So, what do we do, if the dems DON'T filibuster???????!!!!!!!!!

[debbierlus]

I don't want to pre-judge the dems plan on Alito, but I am absolutely terrified that they are just going to roll over AGAIN and let the final nail in democracy's coffin be hammered down.

IF this happens, I don't see what point there is to supporting the democrats. They will surrendered our very LAST hope of providing a check on Bush's executive power. They will have allowed themselves to become completely irrelevant. It won't matter WHAT they do next because they neo-cons will now OWN the courts. Alito will baptize Bush as dictator. Check mate.

I have that same pit in my stomach, nauseous feeling that I had when Bush stole both elections, only this time, it is worse.

WHAT DO WE DO?

This is it. The last stand.

I am really, really, really, scared.

And, most of America seems to be clueless as to what is about to happen.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

1. well, what you can do now is call your

Senators & tell them you oppose the confirmation. I think that's what we should all do right now.

Then, we'll worry about the next step.

I for one will not abandon the Democratic Party. Not voting, or voting third party, or voting repub is not in my best interest. It is in my best interest to make sure my Senators & congresscritters know where I stand on the issue.

best.

btw, I'm speaking as myself, not a mod.

[debbierlus]

15. I already contacted EVERY single democrat

And, demanded they filibuster.

I contacted everyone through my huge compiled mailing list (collected through the Kerry campaign days) and sent links, action alerts, etc....

But, I have really had it. The dems are ALLOWING this to happen. Just like they allowed Bush to steal two elections. ALL I ask is that they fight as hard as they possibly can...

I don't know what the point of supporting dems will be, if they refuse to fight. I don't understand the point of donating my money and time to campaign for them, when they allow the neocons to steal the elections....What is the use of donating hundreds of hours (which I did for Kerry) when they roll over in the face of election theft?

I have hung in and hung in and hung in.....

I would follow the dems to the end of the earth if they fight. If they don't???? What is the use of following them?

Does anybody really believe that the dems will take back the House or Senate? The Republicans will steal it? What is to stop them? The dems? They could face impeachement and jail time, if the dems take back Congress. Why on earth would anyone believe that they wouldn't do ANYTHING to stop this?

I am in for a fight. But, if the dems run and lay down their weapons, what are we to do????

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

24. When you write

"the dems are allowing this to happen" I think you forget that we're the minority party. Political reality check. We control nothing. There is no Democrat in charge of one committee. No Democrat can bring to a vote one bill. And when people talk about filibustering, do they have any idea how hard it is?

Again, speaking as myself, not a mod.

[atreides1]

WHAT DO WE DO?????

We do the same thing that the founders did, after trying to use diplomacy to rectify the problms they were having with the previous king!!!!

[Kazak]

40. No more continents to steal!

:shrug:

[Extend a Hand]

2. I'm afraid too

and I just don't know.

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[LeftNYC]

3. I wont donate to Democrats...

I will consider a third party...

[bowens43]

11. That worked out well for us in 2000......

I can't believe that anyone would stop supporting Democrats because they refuse to use a tactic that can't win.

We lost this battle when we lost control of the Senate.

[LeftNYC]

13. what else are we going to lose? nt

[bowens43]

20. I don't know.

But voting third party in 2006 certainly won't help matters. Regaining control of congress will.

[LeftNYC]

27. I may still vote Dem, but they will not get tmoney...

unless the leadership grows a spine...

[rucky]

4. Just because you re-register as an independent doesn't mean...

you can't vote for Democrats. But the drop in membership will send a message that will make them shit bricks. They've been so preoccupied with the "swing voters" in the center. Let's give them something else to guess about.

just a thought.

[MuseRider]

45. That was exactly what I was thinking.

I will continue to support those I see standing up but as a party? Nope, I am not doing that now. Money goes to those who are earning it by supporting what have always been democratic policies. The rest don't want my thoughts or ideas they just want my money and my work and they are not going to get it. I may switch, as hard as that is going to be for this long time Democrat, I plan on making some kind of statement other than to laugh when the DLC calls.

[LoKnLoD]

5. I don't think they will filibuster

they are putting all their eggs in the 2006 election, hoping to take control of one of the houses. IMHO

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. If they want to take back Congress, may I suggest this to them?

FILIBUSTER! If they don't, their asses are finished. The evoting machines will finish them off.

[bowens43]

19. I disagree .

IMO a filibuster will hurt the Dems with those in the center and those who voted repug last time and are leaning toward voting Dem this time. Only a very few will abandon Dems for not filibustering. Besides, the filibuster won't stop the appointment. We don't have the votes to stop the appointment.

As far as voting machines are concerned, that CAN be handled at a state level. There will be NO Diebold machines used here in 2006 nor will there be machines that don't produce a paper copy of the ballot.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bowens43]

21. Don't count on it.

[LynneSin]

33. I'm hoping that's the poker game because you're probably easy to beat

And if you were a football coach you'd probably be on ESPN the night before showing every gameplan you'll be using throughout the day.

Don't you understand that democrats cannot say they are going to filibuster until the exact moment of the vote because if they do the republicans will go to the media screaming about how unfair filibusters are and pulling out the nuclear option.

But maybe you prefer a world where we give away all our strategies so we end up losing. If that's your life please stop screaming like a banshee crying wolf! Yikes, even Reid has admitted that he instructed the other democrats to not talk about the filibuster.

Remember - first rule of Fight Club: We do not talk about fight club. Second Rule: We do not talk about FIght Club.

Guess what - that's Harry Reid's rule too!

[bowens43]

44. What you don't seem to understand is that

a filibuster will NOT stop the appointment. A filibuster is an externally dangerous political move, especially when it can't succeed. The Republicans are up to their necks in scandal right now. Rove may yet be indicted. The war in Iraq is going badly. Iran is thumbing it's nuclear nose at Bush. Bushes numbers are again sinking. Five million more Americans are living in poverty. The air and water are getting dirtier. The world hates us. Because of these things (and many more) , the republicans are sinking fast. They will NOT accept a loss on this issue. Thier base wants this guy and they will not allow the appearence of weakness. If there is a filibuster, they WILL change the rules do disallow the filibuster of judicial nominees. This will energize their base and be spun as a HUGE loss for the Democrats.

A filibuster would certainly make me feel good!! I hate republicans and conservatives with an all consuming passion but a filibuster won't stop Alito from being appointed and I don't see how it will help us in 2006.

[MallRat]

56. The nuclear option would epitomize EVERYTHING wrong with the GOP.

At a time when the national debate is focused on the consolidation of power in the executive branch, aided and abetted by a corrupt rubber-stamping legislature, the nuclear option is the best thing the Democrats could possibly hope for. It plays right into the "abuse of power" argument.

With one selfish act, the Senate GOP could hand the Democrats the single crystallizing moment to ride through 2006 and even 2008. Put it this way:

"When the Republicans weren't busy breaking the rules, they changed them to fit their petty political ends. We need Democrats as a check and balance against this abuse of power."

Go ahead, Frist. Go nuclear. Make my day.

-MR

[MuseRider]

46. I am clinging

to that hope Lynne. I can't second guess them and they have not really shown us too much to really judge so I am hoping you are correct.

[stray cat]

7. Vote republican

seriously its no wonder republicans win since there base is more flexible in their support.

[OneAngryDemocrat]

8. Argh!!!

As awful as the thought is, I am certain that the DNC agenda, and the GOP's, are SOOOOOOO similar, that the two parties have to smear each other on BS issues, while ignoring REAL topics for debate.

If the DNC does NOT filibuster Alito, I am certain that the DNC is over with, and it's time to go full over to the Progressives.

That, friends, means it's gut-check time.

I can't choose the lesser of two evils, anymore.

I really can't.

But...

Let's see what happens, first.

Visit my anti-war website, www.shockedandawful.com

[Sammy Pepys]

10. If you donate....

Significantly trim your donation OR don't donate at all. Send a letter saying why. In other words, hit 'em in the pocketbook.

[LeftNYC]

14. agreed...

I'm fed up.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Tantrums...Millions and Millions Of Tantrums

We can get all of us on the front steps of every Federal Court house and start crying and holding our breath.

Truth is this is what happens when you're the minority. Sadly the Democratic party allowed itself to get into this situation and now the options of stopping the ramrodding of this nominee and a lot of other wingnuttery extremely difficult.

Now those who scream doomsday and threaten to "leave the party" if ScAlito is confirmed seem to be cutting their own throats. Where to go? A third party? Go from 200 some Congresscritters to none? 30 some governors to zero? And which third party?

This is a tough time, but it's also one that's defining this country. The outrage towards not only this regime but the corrupt Repugnican party is growing. A lot of people who sat on the fence or ignored a lot of what was going on aren't any longer. Independents who gave fukstick booosh and the Repugnicans the benefit of the doubt in recent elections...that swung the balance...are now shifting in our direction. This wouldn't be a smart time to move away from them moving towards us, would it?

This episode, should ScAlito be rammed down our throats, should be a rallying cry to unite Democrats and make them work harder this year to outst Repugnicans and start the long comeback to majority status.

[skipos]

16. We bust ass in 2006 and 2008, that's what we do.

Do you think we would be going through this right now if dems controlled 55% of the senate, 55% of congress, 55% of the governorships, the presidency, etc?

We work towards getting majorities back. Even if there are a few conservative democrats in the senate and congress, with solid majorities, we wouldn't have to deal with nominees like Alito. If we get a dem president in 08, even if it is someone who is too conservative for my tastes (Hillary), she wouldn't be nominating people like Alito.

Nominees like Alito are the reason I will never vote for a third party.

[Webster Green]

25. Our elections are rigged, and will be for the rest of our lives....

Sorry.:-(

[skipos]

59. VA, CA and NJ 05. It may be an uphill battle, but we can win elections.nt

[tularetom]

17. Find primary opponents for the cowards and support them

Lieberman, he needs to go. Biden, Leahy, Feinstein, same thing. You don't have to vote repub but its time to get rid of these people who have become enablers for those who would wipe their ass with the constitution.

[Swede]

18. Back-allley abortions?

More state sanction executions,more power int he President's mitts.

[NYCGirl]

22. Look at all the newbies in this post saying "change parties, don't

donate to the DNC." Lots of similar types have been all over here for the past few days. Must be some kind of epidemic.

[AZBlue]

50. An epidemic more frightening than Bird Flu! (nt)

[babylonsister]

23. IF this happens, I don't see what point there is to

supporting the democrats."
Huh? Does that mean you'll throw your hat in w/the repugs?
You need to make a decision and then fight for it, via
LTTE's, e-mails, phone calls, etc. It's not going to be decided
solely by Dems; they need to hear from their constituents.
Stop your hand-wringing, get busy, and don't give up!

[debbierlus]

30. I am not hand-wringing, I am ANGRY

Part of the reason the dems act this way is BECAUSE of us. What are the consequences when they ignore their most solid base? NOTHING. They know we will vote for them because we have no where else to go. Obviously, we will never vote Republican. And, there aren't enough of us committed to truly making a reform party - so this is what we get.

By talking about not supporting the dems, I am not saying give up. But, I am saying that the definition of idiocy is doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again, getting the same results, and expecting DIFFERENT results. This is NOT working.

The Republicans have stolen our government. The dems won't even WHISPER that it has been stolen. They want to appear 'fair' to appease people who decide politics by 30 second t.v. ads.

The democratic party is BROKEN.

The only solution I see is for progressives to take over the democratic party like the right wing did to the Republican party. But, in this case, it would actually be GOOD for the country.

[babylonsister]

49. We're all angry, but talking in generalities won't get any of us

anywhere. We need to take action and keep fighting for what we believe. Yes, the repugs have stolen our government and it's not being discussed. Yes, it'd be nice if progressives were to take over the Dem party, but that's not realistic at this point.
We have to deal with what we have, not what we'd like to have. For my own sanity, I have to try and be optimistic, and think things will turn around while doing every thing I can to help that process along.

[RubyDuby in GA]

57. Maybe you should listen to Jimmy Carter, still a proud Democrat

who will tell any interviewer he can that he firmly believes the 2000, 2002 state elections (especially Georgia's) and the 2004 elections were stolen.

I highly recommend his latest book: Our Endangered Values. It gets :thumbsup: :thumbsup: from me.

[Mutley]

26. We start work to support and bring into the mainstream another

left leaning party such as the Greens. There are several to choose from. And if large amounts of Dems abandon the party and switch to one of the smaller ones, we could make some progress.

[NYCGirl]

28. And that would insure the GOP keeps the power for another decade,

minimum.

[Mutley]

34. That might happen anyway.

Diebold, remember? Why should I continue supporting a party that does not represent my interests? I'm hoping beyond all hope that the Dems will filibuster, but if they don't... I just don't know anymore. This country needs more mainstream parties anyway. Two just don't really cut it.

[NYCGirl]

37. Sure it might, but your idea would GUARANTEE it.

I'm sticking with the Democrats and working to change our party.

[AZBlue]

51. Me too. I don't give up that easily.

If the right thing to do was to give up when the going got rough and it looked like it was going to be a losing battle, we'd be the United States of England.

[Mutley]

55. Check out post #53.

I like that plan better than mine.

[LeftNYC]

29. I am seriously thinking of volunteering and donating for the Greens...

I am really considering this...

[Mutley]

35. I'd consider it as well.

I'd like to see what happens with the Alito confirmation first. Call me crazy, but I still have a little bit of hope for the Dems. It won't last forever, though.

[cascadiance]

53. I think we start another ORGANIZATION, not necessarily a party

Perhaps get together Moveon.org, Democracy For America and other more progressive groups together and form a large and unified progressive organization much like the DLC is an organization that has steered the DNC in the past, we want something that's big and powerful to wield some clout with the Democratic Party, and look to shut down the DLC influence. All members of this newer organization would donate ALL of their money to this organization instead of the DNC, until the DNC finds a way to "evict" the DLC from its influence over the party. Threaten the DNC that if they don't push out the DLC, that this organization might think of shifting over to helping the Green Party instead to become a major party.

Then, I won't feel the least bit shy about putting a lot of contribution money in this newer ogranization, if I was to believe they were more spiritually pure and untainted with corporate corruption money.

For the short term, organize a national day where we all march on the Registrar of voters in each of our communities, and burn our Democratic Membership cards while we go in and register as independents.

By working with this organization, we can shift gears at some point if we think that the Dems have gone too far in their sell out and have become beyond repair. By having the organization in place that could just shift over to the Greens or another party we deem the new champion for our interests, we don't have to slave for the Dems and at the last minute find out yet again that they've sold us out. We'll sell them out if they play this sort of game by shifting this organization to help a new or different party instead.

[Mutley]

54. That's an excellent plan.

I like it. :thumbsup:

[mmonk]

31. I don't know.

I have to make a decision on what's best for my family. Sacrifice them and fight on or move.

[Plausible]

32. Won't much matter what we do

but I will donate and volunteer for NARAL before any political party.

In some ways this all comes down to the fault of the American people, who voted for Rethugs and stand by while even our elections are stolen, who would rather lobbyists fund elections than have publicly funded elections.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Reminds me of the line in The Usual Suspects

The cop asks Kevin Pollack's character: "What are you gonna do if you go back to prison?"

He responds: "I dunno. Fuck your father in the shower, then head to mess for a bite to eat?"

That's my response to "What do we do if the Dems don't filibuster?"

[Strawman]

38. Keep waiting for them to jump aboard the clue train

The netroots aren't the ones who need to adapt. They do. Keep doing what you're doing.

You'll have a choice in 2008 to pick the leader of the party. Pick a leader who gets it.

[oneoftheboys]

39. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself"

As far as what to do goes. Work to elect more Democrats.

[mmonk]

43. But now the republicans will have their counterweight

to a democratic congress.

[debbierlus]

48. Kind of tough with rigged voting machines

I just hope they will do the right thing.

Keeping my fingers tightly/blood constrictingly/ CROSSED!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

At this point...

...I wonder if they have the votes to prevent ending of a fillibuster. My hunch is that not even they know.

[Walt Starr]

41. Each will have to decide their own course

I already know how I will react. Everybody else will have to decide their own course.

[Plausible]

42. Dems need to do this to also show they have the fire

in their bellies.
Even Democrats are worried about them rolling over and playing dead.
What does that say?

This is a judge they must do everything in their power to prevent being confirmed.
People want leaders willing to fight for what they feel is right.

[DanCa]

47. you vote the traitor dems out and rebuild the party to make it stronger.

[yourout]

52. As Jim Carrey said in Liar Liar...

"I am going to bend over and take it up the tail pipe."

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

58. We get murdered before we leave the building...

and I imagine we get fed to the pigs.