Immigration Bill Is Worse Than You Think

[G2099]

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R.-Ala.), a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, offered a devastating analysis on the Senate immigration bill in a speech delivered on the Senate floor on Tuesday, May 23. Sessions pointed to shocking elements of the bill that were hidden deep in its text. These include, for example, that the employers of illegal aliens would be given an amnesty for cheating on their taxes, and that under the terms of the law the government would for all practical purposes have to take an illegal alien’s word for it that he has been in the country illegally long enough to qualify for an amnesty.

Sessions also pointed to some of the tremendous hidden costs of the bill, including the $500 billion in additional welfare payments it will cost American taxpayers in the period 10 to 20 years after its passage.

Senators who vote for the bill today cannot credibly claim later they were unaware of the elements and consequences that Sen. Session’s outlined in this speech.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15165

[joemurphy]

1. I'd take anything Sessions says about it with a big grain of salt.

Seesions has done everything he could to sabotage it.

[G2099]

7. Here's a grain of salt for you

The DREAM Act would eliminate this provision and allow illegal alien college and university students to be eligible for in-state tuition without affording out-of-state citizen students the same opportunity. Thus, the University of Alabama could offer in-state tuition to illegal alien students while requiring citizens residing in Mississippi to pay the much higher out-of-state tuition rates.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. We have that law in Kansas already

The UNDOCUMENTED students must be residents of Kansas, have parents who pay taxes in Kansas, they must have graduated from a high school in Kansas and they must have applied for citizenship.

Now tell me why it makes sense to give in-state tuition rates to non-residents who don't support the economy in our state while refusing the in-state rates to taxpayers who do live in the state and who were educated in our state's schools?

But if you oppose this, you may be interested in this group that has filed several lawsuits to have it repealed. (So far, they have failed, BTW).

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer

[treestar]

25. Apples and oranges - states only care about who resides there

States have no duty to enforce immigration laws. It's the feds problem.

But at least those students live in that state.

Out of state students have a home state too. No need to cry over them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Good point

Any kids born in the USA can go to school for an instate rate in the state where they live.

[MaraJade]

46. If the student aid is financed by state taxpayers. . .

as it is in Pennsylvania, then the state has a duty to inform its legal citizens that
they are financing undocumented people.

I'm sure that will be exciting to parents who cannot get state help with student loans
for their American child.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Why should the state subsidize education for kids

whose parents not only don't live in that state but don't even pay taxes there?

Parents who are US citizens can get in-state tuition rates in the state where they live - and pay taxes. They are NOT being deprived of an affordable college edication for their children.

[unlawflcombatnt]

58. Just Great

Let's just give illegal immigrants MORE rights than American citizens. Why don't we just give them all free houses?

[RagingInMiami]

69. The concept is that they will establish roots in those states

As opposed to moving back to their home state after graduating.

[unlawflcombatnt]

59. Good

I applaud Sessions on his attempts to sabotage this disastrous amnesty bill. I just wish he had succeeded. He's wrong on most other issues. But he's right on this one.

[Xeric]

2. why am I reading rightwing propaganda on DU?

[TahitiNut]

9. How about offering some contrary FACTUAL information??

If the legislation DOESN'T have the effects as stated, how about showing either a reputable source saying otherwise or the relevant parts of the legislation? (I'm no Jeff Sessions fan. Far from it! But Sessions is basing his statement on research performed by the CBO!)

Here, let me help you and offer the (non-partisan) Congressional Research Service summary ...

Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 - Sets forth border security and enforcement provisions, including provisions respecting: (1) personnel and asset increases and enhancements; (2) a National Strategy for Border Security; (3) border security initiatives, including biometric data enhancements and a biometric entry-exit system, document integrity, and mandatory detention of aliens apprehended at or between ports of entry; and (4) Central American gangs.

Border Tunnel Prevention Act - Provides criminal penalties for construction, financing, or use of illegal border tunnels or passages.

Border Law Enforcement Relief Act of 2006 - Authorizes a border relief grant program for a tribal, state, or local law enforcement agency in a county: (1) no more than 100 miles from a U.S. border with Canada or Mexico; or (2) more than 100 miles from any such border but which is a high impact area.

Sets forth interior enforcement provisions, including provisions respecting: (1) alien terrorists; (2) alien street gang members; (3) illegal entry and reentry; (4) passport and immigration fraud; (5) criminal aliens; (6) voluntary departure; (7) detention and alternatives; (8) criminal penalties; (9) alien smuggling; (10) tribal lands security; (11) state and local enforcement of immigration laws; (12) expedited removal; and (13) alien protection from sex offenders.

Makes it unlawful to knowingly hire, recruit, or refer for a fee an unauthorized alien.

Establishes in the Treasury the Employer Compliance Fund.

Provides for additional worksite and fraud detection personnel.

Provides for a report examining the impacts of the current and proposed annual grants of legal status, including immigrant and nonimmigrant status, along with the current level of illegal immigration, on U.S. infrastructure and quality of life.

Establishes a temporary guest worker program (H-2C visa). Provides: (1) that the Secretary of Homeland Security shall determine H-2C eligibility; (2) for a three-year admission with one additional three-year extension; (3) issuance of H-4 nonimmigrant visas for accompanying or following spouse and children; (4) for U.S. worker protection; (5) for implementation of an alien employment management system; and (6) establishment of a Temporary Worker Task Force.

Expands the S-visa (witness/informant) classification.

Limits the L-visa (intracompany transfer) classification.

Fairness in Immigration Litigation Act of 2006 - Sets forth provisions respecting remedies for immigration legislation.

Sets forth backlog reduction provisions respecting: (1) family-sponsored and employment-based immigrant levels; (2) country limits; (3) immigrant visa allocations; (4) minor children; (5) shortage occupations; and (6) student and advanced degree visas.

Widows and Orphans Act of 2006 - Establishes a special immigrant category for certain children and women at risk of harm.

Immigrant Accountability Act of 2006 - Provides permanent resident status adjustment for a qualifying illegal alien (and the spouse and children of such alien) who has been in the United States for five years and employed (with exceptions) for specified periods of time.

Authorizes mandatory departure and immigrant or nonimmigrant reentry for a qualifying illegal alien who has been present and employed in the United States since January 7, 2004. Establishes a three-year mandatory departure status, and sets forth immigration prohibitions and penalties for failure to depart or delayed departure. Subjects the spouse or children of a principal alien to the same conditions as such alien, except that if such alien meets the departure requirement the spouse and children will be deemed to have done so.

Agricultural Job Opportunities, Benefits, and Security Act of 2006, or AgJOBS Act of 2006 - Establishes a pilot program (Blue Card program) for adjustment to permanent resident status of qualifying agricultural workers who have worked in the United States during the two-year period ending December 31, 2005, and have been employed for specified periods of time subsequent to enactment of this Act.

Revises the H-2A (temporary agricultural worker) program.

Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors Act of 2006 or the DREAM Act of 2006 - Eliminates denial of an unlawful alien's eligibility for higher education benefits based on state residence unless a U.S. national is similarly eligible without regard to such state residence. Authorizes cancellation of removal and adjustment to conditional permanent resident status of certain alien students who are long-term U.S. residents.

Sets forth provisions respecting: (1) additional Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Department of Justice immigration personnel; and (2) the Board of Immigration Appeals.

Kendell Frederick Citizenship Assistance Act - Provides that fingerprints provided by a qualifying individual at the time of military enlistment shall satisfy naturalization fingerprint requirements. Requires the Secretary of Defense to establish the position of Citizenship Advocate at each military entry processing station.

State Court Interpreter Grant Program Act - Provides state courts grants to assist individuals with limited English proficiency to access and understand court proceedings, and allocates funds for a related court interpreter technical assistance program.

Border Infrastructure and Technology Modernization Act - Provides for: (1) a port of entry infrastructure assessment study; (2) a national land border security plan; and (3) a port of entry technology demonstration program.

September 11 Family Humanitarian Relief and Patriotism Act - Provides permanent resident status adjustment or cancellation of removal and permanent resident status adjustment for a qualifying alien who was on September 10, 2001, the wife, child, or dependent son or daughter of a lawful nonimmigrant alien who died as a result of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks against the United States.

Sets forth provisions respecting: (1) noncitizen Armed Forces membership; (2) nonimmigrant status for athletes; (3) extension of returning worker exemption; (4) surveillance programs, including aerial and unmanned aerial surveillance; (5) a Northern Border Prosecution Initiative; (6) reimbursement of Southern Border State and county prosecutors for prosecuting federally initiated drug cases; (7) conditional nonimmigrant worker-related grants; (8) border security on federal land; and (9) parole and status adjustment relief for qualifying widows and orphans.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN02611:


After reading this, consider the fact that this legislation is not foreseen (By the CBO) to reduce the number of undocumented immigrants entering the U.S. by more than 10% for the next three years (2007-2009)! In 2010, the reduction is projected to be less than 20%!!
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/72xx/doc7216/s2611Sess.pdf

[Xeric]

12. And where in that

is the "fact" that this will cost "500 billion in additional welfare" or "allow employers to "cheat on their taxes" or any of the other hysteria Sessions is selling?
Please work on your right wing Republican talking points some more. Maybe Bill O'reilly can help you.

The Ann Coulter ads seem to be having their effect.

[TahitiNut]

20. That's based on an analysis Session got from the CBO.

Go to the link below (it's a PDF file) and read what the CBO had to say. One very interesting thing about this bill is the fact that the CBO foresees VERY LITTLE impact on the influx of "undocumented immigrants" in the years to come, at the same time it sets up a semi-legitimized "cheap labor" pool of millions and millions of "legal" non-permanent immigrants.

The bill is a total wet dream for big agribusiness and big construction.

Hell ... they might as well be running slave ships across the Atlantic. Workers that can't vote and won't complain for fear of being deported. That's the kind of whip Simon Legree could only dream about.

[sandnsea]

29. But but... I thought it was all about "legal" immigrants

Lo and behold, they're "legal" under this bill - and gasp - they STILL aren't wanted.

Well now I am perplexed and my little female brain is just spinning aflutter from this big old immigration bill...

Could it be that people really WEREN'T concerned about whether the Mexicans were legal or illegal??? Oh my, I need a glass of iced tea while I ponder that...

[TahitiNut]

38. Clue: The number of "illegal immigrants" will still be over a million/year

The (so-called) immigration bill deals with the legitimization of the 20 million or more illegal immigrants already in this country. It also purports to set up an alternative guest worker visa program but that program, together with stronger border enforcement and a charade of employer sanctions, isn't foreseen to reduce the number of future illegal immigrants by more than 10% in the next three years and less than 20% in 2010. It's still estimated that 800,000 to a million illegal immigrants will enter this country every year for the forseeable future (5-10 years).

Look - the 'legalized' "temporary"(!) "guest workers" will be about 20% of what're now "undocumented workers" ... who'll STILL be deported if the employer fires 'em. These will be folks in addition to the folks on existing "guest worker" visas.

SOME of those who're currently "illegal immigrants" will be granted "permanent residency" (maybe!) but will still be unable to vote. Only SOME of those will be put on a "citizenship track" but aren't able to vote until then.

The point is that there will STILL be (about 10-20% fewer) illegal immigrants. This bill doesn't even seriously purport to halt that flow - despite the disinformation and confusion that public apologists spread about it.

Cheap-labor corporatists get to increase the number of deportable, non-voting workers by about 50% under this charade of a bill. It's freaking nuts.

It's like a giant shell game and people are arguing about where the peas are. Well, working American citizens at the lower end of the wage scale are the people getting pea'd on.

[sandnsea]

39. Clue: "millions and millions of "legal" non-permanent immigrants"

Like I said, so much for the argument that it's all about legal vs. illegal because as soon as people see how many legal Mexicans there will be, they aren't happy about that either.

You upset about labor exploitation?? Then make a case about that. You don't have to dump on immigrants to do it.

[TahitiNut]

40. Your flip, dismissive response sounds canned ... and ignorant.

First of all, I've not "dump(ed) on immigrants" and I resent the slimey accusation. My maternal grandparents were immigrants as were my grandaunt and granduncle.

Second, whether you know it or not (almost certainly not), the "temporary worker" visas, both current and proposed in this recent bill, are (purportedly) not for immigrants! In fact, they are specifically and explicitly for "nonimmigrants" who are people "having a residence in a foreign country which he has no intention of abandoning who is coming temporarily to the United States" to work. {See INA Section 101(a)(15)(H)}

Getting it yet? :eyes:

There are currently several categories of "temporary worker" visas, including the ubiquitous H-series.

• H-1B Specialty Occupations, DOD workers, fashion models
• H-1C Nurses going to work for up to three years in health professional shortage areas
• H-2A Temporary Agricultural Worker
• H-2B Temporary worker: skilled and unskilled
• H-3 Trainee
• H-4 Spouse or child of H-1, H-2, H-3

The Senate Bill just passed proposes yet another category of "temporary worker" desgnated as the H-2C visa.

Besides the H-series, we have the ever-popular L-series "nonimmigrant" visas for transferred employees of multinational corporations. (Gotta love them multinational corporations! No national borders for them! Nosiree!)

• L-1A Executive, managerial
• L-1B Specialized knowledge
• L-2 Spouse or child of L-1

Now comes one of the most contrived visa categories of all, the TN visa, established under NAFTA and available only to Canadian and Mexican citizens. There is no limit to the number of workers who can be admitted under this visa. The TN nonimmigrant visa classification was created by the 1992 North American Free Trade Agreement ("NAFTA"), and applies exclusively to Canadian or Mexican citizens temporarily entering the United States to engage in business activities at a professional level. Unlike the more common H-1B visa classification, the TN category is only open to Canadian and Mexican citizens who shall work in certain pre-designated professions. Limited to 1 year (at a shot), it can be easily renewed annually as long as the worker returns to Canada or Mexico and reenters the United States to renew it. (Convenient for vacations, huh?) No limit. None.


Besides these "nonimmigrant" visas, we have "Employment-Based Immigrants" seeking a "green card" and admitted under (permanent) visa categories:

• EB-1 First Preference - Priority Workers
• EB-2 Second Preference - Professionals with advanced degrees, and persons with exceptional ability
• EB-3 Third Preference - Skilled workers, professional and other workers
• EB-4 Fourth Preference - Certain special immigrants
• SK-1 Certain Retired International Organization Employees
• SK-2 Spouse of SK-1
• SK-3 Certain Unmarried Sons or Daughters of an International Organization Employee
• SK-4 Certain Spouses of a deceased International Organization Employee
• EB-5 Fifth Preference - Employment creation (investors)

I include this last category, since you seem to want to talk about "immigrants" - and the discourse on DU and in the media is rife with slanted and inaccurate terminology. For example, it's deceitful and misleading to speak of a person who entered this country without legal permission as an "immigrant," particularly those taking jobs "off the books" and who leave their families in their home country!

What we have is a situation that serves exploitative and corrupt big business interests. I posit that those same "interests" have createdand maintained a corrupt neo-colonial plutocracy in Mexico which deliberately keeps people poor, uneducated, and working for below-poverty wages. These are the same multinational "interests" that have discarded and marginalized many tens of thousands of workers at the maquilodoros along the northern border of Mexico. (Convenient, huh?) These same "interests" have decimated and shut out labor unions in this country.

They are creating a low-wage labor force in the US that has no vote and no standing, millions of whom are and will continue to be "illegals" and more millions of whom are ex-felons whose voting rights have been denied them. Without the right to vote and in fear of deportation (both "legal" and "illegal"), these workers are exploited and taxed for the benefit of the "investor class" (the top 1% of the wealthy in this country who own nearly 60% of the corporate stock).

[sandnsea]

41. I quoted your words

So if they were ignorant, that would be your fault for not knowing what you were talking about when you said millions and millions of legal non-permanent immigrants would be coming in under the new bill. Although that is true, so I don't know what your problem is with the words. But, that's been the argument around here for weeks, people didn't mind the immigrants, they just needed to come in here legally.

Suddenly, million and millions of immigrants coming in LEGALLY is also a problem. So you can call me any name you want, but I'm not the one being hypocritical on the issue. The legality or illegality of immigration isn't the issue. It's either labor exploitation or racism, depending on the person. Either of those issues can be discussed without differentiating between legal or illegal; because that was never the real problem to begin with.

And please don't drag your poor grandparents into it, they've got nothing to do with your words.

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. So, your expectation is that once illegality is made legal...

the critics of rampant illegality should be happy?

This isn't an academic exercise. Your fellow citizens are suffering because of current policy, and will suffer even more as a result of corporatist immigration policy.

[unlawflcombatnt]

73. Exactly Right

American citizens are suffering now, and will suffer more from the Bush's Corporatist plans to open up the floodgates to unrestricted immigration. Wages are already being suppressed and that suppression will increase even further when full amnesty is granted under Bush's plan.

Guest workers and amnesty are exactly what Bush and his Right-Wing thugs want, as well as all of the apparent Bush supporters here on DU.

[MaraJade]

43. Commonsense--not RW Propaganda at all. . .

We will all be paying for this, some of us with our own jobs and livlihoods (new HB-1 provisions).

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114843558293361432-SwRgDzcddhJaVRDIqZffp8RXAF4_20070523.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

[unlawflcombatnt]

60. Yes we will

We certainly will be paying for this.

And thanks for the link to the WSJ article. Very interesting.

[depakid]

65. And cites the Wall Street Journal! ...LOL

You've got to be able to do better than that....:rofl:

[Webster Green]

3. If that little asshole Sessions is against it, then I'm for it.

It's that simple.

That right wing site you're linking to really sucks BTW.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. !

:applause:

[G2099]

6. Here is a example of why you should read this

The bill goes as far as setting up an arbitration process for blue card aliens who allege they have been terminated without just cause. Furthermore, the bill requires the Secretary of Homeland Security to pay the fee and expenses of the arbitrator. American citizens do not have a right to this arbitration process, why are we setting up an arbitration process for blue card aliens paid for by the American taxpayer.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15165

[Xeric]

8. Human Events: "The national conservative weekly"

Are you on the wrong site? Because this is DU.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Mann Coulter and Bob Noback on the front page??

at least post a puke alert, okay?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. "Human Events"??? On DU? Why not "Mein Kampf"?

And, there are people here defending this fascism?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. delete

[treestar]

27. We're building a whole new country for the Iraqis

And they're not even here.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Little Star]

54. And if that little asshole Bush is for it then I'm against it.

Guess theres an asshole on either side of this issue.

[unlawflcombatnt]

64. What do you mean "little"?

I'd say he's a big one. And I'm against it too.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. Another great topic: The Left is tied to the party of Death.

What a great site.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. A link to a RW 'source' ??

You're kidding, right?

[sandnsea]

14. Vote Republican then

I swear to god I just give the hell up. Y'all want to know why southern Democratic politicians vote the way they do?? Because they get sick and tired of trying to argue with right wing idiocy. And now we've got the same shit right here on DU.

Can people not apply common goddamned sense.

"and that under the terms of the law the government would for all practical purposes have to take an illegal alien’s word for it that he has been in the country illegally long enough to qualify for an amnesty."

Well then how will they pay the back-taxes that are required by this bill.

"$500 billion in additional welfare payments it will cost American taxpayers in the period 10 to 20 years after its passage."

ANYBODY working for the wages these families are working for will require THE EXACT SAME assistance programs.

Honestly. I'm at DU and still have to listen to Jeff Sessions bullshit.

[Xeric]

17. It is pissing me off too

I'm seeing WAY too much of this kind of crap on DU. Either it's been infiltrated by rightwing goombahs or a lot of Democrats just don't believe the same things I do.

[JHH]

18. Do you believe

that any country should have immigration laws?

[treestar]

28. They should have sensible ones in their own self interest

In the case of the US that means letting the right foreigners in. Not just as few as possible to appease racists dumbots.

Besides, arguing this law is not a good one does not equal having zero immigration laws, you created that straw man.

[jerry611]

35. We are being FLOODED!!!

Millions per year are coming across that border...

This has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats. It has nothing to do with racism. I personally and strongly believe after looking at this issue that the United States cannot afford to take care of the poverty problems of Mexico. We don't have the money. We don't have the schools. We don't have the resources.

And now you support a Senate bill that is going to allow corporations to hire these people, force them to work 12 hour days for 4 bucks an hour (if they're lucky to make that much)? Who's going to pay for their healthcare? Who's going to pay for their education? Who's going to take care of their children? The taxpayer?

90% of Americans are against illegal immigration. Even among Mexican immigrants, support for illegal immigration is very low. I work with LEGAL immigrants every day. NONE favor illegal immigration. And NONE took the day off from work on May 1st. Everyone showed up.

You are in a very small minority if you favor this bill.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. How about some links to support your 'facts'??

[IndyJones]

62. Find them yourself by googling illegal immigration costs California

Education, healthcare, infrastructure costs, half or our prisons are filled with them - prison costs, higher crime rates....the list goes on and on...

The info is out there and easy to find - IF you are interested in the facts, that is.

[depakid]

66. Maybe you'd consider having a similar look yourself!

Before making duplicitous assertions- because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Here's something from the Oregon Center for Public Policy, for example:

Undocumented Workers Are Taxpayers, Too

"Recent public discussion emerging from Oregon’s gubernatorial race focuses on, and at times exaggerates, the costs to Oregon of providing certain public services to undocumented immigrant workers and their families. Relatively little has been mentioned about the contributions undocumented workers make to Oregon.

Undocumented workers are an important part of Oregon’s economy. The work they perform is vital in certain industries. In addition, a substantial portion of the roughly $2 billion they earn in income each year is spent on goods, services, and taxes in Oregon, to the benefit of the state economy.

This issue brief estimates the total contributions by undocumented Oregon workers in state income taxes, property taxes, and excise taxes. In addition, this issue brief computes the approximate amount undocumented workers pay in federal Social Security and Medicare taxes, which are matched by employers. Last, it also estimates the amount Oregon employers pay in state unemployment insurance taxes on behalf of undocumented workers."

Here's the rundown: http://www.ocpp.org/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=issue060401immig

Here's the issue brief: http://www.ocpp.org/2006/issue060401%20Immigrants.pdf

Fairly simple read- although there are more in depth analyses out there that do comparisons and tell you similar sorts of things.

[unlawflcombatnt]

83. Completely Ridiculous

Did it ever occur to you in your Bush-loving head that income tax revenue would be higher if wages weren't being suppressed by illegal immigrants.

Of course some of illegal immigrants pay taxes. If they weren't here, however, those same jobs would be taken by Americans who'd be getting paid more. The fact that they'd be getting paid more increases taxable income. As such, it would also increase income tax revenue.

Illegal immigrants aren't increasing the number of people paying income taxes in this country. They're simply displacing Americans from jobs who'd be getting higher wages for the same job. Clearly that reduces tax revenue.

The number of people employed (and paying income tax) is determined by the demand for labor, not by how many workers are available.

[unlawflcombatnt]

77. Illegal Immigration Suppresses Wages + Link

I've included this entire post. Check the included link to economist George Borjas' article about 4% annual wage suppression from immigration.

---------

The biggest problem created by uncontrolled illegal immigration is wage suppression. According to economics professor George Borjas, immigration reduces the average annual earnings of U.S.-born men by an estimated $1,700, or roughly 4%. (See http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1804778&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312 )
If that reduction is applied to the roughly 143 million employed Americans, that reduces aggregate annual worker income by $243 billion, or $0.243 trillion. That's roughly 2% of our $12 trillion GDP. That's a loss in consumer spending of $243 billion (less taxes). Given that our entire GDP growth in 2005 was $384 billion, this is a significant amount. Considering that consumer spending is approximately 70% of GDP, that makes the "growth" in consumer spending around $269 billion.

Again, the loss of that $243 billion is no small amount. And it is also $243 billion less money that could have been taxed, costing the Federal government anywhere between $36-61 billion per year. (Increasing the taxable income of a single taxpayer making $42,500/year by $1700 increases Federal income tax by $425. Increasing taxable income of a married taxpayer filing making $42,500/year by $1700 increases Federal income tax by $255. Multiplying these numbers by 143 million amounts to $61 billion and $36 billion, respectively. Thus the income tax revenue lost is somewhere in between.)

Right-wingers will argue that this wage suppression is offset by business profits, and that these profits fuel investment. But investment capital is OVER-abundant at present. Increasing this excess even further will not result in more capital investment. It will result in higher CEO salaries, further overinvestment in the stock market, and further investment in foreign production facilities, the latter of which puts even further downward pressure on American wages.

Furthermore, business profits don't fuel consumer spending. And consumer spending is the engine that drives our economy, not investment. Without consumer spending, there are no returns on investment. And if no returns are anticipated on investment, no investment takes place.

The immigration-fueled reduction in wages does NOT help our economy. It hurts it. It reduces aggregate consumer income and the consumer spending it finances. The reduction in consumer spending reduces consumer production demand, further reducing demand for the labor to provide that production. The reduction in labor demand drives down employment and wages. The resultant labor demand reduction further reduces aggregate consumer income and further reduces consumer purchasing power.

As consumer buying power declines, so do investment opportunities, since those opportunities are created by consumer demand for production. Thus the increased profits resulting from reduction in labor costs create even more excess capital, while reducing investment opportunities still further.

Does anyone really think that wage suppression is "good" for the economy? Doesn't someone have to purchase the goods produced for business to profit? Won't reducing consumer income also reduce consumer goods purchasing? Won't a decline in consumer goods purchasing reduce business revenues and reduce potential profits? Once again, is immigration-fueled reduction in worker/consumer income really "good" for the economy?

[unlawflcombatnt]

82. Zero Immigration Laws if they're not enforceable

We have zero immigration laws if the ones proposed are not enforceable. That's not a "straw man" argument at all.

And we need to let only a limited number of immigrants in, despite what you
Bush-loving, race-baiting, open border advocates say.

It doesn't matter what race they are. It's the total number that needs to be reduced.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. It is getting absolutley ridiculous

I can remember a time when an OP with a link to a RW source like this would have been deleted by the mods.

But now we are all so scared of the Mexicans that we tolerate this crap.

[PublicWrath]

32. Yes, anybody who is making low wages will require the same

assistance, but that does not tell me why a large increase in the rolls of poor Americans who are receiving more services than their tax contribution pays is a good idea. Won't this ultimately mean there is less money to support other programs?
I have nothing against immigrants, Latin American or otherwise, but I question the practicality of enlarging the population of poor, unskilled workers at a time when we may be facing an economic crunch as a result of bushco's disastrous management.

[sandnsea]

47. The pay will stay the same

It doesn't matter who does these jobs, unless we stand up for better wages and benefits, the result is the same - people on assitance. Sessions wouldn't support spending that money for anybody either, so why go into a tailspin over immigrants. Just another case of Democrats buying into right wing spin that pits worker against worker. No matter how many times we say "voting against their interest", it appears too many still fail to see when they're falling right back into it.

This is a labor exploitation issue, not an immigration issue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. YES!! It is a LABOR issue

Glad you see the big picture here.

[unlawflcombatnt]

74. No, Increased Immigration = Reduced Wages

If you increase the number workers, the pay will decline. That's very simple, completely accepted supply-and-demand dynamics. If we increase immigration, it will reduce wages because it increases the supply of workers. Again this is a well-accepted economic reality that is universally agreed upon.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unlawflcombatnt]

86. Vote for Bush again

"I swear to god I just give the hell up. Y'all want to know why southern Democratic politicians vote the way they do?? Because they get sick and tired of trying to argue with right wing idiocy. And now we've got the same shit right here on DU.

Can people not apply common goddamned sense."

Interesting how DU moderators let you rant on and use profanity like this and then delete a post that opposes you. Probably because you hit the alert button.

Heaven forbid someone use profanity or a personal attack when they oppose immigration. But it's perfectly alright when you are "for" open borders. Then there are no rules, because anything is justified in defense of illegal immigration.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Miss Coulter is that you?

How nice of you to drop by.

"Human Events"? Good grief.

[UTUSN]

24. You nailed it. I'd LOL, but it's too serious to LOL about

The Minutemen will not be satisfied with anything less than EXPULSION/deportation. And if they had the POWER securely, they would go for EXTERMINATION (the Final Solution). The three alternatives are:

* ASSIMILATION - "Davy CROCKETT is the role model for Hispanics."

* EXPULSION

* EXTERMINATION.

To those who think that raising #3 is tinfoiling-------1920s Germans thought so, too. And if the OVERWHELMINGLY RACIST Minutemen THOUGHT THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH IT, don't you know they WOULD?

[unlawflcombatnt]

76. No, it's the voice of the America worker

No, it's the voice of the American worker, including such "Right-Wingers" as Thom Hartmann and Paul Krugman.

You should get a nice thank you note from your heroes, George Bush & Larry Kudlow, whom you agree with so much. They'd be proud of you.

[Maestro]

26. So we are believing the shit that repukes tell us.

What a bunch of crap. Still though the bill does nothing to really punish the culprits, cheap labor conservatives. Blame the defenseless immigrant, terra, terra, terra!

[Robbien]

36. Not only does it not punish the culprits, it rewards them

If what Sessions says is true, owners of companies who hired immigrants are forgiven any penalties and taxes due.

What is needed is funding and enforcement of the current laws we have on the books which goes after employers of undocumented immigrants.

[Maestro]

37. More pork in a rethug controlled Congress

Imagine that! :sarcasm:

[unlawflcombatnt]

75. You get ideas, even from the dumbest

Haven't you ever heard the old adage: "You get ideas, even from the dumbest"? It applies here. Sessions is right on target here, regardless of whether he's a Republitard or not.

[Kansas Wyatt]

30. Just watch, House Republicans are going to come off

Looking like the heroes who stood up to Bush on the illegal immigration issue, didn't back down, and refused to go along with the Republican Senate on the illegal immigration issue.

Which Chamber of Congress was in the most jeopardy of going back to the Democrats, and what did the Democrats want to do on the illegal immigration issue? Come on Illegal Advocates, jump in here.

Yet, some here just keep wondering why working people keep voting against their best interests. For many working people, it's not hard at all when they see all the Illegal Advocates putting illegal workers ahead of them, especially when they know exactly how illegal workers undercut their wages and working conditions.

[ny_liberal]

55. This may be Rove's most brilliant move

House Republicans will come out as winners

[Kansas Wyatt]

56. All the Democrats had to do

Was to come out with a loud unified voice that demanded enforcement of the current law, and more severe penalties and imprisonment for the employers of illegals. They didn't even have to bring up the illegals themselves, only a massive crackdown on those who are providing jobs for the illegals. They would have been amazed at all of the working class voters they got back this fall, that they have lost over the years. But, they have just handed the House of Representatives back to the Republicans.

[ny_liberal]

79. Our representatives are slaves to the corporate lobby

. . . just like the republicans

[PsycheCC]

88. You're right. Democrats could win seats easily if they would just

accept the will of the people on immigration. Between the Iraq war, Republican corruption, Katrina, etc., people would love to vote for Democrats if they would just work for the interests of their constituents. But the politicians seem to want corporate donors more than votes. I guess they all think their seats are "safe" or they know how to rig the voting machines.

The whole immigration debate in both houses is starting to look like it's been orchestrated from the beginning to make the House Republicans look good for the 2006 elections even though their bill will never survive the "compromise" with any teeth left in it.

[solinvictus]

33. But don't you know?

We're supposed to welcome the illegals with open arms, give them our homes and jobs, and take our place in the new society. :eyes:

[jerry611]

34. This is a BAD BAD bill

I don't give a damn who is a republican and who's a democrat. Anyone that votes in favor of this bill will never recieve a vote from me.

[ny_liberal]

42. I'd like a couple of tax-free years

Can I pay taxes in only taxes for 3 of the next 5 years?

[MaraJade]

45. If this bill passes, then I'll hire an undocumented woman to clean

for me. I may as well get the same advantage. I can get my home cleaned totally for next to
nothing without being punished by the government for breaking the law.

And a tax benefit to boot!

Finally, crime will begin to pay!

[MaraJade]

44. I'm with you--

I cannot understand how anyone who is skilled labor, especially skilled labor in the information systems
technology, nursing, physical therapy, engineering, accounting, architecture, graphic arts or similar
fields can go for this.

With the number of HB-1 visas being increased under this bill, it is a certainty that thousands more
skilled-labor American jobs will go down the tubes.

Furthermore, this bill expands the use of L level visas, so multinational corporations can move lower-paid
workers from their area to the US and displace American workers.

It's a race to the bottom, people. The middle class is being destroyed on our watch, and all we can
keep talking about is whether someone is linking to a Right Wing source. We must give the "devil his due,"
and see the facts, whether the source of those facts is progressive or conservative.

[ny_liberal]

50. Also the borders will remain effectively open

Once the bill passes, the secure border provisions will be ignored.

[burythehatchet]

48. DU threads linking to Human Events Online

Maybe we can ask Ann Coulter to be a guest blogger.

[IndyJones]

63. No caps on where they can settle, either, so there is no relief

for the border states.

There needs to be caps. CA is flooded. If they are going to come - and it looks like it's not going to be stopped - then there needs to be a move to have them go to other states. The border states need some relief here.

[rucky]

49. Why don't these idiots do an "analysis" BEFORE they vote? n/t

[unlawflcombatnt]

61. Because

Because then they'd have to admit that they already knew the consequences. They'd hate to have to admit to that.

[ny_liberal]

57. A real employment verification system must be implemented

so employers can easily check legal status of all employees.

[RagingInMiami]

68. I'd rather give $500 billion to immigrants

Than spend more than $500 billion invading countries.

[Swamp Rat]

70. Hell, make it a Trillion!

:hi:

At least we can rebuild our infrastructure here in New Orleans and at the same time offer the "American Dream" to anyone willing to work for it.

Btw, have you done any poetry readings lately? I went to a great one a few months ago. The artist (who happens to be a Latino immigrant) made some hard-hitting statements about how we were punked in New Orleans by the Bluebloods in DC. The great thing about it was that he did half of it in Spanish and the other in English... with a lot of Spanglish in between. ;) ¡Óstia!

[RagingInMiami]

80. Hey what's up, SR!

I haven't done any poetry readings in a while because I've been too busy trying to get my photography business off the ground. But I always walk around with a notebook in my pocket, every once in a while taking it out to jot down verses that pop in my head.

Funny enough, some of these verses are in Spanglish.

[unlawflcombatnt]

71. I'd rather not do either

What does one have to do with the other? I'd rather not spend $500 billion either way. We can't get the money back that we flushed down the toilet in Iraq. But we certainly can prevent losing more in the future due to illegal immigration. 2 wrongs don't make a right. They just make twice as big a problem.

[Robert Oak]

78. Senate bill

I'm sorry fellow progressives but in the Senate bill are massive labor arbitrage provisions lobbied for by the US Chamber of Commerce, the ITAA and the richest guy in the world, Bill Gates.

Unfortunately Democrats did the wrong thing and did not support labor.

These Visas are H-1B, H-2B, L-1, F-4 and now the H-2C is most interesting in that it gives protections that are greater than any offered to an American legal resident worker.

This is not good.

Retroactively giving social security benefits when a stolen ID can be purchased for $69 bucks in E. LA looks like a true blue fraud disaster. Not only do we have one social security number being used by multiple people, we also have a problem making sure benefits are giving to the original legal owner of the social security number.

Not good.

Now while you may want to give amnesty to those who are established here, working hard, integrating, not using social services and not committing fraud....

unfortunately that is not what is in the Senate bill...

I also believe that the conservatives who want low immigration period and those who do not want to reward illegal benavior and so forth...versus those who wish to give citizenship to those established are more closer in agreement than what we have being sponsored by corporate lobbyists and special interests.

Throw out the corporate lobbyists and I bet they could reach a real compromise.

[unlawflcombatnt]

81. Those already here

The true concern the Senate has is not "what to do with those already here." It's "what will employers do without all those workers they've hired illegally."

[PsycheCC]

84. Thanks for the link! I don't agree with Sessions on much, but I have

to say he's right on immigration.

[unlawflcombatnt]

85. Same Here

On almost everything else, I disagree with Sessions. But on this issue, I agree with him.

As the old saying goes "You get ideas even from the dumbest." I think that applies to Sessions in this case.

[PsycheCC]

87. This is worth reading, even if you don't like Sessions.

:kick: