I hope it's true that Bill has a girlfriend and that it spoils Hillary's

[BurtWorm]

chances. Or that it toughens Hillary up to actually stand for something and make her worth supporting. But as the latter possibility is not at all likely to happen, then I hope it takes her out of the running.

(I'm not wishing ill for Hillary, I'm wishing well for Democrats and progressives. We deserve better than what Hillary has become.)

:evilfrown:

[Virginia Dare]

1. Sorry, I won't go there with you....n/t

[MADem]

6. Me either. n/t

[MrModerate]

2. Haven't we learned the lesson yet . . .

That adults' consensual, private sex lives are none of our frackin' business, and especially meaningless when it comes to politics?

As in "the public interest is not necessarily defined by what the public finds interesting."

[bryant69]

3. Whether we have or haven't, the American People definately haven't

Which is kind of sad - but if you oppose Hillary becoming our candidate in 2008 - well even then this is an unsavory way to go about it, I suppose.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[BurtWorm]

4. I agree it's none of our business.

But if it derails the Hillary is inevitable train, I won't care.

[MrModerate]

12. And how, precisely, does that make us . . .

better than wingnut slimeoids? The politics of personal destruction just further damages the social fabric that holds us together, and which has been stretched to the breaking point by 6 years of vicious 'Lican hydrophobia.

Look, Hillary is far from my favorite democrat jockeying for position in 2008. But in my opinion, even against the one highly electable likely 'Lican candidate (i.e., McCain), she can win. I want to win in 2008, and I want the winner to be able to make headway against what will certainly be a recalictrant and unruly Congress (regardless of which party is in the majority). I also think a number of other dems could win AND govern.

I think it's the height of foolishness for progressives to try to destroy any of the leading dems at this point, and that includes Hillary.

[BurtWorm]

17. I'll leave it up to freepazoids and media whores to do their work.

I'm just not going to give a shit this time.

sparosnare said it best:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1282783&mesg_id=1282870

[MrModerate]

22. OK, do what you gotta do . . .

For me the difference between the Bushes and the Clintons is so far beyond "tired" that the comparison just can't be made.

Bush 1 was a middling-poor president, but no monster; his son is a liar, a thief, a war criminal, and a traitor. Clinton 1 was a middling-good president who could have been near-great if he hadn't lied about a personal matter at exactly the wrong moment, while Clinton 2 could be a middling-good president who not only brings a policy wonkishness I've sorely missed over the last 6 years, offers a "first gentlemen" of mind-blowing capability and influence, and represents a massive stride forward in gender relations. Have you noticed that no one (no one with opposable thumbs, anyway) even comments on the fact that she'd be the first woman president if she were to win?

[BurtWorm]

31. Enough with the middling good, middling, middling bad, awful

Why can't we have truly great any more?

[MrModerate]

42. Name me some . . . I'll support 'em n/t

[BurtWorm]

44. Al Gore stands out.

:thumbsup:

[MrModerate]

50. Touché . . . I'd support him wholeheartedly

In 2000, I thought he'd make a pretty good president -- not as brilliant a speaker as Clinton, but just as much a policy-oriented thinker, and a bit more plugged into the DC establishment in a way that would make working with recalcitrant congresspeople a bit smoother.

And he's grown a lot over 6 years. I've love to see him inching toward running.

[BurtWorm]

51. I thought in 2000 that Al Gore was a bit of a visionary.

Based on my reading of a Nicolas Lehmann profile of him in the New Yorker. I got an image of someone who thinks hard about what's coming down the road, and how to meet it so it causes the most good and the least harm.

He's really only done more and more to convince me I was right. I don't mean to say he's on the level of a Darwin or Einstein, of course. But in the field of politics, there are very few who can see beyond their noses.

I think Bill Clinton leaned a bit toward the visionary, but he was too willing to sell his soul to the highest corporate bidder and not courageous enough to do the right thing for the greatest good (though he did try in his way). Gore, I think, actually does have a big picture vision.

[theHandpuppet]

27. Agreed!

I don't wish to see HC as our candidate, but hoping the Clinton's private life somehow spoils her chances is wayyyyyy beneath us! It would make us look like a pack of hypocrites. Their private life is just that -- PRIVATE.

[BurtWorm]

34. Yes, there life should be private.

I just won't shed any tears if people poking into it saves the Dems and the country from another mediocre candidate.

[ladjf]

5. I don't think Bill has "girlfriends". As far as we know he only has

extramarital sex.

[Mandate My Ass]

8. excellent point

Even Monica admitted that for the first three or four trysts he was still referring to her as "hey you."

[Avalux]

7. Here's how I feel, whether Bill has a girlfriend or not.

I am tired of the Clintons, just as I am tired of the Bushes. Don't get me wrong - I think Bill was an excellent president and often wish he could be again. But we can't go back and if Hillary runs, all it will do is rehash Bill's presidency and the hatred Republicans have for him and I so do NOT want to go there again. I know he won't actively campaign for her, but it won't matter.

I want a candidate who can really work for this party; someone new - and that includes Gore - who isn't the same man he was in 2000. I don't wish ill of Hillary either, but it pains me to think of her running and winning the Democratic nomination.

[BurtWorm]

9. Much better said than I said.

That's where I'm coming from. No more Clintons. No more Bushes. I've got 1990s fatigue.

[wicket]

10. No more dynasties

n/t

[Scoody Boo]

43. I agree...

Between the Clintons and Bushes only two families will have had the reigns of our Government for 20 years. If Hillary got elected to two terms that would mean that for almost 30 years two families ran our country. I really do not see that as a good thing.

[Avalux]

16. I knew what you were trying to say

1990's fatigue - that's exactly correct. :thumbsup:

[SeattleGirl]

15. What you said sparosnare

I don't care about what is or isn't happening between Bill and Hil. It's their business, not mine. I love Bill, and think he was a great President, and I really have nothing against Hil at all. I would just like some fresh blood in the WH, and have a break from Bushes and Clintons. Now, I DO care that whichever Dem candidate gets the nomination be a GOOD candidate, but please, no more B's and C's for now.

[Virginia Dare]

23. But that's different than saying that you hope..

the woman's private life will be open to embarrassing scrutiny. That the agonizing details of her husband's involvement with another woman will be discussed and analyzed to nauseating detail. Regardless of what you think of her, does she deserve that sort of indignity?

[Avalux]

30. I don't think the OPer wishes that on her either

No, Hillary doesn't deserve that sort of indignity. But if she is our candidate and runs for President, that sort of indignity will be like a speeding train and we won't be able to stop it. The media and the Republican party will turn her campaign into a free-for-all. The Democratic Party needs to move forward, not rehash the past. The same sentiment is in the OPer's post; he probably could have said it better.

[BurtWorm]

33. Again, well said, sparosnare.

Why couldn't you have written the OP? ;)

[Avalux]

40. lol, thanks.

I think a lot of people feel the same way we do. I just hope Hillary's ego allows her to not run. :hi:

[BurtWorm]

36. I don't wish her that ill. I said it wrong.

I do wish a vastly superior candidate for the Dems and the country.

[Virginia Dare]

48. Okay, sorry for the rebuke then...

but you may want to rethink your header.

:kick: :hi:

[tatertop]

11. That would be fine with me

[No New War]

13. Why can't we elect on principles, why does it have to be swiftboating? nt

[BurtWorm]

18. When Hillary has principles, even I will vote for her.

Until then, I'm voting for Tasini for the Senate and I hope Al Gore for the WH. (Feingold would be good too.)

[Virginia Dare]

25. That's your prerogative...

I just can't hop on the "I hope she gets trashed by a scandal" bandwagon.

[Virginia Dare]

26. Thank you No New War.....n/t

[lies and propaganda]

14. yeah, when i dislike a woman I always wish

a cheating prick husband on her.

This is the most asinine post, and pretty rude imo.

[BurtWorm]

19. I don't dislike Hillary as a woman or a person.

I don't want her to be the next Democratic nominee for Senate.

PS: "Senate" was a Freudian slip. I meant WH.

[etherealtruth]

20. Why are people so fixated on Bill Clinton's sex life

If I was his wife I'd be concerned (actually quite pissed and wouldn't still be his wife)but, I AM NOT his wife so I'm not all that interested.

[Avalux]

21. Whether we like it or not, the Republicans and the media are.

And that's the problem - if Hillary is our candidate, her campaign will be a giant fiasco. Do you really think they'll leave her or Bill alone? I DO NOT want to relive the Monica days, or hear reports of Bill sightings with other women. :eyes:

[emulatorloo]

24. PLEASE - Stop this BS RIGHT NOW and go read Peter Daou on Tabloid Tactics

DU Thread here w link to Daou's Post on Huffpo:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2646492


<snip>

Peter Daou
05.25.2006
Tabloid Tactics: It's Open Season on Gore, Clinton, Kerry...

Folks, it's open season on Democrats. Rightwing extremists and various media cohorts are ratcheting up their anti-Dem offensive. Not content with revisiting the Clinton bedroom, rightwingers are going after their favorite targets: Al Gore and John Kerry. Media Matters tracks the anti-Gore assault. The Daily Howler adds perspective: "Al Gore was right about global warming--way back in the 1980s.

Snip…

A new journalistic low (if that's possible) was reached with Patrick Healy's sneak peek into the Clinton bedroom, a crass attempt at tabloid journalism. Healy, for those who don't recall, was the one of the chief traffickers of anti-Kerry narratives.

Snip…

Mr. Broder, here's an easy question: who determines what is and isn't a hot topic? When cable news nets spend countless hours discussing a missing girl in Aruba, is it a hot topic because the viewers want it or because it's been shoved down their gullets? When Swift Boat liars are given an unlimited forum to smear a decorated vet, was it a hot topic to begin with or does it become one after the fact? And when Patrick Healy decides to dissect the Clinton marriage, was it a hot topic before he wrote it or is it a hot topic now that people like you amplify his filth?

"The very fact that the Times had sent a reporter out to interview 50 people about the state of the Clintons' marriage" says one thing alone: damn the polls and damn the public, the media want to suck up to Bush and stomp on the Dems, to sanctify McCain and slander Hillary, to re-Gore Al and to celebrate Rudy, to mock Kerry and to laud Bill Frist.

Mr. Broder, the "elephant in the room" you refer to at the conclusion of your piece has nothing to do with the Clintons. It's this: that you and your ilk are prisoners of your own storylines, hustling your wares to a public that has moved past you.

<snip>

[BurtWorm]

32. I'd have more sympathy for Hillary if she wasn't such a phony politico.

I know people who know her and say she's actually very funny and warm and down to earth. But her political persona is anything but. She's afraid to say anything that appears to be a stand on anything more controversial than how competent Bush is. Enough with that sticking to the middle of the road!

[LSK]

28. no, i do not like that, lets have a candidate loose on merits

Not on sex lives that are nobodies business. I am not a Hillary supporter by any means but the whole Monica thing (Republican hypocrisy on family values) just makes my blood boil.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. LOL.

He can do better.

[quickesst]

41. How about...

If Clinton wins the primary? Will you A.Not vote
B.Vote third party(a vote for bfee
C.Vote Republican
D.Vote for the Democratic
candidate.
Those seem to be the choices, and to my way of thinking, is also the reasons why the Hillary debate is a waste of time. I cannot name one single Republican that I would vote for over any of the possible Democratic candidates. One reason Repugs win and Dems lose. Unity, evil unity, but unity nonetheless. Thanks.
quickesst

[rniel]

35. agreed

n/m

[progressivebydesign]

37. Man, that is extremely mean and cold-hearted.

I honestly don't understand why people are heaping on Hillary.. as IF she was the only person that voted yes on the Iraq war resolution (which didn't actually give Bush the right to go to war, but hey.. why deal with details?). I honestly think that many of the people who are stalking her and heckling her publicly are not Democrats at all.. but Rovian plants, and third party members. Because the blame for the Iraq war should fall squarely on the shoulders of those directly responsible, and it wasn't her. I'm not saying I'd vote for her in the primary, I doubt I would, but she does not deserve this crap constantly on DU. Why not start calling her "a pig in a pantsuit" like our friends in freeperland call her constantly, we're getting damn close to it around here. It's disgusting.

[BurtWorm]

46. No more mealy-mouthing about IWR.

It did give away to Bush the power (reserved Constitutionally to Congress) to do whatever he wanted in Iraq. No more spinning!

If she would acknowledge that mistake, my estimation of her would go way, way up. If she would actually take a clearm unambiguious position against imperialist adventures like Iraq and Iran, my estimation of her would skyrocket.

[Blue_In_AK]

38. Hear, hear!!

Whatever it takes.

[Snivi Yllom]

39. huh?

I don't wish that on anyone.

[dogday]

45. A snappy title and a little smear here

and there. That's what makes the world go round :sarcasm:

[Alamom]

47. Open season on Democrats ! is right. No matter who gets the

Dem. nomination..they will be fighting for their reputation all the way and better be squeaky clean.

And that still won't good be enough.


They could have never done anything and the other side will make people believe they have.


With the Clinton's, they've already been scoured with Ajax and nothing was found...other than Bill played around ...it's old news.

If you don't like them, fine.....using "they have too much baggage" don't cut it.


Most everyone has baggage and it will be found out or made up where none exists.


If anyone finds a perfect man or woman, start casting the stones at the un-perfect.




edit;typo

[BurtWorm]

49. I don't care about their private life.

But this time around, I don't care if wingers and the media care about their private life. Just as long as it helps weed out bad candidates--bad not because of the private lives of their husbands (or selves), but because they're too afraid to say what they mean and mean what they say.