Pardon for Lay? I don't think so.

[speedoo]

What's the positive result for * in pardoning Kenny Boy? I can't think of a single plus.

But I could certainly see a huge public outcry. Even his RW base would not like it, IMO.

Lay was found guilty of EVERYTHING!!! A pardon by * would be disastrous.

Am I wrong? What would be the upside for *?

[SteppingRazor]

1. I don't think any rational observer of this realy expects a pardon...

As you said, there's no upside to it. Bush long ago disavowed Ken Lay.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. Since he "Didn't know Mr Lay" there isn't any reason for a pardon.

The basic problem is that Mr. Lay doesn't come from old money, nobody is going to bail his ass out of this.

[Clark2008]

18. True, but "rational" and "Bush Adminstration" don't mix.

Oil and vinegar.

[SteppingRazor]

29. I agree...

but just because the Bush administration and many oof its followers lack the capacity for higher thinking doesn't mean we need to follow suit by believing he'll pardon people when he has no reason to do so and, relative to other presidents, has pardoned pretty much no one.

[Jack from Charlotte]

19. No downside. Bush pardon's on last day in office. Just like his diddy...

did with all those Iran/Contra guys in his administration.

[SteppingRazor]

28. Yes, but those Iran/Contra guys probably could've implicated Bush Sr.

I don't believe the same could be said for Lay and Skilling

[ComerPerro]

32. There's no downside to him doing it right now, even

[Drum]

2. Cheney

must be furious, and scared...crapping in his nappies.

[Booster]

4. Wonder if Kenny Boy kept his notes from the Cheney energy

meetings. hmmmmmmm

[Drum]

8. precisely!

Look for some rumbling in the months to come, as these two Enron crooks maneuver to lighten their sentences by selling out whoever they can.
Pathetic.
Nevertheless, I'd love to hear about those secret energy-planning meetings to crack open and come to light.
As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant....

[Howardx]

3. im with you on this

bush hardly knows the guy according to his story so why would he pardon him?

[Orsino]

5. There's no positive...

...unless Lay knows something about */Cheney that could still do damage.

[Jacobin]

6. Think about it for just a minute

They are out on bail for 18 months pending appeal.

AFTER the prez elections, but before the new prez is sworn in, he pardons.

Lay gives 10 million donation to prez library.

ITS HOW IT FUCKING WORKS IN THIS COUNTRY.

No one to scream at because Bush is then history, can't run again

[Mikimouse]

14. If they get out on bail after sentencing, I suspect that...

they will both disappear. I hope that the prosecution has made contingency plans for that scenario. Furthermore, I (and I suspect others) would show great interest in such a donation, considering that the POS has ben crying about being broke for the better part of two months. I say hold them both, in custody, while the appeals are pending. That would accomplish at least one thing. It would speed up the process of appeal, and would probably result in the convictions being upheld soober, rather than later. Then, * would feel compelled to act prior to the '08 elections. Just my 2 cents.

[karlrschneider]

20. Is it possible to get out on bail -after- sentencing?

If so, is it at the court's discretion?

[Jacobin]

21. its routine, unfortunately

they will be out on bail pending an 18 month or longer appeal

[H2O Man]

7. The exact opposite:

President Bush will attempt to take credit for the Department of Justice's prosecuting his former friends and supporters. There is zero evidence of Bush showing loyalty in situations like this. There is plenty of evidence of Bush attempting to capitalize on other people's misfortune.

[MessiahRp]

9. I believe he'll pardon Lay...

Here's my thought process...

1. Since when has Bush given a shit what anyone thinks about him anyway?

2. Even if he waits until his last day in office this guy has the pen to get all of his corporate buddies out of jail, there are no reprecussions when he is leaving office.

3. He is not facing re-election in 2008.

4. The conservatives are already fighting with him he wouldn't care about pardoning his buddies even if it hurt future conservative campaigns since they didn't roll over for Bush's every whim.

I don't think he cares about political upside. He's already re-elected. In his mind he owns the right to do whatever he wants no matter what anyone thinks about it. Do you think he would have pushed the NSA director Hayden onto the CIA job if he cared about what people think of his scandals?

Rp

[speedoo]

13. You have not identified any upside for * to pardon.

There is plenty of downside. Even if his political life is over, there is evidence that, demented as he is, he actually does care about his legacy... he has as much as said so. And a pardon would shred any positive legacy to pieces.

And, the Republican Party will exert a lot of pressure against a pardon, because they realize they would bear the negative brunt for a long time.

[MessiahRp]

26. The point I was making is

Bushco could give a fuck about political upside. They didn't care about political upside when they went after Social Security, they didn't care about political upside when they nominated Hayden in the midst of a NSA scandal. Political upside means very little to a President who takes comfort in knowing he does not face the electorate again.

Rp

[LSK]

10. Does Bush CARE about the public outcry anymore????

The positive for him is getting his buddy out of prison.

[davepc]

11. He's the decider....

and he'll decide to bail out his cronies.

[warrens]

12. You think Smirk cares?

Lay and Skilling helped him get elected, repeatedly. I don't know if he will pardon them, but there's plenty of upside, directly and indirectly. They'll keep raising money for him if they walk.

[Imagevision]

16. Who guilty politician did Sr. Bush pardon before leaving his term?

Like father like son, especially since Lay contributed so much to Bush being elected!

[Imagevision]

17. huge public outcry?!? - Pardon won't happen before 1/08 dude

[Toucano]

22. The upside for Bush is loyalty.

It's his psychological profile.

Cutting him loose weakens Bush's hold on his other minions.

Sentencing is scheduled for Sept. 11th. LOL!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. Loyalty was my first thought when I read the OP. eom

[lectrobyte]

25. Exactly. Also the issue of what dirt Lay may have on Cheney etc.

[ProfessorPlum]

23. Bush's father effectively pardoned HIMSELF in 1992 and got away with it

by pardoning all the people who were being investigated in Iran/Contra. Weinberger had just been hung by his own diary, and he informed Poppy Bush that he was "not going to jail". Poppy got the message, and pardoned them all on Christmas Eve, 1992. Walsh, the investigator, had his entire work dumped into the toilet, and justice was completely foiled.

And no one ever talks about it, even to this day.

[AndyTiedye]

27. He May Not Even Wait Until After the Elections

Who cares about popularity when you've got


Republican Electing Machinez

[IselaB]

30. Don't you understand these guys yet?

"Kenny Boy" is a friend of the family. And with the Bush people it's all about personal loyalty - just like in the Mafia. Of course he's going to pardon Lay. He won't do it until he's heading out the door in 2009, but he's going to do it.

Will it upset some people? Sure. What does he care. This is the guy who nominated Harriet Miers, a loyal personal friend, for the Supreme Court. Even though his right-wing base had been for years drooling over the prospect of him being able to appoint a solid reactionary judge to the court. He didn't care that those people believed he owed them a certain kind of nomination. He wanted to reward loyalty.

I remember reading a Time magazine article about how Ken Lay was orchestrating the new Administration's energy policies in early 2001 - angering people who had to deal with him even though he had no official role. Once the Enron thing broke, suddenly nobody in the Administration knew who Ken Lay was. But he is a dear old friend. There's no way Bush is not going to pardon him. The whole point of power for someone like Bush is to be able to do just such a thing.

[LaPera]

31. Not a chance. Bush has been trying to distance himself from Kenny Boy from

day one!

[opihimoimoi]

33. Bush would drive the wooden stake through the Republican Partys Heart

if he even considers a pardon for these two....they are going to be the sac lambs hung out to prison time...

[MoonRiver]

34. He'll do it when he leaves office.

2006 and 2008 will be over so he really will have nothing to lose (the only down side now is possible impeachment). He and Kennyboy are partners in crime. He HAS to pardon him.