of business and family. Words are insufficient to address the egregious conduct of AT&T in cooperating with the NSA without warrants and without probable cause as the 4th amendment requires.

Therefore effective June 3rd our business with you for our land line, dsl and tv will be severed permanently. When possible we intend to also cancel our cingular cell phone business for the same reasons. We will not support any business which violates our most sacred of rights hard earned by the loss of life of those who came before us. May you experience the legal wrath of the angry public in a court of law for violating the privacy of millions like my family and I.

Consider yourself notified of the strongest disapproval of your actions in the NSA matter.

xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx

[crikkett]

33. Is that so? Then 100 search citations are wrong

1. AT&T buys Cox, Comcast out of Excite@Home | CNET News.com

"AT&T buys Cox, Comcast out of Excite@Home | Ma Bell agrees to trade approximately $2.9 billion in its stock for the ownership stakes the competing cable ..."
news.com.com/ATT+buys+Cox,+Comcast+out+of+ExciteHome/2100-1033_3-250927.html

2. Comcast, AT&T cable deal to create Net giant | CNET News.com

"Roberts pinpointed several reasons why Comcast was so intent on the buy, painting a picture of a company evolving well beyond its cable roots. AT&T has ..."
news.com.com/Comcast,+AT&T+cable+deal+to+create+Net+giant/2100-1033_3-277261.html

3. Comcast to buy AT&T Broadband

"Comcast to buy AT&T Broadband By David Lieberman, USA TODAY NEW YORK — It's over. Comcast won. After a six-month fight, AT&T directors voted unanimously ..."
www.usatoday.com/tech/techinvestor/2001/12/20/att-comcast.htm

4. USATODAY.com - Comcast CEO talks about Dad, Disney and Bill Gates

"Q: Does the new AT&T scare you? A: It's daunting that any company would have ... Q: In 2004, you made a bid to buy Disney — which really shot Comcast into ..."
www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2006-04-26-ceo-forum-usat_x.htm

5. Comcast largest cable firm after AT&T buy | The Register

"Comcast largest cable firm after AT&T buy. Big Broadband. By ComputerWire. Published Tuesday 19th November 2002 08:25 GMT ..."
www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11/19/comcast_largest_cable_firm_after/

6. MS-friendly Comcast buys AT&T Cable | The Register

"Comcast will buy AT&T cable for $47 billion in stock and $25 billion in liabilities, creating a cable behemoth twice the size of AOL Time Warner, ..."
www.theregister.co.uk/2001/12/20/msfriendly_comcast_buys_at_t/

7. Comcast Seeks AT&T Broadband - CBS News

"The AT&T Broadband business Comcast is trying to buy includes MediaOne cable ... Comcast said it was willing to buy the AT&T cable business with 1.0525 ..."
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/08/national/main300341.shtml

8. Andy Kessler: WSJ: Comcast's Offer is a Bad Deal for AT&T

"In 2000, Comcast recorded a $1 billion gain on the value of Excite@Home shares that AT&T agreed to buy from Comcast at a minimum price of $48 way back in ..."
www.andykessler.com/andy_kessler/2001/07/wsj_comcasts_of.html

9. Cable World: Comcast adds financing for AT&T buy - Mergers

"Full text of the article, 'Comcast adds financing for AT&T buy - Mergers' from Cable World, a publication in the field of Computers & Technology, ..."
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DIZ/is_10_14/ai_84147093

10. Electronics Times: AT&T buy spoils Comcast merger

"Full text of the article, 'AT&T buy spoils Comcast merger' from Electronics Times, a publication in the field of Computers & Technology, is provided free of ..."
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WVI/is_1999_May_4/ai_54584157

<snip>

99. TiVo Community Forums Archives - Comcast Wins FCC OK to Buy AT&T ...

"Comcast Wins FCC OK to Buy AT&T Broadband ... Comcast to AT&T and "sorta back" again in northern DeKalb County, GA...go figure... :confused: ..."
archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/topic/84956-1.html

100. AMO.NET America's Multimedia Online (Comcast to marry AT&T Broadband)

"Remember, this is AT&T and now Comcast combined. AT&T Comcast will enter the local telephone markets, and you'll be able to buy broadband internet access, ..."
amo.net/NT/12-21-01Comcast.html

[caligirl]

34. thanks, so who to go to for service, hmm. Thanks for the info.

[steely]

35. I believe the Cable and telecommunications groups are separate

businesses. Most of the citations listed above were for Cable organizations.
That said, I no longer remember what happened to AT&T's cable arm, nor do I know if AT&T/SBC traded info with the cable Co's. I pretty much think they were in tremendous competition with each other, and that is why AT&T started to go into cable, so they could have a piece of the VOIP (cable phone) industry that the Cable companies were growing once it went digital (and they could carry more info like voice).

[caligirl]

37. the excite deal was a failure.

[caligirl]

36. I spoke with a supervisor at comcast and another customer rep

and my husband. I related some of the info and was told that after they purchased att broadband, about 6 months, they severed all ties. The board of directors are different, not the same. That no money is exchanged between the companies. So yes they did purchase a spin off of the att parent company a few years ago, but they are a totally separate company and have been for a number of years. ATT is a partner to sbc( my current provider) and they are not competitors they are partners. I am satisfied that in this time of mergers and ma bell being put back together, comcast is its own company and not under control of att, that any acquisitions of att companies are totally absorbed into the comcast system and have been completely separate from att for sometime. Which is completely different for the partner relationship of sbc att.

[steely]

39. I agree - one is cable, the other is phone.

[crikkett]

42. Well that's at least reassuring.

I was under the impression that they were difft brands but the same conglomerate, like Kraft Macaroni & Cheese <> Marlboro cigarettes <> Sleepytime Tea -- but are all owned by Altrea, a.k.a. Philip Morris.

[shain from kane]

11. I assume that his computer was loaded with his own security

functions, which are difficult, if not impossible to remove. Is there a market for this kind of hardware? Isn't it much easier to remove the security functions when you have access to the computer? So, why steal the hardware?

The disk itself was probably not accessed to determine its contents. Would a thief attempt to take the time to determine the contents of each disk, or would he scoop up all of the disks? Why would the thief steal another person's disks without knowing the contents? I have thousands of disks, and if anyone attempted to view them, it would be a huge waste of time and effort, sorting through data that really has only relevance to one person.

I know that there is computer theft, but I can imagine that most of the time the hardware is stolen, rather than the disks.

If the theft occurred, why would the employee even admit that he had the information, at all? It would be security's job to determine how the breach occurred, and security did not seem to be cognizant that he had deliberately taken the information outside the buliding.

It was planned. But I am troubled by why the employee admitted that he had the information so readily?

[yellowcanine]

15. I am thinking someone at work knew he had the data. Maybe he had to

sign for the disk. It could be that he was not the actual culprit, that the disk was stolen from someone close to him that knew what kind of data he had access to. That still doesn't explain why there was such carelessness all around.

[hunter]

17. I'm a little worried they'll use this to cut off homeless vets.

Oh, I'm sorry. Our records show that a veteran by that name is working as a fry cook in Phoenix. Do you have any documentation, sir? If you don't, well then, we just can't help you.

[Golden Raisin]

19. Alarm bells should be going off.

I work for a very large, powerful, international corporation and have daily contact/interaction with multiple Federal Government agencies. I find it inconceivable that our government (in this case the VA) does not have a system whereby certified employees can access their office work from their home computer without having to "take home a laptop". IF our government is so technically inept/unsophisticated, and/or their technology security/compliance is that piss-poor, we are in deeper trouble than I ever imagined. This story reads very false and alarm bells should be going off.

I'm not holding my breath for the Democrats to wake up and make this a viable campaign issue against the Republican administration.

And not for nothing --- is this the way BushCo is going to "win" the "War on Terror" they're always cramming down our throats? Great computer/information security guys!

[AndyTiedye]

22. Employers Might Like to Know Which Vets Are Being Treated for PTSD

so they can avoid hiring them. :grr:

[dipsydoodle]

23. Depends how big the database was

The clues as to what it's used for will come from vets within similar ages groups being contacted on the same subject.

[Bandit]

25. It will make it very difficult for Veterans to get their health care

If all their records are "conveniently" lost. Just remember it isn't Bush*'s fault that veteran's records are treated so shabbily. Nothing is Bush*'s fault. It must be all those very smart people he has surrounded himself with or else probably Clinton's fault but certainly not this Administration's fault.

[yellowcanine]

26. The records aren't lost. It is just that now someone has unauthorized

access to them and can use them to make life miserable for a whole lot of veterans by applying for credit cards in their name and buying a bunch of shit with the cards.

[Horse with no Name]

29. If I were to have to give my best educated tinfoil answer

I would imagine it would be so that the information on these veterans exposure to toxins in Vietnam could be obliterated.
My Uncle served two tours in Vietnam.
He was exposed to Agent Orange.
He started having heart problems which eventually led to needing heart surgery--where he died on the table at the age of 49.
When his wife tried to get military survivor benefits, she was told they had no record he served in Vietnam.

[bobbieinok]

31. ?? no record of 2 tours??

didn't he and she have records of his service......I thought all vets had paperwork that showed their service

[Horse with no Name]

32. He did

They were counting on her not having them.:)

[steely]

38. I am puzzled too, and outraged.

Questions I have are:
How many vets are affected? (since I am one).
Reports vary as to numbers between 26 and 29 million.
Data varies from just name and ssn, to DOB, spouse info, and disabilities.
Set includes ALL vets, or just those from 1975 (whatever that means - did you have to join or be discharged by that date to be included).

We're being fed a line of crap.
I went to the VA web site and it just tells you whom to report to if you think your accounts have been tampered with.
So am I supposed to start a FRAUD alert now?!!?

Should I really expect to be notified, or did I have to read it in the paper?

What if someone calls up the VA, says they're me, and requests aid in the form of MY benefits?

This is fucked people. That analysts should be making french fries right now - if I got caught taking home ANY proprietary data home from work (let alone the personal data for 29 million folks), I'd lose my job.

[caligirl]

40. IWe went ahead and did the fraud alert, it was easy. I am now

thinking we need to go through hubbys' paperwork and make copies for safe keeping. He went to the academy, wonder if they would try to erase that? We have a photo with President Carter on the stage grad. day.