I hope some of you people never play poker or if you do I'm there!!

[LynneSin]

Seriously

Hey, everyone - I have these two Queens, what should I do next?

Seriously, I'll make a shitload of money off of some of you because you seem to know nothing about strategy. You'll tell everyone what's in your hand instead of keeping your mouth shut and keeping your opponent guessing on how you are playing.

Reid has even come out and said that democrats are not to discuss how they are voting. This is call strategy. If they don't talk about it then republicans can't fight back with their crazy "Nuclear Option"

But I guess this is something new and strange for some of you. I can also see your strategy if you were a football coach. You'd be on the news before the game saying "Ok, for our first offensive play we plan to hand off to our running back and going straight up the middle..."

[stray cat]

1. Good point

[kentuck]

2. Why should we assume the Dems have a strategy??

What have they done in the past to give you such confidence??

[LynneSin]

4. Guess you slept through 2005

Reid was masterful keeping republicans and their agenda at bay

[Rose Siding]

14. I'm not *drowning* in confidence, but what have they done? This:

KR: Democratic discipline delaying top Bush administration priorities

WASHINGTON - With time running out for Congress this year, Democrats are displaying rare unity and influencing the legislative agenda in ways that were unimaginable during President Bush's first term.

Their cohesion, together with rebellion from some moderate and maverick Republicans, was evident Wednesday as lawmakers continued to frustrate Bush's agenda on anti-terrorism legislation, foreign-detainee policies and oil drilling in Alaska's wildlife refuge.
....
One bright note for Republicans was House passage Wednesday of the Patriot Act, extending the four-year-old anti-terrorism law that expanded certain law enforcement powers. But despite a 251-174 victory in the House, the bill quickly ran into a buzz saw in the Senate, where a coalition of Democrats and Republicans who are worried about an erosion of civil liberties was preparing to block its passage.
....
"It's the first time I can recall in years that they've been so united," Rep. Michael Castle, R-Del., a leader of moderate House Republicans, said of the Democrats.

He credited their unity with giving leverage to moderate Republicans, who often were ignored throughout Bush's first term, when Republican leaders and the White House could count on conservative and moderate Democrats to cross party lines.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/13408312.htm

Democrats post wins as Congress nears close

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Republican-led U.S. Congress was close to wrapping up its work for the year on Thursday in the wake of an unexpected string of Democratic successes on matters from energy to spending to security.

Senate Democrats thwarted a permanent renewal of the anti-terrorism USA Patriot Act, setting up instead a temporary six-month extension of expiring provisions so changes can be considered to better safeguard civil liberties. It was a defeat for President George W. Bush, who had argued the law was mandatory for safeguarding U.S. citizens.

Senators also stripped from a $453 billion defense spending bill a provision that would have opened the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling, another issue the administration had championed as necessary to ease U.S. dependency on foreign oil.

[Walt Starr]

3. Is this anything like John Kerry's supersecret strategy to blow out

the election and Swift Boaters in the last week of the election?

[LynneSin]

5. We're talking Harry Reid here who has proven he's good at this

:D

[Walt Starr]

7. You go ahead and believe that

if it makes you feel better.

[sendero]

22. Come on Walt..

.... the filibuster may or may not happen, but don't give up YET.

Let's wait and see how this goes down. Reid isn't perfect, but he's one of the better ones and I do not rule out the possiblity that something will happen.

If it doesn't happen, well I'll join you in a major league bitch-fest :)

[Walt Starr]

23. I guarantee you, if it doesn't happen, you won't be joining me

I won't be here any more if there is no filibuster as I could never again support any Democrat and that violates DU rules.

[kentuck]

25. To be fair, Walt....

I don't think we can blame the entire Party if 4 or 5 Dems prevent the possibility of a filibuster. They cannot filibuster if they don't have 41 votes.

[Walt Starr]

26. Sure I can

I'll be fed up. Time to move on, and all that.

[Clark2008]

6. It might be because so many Hill Dems have been folding on

nearly every issue that Bush pounds them with that some people on this board don't have the confidence that the Dems will filibuster.

I know I'm not confident they will - poker game or not.

If they do, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[ProfessorPlum]

8. Hey Lynn

I admire your optimism and your sense of strategy, and I think you are right - Reid doesn't want to telegraph what is going to happen and that is sensible.

But whether the Democrats filibuster is not up to Reid.

It's up to corporate whores like Biden and Feinstein.

It's up to party turncoats like Nelson and Lieberman.

It's up to weak-kneed moderates like Carper.

It's up to 44 other individuals (plus or minus maybe a couple of Republicans) all of whom, collectively, have not seen fit to stand up for anything in the last, oh about 10 years or so.

I don't discredit Reid's toughness or his strategy in any way - but he's not working with the best team, here.

[LynneSin]

37. Come on, you and I both know Biden is a guarentee

He's been a part of every other filibuster that has ever happened. He plays it as even-keeled unbiased on judiciary but he'll be a part of it. I can't even believe you'd questions this even though historical records show that Biden is tough on these types of judges. Hell he's got a better record in Judiciary than Russ Feingold (Who did vote yes for Roberts and Ashcroft).

But yea, Carper is a worry but he wasn't part of that 'Gang of 14' plus he didn't support Estrada because of Estrada's 'vagueness' on how the questions were answered. He's actually supported all of the filibusters! But I do worry more about him!

[bpilgrim]

9. i've heard this for 5 years now

and feel like a huge sucker but i hope you are right, on the other hand i also think that they calculate - being the politico geniuses they are - that a fight on this is un-winnable and therefore unwise.


more...
http://GlobalFreePress.com

peace

[MrBenchley]

10. Some people here seem to have no idea

how the real world works....

Good thread.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

24. some of us here have been keeping notes for 5 years, too

and we have seen no evidence of the dems putting up a REAL fight on hardly anything, cept their IMAGE, of course...


more...
http://GlobalFreePress.com

peace

[MrBenchley]

28. Then don't let the door hit you in the ass....

I myself am proud to be a Democrat...

[bpilgrim]

31. love it or leave it, eh?

:eyes:

peace

[MrBenchley]

53. Hey, if you want to stomp off in a pique

Feel free. It's not like the lunatic left has brought a lot to the party anyway.

[400Years]

36. There will be no filibuster or any other effective opposition

but hey let's all vote DLC! Yaaayyyyy!

[MrBenchley]

52. And I'll still be a Democrat

But don't let the door hit you in the ass if you want to leave.

[lebkuchen]

29. Is that a photo shop of Bush or the real thing?

It's hard to tell the difference anymore, the Chimp has become such a caricature of himself.

[bpilgrim]

32. here's another one

more...
http://GlobalFreePress.com

this and the other are real, bush can not hide his ignorance

peace

[lebkuchen]

35. What is it about his head that doesn't mesh w/the body?

Maybe that's how "pinhead" originated.

Anyway, I've already posted, long ago, about Clinton's trying to make peace with these infected anal cysts. It's not healthy.

[bananas]

11. Strip poker with LynneSin? I'm there!

[TahitiNut]

40. Two minds with but a single thought.

:silly: :rofl:

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jarab]

15. I would rather adhere to the time-tested Lie ...

"I have two kings", when in actuality I have off-suited deuce/seven.

I agree with Reid that we should never show our hand.

...O...

[theboss]

16. Reid can't do anything without the Moderate 7

Reid is powerless here.
If Byrd, Lieberman, DiFi, etc don't want to filibuster, it's dead.

[cry baby]

17. I'm willing to give Reid the benefit of the doubt.

I like his style and after all, what is the alternative?

[Bjornsdotter]

18. I'm not sure

...what is going to happen. I know what I would like to happen, but it's often two different things.

For me, I am swinging back and forth. On one hand I hope that they find the balls to do something. On the other hand I remember The Thomas hearings and thinking that NO WAY that piece of slime would get the nod.

Imagine my surprise when not only did he get in, but one of my senators ( a democrat) actually voted for him. Yes, I was one of those angry women who called Dixon and protested at his office, glad to say he lost the seat the following year to Braun.

My head says they'll do something, my stomach and bottle of tums thinks otherwise. Either way, after it's all over, I'll be making phone calls.

Cheers!

[LynneSin]

38. You and me both

Believe me, I'm not saying this is a shoo-in, but I'm not about to cry "FIRE" in the theater when I'm not smelling any smoke.

I could very well be wrong and that :scared: me!

[jobycom]

19. It's a new strategy for playing poker

We show the other guys what we have, admit that we're bluffing, and give them all our money, but we call them a "skunk" so our poor egos will feel better.

We might not win with this strategy, but at least the other guys enjoy playing with us.

[Boojatta]

20. Isn't it illegal to gamble unless a cut goes to a Las Vegas business?

Of course, if you win "too much" in Las Vegas, then they have the right to refuse to let you back in, regardless of whether or not you actually broke any rules.

Maybe, to play poker, you should hire a lawyer, a security guard who knows how to operate a video camera and secure the recording against theft or tampering, an expert in magic (to detect sleight of hand), and an expert in the theory of probability (to detect excessively unlikely chance events and recommend appropriate investigations).

[Armstead]

21. Alito hs the votes to win -- So we should at least put up a real fight

I disagree with your contention that there is some sharp behind the scenes poker going on.

I suspect it's more like "Okay, we can't stop Alito, so how do we lose in the least destructive manner?"

My opinion is that rather than let it sail through and pass token "No" votes, the Democts SHOULD at least put upo a strong opposition and protest in every possible way.

The purpose would not be to prevent Alito's nomination, but to make clear to the American people what the stakes areally are and how the people themselves will get screwed by this. And more importantly, what they got when they voted Bush and his GOP cronies into office.

IMO peope did NOT vote for SC justices in the mold of Alito when they voted for Bush. They voted on perceived "national security" issues and were not made aware of what went along with the Bush package.

As long as the Dems remain timid and "tactical" the truth is never going to get out of the closet, and the GOP spin will continue to work its black magic.

P.S. I don't think it's a coincidence that the biggest Democratic advances were the result of boldness and honest anger, as opposed to quiet complicity -- i.e. Reid orering a secret Senate session and Murtha coming out against the war.

[LynneSin]

39. Ok, what democratic senators have said officially "I'm not filibustering"

outside of Nelson of Nebraska which we know.

I'm not talking these vague Alito-like answers that says 'I'm thinking about it' or 'I'm taking it all in and we'll determine it from there'. I want links (outside of Nelson) that says "I will not filibuster"

No one has said it, not even Feinstein. They all hem and haw about it but we don't have an official "yes" or "no" from any of them

[theboss]

41. Do you think there is any chance the Byrd, Lieberman and DiFi do it?

I don't.

I don't think any of the gang of 7 go for it.

[LynneSin]

43. Lieberman has already mentioned the filibuster

and I think Reid has told DiFi to keep shushed. With all the Abramoff Scandal which was basically lobbyiests buying votes, they probably didn't want her in the nightly news since she probably gets the most pro-choice (legal) money of any of them.

But like I said, I could be wrong and I haven't stopped fighting.

[Armstead]

49. IMO they should say "We ARE filibustering because this is too important"

The repuglicans are going to do one of two things.

If Democrats do not attempt to filabuster, the GOp is going to gloat and praise Alito, and the public will buy into his innocuous image with the prompting of the media. (See John Roberts.)

If any Democrats even hem and haw about a possible filabuster (or even no votes) the GOP will push that this is merly a "partisan witch hunt" etc.

IMO the only way to counter that lose-lose proposition is to fight, and do it now, and make it clear and endlessly repeat the many reasons that Alito is the wrong kind of justice for the Supreme Court. The longer our side waits to do that, the more entrenched Alito's image as a bland, even-handed moderate will take hold in the public mind.

[glitch]

50. Second this - excellent analysis, well said. nt

[Cooley Hurd]

27. K&R - There's a great deal of angst about whether a filibuster...

...will happen or not. I'm feeling pretty confident that OUR senators won't let us down this time!:thumbsup:

[Lerkfish]

30. we are not worthy to bask in the glow of your enlightenment

that you deign to condescend to even step down from mount olympus and lift us up by our soil-encrusted hands is like water from the gods.

We may all now happily die having glimpsed your intellectual perfection.

[unblock]

33. problem is, much of politics involves setting the stage

and the democrats aren't setting the stage for a filibuster.

i agree with you that they're not committing to anything and may yet filibuster. however, it might have been wise to prep the media a bit.

words like "alarming" would be better than "concerning" just as a small for instance.

[rucky]

34. Call the senators anyways. Threaten to leave the party anyways.

if that's their plan all along, they'll appreciate the public outcry against Alito and the support of a filibuster decision.

[Walt Starr]

47. What's probably going on is some arm twisting on the gang of 7

and most likely, it won't work because of their agreement with the GOP Gang of 7.

[stevedeshazer]

42. I'm reserving judgment until the Senate Dems meet Wednesday

I do think this is where the rubber meets the road.

Harry Reid knows what he's doing; I've really come to admire him. But Ben Nelson (who already left the reservation and has declared he'll vote for Alito) adds to the minus column where a minority of 41 votes is needed to sustain a filibuster.

Out of the 44 Senate Democrats plus St. James Jeffords (I)-VT, we can afford no more than four defectors. If any of the 55 Republicans are inclined to vote against Sammy A, I've yet to hear about it.

If Harry Reid can't hold together the Senate Democrats in a coalition to filibuster Alito, it's over.

So, who are other possible Democratic defectors? My money is on Mary Landrieu, Dianne Feinstein, Blanche Lincoln, Evan Bayh and Mark Pryor. Who knows about these?

Possible Republican defectors? Could Olympia Snowe or Linc Chafee or Susan Collins come over?

So many questions.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. Don't you know nuthin?

We're playing our role. We're helping the Dems in Congress pull off their bluff.

Someone put LynneSin on the secret DU mailing list.

:-)

[Gelliebeans]

45. Thanks for

saying so LynnSin, Until the votes take place we have no idea on what the final tally will be. We should continue to let our Senators know how we feel about it but packing it in at this point seems a little premature.

[hunter]

46. It's not poker anymore.

I've pretty much had it.

It's time for this nightmare to end.

These Republicans dish up steaming piles of shit from the Reagan era and make us eat it.

John Roberts is a hot steaming turd. Samuel Alito is a hot steaming turd. It's time we shove these steaming turds back at them who shat them.

This is not a poker game. They cheat, they lie, they steal. If we play the game fair, we lose.

It's time to open our long coats, brandish our Constitutional Rights, and throw these God Damned Criminals out of this casino and into the can.

If 2006 is the same as 2005, or 2004, or 2003... I will not tolerate that. Save me a place on the last helicopters out of here, Walt Star.

I want my freedoms back, I want my privacy back, I want my Republic back.

May you dream fitfully of peasants with pitchforks and torches, George W. Bush, you cowardly litle pickled shit worm of a man.

[dogday]

48. Absolutely, never show your hand nt

[WhereThereIsFire]

51. Believe me ... I'm verbal ... but my "strategies" ...

never appear here. Think globally, act locally! But, then don't even believe THAT ol warhorse is where we "are" in this thing. Have you considered our posts are just to "tweak" some points and not remotely part of any strategy? Other places, other blogs, other venues! Sorry, dude!:dem:

You must be thinking of old tired football coaches like bubba bowdown. I believe Reid has a bigger picture as the overall plan.

[greiner3]

54. As a point of strategy, I agree that no word is good;

But, as a matter of fact, most americans are not in tune with aloser one way or the other. I think that if we filabuster it would keep him of the court but b*** would nominate another one who is just as repugnant and it would be too late for us to do anything. IMHO

[zanne]

55. OH----It's a secret!

And I thought they'd been letting us down for five years now. Silly me. Now that you've told me, I know that they DO have a plan in the works; it's just been a SECRET for five years! Is my face red!

[Ksec]

56. Well if you know poker

then you know that some of the best are arrogant loud azzholes. And some are quiet and stone faced. Im really hoping Reid has a card up his sleeve here. Ill reserve my bet until then.