Top general urges restraint by Marines in Iraq

[NNN0LHI]

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-05-25T165208Z_01_N25438006_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ-USA-MARINES.xml&archived=False

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The top Marine Corps general flew to Iraq on Thursday to tell his troops they must kill "only when justified," as the U.S. military investigated whether Marines killed civilians in two incidents.

The trip by Gen. Michael Hagee, the Marine Corps commandant, to meet with Marines at bases in Iraq showed his personal concern over recent allegations about the actions of Marines in combat, the Marines said in a statement.

Military officials were to brief members of Congress on Thursday about a criminal probe into a November incident in which Marines are suspected of killing numerous civilians in Haditha, Iraq last November.

The military has said 15 civilians were killed, while a senior Republican lawmaker put the number at about 24.

In addition, the Marines announced on Wednesday a separate criminal investigation into the role of "several" troops in the death of an Iraqi civilian on April 26 in the area of Hamandiyah, west of Baghdad.

[BOSSHOG]

1. I'm having a hard time with this visit

Most of the Marines the General is referring to are not too long out of Bootcamp where they are instilled with the need for violence and mayhem and blind loyalty to orders. (I have no argument with that philosophy and consider a necessary evil when used appropriatly by civilian leadership) but these kids are being taught to be aggressive, then a four star comes to town and tells them to ratchet it down. Our kids are having a tough enough time in the hell hole bush has put them in without getting conflicting signals from the chain of command.

[MercutioATC]

2. Not to mention, thay've been instilled with an "us vs. them" mentality.

Pump up a bunch of young, inadequately-trained people by telling them that the "bad guys" are evil and are a danger to the world. Then drop them into a desert a few thousand miles from home where they see much more experienced soldiers dying an a daily basis. Add lousy planning and you have a perfect recipe for this sort of disaster.

Yes, there are bad soldiers. There are bad employees in every field. I believe the problem here, however, is less one of "bad people" than poor training and absymally poor planning.

[Recursion]

3. Yeah, but you've got to remember the "Marine" mindset

And it's not "Kill them all and let God sort them out". The Marine Corps recruits the highest ASVAB-scoring recruits for a reason. The Army and Navy and Air Force are pointed in a direction and intended to destroy everything in front of them. That's they're job. They're for "big" wars; traditional wars against a standing army.

The Marines, on the other hand, have tended to be used for "smaller" or less traditional wars where you can't just destroy everything you see. That's why landing an Army unit somewhere is an act of war; landing a Marine unit somewhere is "restoring order" (but see "War is a Racket" for the other side of that).

And remember our training was designed for that. Hit a stationary man-sized target at 500 yards. Distinguish and hit 1 among 4 moving man-sized targets at 250 yards. Move in small units, silently, around strong points to hit the objective.

Finally, the pride of the Corps has always been battlefield discipline. During stress judgment tests at SOI, I at least was reminded several times "My Lai was those nasty army fucks. They lost their heads. You lose your head like you just did and you turn a routine patrol into nuclear war! You just ended the world, dipshit!" If Marines are offing civilians, then discipline has broken down. If the Marine Corps' discipline has broken down, then our country's security is seriously weakened. God damn these neocon chickenhawks...

[NNN0LHI]

4. I'm afraid things have gone beyond being aggressive as taught in Bootcamp

Otherwise I don't think the general would have felt the need to say anything.

Don

[BOSSHOG]

5. Great Point

Marines a few days removed from boot camp are god awful scary human beings. I was somewhat robotic right after Navy bootcamp but that shit wore off fast when I was tossed to the lifers for grooming.