MEN Rulers, It wasn't always this way. Patriarchal Societies

[opihimoimoi]

Prior to the Levites hijacking the Hebrew Tribes and genociding the Caanites/ etc...things were going along rather nicely in the region we now call Isreal/Lebenon/Syria

About 30,000 years ago and until those Levites arrived...about 4,000 years ago...women had status, respect, credibility, could divorce their husbands, own businesses, etc. Women had a lot to say in Society and in the house hold...

Along came those Men who wanted DOMINATION and SUBJUGATION...they used religion to mask their real intent...MAN OVER WOMEN

All 3 religions have the same roots....MAN RULES, Women are more like property.(Go read the Bible)

Its been down hill for Mankind(HUMANITY) ever since....

The N.O.W....had better get with it and help rectify this matter....and the best odds for success is to join the Blue Movement..the Dem Party....

In doing so, we also help those that cannot help themselves, the improverished, the homeless, the challenged, and the aged/caged.

The playing feild will be leveled...parity between the sexes....its been 4,000 years.

[Swamp Rat]

1. Millennia of suffering

Time for the people of the Earth to shrug off this oppressive paradigm.

[opihimoimoi]

11. The Women of the Nation must be the beacon to the World and

insist on Parity...

[Swamp Rat]

13. I am happy to join them when it really counts.

Parity and Justice

[BrklynLiberal]

2. When God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone

Here, archaeologically documented,is the story of the religion of the Goddess. Under her, women’s roles were far more prominent than in patriarchal Judeo-Christian cultures. Stone describes this ancient system and, with its disintegration, the decline in women’s status.

This page is about the most fascinating book I have ever read; a book that is a must-read for all women, as well as anyone who wants to know the truth. In the beginning, God was a woman. Though I am not a religious person, the book is extremely interesting to me for its sociological and gender role revelations. I have not yet had a chance to complete this page, so check back for more information.

A description of this book: The question most pressing - perhaps the one that has most insistently caused this book to come into being - is this: What effect did the worship of the female deity actually have upon the status of women in the cultures in which She was extolled? In this book, archeologically documented, is the story of the religion of the Goddess. Known by many names - Astarte, Isis, Ishtar, among others - she reigned supreme in the Near and Middle East. Worshipped for fertility, she was revered as the wise creator and the one source of universal order.

Under her, women's roles differed markedly from those in patriarchal Judeo-Christian cultures. Women bought and sold property, traded in the marketplace, and the inheritance of title and property was passed from mother to daughter. How and when did the change in our perception of God (and woman) come about? By documenting the wholesale rewriting of myth and religious dogmas, the author reveals a very ancient conspiracy: the patriarchal re-imaging of the Goddess as a wanton, depraved figure. This is the portrait that laid the foundation for one of culture's greatest shams - the legend of Adam and fallen Eve.

It is time to bring the facts about the early female religions to light. They have been hidden away too long. The facts in this book will help you understand the earliest development of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and their reactions to the female religions and customs that preceded them. With these facts, you will be able to undestand how these reactions led to the political attitudes and historical events that occurred as these male-oriented religions were forming - attitudes and events that played a major part in formulating the image of women during and since those times.

Let's clear away the centuries of confusion and misunderstanding. When the ancient sources of the gender stereotyping of today are better understood, the myth of the Garden of Eden will no longer be able to haunt us! "This book will change the way you look at history and, perhaps, the way you perceive organized religions." --A reader.

http://www.amybrown.net/women/book.html

Another excellent resource on this.
http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/whm2000/stone2.html

[leftstreet]

8. The Chalice and The Blade - Riane Eisler

Also very interesting.

[lildreamer316]

14. HIGHLY recommend BOTH of these!! n/t

[noonwitch]

64. I liked all the archeological information in that book

The Minoans were such a fascinating group.

A good fictional take on it all is "Waking The Moon" by Elizabeth Hand. It's a very good read.

[knitter4democracy]

74. I love the Minoans.

Their textiles rocked! A great read on that is Women's Work: the First 10,000 Years by Barb (I can't remember her last name).

Fascinating on how they used saffron and decorated their textiles. Very cool.

[Raksha]

50. I love that book! Merlin Stone's "When God Was a Woman"

is one of the first books on feminist spirituality I ever read, in fact one of the first ever written. It's a very angry book, but dammit, she has a lot to be angry about--we ALL do! Patriachal religion has been a loser all the way around, and the Adam and Eve story is one of the great hypes of all time. Sheesh, talk about self-serving!

Thanks for the links, although I haven't had a chance to check them out yet.

[opihimoimoi]

67. There is a place on the internet where its free...type in the title/author

Awareness is the key to minimize IGNORANCE

[DavidDvorkin]

3. What's the evidence?

The idea that we once lived in peaceful, harmonious, matriarchal societies has been popular for a while, but it lacks historical basis.

[blonndee]

4. Karen Armstrong has some evidence of the emergence

of these patriarchal societies.

See "A History of God," which has some historical info about the Canaanite religions, which glorified women and in which women were a major part of their religious ceremonies. And this book focuses primarily upon the Middle East, so a lot of the "pagan" and other religions of other countries are not included.

ETA: It looks like you should look at post #2 if you want evidence.

[opihimoimoi]

9. Merlin Stone(Post #2) offers a description based on much research

You should read the book...and look at her bibliography...extensive amount of background...took about 15 years to write it all...

Fascinating and revealing...once read...you will understand why things are the way they are...

[Bridget Burke]

19. Myths of a Matriarchal Age are have been around for millenia...

Although they are not supported by archaeological evidence. But some cultures are/were definitely more egalitarian than others. Central Asian grave goods from nomadic cultures that would be considered "patriarchal" at first glance have produced some interesting results.

The women's occupations during their lifetime run the gamut from housewife, to herder, to priestess, to warrior horsewoman. These are the remains of a society lost to history, where gender roles were not defined according to sex and women more often than not were tribal leaders with power and status.

www.csen.org/WomenWarriors/Statuses_Women_Warriors.html

Robert Graves wrote "The White Goddess; A historical grammar of the language of poetic myth." It's a wonderful book in the mythic sense, but not scientific. (Not that every book needs to be scientific.) With his deep Classical learning, Graves was aware that women in Classical Greece & Rome mostly led quite limited lives. (Of course, there were always exceptions.) Art left by the Minoans suggests, not "matriarchy," but freer lives for women. But watch out--the White Goddess can be a real bitch.

[shance]

62. Matriarchal "myths" are factual whereas Adam and Eve is mytholgical.

and certainly is evident through archeological evidence.

The evidence of the goddess worshipping era exists through the artifacts and pieces that, although they tried to destroy most, didn't destroy everything.

[Bridget Burke]

71. Of course Adam & Eve were mythical

"Mythological" relates to the study of myth--not to a lack of historical proof.

Broaden your scope & study more than Merlin Stone.

[FreakinDJ]

5. Yes about the same time we had ritual orgies too

Granted yes you might view that as fair equality, but also practiced during those times were Ritual Orgies.

Not that I'm opposed to ritual orgies or any thing like that

Just that I'm wondering what time the party starts

At the climax of the ceremony (or should I say, climaxes, fifty times, wow!) the populous would cheer and shout their approval and appreciation. This ritual brought prosperity to the people and to the land, so they were very happy to witness its successful completion.
A lot has been written since women's liberation about the performance anxiety men feel in our modern times. Performing sex in front of other people was not the stressful thing in ancient days as it is now. Sex was often done in religious ceremonies in groups--Orgies.
http://www.goddess.org/religious_sex.html

[opihimoimoi]

10. Stone, mentioned in this thread, mentions the early writings of

historians/archeologists/scholars etc as being very often biased if favor of the male sex. She supports with direct quotations etc.

Whatever...the result has been the "fortification/confirmation" that women are inferior to men and thus deserving of subjugation...

Until only a few years ago...this was true...in America..women got to vote only a hundred years ago...and at about the same time...a hundred years ago, the Catholic Church decided women had souls after all.

MEN rule this Earth...Men rule the systems....and Men make the laws favoring MEN. One of the few places where women have had a chance is in the divorce courts...presently...The courts are very much in favor of extending the divorce proceedings into a legal mess so that only those Lawyers/etc involved make money while both husband and wife lose their asses. Ironic.

With regard to Orgies...yes, when and where...?

[PDX Bara]

6. A Ray Bradbury Quote

From the San Francisco Chronicle a few years ago describing a Playboy interview with Ken Kelley when Mr. Bradbury was 75 years old:

"There are two races of people - men and women - no matter what women's libbers would have you pretend. The male is motivated by toys and science because men are born with no purpose in the universe except to procreate. There is lots of time to kill beyond that... Women, however, are born with a center. They can create the universe, mother it, teach it, nurture it. Men read science fiction to build the future. Women don't need to read it. They are the future."

Edit to add: the "Uppity Women" series by, I believe Vickie Leon, is not only informative, they're fun.

[omega minimo]

7. Cool. Hope GD isn't too busy discussing under what criteria

they would "shoot somebody in the head."

:popcorn: :hi:



("no evidence" :rofl: :rofl: :woohoo: )

[hfojvt]

12. I am sure the historical research is interesting

but is there a pragmatic proposal? Other than slamming current religions, I am not seeing one. Too bad society was totally screwed up 10,000 years ago, but what am I supposed to do about it now? Just feel bad about being male and Christian? Support Hillary for President? :scared: What?
Clearly it's more fun, and just as productive, to discuss Superman and the Hulk.

[opihimoimoi]

15. Me thinks its too late...the Powers that be are like the winners

in the end stage of a MONOPLy GAME...they got too much momentum and POWER

The MEN who secretly Rule this Side of the Planet will not give their Power easily...the BLUE movement must include women as in the French Revolution...

What to do...read merlin Stone...on the internet...its free. Read read read other books re this subject...then tell your friends family etc.

Spread the word that women should have parity...

[treestar]

18. In the broad view, they did

Legislatures who passed the 19th Amendment must have been made up primarily of men.

Women have been able to talk men out of oppression. When it's men over men, the oppressed men generally have to fight some kind of actual war.

[mopinko]

20. support women's rights

n.o.w. is not the national organization OF women, it is the national organization FOR women, and for a very good reason. feminists have known all along that we could not take power at the point of a gun, but that it was a battle for hearts and minds. including the hearts and minds under our own roofs. supporting women is about restoring order to the universe. seriously. do you really think we would be in the mess we are in if you constitution mandated 50% representation by women? no way.
work for fairness and balance, see it as your issue.

[donsu]

29. yes! equal reps. in the House & Senate and every State congress

mandatory

actually womandatory

[opihimoimoi]

32. It shouldn't have to be mandated...more like choosing Parity over Insanity

[omega minimo]

21. Dear hfojt-- this is a real discussion killer

"Too bad society was totally screwed up 10,000 years ago, but what am I supposed to do about it now? Just feel bad about being male and Christian?"

and the sort of arguing that is designed (if it were one on one in a relationship) to just throw up a :banghead: and piss off the beloved/opponent.

aka "missing the point on purpose."

Who ever said "Just feel bad about being male and Christian?" Some Iron John/men's rights/dittohead whiners? Is that really the only option?

And isn't that insulting to the "other side" to pretend that THAT is what will provide solution to our problems?

Come on.

At this point, and on DU, the immediate "poor us-- women want payback" fallback position (and discussion killer) adopted by SOME men is just pathetic.

[hfojvt]

34. discussion killer?

I got 4 replies :P

"Who ever said 'Just feel bad about being male and Christian'" Except for the "just" part, the OP did, or at least hinted at it. I am supposed to go further than that, perhaps, and reject Christianity. Whatever else may have been the point of the OP, it was clearly a slam at Christianity, Islam, and Judaism - "All 3 religions have the same roots....MAN RULES, Women are more like property.(Go read the Bible)"

If I have "missed the point on purpose" you have not reiterated the point, which is perhaps too obvious to you. While the OP was not about men feeling bad for being men, your response seems to be about SOME men feeling bad for being clueless and/or pathetic.

I do not believe I said "poor us - women want payback". As a typical man, I admit my cluelessness to that great mystery "what do women want?" (Cliche alert! cliche alert! dive! dive!) :hide:

Some women want 'parity'. Okay, what does that mean? How is it acheived? What are some first, small steps I can make? Perhaps a clue was in the OP's list of the virtues of pre-Levite society - women could get divorced, own businesses (they had businesses back then?) and were respected, etc. But none of that sounds too much different than today's society, except that today's society is sliding backwards or sideways into some fascist/pnac nightmare and we cannot even seem to stop that, let alone make any progress.

[omega minimo]

43. Listen

That's a start :evilgrin: hfojvt :spray:

"How is it acheived? What are some first, small steps I can make?"

Maybe not throw up a Devil's Advocate :evilfrown: response "the OP did, or at least hinted at it." If you listen, you might not assume those are the only options "guilt, male, Christian......"

You seem interested actually. That's a start. There are some important reasons this info (not fully described in the OP) is relevant to your last point: "...today's society is sliding backwards or sideways into some fascist/pnac nightmare and we cannot even seem to stop that, let alone make any progress."

From #2
"With these facts, you will be able to undestand how these reactions led to the political attitudes and historical events that occurred as these male-oriented religions were forming - attitudes and events that played a major part in formulating the image of women during and since those times."

Attitudes and events that also play a major part in formulating the image of Nature during and since those times. We need to address that disconnect b/w male/female and human/nature in order to survive.

Thom Hartmann had on one of his Ayn Rand Free Market dittoheads on this morning. The guy spews this "Man must have dominion over the environment" crap that has origins in the Bible. (There are strains of Christianity that seek to heal the relationship with Nature-- more "stewardship" than "Dominion") He actually said something like That's what morality IS-- taking the environment and manifesting it for our purposes.

[donsu]

28. but dear, you haven't gotten it yet. try harder

nt

[Anarcho-Socialist]

16. Nominated and kicked n/t

[JNelson6563]

17. You are correct.

The "great religions" of the world have conducted an effective campaign over several millenia to achieve this. In fact, those who initiated this mindset and the plan to make it happen make Machiavelli look like a rank amatuer.

Cheers :toast:

[Strong Atheist]

22. We should push for the E.R.A. :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=664891

[opihimoimoi]

24. Its time for a SHIFT in THINKING to correct this morass of a mess.

[Strong Atheist]

26. ? I don't understand your response. Wouldn't the E.R.A. be a

good step in the right direction?

[opihimoimoi]

27. I'm sorry... YES, it would. What I tried to suggest is that its time for

not only one or two groups but many groups to address fixing the status quo of inequality...

We should be ALL working for a better Future for ALL of us....

At this time, as I see it, the system in place results in negativeity...both in progress and in optimism...it needs fine tuning.

[elehhhhna]

23. The big three assume that God has a penis. That's their main premise.

[opihimoimoi]

25. Together we STAND and DIVIDED WE FALL: By allowing only men to

make decisions...we leave out the other half.....Who sez only men have the best ideas?

It should be equal....that is humankinds challenge

[SalviaBlue]

30. We need to have new leaders.

This is the direction my thinking has been going lately too. I think we are just wrong to let the men decide to take us to war over and over again. I actually think it would be a kindness to just take this responsibility out of their hands. Let them have a rest. They’ve been working hard. They need to be relieved of the burden of decision-making.

I say let it be the MOM’s. We can guide our men and the young women and children. We can decide how the wealth of the planet is best distributed. We can nurture and grow that which we have created and protect that which sustains us.

I am sick to death of the cavalier destructiveness of men.

I have a husband and an adult son. They are kind and loving. I do not hate men.

But these men that are fucking up this planet must be stopped.

I was reading about the Haditha incident and I was struck by a comment by the best friend of the Marine who was killed. He said that when he was back with his unit later that day after seeing his best friend’s body blown in half and then witnessing the murder of innocent men, women, children and a BABY in retribution… After all that, he was just trying not to show his grief to his unit.

This is when the idea solidified in my mind:

These men are fucking crazy!!

We need to put a stop to this MENtality. They are completely out of their minds. They need an intervention. That’s all there is to it. There has to be a better way.

[opihimoimoi]

31. Exactly.....we need to work/support advancement of the Human Species

Look at the world of GOLF...history tells us the name came from signs on the first courses used

Gentlemen

Only

Ladies

Forbidden

Dats right, only men could play the game....

That mindset has changed somewhat but over all...still exists in much of the World...

[SalviaBlue]

33. I did not know

that is where the word golf came from. Now I know why I hate the game so much (besides that it is boring).

[ghostsofgiants]

38. No, golf is believed to come from the Germanic word for "club".

Ugh, people need to stop taking urban legends as fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf#History
http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/golf.htm

[opihimoimoi]

55. Its not definitive the term came from German roots...the Brits might be

cleaning up their act...The Queen is not a "Lady"...she was a QUEEN.

Lemme ask my PGA Golf Pro again...they teach that at the PGA...and that was my source.

[okasha]

45. Women played golf in 16th. century Scotland.

Mary Stuart was apparently rather fond of it.

[ghostsofgiants]

37. I'm willing to bet if you posted that exact same post...

But changed any references to men to be referencs to women, you would get your ass flamed worse than Dresden. It has nothing to do with whether they're male or female, and everything to do with the fact that they're just really fucked up people. Give Hitler a vagina and he'd still be a genocidal maniac.

Do you think if Condoleeza Rice was elected president, she wouldn't be a proponent of the same policies that Bush is a proponent of now? (Hypothetically speaking, of course.)

(Shit, Margaret Thatcher, anyone?)

[SalviaBlue]

40. Two women in decision making positions doesn't sway me.

You say "Give Hitler a vagina and he'd still be a genocidal maniac." Maybe so. But give him babies (and have him breastfeed them for good measure) then see what would have happened.

Condi is no different from the men she pretends to be like.

This whole "men have screwed everything up" thing is grasping a straws, I know. And I have half of my tongue in my cheek. But for God's sake, this war and all this killing must be stopped. Drastic times call for drastic actions.

Lets put the MOMs in charge.

[name not needed]

42. Give Hitler babies and he'd put them in the Hitler Youth

[bloom]

58. If someone made a post

saying that it is WOMEN who rule the world and that it is women who are actually the ones who are starting wars, that are the ones who are really controlling government, control the (patriarchal) churches, are leading the way in the destruction of the planet, are responsible for the men who do most of the killing and raping, the poster should be laughed off of the board - and then tombstoned for being a flaming freeper.

There are freeper idiots who blame everything on feminism and who use that as an excuse for why social programs should be sacked. But like I say - they are freeper idiots and those people should have no place here.

When men and women share power equally - you might have some argument. Since that is not the case - you don't.

And I don't think that Cheney, Thatcher, or Hitler were the people that opihimoimoi meant we should emulate.

[ghostsofgiants]

73. My point is that just because men are in charge...

Doesn't mean that things are fucked up simply because they are men. Things are fucked up because these men happen to share a really fucked up worldview.

And my examples (Thatcher, Condoleeza, and Hitler + vagina) were given to point out that being a woman doesn't exempt you from being a horrible human being.

[redqueen]

65. It's sick that he was more concerned with "acting" like a "man"

than his own grief at the horrific events of that day.

Macho culture must die. Now.

[BrklynLiberal]

35. The victors write the history, and that applies to the Bible as well.

It is not, in my belief, a historical document. It has suffered thru many translations, editing, and downright purgings.
The role of women in history has intentionally been erased from the records that were kept by men.

Ever hear of Hypatia, the great mathematician and philosopher? She was the last librarian of the great Library at Alexandria.
She was supposedly drawn and quartered by the Christians when the library was burned down, along with hundreds of thousands of scholarly books.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/or030897.htm

In AD 391, the Roman Emperor Theodosius prohibited non-Christian religion, and authorized “Theophilus”, the fanatic Bishop of Alexandria, to transform the temple of Dionysus into a church. The pagan inhabitants fled to the Sarapeum as a last refuge, but the emperor issued a decree allowing the demolition of all temples in Alexandria. The Bishop and his followers raided the temple and the library and completely destroyed them, turning the complex into a church. Some scholars believe that the reason for burning the Daughter Library was not only in pursue of pagans, but also to end the Alexandrian Church and theological studies and to transfer the center of Christianity to Rome.

Some scholars survived until AD 415, when Hypatia the philosopher and the last scholar who taught at the Mouseion was assassinated. Her body was shattered into pieces and burnt in accusation of teaching Plato’s philosophy that was considered heretic. Her death marked the end of Alexandrian school of philosophy.

http://www.arabworldbooks.com/bibliothecaAlexandrina.htm

[OxQQme]

36. OK, all you of the fairer sex

Here's what you do to put an end to this madness: keep your knees together unless things get straightened out. Use that honey pot for peace.

[omega minimo]

39. creepy condescending caca

[Raksha]

51. Nah, the reference is to "Lysistrata."

One of the first anti-war plays ever written. That was the strategy of the Greek women. It gave a whole new meaning to "Make love not war!"

[omega minimo]

52. Why do you assume that he knows that reference?

#36 Doesn't seem aware of Lysistrata-- if so-- reduced the message to cutesy, cloying, creepy, condescending caca.

The women of Lysistrata would have told him to go sit on a cucumber.



"36. OK, all you of the fairer sex
Here's what you do to put an end to this madness: keep your knees together unless things get straightened out. Use that honey pot for peace."

[bleedingheart]

54. imagine all that we lost due to the burning of that library

one of the major crimes against humanity if you ask me...

[donsu]

59. agree!

nt

[AngryAmish]

41. I don't buy it

There have been many civilizations over history. You assume there are only 3 religions. What about Buddhist / Confucian / Shinto eastern societies? China has been binding feet for thousands of years.

Those "goddess" worshipers (if I am speaking about the same folk as you) is believed to be Indo-Europeans who mostly populate this country now. There were people alive then and they had to live somehow but scientifically we really do not know how they lived.

[opihimoimoi]

47. Again, its these 3 that has the most impact in our Americas and Europe

Merlin Stones work mentioned earlier was the result of 15 years of research....I suggest you at least browse the book..google

WHEN GOD WAS A WOMAN

[sweetheart]

44. "all 3 religions"

Come, we head on down to the buddhist temple and ask how many religions...

Then, some pakalolo and a pizza up north at Kahuku for a sweet breeze... :smoke:

[opihimoimoi]

46. The 3 religions had the most impact over the past 1,500 years

in Europe and later, the Americas. I did not to mean other religions do not exist..but then you get the point.

Come, we go light one and eat shaved ice with ice cream/azuki beans from Matsumoto's...

[sweetheart]

49. Have they?

Jesus Christ came to Ladakh during his "lost years" and his teachings
reflect someone who attained enlightenment from such a Tibetan buddhist
school of enlightenment. It would make christianity a Buddhist offshoot
where they lost the plot and grossly misunderstood their bodhisattva.

As well, it strikes me that the real religion that dominates the USA
is greed, not christianity. Greed has driven the colonials from before
the country existed, and is indeed the dominant religion of the west,
with a little window dressing of pious talk.

The native american indians and peoples of hawaii and alaska have
religions that have had more impact in the americas than
the MacChristianity. It still exists, all that, subtly in pockets not
stommped out by pervasive patriarchy and its colonizing media. Who is
to say what impact really means religiously, given how real religion is
ineffable.

Belabouring a done point though... Shaved ice sounds good! :-)

[donsu]

60. I'd join you if I could :)

we are both on islands

[opihimoimoi]

69. Kaneohe?? Oahu???

[donsu]

78. Isle of Bones: Key West (corel reef)

nt

[OxQQme]

48. A bit of Truth to go with Merlin

http://gibbsmagazine.com/Sojourner%20Truth.htm
"If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back and get it right-side up again. And now that they are asking to do it, the men better let them." Sojourner Truth

[opihimoimoi]

56. The Simple Truth no less....I only wish she was alive to help/inspire

[donsu]

61. it felt so good to read her words

nt

[OxQQme]

77. Lysistrata- the way to stop this BS

http://www.untitledtheater.com/LysistrataScript.htm
<snip>
LYSISTRATA: Good! Then I’ll tell you my secret plan. My sisters, if we really mean to make the men make peace, there’s only one way, we must promise not to…

CORINTHIAN: Promise not to what? Please tell us!

LYSISTRATA: But will you do it?

THEBAN: We will, even if it kills us.

LYSISTRATA: This is our promise: No more fucking!. Hey! What’s wrong? Where are you going? Why are you biting your lips and shaking your heads? Why are you turning so pale? Will you do it or won’t you? What’s your answer?

CALONICE: Forget it. Let the war go on.

CORINTHIAN: Yes, I agree, let the war go on.

LYSISTRATA: And what do you say, my pretty little flounder, who just agreed to be served up as dinner for peace.

MYRRHINA: Anything but that. I’ll walk through fire if need be, but fucking—there’s nothing like it, darling.

LYSISTRATA: And what do you say?

THEBAN: I agree with her; I’d rather walk through fire.

LYSISTRATA: Oh, women, women!, Are we nothing but a frail sex? No wonder such tragedies are written about us, always the same, we make love with a god and then get rid of the baby. Are we nothing more? Will you support me at least, Lampito?

LAMPITO: Not fucking is difficult, is true. Is nice to have man in bed. But war is more difficult. So if no fucking for no war then yes, no fucking, I say.

LYSISTRATA: Oh my dear, dear, true friend, you are the only real woman here!

CALONICE: But if we don’t—oh, I can’t even say it—will that really help us achieve peace?

LYSISTRATA: Of course it will. If we sit around in sexy see-through clothing, then walk by them naked, letting them see our clean-shaven pussies, they’ll get a such a hard-on that they’ll be dying to screw us. And when we don’t let them—believe me, they’ll declare peace soon enough.

[bleedingheart]

53. In societies where women are treated equally with men are those

that prosper and do far better.

Look around the world, where women are treated better there are higher standards of living.

I think that it is reflective of societies in general, where men and women are well educated and treat one another with respect...you will find peace.

[opihimoimoi]

57. Two Heads are better than one, Together we survive, apart we suffer

etc etc

Unilateralism is a killer.

[Odin2005]

63. There has never been a matriarchal society.

There have been many MATRIFOCAL (the husband come to live with the wife's family) and MATRILINEAL (inheiritance passed through the female line) societies, however. In these societies men were still the leaders but women were very important, especially in religion. Patriarchy delvelops when a society is thrown into generations of conflict, this forces the society to emphasize the importance of young men as warriors.

[redqueen]

66. Your post reminded me of a great quote...

"The world has never yet seen a truly great and virtuous nation because in the degradation of woman the very fountains of life are poisoned at their source." ~Lucretia Mott

:hi:

[opihimoimoi]

68. Unfortunately...how True...

[Bridget Burke]

72. Yes, there have been matriarchal societies.

This article (by a Finnish lady) is somewhat critical of current feminist matriarchal theories--but also critical of the anti-feminists. She does say "that there are in fact matriarchal societies among contemporary, scientifically observed and documented peoples."

However, she believes that egalitarian societies have also existed. And I believe that they provide the best models for our own society.

www.saunalahti.fi/penelope/Feminism/matriarchy.html

[opihimoimoi]

75. I say its time for the women to share the Power..we would have less

odds for war and lolo decisions foisted on us...

[savemefromdumbya]

70. Boudicea

can have warrior Queens too but not Margaret Thatchers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudicca

[opihimoimoi]

76. We need more warrior queens who use pens rather than swords