Know what the greatest value of the book, the DaVince Code, is (for me)?

[peacetalksforall]

The way the heart can soar imagining that Mary Magdalene might have been honored and revered and might have been the mother of Christ’s child. And from there, the greatest value is in the way the heart can soar in imagining the possibility that women’s role and position in the last 2000 years could have been more revered, less tragic, less tortured, less in need of being submissive; by dictum and subsequently by law, had the wife and motherhood and reverence not been suppressed?

In this country, the heart could soar in imagining that there might not have been need to establish rules for working children, no need for women to fight for a vote – AND that there might not have been all the wars. There might not have been torture prisons and massacres.

Doesn’t a heart want to soar? True Jesus teachings with a revered female role model and activist?

Hooray for imagining! There's so much more to imagine. Imagine 2000 years of unsuppressed Christianity. Imagine a woman apostle. Imagine a Gospel written by a woman - just for starters.

The book is just fiction. But the mind, the heart, the imagination for considering the possibilities of breakthroughs are real.

[magellan]

1. The part about Mary Magdalene being swift-boated by the Church

...appears to be true. Read Smithsonian this month if you can find it. Big article about how the early Church went about deconstructing the truth about Jesus's liberal views towards women and how they should be equal partners by painting Mary Magdalene as the "repentant whore".

[KittyWampus]

14. Appreciate your term "swift-boating" Mary M. however, I'd like to address

the concept of her being the physical wife of Jesus and father of his earthy child.

Jesus was the Great Example and not the Great Exception. He achieved an elevated state of Consciousness that ANYONE, who is willing to put in the time and effort, can eventually achieve.

In Patanjali's Yoga Aphorisms, he explains the various levels of attainment an aspiring Yogi will reach with dedicated daily practise. He also tells us what sort of experiences we may expect upon mastering each stage of developement. All of the powers that unfold as a Yogi progresses is absolutely in line with the Miracles ascribed to Jesus.

Jesus was NOT a rabbi. He was a Master who went even beyond the Exempt Adept (one who no longer is bound by death and can appear at any time or place in any body).

THe point isn't that having a family is unclean or unholy. It is a matter of inefficiency. It's highly unlikely that he would have spent the time and energy having sex, fathering a child and raising family.

Mary Magdalene was quite likely his most advanced disciple. They may have even engaged in a Mystical Union. But that is very differ0ent then the nonsense in Holy Blood/Grail.

In Qabalism and Alchemy there is the concept of "Bride of Christ" and Alchemical Wedding. It's got NOTHING to do with sex as most of us understand it. NOTHING.

Also, Jesus was most likely linked to the Essene tradition. And they practised, to some extent, celibacy.

[peacetalksforall]

17. I can buy that also. I like the possibilities equally. n/t

[magellan]

18. I'm not hung up on whether Jesus was celibate or not

That part of it presents an interesting topic for debate but ultimately it isn't important. What fascinates me is how the Church immediately undertook to scrub from history Mary Magdalene's rightful place as an equal among the disciples, and applied selective revisions and redactions to the gospels, because empowered women didn't "fit their message". Of course, they did this regarding many other matters as well. But even without the evidence showing MM's swift-boating to be true, one has only to look at the Catholic Church's long history of equating women to evil that must be kept in check to see the truth...and who is responsible.

Jesus started a revolution that's still being fought 2000 years later. What a shame that the Church still selfishly seeks to muzzle him.

[BrotherBuzz]

23. That Smithsonian article was a great read..

and well worth the time spent plowing through the entire piece.

Lucky us, the entire article is online:

http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/june/magdalene.php

[magellan]

25. Excellent find, thanks! (nt)

[cpamomfromtexas]

2. I agree. Many parallels with today

For instance, the defaming of Mary Magdalene, could be compared to any number of defamations for political gain that we see every day on the "news".

I've often thought that it was possible Jesus had children because he is described as the chief Shepherd. The requirements for Shepherds or "elders" is defined as being married and having children.

[Wickerman]

3. The value in the book for me has been a reminder to read

some of the lost books of the Bible. Always been fascinated by that so I have picked up a few "lost Gospel" texts. Of those, I best liked "Lost Christianities - The Battles for the Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew" by Bart Ehrman. Good read as historical document and not too heavy on the personal faith dogma.

[PublicWrath]

8. I think you'd enjoy Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind

Who Changed the Bible and Why".

[Wickerman]

9. Thanks, PW, it's actually on the shelf and awaiting me finding

time. Too much DU :crazy: Plus, with so much to read and so much to catch up on I feel a bit negligent when I stay on one topic for too long.

[KittyWampus]

10. "Misquoting Jesus" is substandard scholarship written to manipulate people

using sensationalism.

After reading excerpts and commentary by Ehrman's peers, I would highly recommend people NOT read that book.

[Wickerman]

12. Got a suggestion instead?

I've been meaning to read Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It by Jim Wallis.

I found the above mentioned Ehrman fairly centered on the historical, though "pop" enough for those of us who aren't practicing theologians to read. Not as much room for bias in that book as, obviously could be in his Misquoting book.

[PublicWrath]

16. When you read it, you'll easily guess why it's been pounced on by

angry theologians. ;-)

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Try Elaine Pagels' "The Gnostic Gospels" -- based on

discoveries at Qumrum, it offers up an alternate theology more akin to strains of Eastern mysticism than the Pauline gospel. The Gnostics were condemned early on and suppressed as "heretics," but there are intriguing possibilities that Jesus may have come into contact with Hindu and Buddhist thought during the missing 30 years of his life in the historical record. (My apologies to serious historians\theologians for my attempt to render Pagels' complicated book in a couple sentences.)

[Wickerman]

22. thanks, I'll add that to the list

covers another topic I want to read up on, just where was Jesus for the missing years?

[sinkingfeeling]

4. My heart might soar if just one church were to forget the deity of Jesus &

his 'path to salvation' and concentrate on his teachings. If millions of my fellow citizens proclaimed their Christianity by working to change the world towards peace, the end of hate, the end of poverty, etc. and forgot about praying to god to take themselves to heaven and to burn their enemies.

[Demeter]

5. I Find Value In the Kind of People the Book and Movie Offend

I love anyone who pisses off the Church! Or any number of churches, for that matter.

[Aiptasia]

6. For me it points out how much stock people put in fiction

A sucker's born every minute.

[dysfunctional press]

11. just look at how many bibles are sold every year...

if you want to see how much stock people put into fiction.

[Lexingtonian]

7. Well, that is the point

It's all about feminism getting into the RCC.

But in a very long term perspective, what it adds to the fundamental teachings is in essence zero. 200 years from now people will be unable to relate to the feelings of inferiority and fear traditional women feel now, and the fictions needed to deal with that will look absurd indeed.

[peacetalksforall]

15. I hope you are right. Viva Aquarius or whatever it will be called! n/t

[Jigarotta]

13. wonderful post. recommended.

I felt much the same as you but couldn't put it in such a fine way.

yes, soar is just the word!
why are we so feared?

now i'll read the rest of the thread. thanks.

[genieroze]

19. Saw the movie, empowered women. Male dominance in the church needs to

stop, NOW!

[Jigarotta]

21. kick!

[CTyankee]

24. Unfortunately for the good message, the movie stinks

It is so bad that ridicule of it may damage the great message to which you refer. That's so sad.

[peacetalksforall]

26. I can't understand where I'm at. I don't have any rules about having to

read only the books that are well written or see only the movies that are finely executed.

I lock on to something and I go from there. From the first day that someone told me about the DaVinci book, I knew I was going to read it. I didn't ask if it was well written. I knew I was going to see the movie. I didn't ask who was cast or who directed it or how fast or slow it moved. I went to see it without reading what Ebert said.

I did it for the theme. And what I got out of the book and the movie was more on the intellectual side. It was all about symbols, codology, linking pieces of history together into a yarn accompanied by drop dead settings, archeology, being inside the most famous museum in the world once again from the comfort of my theatre seat, and in some churches and chapels that I would never be in otherwise. I learned from the parts of it that were real = the way symbology and codology are themes on this earth (the book was better here).

Did I care that they got away from the estate of the Opus Dei operative and lost the cops with no explanation of how they did it or that so many people who were Opus Dei were working in the exact civic and banking positions that were essential to the plot?

What is wrong with me? Am I missing taste? Am I incapable of judging what is good - or is it that there are others like me who toss out judgement when the movie is about certain interesting paths of fiction with overtones of truth or when the settings are dreamy or spectacular and fantastic?

I thought the book and the movie were fun pieces of entertainment. And better than an Arnold film.

When I have a reason to take the time to read fiction or go to the theatre, I am so driven by something that I don't discern. I guess that's what's wrong.

Anyway, I highly recommend both - not for execution - for theme and learning.

[CTyankee]

29. Actually, I liked reading ABOUT the making of the movie more

than the movie itself. That interested me, particularly how they shot the scenes in the Louvre.

I thought Ron Howard would do better. I loved his "Beautiful Mind." The acting and the script (while not completely based on fact) were simply wonderful. And I loved the truly surprising ending. Clever and authentic all the way through.

My most recent favorite was "Capote." I really loved watching the actors work and the moral message of the film was delivered in an unflinching way. It really made you think. "Kinsey" was an unappreciated movie that hit me the same way.

DVC struck me as inauthentic and had too many phony notes IMHO.

BTW, my favorite film of all time is "Chariots of Fire." Awe inspiring at everything: acting, story, sets, costumes, direction. I always watch it if it comes on TV.

Maybe by hearing about my favorites you get an idea of the difference between our takes on DVC and different tastes in films.

[The Stranger]

27. Everything in the Bible is fiction. It is not a work of history.

Why does everyone feel obligated to bow down to the reactionaries by repeating over and over that the Da Vinci Code is fiction?

[magellan]

28. Sod 'em if they can't take a joke!

Just because they're fans of one of the most popular works of fiction in history doesn't make them my daddy. And really, I must deplore their taste. The Zen of Pooh was far more satisfying.

:evilgrin: