What do you think about a Flat Tax?

[Wetzelbill]

Because this is pretty much what I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsUGbu5EaRQ

[applegrove]

1. Not to replace income tax.

[blonndee]

2. So do you agree with Brian or the dog?

A flat tax penalizes the not-so-wealthy, as usual.

[Wetzelbill]

3. Brian is the dog

:)

And, yes, I agree with the dog. :)

[blonndee]

4. Oh, sorry. Don't watch it enough. I guess I meant "Stewie or the dog."

LOL

[B Calm]

5. I thought about it, I then laughed about it, and forgot about it! eom

[OneAngryDemocrat]

6. No brainer...

A flat tax would inevitably lead to less revenue for the government.

Which program do you think the influential rich, in possession of overseas assets, and interests, would like to see cut first: the Nazy's 28 aircraft carriers, or the poor's food stamps?

Visit my anti-war website, www.shockedandawful.com

[Sweet Pea]

10. We have 28 aircraft carriers?

Wow!

[VTMechEngr]

20. NO. We have 12, and one cannot launch planes.

That one is being decommissioned.

[OneAngryDemocrat]

24. I included...

All of the Tarawa class Marine Corps carriers, which carry Harrier jump jets, and helicopters.

Look it up.

[rman]

7. better then the regressive tax we have now (the rich pay

relatively less taxes) - better still would be a progressive tax.

[Lefty48197]

12. The flat tax IS the regressive tax.

.

[TahitiNut]

14. Actually, it's merely MORE regressive than the current tax system.

The very wealthy actually pay taxes at a lesser rate today than a "middle class" worker, despite the facade of 'progressive' tax rates. The most pervasive reason? The taxation of unearned income (e.g. dividends, interest, capital gains) at effective rates less than half of the rates applied to earned income, i.e. income received for one's own labor.

[rman]

15. I'd think if it'd be really flat, then it would be just that: flat.

Where flat = same percentage for everyone.

Reality is that it is called flat but that it is in fact regressive (mainly because of the cap, which is rarely mentioned).
At any rate, there's a long way to go before it can be made progressive.

[Lefty48197]

27. Here's how to make a TRULY progressive tax system:

Grant a $20,000 exemption to every adult taxpayer, and another $5000 for every child. That way a family of four would pay no tax on the first $50,000 they ear. There's a progressive tax structure!
After that, hell make it a flat 30%. 40%. Most working families would still end up paying less.

[Make7]

29. Sounds suspiciously similar in concept to H.R. 1040.

Most recently re-introduced by Rep. Burgess (R-TX). Here is an brief description of the individual wage portion of the proposed plan:

Individuals pay a flat rate on their wage and pension income, and there will be no deductions. H.R. 1040, however, would allow for the following personal exemptions:

• $24,600 for a married couple filing jointly;
  
• $15,700 for a single head of household;
  
• $12,300 for a single person; and,
  
• $5,300 for each dependent.

A family of four, for example, would not be subject to the flat tax until their combined income reached $35,400, which is 194% above the 2002 federal poverty level of $18,244. Thus, the flat tax system is slightly progressive because the exemptions ensure that lower wage earners do not pay any federal tax until they reach a certain threshold, after which they pay the flat rate of 17%.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=2959

- Make7

[Lefty48197]

37. Sure, he stole part of the idea from me....

But my plan is much better. His plan has taxes kicking in at $35,400 for a family of four. Mine has it kicking in at about $50,000, a pretty significant difference. The true difference is that I'd have his rich friends pay more so that struggling families and individuals wouldn't get squeezed so much by taxes. I think it's ridiculous that individuals and families make daily decisions about whether they can afford to buy food vs. paying the rent, or the utilities, or for buying clothing for themselves or their children, or for paying for health insurance or bills.
Millions of decisions to pay one bill, and not another, are made every day in this country. If the lowest income workers weren't paying any federal income tax, then they'd have about 15% more money in their take home pay. You'd think the Republicans would drool at the opportunity, but no. They won't
The problem of regressive tax rates was exascerbated during the Reagan era as the top tax rates were slashed. Creating what? A business class that still isn't making enough money, so they're shipping all the jobs to China.

I'd also like to see the states enact similar exemptions in their income tax structures.

[Make7]

39. I thought it was interesting that the Flat Tax proposal in the House is...

... similar in concept to your "TRULY progressive tax system". The exemptions and the rates are different, but they both actually end up being a progressive federal income tax. That does not necessarily suggest that the overall tax burden would be progressive in either case. (Some math would be needed to estimate that with any degree of accuracy.)

The actual chances of a bill passing that would transfer the tax burden to those that write and sign that bill seem rather remote. That is not to say that an in depth discussion would not be interesting, but it would have little to no possibility of changing anything.

Any change in tax codes is likely to be incremental rather than something drastic.

- Make7

[rman]

31. Nice and simple, effective.

I like it.
Although i do think there should be a maximum wage to.

[papau]

17. Flat tax is more regressive than current income - but a progressive

set of taxes on income make sense-

The flat tax payroll tax should be extended to all income, including investment income at 100 cents on the dollar,

and keep the Bush tax cuts for those cuts that affect only those making less than a hundred thousand plus keep the child deduction increase and the marriage penalty relief, but return to Clinton tax rates for the rich and this time include investment income at 100 cents on the dollar.

[rucky]

8. Pooper-Scooper Economics

kinda like trickle-down, but messier.

[Deja Q]

9. Stewie had the edge in the argument...

Brian sarcastically said was "So flat tax doesn't pay for the wealthy".

Stewie responds with the usual bait the gullible middle class swallows.

I agree with Brian, but the message could easily be misconstrued by the masses.

[GCP]

16. He said "you're trying to tell me flat tax doesn't favor the wealthy?"

Brian is against it.

My point is, it's all about disposable income. The poor have almost none, the rich have too much. With a flat tax the poor would still have the same - almost none, and the rich would have even more.
There's no way it can be looked on as fair, that's why they brought in progressive tax rates in the first place.

[Lefty48197]

11. It's the stupidest proposal of all the stupid proposals the GOP has ever

had.

The so-called "flat tax" very simply transfers the burden of paying taxes away from the wealthy, and towards those at the bottom of the economic ladder. I also think those who support it will fry in hell.

[TahitiNut]

13. At the simplest level, there's one 'Good Thing™' and one 'Bad Thing™'

Without going into the details (like exemptions and exceptions), the notion of taxing all income on an equal footing has one thing that's better than what currently exists and one thing that's worse.

As noted frequently, the horrible aspect is the regressive nature of asking those who benefit the least from our economic system to pay at a rate that has a very real impact on what they can spend on life's necessities like food, clothing, shelter, education, and health care, often making the difference between having adequate and inadequate necessities for survival ... and asking those who benefit the most from our economic system to pay at a rate that only makes a difference in whether they get a 48' yacht and a 52' yacht. No equitable tax system should have such an inquitable impact on people ... particularly since the economic system that government sustains already rewards and favors wealth disproportionally over physical labor.

The Good Thing™??

Our current tax system taxes the income someone receives from the labor of others (unearned income) at half the rate it taxes the income someone receives from their own labors (earned income). At the very least, proposed 'flat tax' systems can eliminate that gross injustice. Not all proposals, however, do so - and I'm pretty sure the wealthy "investor class" would immediately 'correct' any loss of the grossly unjust economic privileges they enjoy under the current system.

In no sense, however, does the single 'improvement' in equity and justice offset the overall inequity, imho.

It's pretty clear that the indolent and parasitic "investor class" have enjoyed enormous economic privileges over the last three decades - better than any time in our history since the Age of Robber Barons. I strongly suggest that every working person read "Wealth, Income, and Power" by G. William Domhoff on his web site regarding "Who Rules America? Power, Politics, & Social Change."

[rug]

18. It's discriminatory and sexist.

[MarinCoUSA]

19. Have some Coolaid, and Rush Limbaugh for President

n/t

[Wetzelbill]

26. Sometimes I wonder if people actually click on the links or not

:)

[Asgaya Dihi]

21. Horrible idea

A flat tax would be a terrible way to deal with things. If you're already spending 90% or better of what you make just trying to get by, taking 20% from that means you go hungry or miss bills. If you don't spend 10% of what you make meeting the bills and the rest is free to invest then the same 20% tax doesn't even touch you in a noticeable way.

If we want to increase the number of homeless and widen the divide between the rich and the poor, a flat tax seems a good way to go about getting there. Shift the burdens even more onto the backs of the poor.

[Squeech]

22. In enlightened societies

it would be considered the fiscal equivalent of a flat earth.

[mac56]

23. Flat tax is a colossaly stupid idea.

I got into a spar with someone in another thread about the so called "fair tax". Here's the highlights:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/mac56/1
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/mac56/2

[Terran1212]

41. My congressman is one of the few fanatics supporting the

"Fair Tax"

It's awful.

[dysfunctional press]

25. ALL capital gains would have to be taxed equally too...

but even then, i'd prefer to see it as a graduated flat tax that exempted the first $35-50,000.

[kentuck]

28. It's another scam...

by those in power to steal even more from the working classes. Call me skeptical.

[GliderGuider]

30. You people ALREADY have a flat tax.

The "payroll tax" on EVERY penny of earned income is about 15%. Then you pay a pittance in "income tax" above that.
The working poor are already severely penalized.

[Make7]

34. Could you define a pittance (as a percentage) for me? Thanks. ( n/t )

[aquart]

32. stupidest idea on the planet.

And a benefit to only the rich.

[Touchdown]

33. The world isn't flat, so the tax structure shouldn't be either.

Thomas Freidman is a rose colored classes wearing utopianist....and an idiot too!

[Hippo_Tron]

35. The dog knows a lot more about politics than the baby

The baby is only concerned with world domination.

[Wetzelbill]

36. What the deuce? You people are way to effing serious!

:)

[gkhouston]

38. okay, I think flat taxes suck

because it's not like I use the tires after they go flat, anyway. :silly:

Better?

[Wetzelbill]

40. much better

:)