Wow, They are going after the businesses that are hiring

[Cleita]

brown workers that are taking all those good jobs from Americans my local news is reporting. They just interviewed the owners of a car wash and some farmers who say it's almost impossible to tell the false documentation from the real ones. Then they interviewed an INS service who says they don't have the manpower to decide whether documentation is legitimate or not.

In the meantime the business owners said they aren't going to take any chances so anyone who might be an illegal brown person won't be hired.

So there you go all those good jobs washing cars and picking onions are up for grabs!

[Vexatious Ape]

1. What? No Tyson,

No ConAgra????????

[katinmn]

2. No 3rd party Halliburton vendors?

:shrug:

[Erika]

4. They'll exempt corporations making millions off cheap labor

Saying its a national security issue to keep stockholders strong and profitable.

[Vexatious Ape]

9. Thats right

Just like Teddy Roosevelt said: "The business of america is business" Or something like that. Hope I didn't mangle the quote.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. for $20 you can have an answer in 24 hours about a SS#

Don't let them bullshit us any longer!!

[The Traveler]

5. Both sides of this debate

vastly oversimplify the matter.

Man, the potential for discriminatory abuse here is scary. Anyone who doesn't get that is either blind or truly a racist. And I say this as someone who is in large agreement with Lou Dobbs on the issue.

Do I want amnesty for illegals? No. BUT ... the downsides of amnesty may well be less damaging than the consequences of not granting it. On a more personal basis, I know a lot of illegals I would rather see just take the oath of citizenship. They would be better citizens than many naturally born Americans of my acquaintance.

But we have to get some control over the numbers. Around here, school systems, judicial systems, and welfare systems are crashing under the load. We just can't handle the magnitude of the problem. Practical considerations require practical solutions, and those solutions better be tempered with some humility and humanity.

Me, I don't believe in "guest worker" programs. That worked so well for France. :sarcasm: No. I think we need to get these folk onto the citizenship track while we seal the borders as best we can.

[Cleita]

6. You can be sure the price of your food is going to go up

if the crops don't get picked. Scarcity is what pushes the prices up not decent wages and benefits to the workers. You wait and see if these nonsense continues your food is going to go right up there along with your gas.

As far as the car washes, those owners of SUVS, Mercedes and Vans can wash their own cars like I do.

[The Traveler]

7. I wash my own cars

And if food prices rise because people are being paid properly for an honest day's work, that's OK. What I object to is being sucked dry by Fat Bastard so he can live in a mansion and keep his mistress supplied with cocaine. I object to poor people being ruthlessly exploited by a system built on the assumptiont that "greed is good".

[Cleita]

10. The point is that they don't go up because people are being

paid properly. They go up because of demand and if there is scarcity because the crops rot in the fields then the prices will go up and this is really not very good for the poor of any nationality is it?

In my area the farm workers are unionized and make twice minimum wage and most of the workers are Mexican. It has been documented that the prices of grapes and produce didn't go up because of this before they were unionized.

Market value is determined by supply and demand, nothing else. When there is scarcity then demand will increase. Looks like Bush fucked up another one.

[treestar]

36. But you're objecting to that so much that the very poorest can

starve just so you don't have to see that fat bastard prosper.

At least he gave them a job.

And they aren't going to hire the unemployed Americans, who probably want high tech jobs.

Who are the unemployed Americans? LOL, no one ever looks at that.

[Cleita]

37. There's so much that no one is looking at.

No one has posted any facts to their allegations that they have lost jobs or got paid less because of immigrants. No one can seem to be able to put up documentation that is proof of this. Incidentally, the car wash guy hired other people than Mexicans as well. He said the Mexicans all had papers, so could it be possible that many of them had legitimate work permits?

Now even if they are legal they are going to go without a job because Mr. Carwash doesn't want to risk getting into trouble.

[sandnsea]

8. Low Wage Workers

Whether citizens or not, low wage workers are going to need to use the schools, hospitals and social services. The jobs aren't going to change just because citizens do them. I don't understand why the anti-immigrant people don't get that.

[Cleita]

11. Back when I was a kid the County Hospitals took on

the task of caring for the poor and uninsured. Back then communities realized the poor needed somewhere to go and this was their solution.

Today, many county hospitals have closed their doors for lack of funding thanks to penny pinching Republican supervisors and the ones still open operate under hellish conditions of understaffing and budget constraints.

[PublicRadioVet]

12. I was a "low wage" worker...

...when I was 16.

Fast Food, and bagging groceries. And yard work. Can't forget yard work. I made $3.25 an hour. And that was after my 10-cent raise.

Once upon a time, the white children of America did the, "Jobs Americans Won't Do".

This was back in the days when American parents did the, "Parenting Parents Won't Do."

Or, rather, back in the days when American dads did the, "Ass-kicking Dads Won't Do."

It's time to get the youth of America off their fat butts and gainfully employed. Businesses SHOULD be nervous about breaking the law. That they have broken the law for decades, and profitted because of it, is a thorough scandal. I am happy to see any effort made to crack down on businesses who exploit the illegal situation. They help nobody.

Meanwhile, somewhere, there is a lawn in need of mowing, and a soft, pampered white kid sitting in a basement playing his Game Cube or XBox, who could use a little sunshine, fresh air, and some sweat on his brow.

:patriot:

P.S: Yes, I am totally serious.

[Cleita]

13. Kids in my area do get off their fat asses and work

at minimum wage jobs. There just aren't enough of them. When you can tell me that you had to support yourself on your minimum wage job then I might believe that you know what your are talking about.

[PublicRadioVet]

15. I actually had 3 minimum wage jobs...

All part-time, all low-paying. My wife had 2. Together we made less than $10K the first year we were married (1994) and our church had to help feed us when we got kicked out of our live-in job that kept a roof over our heads.

Have I impaled myself enough on the Altar of Poverty for you to take me seriously?

[Cleita]

25. Fair enough.

It's just that your solution doesn't address the real problem, the need for labor in certain businesses and at certain times. For one thing the kids can't work when they are in school so the business owner needs workers at those times. Since I live in an agricultural and ranching area, many hands are needed to harvest the crops during the times of the year when the crops become ripe.

In medieval times, everyone dropped whatever they were doing to bring in the harvest, but as you can see that is not a good solution in this day and age.

[Erika]

14. Why did you say anything about the "white" children?

The unemployment rate is way down. People will take jobs but want fair pay for a fair day's work. Right out of the Bible. What does color of skin have to do with it?

[PublicRadioVet]

16. Maybe it's because...

...I see lots of white kids down at the community college, kicking back on Mom and Dad's dime, smoking dope and acting like they are too cool or angst-ridden to work, while the Mexicans and African Americans and Asians and Pacific Islanders are down at the Jack In The Box earning an honest living.

White children in America are, compared to a generation or three ago, horribly lazy. They have been made so by a dumbing-down of the parental authority system, and parents too busy or too disinterested to do what is best for their kids; like shove them out the door with a damn job application in hand.

'nuff said.

[Erika]

17. I have mixed races in my family and I totally disagree

Color has nothing to do with it. And as I stated unemployment is extremely low.

[PublicRadioVet]

21. We all see the world differently, don't we?

Oh yes, I am in an interracial marriage. So neener neener.

I am still serious, if a bit tongue-in-cheek about it.

Kids these days balk at work I did as a matter of course when I was there age. Now that I am back in school I get ill listening to these kids talk about how working fast food is "beneath them". And these are not kids from rich Republican gated communities. These are your run-of-the-mill middle class liberal kids from Seattle.

Apparently, they all plan to go straight into a comfy six-figure career.

Sounds great to me, but I still get ill listening to them talk like this.

Hard work, especially in the young, breeds character. And this nation could use a helluva lot of character right now.

[dailykoff]

18. You got married when you were sixteen?

There's your problem right there. Kids these days have no self-control. :patriot:

[Erika]

19. They should have had better parenting

Now they are going to have to work harder because of that lack. Poor babies.

[PublicRadioVet]

20. Nah, got married at 19!

She was 30, too. And no, she was not pregnant. We waited ten years before we had our first.

I still did not escape "low wage" work until I entered the tech sector at age 24.

[sandnsea]

22. A Reagan baby

Too young to ever know what a good economy was so has absolutely nothing to compare it to except the spew that has been coming out of Rush Limbaugh's mouth for the last 20 years. Too bad. I do hope you wait a while longer to have kids, I know you don't have any now or you wouldn't talk about kids like that. Well now wait, I know some Republicans who think kids should still be making $3.00 hr, cuz what do they need the money for anyway since mommy and daddy pay all the bills. It's always some line of shit to cover up their greed, damned Republicans.

[solinvictus]

27. $3.35/hour...

..in 1989 delivering and repossessing furniture and electronics for a rent-to-own company, that was my first job. Part of the problem is that outsourcing has caused traditional retail, fast-food, and delivery positions to be filled with adults who have absolutely no other options. Seriously, here in Birmingham, AL, I regularly see adults filling these entry level positions. I live in a fairly wealthy suburb where most of the high school kids drive a nicer vehicle than I have. Now, seriously, are these kids going to work in fast food or retail? Not as long as mom and dad keep fronting the $$ for their bills.

[kestrel91316]

41. Thank you. Wish you could come here to Los Angeles and deliver

the appropriate ass-kicking to all the teens here who do nothing but party all night (creating a neighborhood disturbance fit to wake the dead) and cruise around in the expensive car Daddy bought them all day, with boom-box blaring. A bigger bunch of lazy smart-asses I never saw.

NONE of the teens here work, except maybe at computer places or cell phone places, hawking the latest gadgets to their friends, paid for BY DADDY, of course.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

23. Going After Employers Has ALWAYS Been the Simple Solution

Big Business has always prevented this in the past. The existing laws are sufficient, it's actual ENFORCEMENT of the existing laws that has been lacking.

Personally, I think illegal immigrants of ALL races and national origins should be curtailed, and legal quotas from Mexico and other North American nations should be increased dramatically.

DTH

[Cleita]

28. You have the answer no one will look at.

"...legal quotas from Mexico and other North American nations should be increased dramatically."

Right there is the solution but the racism of many Americans can't handle this because it goes against what they really want, which is no brown people speaking a language they can't understand, coming here and aspiring to be Americans.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. What is the big deal about checking SS numbers?

In FL, I already have to submit a form to the state for every person I hire for their deadbeat parent program. It is amazing how good these people are at tracking these folks down and garnishing their wages. Why is it any harder for an employer to check SS numbers and for the gov to verify?

What is unfair about the whole illegal worker issue is the employers who hire these people. It is unfair to someone like me who doesn't knowingly hire illegals. I pay more then minimum wage and provide health insurance and other benefits to my employees. The people who like to hire illegals do not. That makes it a lot harder for the honest employers to be competitive. That's why the dishonest employers love illegals. They don't have to pay them much and they can stuff all the money they save into their own pockets.

There are simply solutions to solve the verification issues, it's just that there are enough big and powerful corporations who don't want to and BushCo won't do anything to upset their corporate sponsors. Instead, they'll go after a few little guys and for the rest it will be business has usual.

[Cleita]

26. You can get a social security in this country without having

a work permit. I won't say how because I don't think I should be telling people how do it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. That's not my problem

It is up to SS to make sure they don't give numbers to people who aren't legal.

It's not that hard to figure out.

[Cleita]

34. The law says under certain circumstances, which I am not going

to lay out here because I don't want to teach anyone how do this, that foreigners who do not have work permits can get legal SS #s.

Hint, hint. How do you think all those furriners like Rupert Murdoch, the bin Ladin family and many others do business here?

[FlaGranny]

33. I just went back to work

and had to submit two forms of verification of my identity to my employer and swear on penalty of evil being done to my person that I was a "legal" worker. Of course, I have no idea if anyone really follows up on it.

[Cleita]

35. They don't have the manpower to check every car washer in

or other menial in the country. Unless you are on par with Carlos the Jackal or other undesirables, you won't be checked up on.

[DoYouEverWonder]

42. Yes, you had to complete an I-9 form

Which employers are supposed to get from every new hire along with two pieces of ID. However, that info just goes in your personnel file. The IRS nor anyone else ever asks to see a copy. At this point, it's mostly a waste of time and paper.

That's why I don't see what's the big deal for the IRS or Feds to verify SS #'s. Most employers are already doing their part, all the Feds have to do is collect the info and verify the #'s.

Also, all this info is provided to the State and Feds when I do my quarterly unemployment taxes. You would think they could figure out if the SS numbers are legitimate at that point.

[wishlist]

29. All employers have to do is call the Social Sec office to verify number

What is so hard about an employer calling their local Social Security office to find out if the name and Social Security number of their employees is a match with the govt database? Soc Sec is allowed to freely give out enough info to employers to let them know that the number they are providing belongs to a different person and is not legitimate.

This excuse about false documents is B.S. because despite the false documents, all employers need to do is check with Social Security immediately after hiring.

I know for a fact from working with both employers and current staff at my local Social Sec office that Soc Sec staff have been allowed for many years to give out verification over the phone regarding whether employees names and numbers match.

[Cleita]

30. Checking the SS number doesn't guarantee the person has

a work permit or "green" card. Many foreigners have legal SS #'s and don't have a "green" card. Every illegal immigrant I knew from the UK, who had entered from Canada had one and it was a legal SS number in their name.

[LostInAnomie]

31. Yeah, by all mean, lets keep the race to the bottom going!

That is such a fuck bullshit cop out by the business owners. Of course they are going to say it is impossible to tell if the person they are hiring is a legal citizen. They want to keep hiring them to suppress wages. They want to keep the wages low and profits high no matter what the social effects are.

If it gets expensive to wash cars and pick crops, develop new technology. If they don't have enough people at INS to check records, hire more. After all that is what the market demands, and these people are all for the free market.

[earth mom]

38. Glad to know they are starting to go after employers. eom

[Cleita]

39. If they were going after WalMart or

the behemouth agri-businesses I would be elated, but instead they are going after the small business owners and farmers.

[earth mom]

40. I hope they do go after the big sharks, not the little guy.

But my guess is that they probably won't and soon this whole thing will die down and it will be business as usual because it's not important enough for people to fight to protect workers rights in this country. Even with the good news about Ken Lay today-I still think that corporate america has the country locked so tightly in their grip that they will never let go-it's all too entrenched.

Meanwhile, I will never understand the greed of the people behind what's happening in this country today. Never. You can't take it with you, you know.

[ny_liberal]

43. Supply and demand determines the value of labor

If you limit the endless supplies of cheap illegal labor, employers will have to raise wages.

[newspeak]

44. when I worked for a road striping company

back in the nineties, the Federal government put out guidelines on how to spot a fake green card and social security card. Since the company I worked for hired immigrants, it was my responsibility to check and see if their cards were not fakes. I had no problem spotting a fake green card or SSN card. Why are these employers stating that it's difficult to spot one? Have they changed something since then? Does the government still distribute the guidelines pamphlets? Or are employers trying to make excuses?

[catmandu57]

45. Recently, A large meat processing plant was opened

near here. They were given tax increment financing, on the condition that they would hire local people and not illegals. A couple of months ago the INS raided this plant took away 250 illegal aliens, and in the last couple of weeks it's coming out that they aren't providing the information promised to keep their tax deferrments in order and not providing information on the legality of their workforce.
They need to come in to this plant once a week to clean it out. This is a depressed area, the jobs pay well, and there are people standing in line waiting to get in there.

[warrens]

46. Oh good, now I can go back to school and get a master's in being a maid

I've always wanted to wear one of them little black outfits with the duster. I assume I will make $80k to start, with a company car, four weeks vacation, bonuses, full health care and a pension, now that them little brown people aren't depressing wages.