If Dumbya were to pardon Kkkarl...what would be the fallout?

[dysfunctional press]

i've had people tell me that he wouldn't ever dare try it...
why not?
his dad got away with pardoning cappy & the weinberger 7- and the repuke party didn't pay any price for it either- they even knocked the dems out of congress the very next election cycle.

it could be said that Ford paid a price for his pardon of nixon, that of not being elected- but the repuke party came back just fine- after one term of Carter, they came back with sleepy raygun and poppy smirk.

and since he doesn't EVER have to face the electorate(as if that were an issue anyway- wink, wink...) again- what's the downside for team cheneyco if the boy blunder pardons his svengali?

anyone?

[RagingInMiami]

1. A week of negative news

And then everything will be all-right again.

[autorank]

3. Hey buddy, cheers to you!!!

I still think of that great post you did on the AZ border situation...events remind me. I want to send it to a friend in the movement in LA. Can you post a link here or PM me.

Have you seen this place. Very funny but looks real...

http://internationalpress.blogspot.com/

[RagingInMiami]

7. Thanks, buddy

Here is when the DU journals come in handy.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/RagingInMiami/13

[autorank]

2. People would be furious ... then all Hell would break loose...

Lets get him indicted first, then past his ass to the wall. He's doing time, period.
Pardoning him is an affront to everybody.

We need to remember this wacky fact, DU is no longer unrepresentative...everybody is
completely pissed off. People who always opposed him, people who never get involved,
people who supported him.

By the time it's all over, he'll have a new nick name and his own personal avatar;)

[dysfunctional press]

5. "all hell would break loose"...please define.

"all hell" didn't break loose when ford pardoned nixon...nor when poppy pardoned cappy + 7...and those both happened with democratic controlled congresses.

so realistically- what, chimpy worry?

[autorank]

18. With Nixon - Ford, there had been a full public vetting.

Initially press coverage was sparse but it exploded. Television, radio, magazine...it was all there. The hearings were extensive, everybody watched. There was a sense of justice from that. We all knew Nixon lived to BE PRESIDENT and that this was major punishment. The pardon was wrong and the election in 1976 showed how people felt about that. Carter came from no where but enough people at the margins were irritated to put him in.

Now, our current situation is different. There is no print press, no television, no major magazine coverage that even comes close to hard hitting. Something pops up and goes away. The 60% of the people who "disapprove" of Bush had to go looking for information, e.g., on the internet, with small publications, talking to friends and taking leads. The 60% plus disapproval folks are truly pissed off and there has been no opportunity to express that. The lack of hearings is particularly galling.

So there is huge pent up hostility, huge. An event like a pardon, which would have to be covered, would pop the cork.

Watergate and this situation have some structural similarities but in terms of public attitude, it's entirely different. Nixon won a huge victory and the majority supported him. Bush stole it and never had strong support except from the 30% that would support him under any circumstances.

I could be wrong, but a Rove pardon or something else galvanizing will cause a surge of public rage that even MSM cannot contain any longer.

[dysfunctional press]

19. you're talking about a time when the press had actual journalists...

if the coup that took place in December 2000 didn't stir them to action, why would bush pardoning rove due to a miscommunication/misunderstanding about val's classified status be a big deal...?
the general public is not all that tuned into the whole thing, and in the broader sense- who/what kkkarl rove really is.

[autorank]

20. We agree on the press...and that's why anti Bush sentiment now is so

amazing...people have alternate methods of news and analysis. Thus, the absence of MSM is not that significant and all this has built up among the public on it's own steam. We've been at it so long; I'm a bit jaded. But this is not wishful thinking. I too was disgusted with 2000 and wondered the same myself about the passive response. But there was no precedent and it was very well managed by "them" through MSM...extremely well managed. The last comparable political cluster **** was the Compromise of 1976, not much public awareness.

Now we've had six years of this bum. Let me ask you this? Don't you think it would be a salve to the public that hates * and which passively accepted him for so long to see * go down in a series of scandals culminating in an actual demonstration of election fraud. That would be both true and get people off the hook who voted for him (without really learning the lessons of voting or not voting when a monster is on the ticket).

I could be wrong. We will see.

[dysfunctional press]

21. most of the public doesn't HATE bush...

in fact, they find him kind of likable...I don't, and i don't understand why others do- but the hate/disgust you and i and a lot of others might feel for the guy doesn't really permeate the public domain as much as you might like to think.

[autorank]

25. QuestionAll, we've gotta get you out with the people...

...not liked, not liked anymore.  There were the
"sheeple, the 40% who beieve form faith or faith in MSM's
version, who bought this but he lost 2000 and he also lost
2004.  He's disliked by many people, 60 % don't approve of him
AND WORSE "favorable" "unfavorable" as to
the person, not the job (* has always done very well in these
until the election

POLL	Favorable  Unfavorable	Date
-------------------------------------------
Hotline	   37	      59	25-May
Fox	   40	      55	25-May
Zogby	   42	      55	16-May

The people don't really like *.

In the same polls, McCain does well in a national presidential
race so there's more learning due; which will come from more
of McCain, more Republican pain (a certainty) and a few
zillion showings of McCain hugging * and endorsing him.  

It's happening...

[dysfunctional press]

28. most real "people" are too concerned with their own lives...

and just trying to get by, than to actively "hate" anybody. they also realize that it's not just the guy at the top that's the real problem- it's the whole system that's gamed against them. besides, it's cheney who should be more the focus of people's ire anyway- bush is just his lackey.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. Fundies would praise Jesus.

[Jazz2006]

6. Why wouldn't he?

It's been a long tradition on both sides of the political spectrum, and not one that we can claim hasn't been utilized - sometimes shamelessly - by our side, too.

Especially in the cases of an outgoing prez.

So, I just don't see this particular issue as something that Dems should try to capitalize on - too much historical fodder for the bad guys to deflect with.


And you just KNOW that their rebuttals and deflections will get way more press than whatever pardons * grants on his way out, given the state of the MSM these days.

I'll be happy enough to see the bastards driven out of office, and won't actually waste too much time worrying about how many of them get pardoned as the door slaps their asses on the way out, not because I don't care about justice - I do, deeply and daily, and I make my living doing so - but because I've learned over the years that my caring about the pardons won't get them un-pardoned, and there are so many other things to worry about and work on that can actually be changed and affected more immediately.

Some day.... maybe we can change the whole pardon process.

But not today.

Fortunately, there are other, more immediate issues that we can and will change.



But great thread and great question, just the same :hi:

[leftofthedial]

8. no downside

and the idiot Murkan masses would forget all about it

reality being too complicated and all

[Eugene]

9. Bush may not have to face the voters, but many fellow Repugs do.

If the Bushies valued legitimacy, credibility, or moral authority,
pardoning Rove would be inconceivable. But since they only believe
in power and fear, Bush may just be dumb enough to try it.

Expect most Republican Congress critters to run for their lives.
Bush may be able to save Rove and Cheney from prosecution,
but any hopes of pushing his agenda through Congress will be
shot to Hell. The Bush presidency will be over in all but name.
The Republican Congress has already shown that they won't follow
our Dim Dear Leader off a cliff.

[dysfunctional press]

11. so what?

the very next election after poppy pardoned cappy- the repukes took over congress.

[Oeditpus Rex]

10. Nothing

There'd be righteous anger and gnashing of teeth, etc. for about a week. * might lose another point or two in the polls.

Wouldn't matter. "Political capital," remember?

[SoCalDem]

12. Not a damned thing.. That's the pity of presidential pardons

The baby goes out with the bathwater..

I think the intent of the pardon, was to prevent purely political prosecutions, and to allow a president to "wipe the slate" clean, so might discourage people from relentless prosecution ..(Hah!..see Clinton)..

Over the years it has morphed into a "get out of trouble" card for every scurrilous politico-freak, and most administrations use it to cover their asses..

Scooter will get pardoned..mark my words, as will Kenny-Boy, and and any other F.O.G. who manages to get indicted, prosecuted, or jailed...

It would be nice if duly prosecuted felons were unpardonable until they have served at least half of their sentence..

[marions ghost]

14. right

the problem is in the system that allows it. There is NO justification for pardoning these political criminals, none whatsoever. It's what has made our justice system a cruel joke. White collar criminals in general get away with murder.

Presidential pardons for cronies needs to be eliminated. Otherwise they keep abusing it over and over. These days the guilty can go on to have a new lease on life after pardon. There is no real accountability despite all the special prosecutors and investigations at taxpayer's expense. It's a slap in the face to honest, law-abiding citizens. Just another tool for enabling the corrupt.

[Philosoraptor]

13. One week of outrage, then back to American Idol

No atrocity can't be forgotten within a week or so.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

15. Count on a Pardon

Absolutely Bush will pardon everyone at risk as thanks for their service and as a hush-up to prevent anyone from cooperating with the Feds.

DTH

[DemoTex]

16. I tend to agree with you.

If Cheney is indicted, expect a pardon too. I think that Ken Lay's pardon, if convicted and sentenced (and ordered to prison), is a sure thing too (it has been bought and payed for many times over).

On the other hand, why not Delay and Cunningham, too? Bu$h doesn't particularly like either, but either could do serious damage turning state's evidence.

[global1]

17. Radiation From The "Newcular" Hit On Iran By *Co To Use As .....

a distraction from all the bad press they'd get if * pardoned Rove.

[RagAss]

22. Nothing would happen....what the fuck ever "happens"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. No One But Us Would Care.

That's my prediction.

[Jacobin]

24. He would be praised as a compassionate statesman

and his polls would go up.

Sadly

[Samantha]

26. None

Some people would be irate, including me. Yet I expect it to happen because:

Bush can do it
He does not care who likes it or not
There's nothing anyone can do about it

If Rove gets dragged into being a target and facing a trial, Bush* will pardon him. That's my hunch.

[upi402]

27. and the tv news media will be silent

the traitors...

[saltpoint]

29. It seems as if Bush could get away with it if his approval was

higher than it is.

He can't even get the support of Republicans in Congress these days. A Rove pardon, if events prompt one, would seal the claim Dems have made that this president cheats to win, protects his rich friends, and is emotionally unplugged from day-to-day Americans' concerns.

Bush could pardon Karl and Kenny Boy both, but if voters give it a moment's thought as they stand at gas pumps coast to coast filling their cars with $3.00-a-gallon gasoline, those pardons are going to go down badly. It will look like Bush excuses criminality and greed while dismissing honest wage earners' authentic plight.

And they are not likely to reward his party for that kind of leadership.

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. NOTHING and they know it. They OWN the MSM. n/t

[leeroysphitz]

31. A pardon for what? I'm still WAITING for a friggin' indictment! nt