Can we all be that clueless? Dems are keeping mum about the filibuster

[LynneSin]

Think about it.

Everytime a controversial judicial nominee comes up for vote, wind of the filibuster sweeps through the senate and soon after word of the 'Nuclear Option' gets played throughout all MSM.

Democrats know this too well and they also know this. If there is no talk of filibuster then the repukes have no way to do a media onslaught about doing that Nuclear Option that would take away the minorities right to filibuster. If right-wingers go to the press about Nuclear Option they look stupid because every key democrat has come out and said "we're not even sure we want to filibuster"

Reid is an extremely smart tactician. Take a look at 2005 congressional session - republicans should have been able to pass through anything and everything they wanted because they actually GAINED in the 2004 election. But instead Reid managed to out maneuver the republicans and make an ass out of Frist & Bush.

Reid would never EVER give away his game plan about the filibuster - he's too smart to know that if they announce it now then the rightwing will go to the presses that overwhelmingly suck up to republicans and do a media onslaught that'll bring down this vote. It's best that all senate democrats either keep their mouths shut or act like there ain't any filibuster in the works.

Reid is our man and Alito looks like a nut job. This is a game of chess - you don't announce your strategy before you even start the first move!

[mod mom]

1. I thought Kerry was working behind the scenes after the election. I think

we need to SCREAM F I L I B U S T E R!!!!!. To make sure they understand our position.

[LynneSin]

5. We should scream filibuster

and we should call and email and fax and do whatever it takes to let our senators know we want this guy filibustered.

But I don't want Reid screaming filibuster nor do I want any of the senate democrats doing the same.

As soon as the filibuster is on the table then they're going for the Nuclear Option. Reid is much smarter than that!

[debbierlus]

51. Exactly!

They are just keeping their brilliant plans, (A SECRET)!

Sure.

[Yupster]

67. I don't think Reid has a plan yet

There's supposed to be a meeting of Democratic senators next week.

My guess is it will be an exciting meeting. At the end they'll be a show of hands. How many will support a filibuster.

If 41 hands go up Reid has a plan.

If less than 40 go up Reid has to find a face saving way of giving up.

I don't think he knows yet himself.

[Ladyhawk]

58. Good point. This sounds like another "Kerry behind the scenes" or

"keep our powder" dry argument. Color me skeptical.

[Individualist]

61. Another "secret plan"

How many times have we heard that one before? :eyes:

[babylonsister]

2. I hope you're right, LynneSin!

I think we've had so many letdowns we're skeptical, but this would be a good and practical strategy.
So we hurry up and wait.

[LynneSin]

7. Tell me how Harry Reid has let you down in 2005?

The man took over the senate democrats after they actually LOST seats including the previous minority leader Tom Daschle. I pretty much felt that republicans would go rampant over legislation. But they didn't get Social Security, the didn't get Clear SKies Inititive, they didn't get more tax cuts and they didn't get ANWR. They did get John Roberts but the democrats also knew they only had it in them for one strong battle and Roberts was replacing Reinquist which was basically a wash.

Reid has earned this respect but you know, I could be wrong and that :scared: me!

[babylonsister]

10. Harry Reid hasn't, but other milquetoast Dems have. I

await their decision with hope in my heart! And I do like positive, optimistic posts such as yours!

[LynneSin]

18. Outside of Lieberman and Nelson he's kept them reigned in

And Lieberman has a stellar voting record when it comes to choice so I'm hopeful that we wouldn't lose him. We can lose 4 democratic senators and still filibuster.

[malaise]

14. Well I can't imagine Gore speaking on

a constitutional crisis next week while Dems lie back and vote for this appointment.

[glitch]

64. Hmm - that kind of coordination would give me great hope.

Very interesting dot to connect, thanks!

[Ladyhawk]

65. Let it be so, but I'm not holding my breath.

I WISH the Dems would create a united front, grow spines, do their jobs. We'll see. :(

[malaise]

69. What time is Gore speaking on Monday n/t

[laruemtt]

3. from your mouth to god's ears -

may you be correct in your assessment..........

[LynneSin]

20. or maybe I'm wrong

Whatever I am, we can't stop our fullcourt press on contacting our senators and letting them know how we feel!

[gulfcoastliberal]

4. Really hope you're right!!!

Reid didn't stop more massive tax cuts, draconian cuts to social programs, and other digusting GOP bills. If he fails on Alito, I'm considering him Worse than Daschle.

[KittyWampus]

9. You need to start blaming the Republicans and acknowledging they hold

the majority.

Really, if you consider Reid worse than Daschle, you haven't been paying any attention.

[Walt Starr]

6. Hopefully it will only be revealed on the call for a cloture vote

and Frist will not expect it, thus not changing his vote at the last moment, which means the question cannot be called again because nobody participating in the filibuster will call it!

[LynneSin]

12. Oh Frist is expecting it - he's not that dumb either

It's a media thing with what it all boils down to. Take a look at that dumbass manuever between Graham and Mrs. Alito. Graham was to do his damn best with his southern drawl 'aw shucks ma'am' to question Mrs Alito and to also say nice things about her husband. Mrs. Alito was coached to do one thing - CRY.

Nightly news they show Democrats looking like pit bulls and poor Mrs Alito crying her eyes out. That was pure republican manuevering if I ever saw it. Now all the major news outlets scream about how democrats are playing too rough on Alito and how they made Mrs Alito cry and they create online polls asking "Are Democrats too mean to Alito". Great tactical move by the republicans but sneaky as hell.

Frist cannot start going to the media about how evil filibusters are and how they'll pull a nuclear option until Reid comes out and says "We're filibustering". If Frist went out there and did say they would do a Nuclear Option then Reid would just shrug and ask when did the democrats every say anything about that - we're trying to be fair and thorough.

[BR_Parkway]

22. I like your reasoning, it's pretty solid sounding. Also, Reid gets to

say, Hey - we gave Roberts a fair hearing, we're really worried about Alito though, we're not just being obstructionist because we're Dems and the RePugs want him. Here's why Alito worries us: 1,2,3,4...19, 20 and so on.

Besides, if they aren't talking filabuster and nuclear option - what else does the media have to focus on - Alito, previous decisions, getting the message thru the clutter as to why regular Americans might not want this guy. If they used the F word right now, it'd be 24/7 non stop - with nothing else getting any attention.

[LynneSin]

24. I loved that last part and you're right

It's all about Alito - great call!

[sendero]

46. An aside...

... everyone assumes that just because the media played up the sympathy card for Ms Alito, that the nation bought into their premise.

Since when did a republican let feelings, respect, honor, dignity, fair play or restraint come into play? Believe me, Americans are short on facts because the MSM doesn't present many, but they know the score and how the game is played.

The only outrage you will hear across America over that little scene is feigned outrage from talking-point pukes.

[FreedomAngel82]

57. The only reason they did that

was to take away from the real issues at hand. That Alito is a rightwing fascists and he's against anyone who isn't white and male.

[MadHound]

8. I really hope that your assesment is correct

But given the Democratic track record over the past six years, well, call me less than enthused about things working out as you say. Doesn't mean I'm not calling mine and other reps(Bond and Talent are useless pigs), but I've got a really bad feeling about this one. Time will tell, and we all need to keep contacting our reps and pushing for the filibuster.

[nickinSTL]

17. "(Bond and Talent are useless pigs)"

I couldn't agree more.

I've emailed them twice now to oppose Alito...I know it won't work, but at least I'm on record.

[MoJoWorkin]

25. Yeah "Junk" Bond and "No" Talent are my worthless Senators, too.

I am contacting IL Senators Durbin and Obama, and Reid.

[LynneSin]

23. Ignore the years when Daschle was in charge and assess again

Reid proved that he was a masterful tactician as minority leader. He took over the senate democrat leader position after they had LOST seats in the previous election. Yet there was no pillaraging of Social Security, there was no expansion of tax cuts for the rich, there were no UN-Clear skies inititivies and poor Teddy Stevens didn't get to destroy Alaska with drilling even though the put the ANWR drilling in a must needed defense spending bill that including funding for the Katrina ravaged gulf coast.

Sure, some say we did nothing about Roberts, but democrats knew there were 2 seats to fill and didn't want to give it all away for a position opened up by Rehnquist. That replacement was a wash. This replacement changes the balance and is worth the filibuster

[Atman]

11. I rec'd that one

It's the first plausible, sane analysis I've heard...including some of my own! It does give me a ray of hope, and I haven't had to many rays of hope in the last couple of days. Thanks, LynnSin!

[DistressedAmerican]

13. DAMMIT LYNNE!

You gave away our little secret! I am calling Harry!

:evilgrin:

[LynneSin]

19. I'm just a tinfoil hat wearer who could very well be wrong

:tinfoilhat: <<<<-------Last picture of LynneSin (I'm having a problem with clearing up that jaundiced skin though)

[Surya Gayatri]

34. I just hope your tinfoil hat

proves to be a prescient political fashion statement for the coming season, Lynne! Harry is a great tactician, but will he be able to keep his 'herd of cats' in order? :shrug:

[LynneSin]

45. I know and I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong when I am

I honestly don't know if he has the votes. I don't know if Dianne Feinstein is serious or just trying not to be part of the evening news that she votes the way that pro-choice groups pay her to vote. I don't even know if my own senator Carper will stand with the democrats (I know Biden will - trust me on that one)

hold me I'm :scared:

[Surya Gayatri]

49. Well, I see Nelson, from my

former homestate of NE, has already publicly jumped ship, like the disguised Republirat that he is. No surprise there...SG

[LynneSin]

50. We can lose 5 and win

So it's ok, Reid probably knew that already!

[Surya Gayatri]

53. I just pray, like you say,

that they're keeping their powder dry and holding their cards close to their collective chest, not to mix my metaphors too much! HOLD 'EM, DON'T FOLD 'EM, Harry! SG

[LynneSin]

54. you and me both

:hug:

[Cooley Hurd]

15. K&R - They would be GODDAMN IDIOTS if they let on too soon...

...that they were planning a filibuster. You know how quickly the RW smear machine would crank up (as we're witnessing in the Martha-Ann fake tears episode).

You know and I know how IMPORTANT it is that Alito never gets anywhere near the SC. I'm sure most of our senators do, as well (certainly, Schumer and Feingold know).

[mmonk]

16. From a democratic constituent standpoint,

you better be right.

[deutsey]

21. Hope for the best...prepare for the worst

[ProfessorPlum]

26. I've heard this before . . .

Many other promises about Democratic politicians who promise that they "get it" and they will be effective.

My joy will be ever greater if they actually manage to pull it together for this one.

The GOP only has a 10 vote advantage in the Senate - why do the Democratic senators act like whipped dogs?

[wicket]

27. I really hope you are right...

This man isn't worthy of a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court.

[ananda]

28. Oh please god..

.. let that be true.

Without that filibuster of Alito, this country's minorities, women,
and underprivileged are truly fucked.

As if they already aren't to some extent, but it will get still
worse with Alito.

Sue

[converted_democrat]

29. I hope you're right, but I wouldn't bet the house on it...

According to many sources Dianne Feinstein has said that she finds nothing on his record filibuster worthy.. I mean if you're going to fight over a candidate, this is the one to do it .. He's a racist, a bigot, and a liar.. And won't answer many questions in regard to Roe.. This guy has filibuster written all over him, imho. Many here have stated that surely she will filibuster because of the vast donations she gets from womens groups, but I'm not so sure.. Her family is making bank right now off of defense contracts. Her family is raking it in as profiteers.. All I'm saying is that her hubby is making vast amounts of money right now, and her position may be compromised. I hope and pray that you're right, but I have hard time believing a war profiteer is going to do the right thing..

[LynneSin]

32. Feinstein has probably received more pro-choice money then anyone

on the judicial committee. And with all this 'quid pro quo' talk about money for votes scandal (Ie Abramoff), Feinstein would be crazy to talk filibuster. Her money is legitimate but the republicans would love nothing more than to portray Feinstein in the media as someone who is voting based on the money she has received from the various pro-choice groups out there. Reid probably told her to downplay filibustering

[converted_democrat]

47. I'm confused by what you're saying..

I realize she gets alot of money from pro-choice groups, but her hubby is making VAST amounts on defense contracts.. If it comes down to the money, her family is benefiting far more from the contracts than they are from the pro-choice donations. All I'm saying is that she flat out said that there was nothing on his record to filibuster over. I mean, they have her on camera stating that there is nothing to filibuster over, and I think that if she was going to do what you think she would've just kept her mouth shut instead of stating what she stated..Ted Kennedy's office told a couple people on the board yesterday that Feinstein still was not on board. They were on threads titled- I called Teddy Kennedy's Office Today.. They seem to think she's not going to go for it, and Ben Nelson is going to do the same.. Her family makes alot of money off of *'s war.. I think her loyalty lies with the wrong team.. I guess only time will tell, and I hope you're right.. But if I were a betting women, I would not bet on it.. I would never bet on a war profiteer doing the right thing.

[yodermon]

30. great analysis, 2 points:

1) You post is spot-on, provided that the Dems, um, actually end up filibustering.

2) Who is the one Senate Democrat who has outright said the filibuster is a "definite possibility"?
That's, right: Joseph "you don't announce your strategy before you even start the first move" Lieberman.
He deserves a big ol' :eyes:

[drm604]

31. Okay, so what happens if they do filibuster

and the Repubs nuke it? I'm not arguing against filibustering, I think that we have to, but we need more than just that. What's the winning game plan here? Is it likely that they would nuke it? If they do what's our response? Repeatedly calling closed sessions? Revoking mutual consent (is that the correct term)? Some other parliamentary tactic? What would make the Repubs fold on this? Do we simply stall somehow until half of them have been indicted? These aren't rhetorical questions. We need ideas!

[mmonk]

39. We would see how many republicans actually

believe in the nuclear option and the precedent of the executive branch determining Senate rules (through Cheney) if there is a filibuster. How much of the republican threat of creating another constitutional crisis is mere bluster? At least we would have our answer. How powerful is Frist anyway?

[bowens43]

59. Good point.

I never thought of it that way.

[stepnw1f]

33. Thank You Lynn... Good Point

I was thinking about this all morning.

[Strawman]

35. that's a fantasy of the "my daddy is an astronaut" variety

I like Reid. He may want to filibuster and he may be working to get the votes, but I think the idea of a "surprise it's a filibuster" strat is probably far fetched. How could they possibly keep something like that secret? All the negotiations to get reluctant Dems to go along? And would they want to?

It would be great if you were right, but I think that falls into the too good to be true realm of speculation.

[400Years]

37. Yes it's a fantasy, but some people insist on engaging in it

How many times do we have to be screwed over and still hear this drivel?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x127708

[LynneSin]

40. Do coaches release their strategy before the football game?

Democrats have plenty of secret meetings both as a group and one-on-one. Reid can very easily work the vote because as long as it's done in private then all we can do is play the guessing game (which I admit even I'm doing).

Reid worked the vote for the ANWR filibuster not only to ensure his votes but to cover his ass knowing that he had to let Mary Landrieu vote for the bill since there was necessary Katrina funds for her state in it and the fact that some bizarre reason Hawaii senators always support Alaska in this matter.

Just like Coach Andy Reid isn't going to go on ESPN the night before the big Eagles game and tell everyone his game plan, surely you don't expect Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid to do the same. But you can be rest assured that just because we don't see it doesn't mean that both the coach and the senator are behind the scenes working the numbers and plotting the strategy!

[WI_DEM]

36. bottom line is we need 40 votes to have have a filibuster

Nelson of NE has already indicated that he heard nothing in the hearings to disqualify this nominee as far as he is concerned. Feinstein has indicated that while she may vote against Alito she may not favor a filibuster. If we could get a couple of Republicans to go along with a filibuster our chances are much better, but it won't be Specter. The two Senators from Maine are possibilities but they usually cave and support George on these big issues. Then there is Chafee, but he is facing a tough primary in RI and he may decide to support his party on this issue, but then he may forfeit that pro-choice support he got for his re-election.

[bowens43]

60. and we need 51 to stop the threatened rules change.

[mzmolly]

38. Boy I hope so.

eom

[PATRICK]

41. A long way to go

Experience has given us a gut fear to go along with quiet faith. That we should be already despairing over the Dems comes from a feeling WE SHOULD NOT HAVE but has been ground into us by placing too much trust into needlessly demure smart silent strategies than often were there only in our prudent imaginations. It will take a lot of overt and strong actions to restore trust in our party which is one big big fact that is little mentioned in its awful clarity each time a milestone of evil is passed.

Taking a view based on past results I expect some attempt at some kind of filibuster. I expect wavering and temerity to go hand in hand with little bravura facing a media that is even so partially on our side this time, little reaching out to the majority of anti-Bushco people who don't respect overcautious Dems.
Then even if successful, there is the next time, the next step, and Bushco will be allowed as usual to have the first moves, middle moves and final moves and skip their turn at will.

And we will have the same gut feeling that the nation may be let down the next time and the next until boldly fighting for our lives becomes a party habit for our reps.

They have to recognize that their media image and the election system upon which the swing to the right and fearful caution of the past twenty years- has been the biggest fraud of them all. Shake it off, for God's sake.

[LynneSin]

43. We need exactly what you said

because we need to be doing the hardest push imaginable with contacting our senators about supporting the filibuster.

[theboss]

42. Would any Dems from the Gang of 14 be on board?

I can't see Lieberman, Byrd, etc supporting a filibuster here.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. I agree. This is a "sneak attack"

so to speak. Remember when Reid surprised the repukes and called for a closed session in the Senate over getting some answers from the administration about Iraq? THE REPUKES WERE SURPRISED, INDIGNANT, COMPLETELY CAUGHT OFF-GUARD and PISSED AS HELL. :)

Yep...the Dems WILL filibuster, but shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....don't tell anyone!

[theboss]

48. Will Byrd, Lieberman, DiFi, etc participate?

Because they need to have 40 on board.

[EFerrari]

62. Dianne is getting a very clear message from her constituents

and she is up for re-election.

We have to keep calling right up to the vote.

[bpilgrim]

52. we've heard this many times before

but i hope you are right, on the other hand i also think that they calculate - being the politico geniuses they are - that a fight on this is un-winnable and therefore unwise.


more...
http://GlobalFreePress.com

peace

[LynneSin]

55. Hope is all I have and even then it's shaky

But if democrats all started screaming about how they're gonna filibuster we'd be so screwed on the vote!

[FreedomAngel82]

56. You could be right

I think this is why he came out in favor of Miers. He knew she was a smoke screen. If Reid and the democrats came out in full force against her they would say "see, the democrats are doing it again" blah blah nonsense. So they had to play smart than and now they can come out against him. I hope and pray that they do and come out strong.

[FogerRox]

63. never telgraph your punches

If the DEMS SHUT DOWN THE SENATE lets gop to9 DC to support them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2365675

[pat_k]

66. Whatever they are up to, WE need to CONTACT THEM!

Alito ACTION ALERT

[incapsulated]

68. Although I agree they wouldn't talk openly about it...

I don't know that the silence means that they will do it, necessarily. I think that's why they want another week, to discuss....

[BlueIris]

70. I just...have this feeling. All is not what it seems. And I trust Reid.

As well as other leaders, goddamnit. Here's what I know, and the hateful and distrustful on this board can disagree if they want: our Party wouldn't abandon us to Alito unless they had any other options. Even if he winds up confirmed, something that is still NOT a done deal in my eyes, they did all they could. Look back over the process, the options they had, the things they've done and are still doing. Bottom line: they look reasonably calm for a bunch of folks who just "gave up" on keeping a sane judicial balance on their country's highest court, while alienating most of their own voters and endangering many citizens. So...there might be another explanation for why they don't look like all is now lost. I don't know what that explanation is, exactly, but--I'm hopeful. I don't think it's time to cry and claim we should leave them or the fight yet. This is not over.