Man who bragged of murdering Iraqis debunked by Army

[BikeWriter]

(This sort of bullshit only serves to discredit real whistleblowers!)

“We would go into people’s houses and plow down entire families,” MacBeth said. “We would interrogate people. If we didn’t like the answers that they gave, then we would kill the youngest child. If they gave more answers that we didn’t like, then we’d move on to the rest of the family. They could’ve been innocent people.”

MacBeth also claimed U.S. troops would “slaughter” Iraqis in mosques.

But U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg found no evidence of a soldier named Jesse MacBeth ever serving with Army Rangers or Special Forces, said Army spokesman Paul Boyce.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=37503

[uppityperson]

1. Isn't there another big thread on him elsewhere DU?New Kudzu?

[BikeWriter]

2. Yes, with enormous headlines proclaiming the atrocities!

Someone owes our troops an apology! Yes, a few are murderers, but the vast majority are not!

[niyad]

4. how many civilians have been killed in iraq by our troops?

[BikeWriter]

5. Probably a lot, but this does not vindicate the lies about atrocities!

[uppityperson]

7. True, save the outrage for real stuff. There is enough real stuff.

[BikeWriter]

8. Exactly, and other forums are laughing at DUers believing the lies.

[struggle4progress]

17. There are many threads from last week debunking the story

The thread

The video of the Army Ranger is a fake
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1260163#1263755

landed on the greatest page almost as soon as the first thread on MacBeth was posted

[uppityperson]

18. thanks, I missed some days online. Upset his story is still going here

with people still debating. Thanks.

[BikeWriter]

22. Yes'm, I alerted on that long thread perpetuating the lies...

IMO, any further threads perpetuating them should be deleted.

[BikeWriter]

20. The most recent thread with his lies had many believers...

Which is why I posted this thread and will keep it kicked!

[struggle4progress]

36. Yawn.

[BikeWriter]

38. The lies may not mean jack shit to you, but they do to some vets.

[struggle4progress]

43. It's OLD NEWS to regular readers here, first debunked on 22 May.

The same day the original thread was posted, a debunking thread

The video of the Army Ranger is a fake.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1260163&mesg_id=1260163

made its way onto the Greatest Page. Most websites pulled the JB tape a week ago. I haven't seen much activity promoting JB since here.

While a few people may have given the JB tape undue attention in the first few hours here, the Haditha story was already developing at that time, and some people may have regarded the JB tape as evidence of more of the some.

[BikeWriter]

45. There were people eating it up as recently as yesterday. Thus...

this post.

[struggle4progress]

46. Horseshit. MacBeth lost all credibility on DU almost immediately:

three replies here; nobody was eating it up yesterday
IVAW statement about Jesse MacBeth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=273&topic_id=88577&mesg_id=88577

twenty replies here; nobody was eating it up yesterday
Statement on MacBeth Video (IVAW)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1298116&mesg_id=1298116

one hundred seventy replies here; nobody was eating it up yesterday
The video of the Army Ranger is a fake.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1260163&mesg_id=1260163

one hundred fifty-eight replies here; nobody was eating it up yesterday
Jesse Macbeth, Jessie Macbeth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1264056&mesg_id=1264056

ninety-two replies here; nobody was eating it up yesterday
Jesse MacBride is also Jesse Al-Zaid
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1270531&mesg_id=1270531

nine replies here; nobody was eating it up yesterday
So, Is the Jesse Macbeth story true or not ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1279924&mesg_id=1279924

[BikeWriter]

48. Explain to me why the lie was being supported yesterday then?

[struggle4progress]

49. I just read hundreds of posts and found no evidence of "the lie .. being

.. supported yesterday .."

I just provided you links to some but not all of those threads. I didn't link to the original thread on JB, which is now locked, but the only posts to it in the last few days are yours, and the second half of the thread is almost entirely devoting to debunking JB.

DU began to debunked JB almost immediately. It's old news.

[BikeWriter]

50. Good, then you won't mind my making certain everyone knows it!

[struggle4progress]

52. Yawn.

[niyad]

3. on the other hand, the military is alway so very truthful and ethical.

does the military engage in this sort of behavior? hmmm, "massacre in haditha" ring a bell? MyLai?

[BikeWriter]

6. Sure, some of this may be true. A lot of it is not.

Chicken Little did nothing to improve the reputation of chickens!

[uppityperson]

12. Yes, the military does, so stick to the real atrocities

not the made up ones. There are enough real ones, it is easy to believe the worst whenever something like this comes up. Please vote this page up so that people can see that it is lies, since it seems they are still confused on the big thread. Thanks.

[niyad]

37. I understand about the lie-- just wondering who put him up to this and how

much he got paid.

[BikeWriter]

9. 313 Posts 54 votes for a lie! Will anybody vote for the truth?

[uppityperson]

10. Me

There are mistruths and misperceptions by all sides. People want to believe things of all sorts and look for the "proof" to support what they want to believe. Staying open minded can be tough. Thank you BikeWriter for what you have done and continue to do. Peace to you.

[BikeWriter]

11. Thank you very much, Uppityperson. I've heard first hand accounts...

of atrocities in VietNam that were truthful, and would never attempt to deny they happened. Crude attempts like Jessie Macbeth's to discredit our troops should be punished. I hope he's charged with claiming awards and honors he never earned.

[libhill]

39. Not trying to justify "atrocities"

but, unfortunate things happen sometimes in low intensity, guerrilla wars, where the enemy is sometimes hard to define or sort out. Iraq is not a conventional war such as World War Two, or even Desert Storm where the enemies and objectives were clearly defined. And I agree that liars like this character in question only make things more difficult for the troops in the field...

[davepc]

13. IVAW: We have learned that Jesse is not what he represented himself to be

Questions have been raised about Jesse MacBeth and his claims of service in Iraq. MacBeth came to Iraq Veterans Against the War in January 2006 asking for help, and the organization and its members extended itself to help him in various ways. Assisting veterans is one of the founding principles of IVAW and it is a mission that we take seriously. After looking into his recent claims, we have learned that Jesse is not what he represented himself to be. Accordingly, IVAW does not in any way endorse Jesse MacBeth or any of his accounts involving military service. He -- and he alone -- is responsible for them. IVAW was not aware of the creation of the video program featuring MacBeth, and did not authorize use of our logo in the program.



The timing of the widespread circulation of the MacBeth video interestingly coincides with the ongoing military investigation of the recent Marine massacre of two dozen civilians (including women and children) in Haditha, – what is being termed as an atrocity by one member of Congress (R). MacBeth’s false statements unfortunately have played into the hands of those who would deny that any atrocities whatsoever are occurring in Iraq. While such murders by military personnel are reprehensible, ultimate blame for these actions must be placed on the responsible commanding officers, Donald Rumsfeld, and the Bush administration who have created the context for chaos in through an illegal and unjust war and occupation which they admit has no end in sight.

IVAW is a young and growing organization of courageous veterans and active duty soldiers in the “War on Terror” whose mission is to end the war in Iraq through immediate withdrawal of troops. We believe that veterans should be given the benefits they deserve upon returning home, and that the United States owes reparations to the Iraqi people for the destruction of their country. The invasion and occupation of Iraq was ill conceived and dishonestly sold to the American people, and IVAW members have the special vantage point of first-hand experience of the war to know why it’s wrong and why we need to bring the troops home now.

http://www.ivaw.net/

[BikeWriter]

14. I agree, put the blame where it belongs!

[k-robjoe]

15. He was there, but...?

Here is a link about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

From what I can gather, he was in Iraq, but only for five months, not 16 months like he says.

So he´s lying a great deal, but he was really there, (so they are lying about him not being there) ?

[uppityperson]

16. "possible time" limited to 5 months. Not sure if all a lie.

[BikeWriter]

19. For the time being I would not believe anything he said...

With as many false claims of awards as he's made I would expect him to face criminal charges.

[uppityperson]

28. Thread by grytpype, washed out of basic training

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1298922

The last word on Jesse Macbeth

For those of you who were waiting for the other shoe to drop on Jesse Macbeth... it seems his discharge papers (DD-214) have turned up. He claimed to be a decorated Ranger, deployed to Iraq, who killed at least 200 civilians with his own hand. The truth, according to his DD-214, is that he washed out of basic training at the rank of E-1 and was never deployed to Iraq.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/27/145957/376
http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=3957

[SidDithers]

54. Wiki has been updated...

"He was later ascertained to have been an "Entry-Level Seperation" or ELS after having been declared unfit and/or unsuitable for the Army under Army Regulation 635-200 <2>, prior to successful completion of Army Basic Training."

He was never in Iraq, he never made it through basic.

Sid

[Minstrel Boy]

21. Has anyone found out who he really is?

Because my educated guess is he's playing a part in a COINTELPRO game of discrediting genuine war crimes.

[BikeWriter]

24. That may well be. He was born Jesse Adam Al-Zaid...

(It appears he may have served, but not as a Ranger or Special Forces.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

[struggle4progress]

47. *GASP* He allegedly had a Middle Eastern surname until age 2 !!!

That shows ... uh, I dunno what you think that shows. Why should I give a rat's ass?

[BikeWriter]

51. I could care less what his name was, but potential schemers may have...

Surely you won't deny he could have had backers?

[Disturbed]

26. It seems that aJournalist could find out...

the credibilty of this guy. His statement smelled fishy and his bona fidas were debunked right here on DU. The Vets who sponsored him should have vetted him more closely. His type of bogus story does much harm.

[Tin Man]

23. K&R for truth - n/t

[BikeWriter]

27. Thank you, Tin Man!

[glitch]

25. "This sort of bullshit only serves to discredit real whistleblowers! " yep

That's exactly what it's there for, and to give true believers something to hang their denials on.
This is such an obvious case some intrepid investigator should research who is backing him.

[BikeWriter]

29. I hope some of our press will!

[radwriter0555]

30. The US military investigated itself and found itself innocent again

and again, and again.....

[BikeWriter]

31. Whatever the Army says, the man was obviously a liar.

[Tsiyu]

32. Thanks to all of you who didn't buy it.

Sua Sponte

[BikeWriter]

33. Our thanks to you, too. I hope this will be the last...

false story for a while! :-)

[rman]

41. I'd rather thank those who researched it.

[eridani]

34. The blogosphere beat them out by a few days

Good for us.

[BikeWriter]

35. Bad for anyone who believed these lies and spread them...

without at least trying to verify or discredit them.

[rman]

40. MacBeth is debunked, but the attrocities are not

[BikeWriter]

42. You're right, and I'm sure some have occured. What I despise is...

seeing anyone lumping all the troops in the "babykiller" category, as was done to us during VietNam.

[rman]

53. Reality is that many soldiers opposed the Vietnam war,

and rebelled against it.

Sir! No Sir! - The GI Revolt
http://www.sirnosir.com/
The story of how active-duty American GIs, in their thousands, created a massive, unprecedented movement against the war in Vietnam that could not be stopped.
http://chomskytorrents.org/TorrentDetails.php?TorrentID=1223

[Scoody Boo]

44. The one he claimed to have been a part of were debunked as well. n/t