Does This Offend You - And my response

[Scriptor Ignotus]

I received the following email forward from a high school friend of mine.

AMEN TO THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!!

sticker can also be seen here: http://www.cafepress.com/rightnation.48905933

I'm proud to send this one

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!

I was asked to send this on if I agree or delete if I don't. It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a problem in having "In God! We Trust" on our money and having "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Shut Up and BE QUIET!!!

If you agree, pass this on, if not delete.

I AGREE !!!!

"God Bless America."

PLEASE KEEP IT GOING---IT IS WELL WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---Now my response and yes I cc'd everyone on the email, even the people I didn't know.


I only know some of you on this email, but I felt compelled to respond to all. I’m hoping to change a few minds here.

I’m not offended but I couldn’t disagree more with that original email. The truth is that “God”, as referred to in these pledges and on our currency, doesn’t refer to some unnamed, universal deity that all nations and cultures worship – it refers to Jesus’ dad. Having the government endorse something I don’t believe in makes me a permanent minority and is explicitly unconstitutional ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"). Think for a second about how you would feel if we replaced “under God” in the Pledge with “Allahu Akbar” and commanded you to recite it. That’s roughly how disconnected I feel when Christianity gets injected into the Public Square.

Also, there is the issue of whether or not it is wise to tie the name of the creator of the universe and the Lord of all beings to our money. Do we want the name of God shoved down some strippers G-String? Do we want to use paper with God’s name on it to increase our material goods, thus increasing the envy of our neighbors? This seems to be explicitly forbidden by God in 2 of his 10 Commandments (Thou shall not covet your neighbor's house.. , Thou shall not swear falsely by the name of the LORD...). It is the custom of observant Jews to always write the name of God as “G-d” just for this reason (yeah I’m aware I’m not doing it…)

I included some interesting snippets about the Pledge of Allegiance below. I got this off of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_allegiance#History and it’s a long read but well worth it. I think it might put the Pledge of Allegiance in proper context. The gist is this – it was written as a marketing jingle by a Socialist, children would give the American flag a “Heil Hitler” salute, and the terms “equality and fraternity” were left out, probably because most people were too racist and sexist at the time to tolerate that kind of wording.

I know most people mean well when they support “Under God” and “In God We Trust”, but it does leave a bitter taste in the mouth of some proud Americans. And to the original poster, it would be most decidedly UN-American to just “shut up about it”. Last time I checked, we live in America and I can speak my mind just as freely as you can speak yours.

Finally, let me leave you with this piece by Randy Bissell, a petroleum geologist and member of Parkdale Baptist Church in Corpus Christi:

“What was your first reaction when you learned federal courts in California had rendered a decision effectively striking the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance recited in public schools? I was indignant at the thought that religious faith was suffering another blow in American society, with God being extracted from one more area of our lives. Fortunately, thought and study have reversed my indignation. Perhaps God never belonged in the pledge. For that matter, maybe the pledge never belonged in schools. I don't think God belongs on our coins either. I've concluded that God should be in the governed, not in the government.” http://www.baptiststandard.com/2002/8_26/pages/comment_bissell.html

History


Students reciting the pledge, using the Bellamy salute. (The initial military salute was soon replaced with a hand-on-heart gesture, followed by the extension of the arm as described by Bellamy. Because of the similarity of this part of the salute to the Hitler salute, and the later Supreme Court ruling in West Virginia v. Barnette which unfavorably compared compulsory recitation of the pledge to Nazi and Communist totalitarianism, the Bellamy salute was replaced in 1942 with the modern gesture of placing the hand over the heart without raising the arm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute )

The Pledge of Allegiance was written for the popular children's magazine Youth's Companion by socialist author and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy on September 7, 1892. The owners of Youth's Companion were selling flags to schools, and approached Bellamy to write the Pledge for their advertising campaign. It was marketed as a way to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus arriving in the Americas and was first published on the following day.

---I then posted some more info from the wiki article on the Bellamy Salute and the Pledge of Allegiance. I didn't hear any responses from the opposite school of thought, unfortunately, but I would love to engage someone in a debate over these issues.

[annabanana]

1. I hope you do get some responses.....

My guess is that most of the recipients will, thinking it is some reinforcing claptrap, start reading it, become aware that it is NOT reinforcing claptrap.... turn red in the face, kick a puppy and go knock back a few stiff drinks, cursing under their breath.

[RufusEarl]

2. Well done!

[deaniac21]

3. I'd be willing to bet that you have changed the world.

Keep up the good work!!

[The_Warmth]

4. .

God should be in the governed, not the government. That was beautiful.

[Maraya1969]

5. Excellent response.! Can I keep it and send if it necessary?

It is much nicer than my: "Go * yourself" types that I end up sending back.:rofl:

And I had no idea that children used to use a form of the Hitler - (Belamy) - salute. That is a good one to point out. And I just Love the God in a thong comparison!

[Scriptor Ignotus]

6. thanks

please distribute as needed.

I think I got the thong argument from Franken. That Bellamy salute was pretty shocking. I wonder how many people who demand that the Pledge be performed know its true history.

[Shakespeare]

7. I love the way those emails say....

"if you agree, pass it on--if not, delete!"

Translation: If you disagree, keep your mouth shut. And I note that that phrase is found almost exclusively on the wingnut emails. Funny how that happens.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

11. I noticed the same thing

what a cowardly act that is too. If you agree pass on, if not don't speak up. I think that was the formula for the Bush town hall meetings in 2004, wasn't it?

It is so obviously anti-American it kills me. Do these people think Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Hamilton, Adams, Henry, Paine and Jay all agreed with each other all the time? Our Consitution is brilliant because these people, among many others, debated with each other through a variety of forums and produced all of the amazing ideas that formed our system of government. We should always speak up - dissent is practically an exclusive American tradition.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I got one the other day that was a petition

and it asked if I agree to add my name and send it on. If I disagreed, I could delete it but that would stop the petition!

I deleted it - just to be ornery.

[ktowntennesseedem]

16. When I get crap like that, I usually pass it on,

after I sign a bunch of bogus names such as Jim Nasium, Miss Elanius, I.P. Freely, Heywood Jablomey, etc.

:evilgrin:

[Maraya1969]

8. Looks like it was started by the owner of that particular cafe' press

store.

[Oeditpus Rex]

9. Too many people are far too invested

in mindless ritual.

I never had a problem with "under God," though, until the Freepers and Fundies started screaming bloody murder over it. I just always considered it to refer to my god.

The part of the pledge I find offensive is "with liberty and justice for all."

Because it just ain't so.

[cmd]

12. I have come to a new appreciation for those words.

Use them against those who want to limit freedom for gays and minorities. Point out to them that they just pledged, under God, with liberty and justice for ALL. Ask them which part of ALL does not include gays, etc. Remind them that they pledged using the words under God.

[genieroze]

10. It doesn't offend me but I wouldn't put it on my car. * offends me, not

the flag.

[zeemike]

14. Good for you...that is exactly what is needed

To reply to these things strait away and make sure that all get a chance to hear it.
I did the same thing to a racist email i received like that one and let off a rant that I am sure they thought shocking.
I got only one reply it was a woman that thanked me for doing it.

[China_cat]

15. The one thing wikipedia evidently left out of the

information is the fact that the company manufacturing the flags belonged to Bellamy's brother-in-law. Also, this was a tie-in to the Chicago World's Fair...the Columbian Exposition. (Not named for the country but for the discovery)

[deaniac21]

21. Go ahead and add it. Anyone can edit. That's what makes it

such a reliable source!

[gratuitous]

17. Good response, if a bit long

But then, I think we all need to slow down a little bit from time to time.

Also, I have to wonder what value a pledge has when it's coerced or repeated so mechanistically that the words cease to have any meaning? For example, The Lord's Prayer is a profound bit of religious thought, and wonderfully encapsulated. But after it's been droned over and over again every week or every day for years on end, what meaning does it have any more?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

19. yea i think i went overboard

and i shouldn't have cut and pasted as much as i did. Oh well, next time I get an email that fires me up I'll try and moderate a bit. lol.

[Scoody Boo]

18. I have a freeper friend and Army buddy...

who has a daily flag raising ceremony at his business with his employees saying the pledge of allegeance afterward before their workday gets started.

If a guy is tired of working there, all he has to do is lack proper enthusiasm or be less than solemn during this little tradition. You will find your paycheck in your hand and a footprint on your ass as he gives you the old heave ho.

A little harsh, but he does not fuck around.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

20. what kind of business is it?

i guess that's his right if it's his business in any event. it's a different scenario than forcing children to do it in schools.

[Scoody Boo]

22. It is a service station...

quick lube and detail shop. He also has a small ice distributorship he runs out of there.

[silvertip]

23. Does this offend you

    Not in the least, in fact I think that it was a great
response one that I would not have thought of in a million
years. My normal response has been to send them a reply
thanking them for their concern for my well being but if they
promise not to attack the way I disbelieve then I won't try to
convert them,after which I promptly delete the item.          
                                                            
It is my belief that religion has no place in our govt. in any
way shape or form, which is another good reason to get rid of
Bush & co., even though I disbelieve in his belief.