Haditha was a WAR CRIME: Let's Quit the Rationalizing

[JCMach1]

From everything I have seen, Haditha a a clear-cut war crime from beginning to finish. What I am sick of is hearing aplogists on the left and the right saying any one of the following things:

-War is hell
-We're investigating that
-Military justice will deal with it
-"They cope, or not, as best they can. They follow orders, or not, as best they can. They do what their circumstances compel them to do. They do the best they can, or not." http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1318278

I am sorry, but everyone is guilty in this from top to bottom. While it's true policies were put in place by those above, those Marines CHOSE to pull the trigger. They are also guilty. That was a moral choice and they failed utterly.

By throwing out aplogetics and rationalizations we are doing the moral equivalent of denying the holocaust, or ignoring Pol Pot.

A War Crime is a War Crime...

And yes, this is just one speed bump in the ongoing war crime of Iraq. Innocents have been massacred all during the occupation. The only difference in the case of Haditha is the scale, the brutality and the coverup. I personally know of one incident myself in Fallujah where the uncle of one of my students was shot dead on the street with no provocation and no warning.

Haditha was a War Crime, let's start treating it as such...

[babylonsister]

1. I'm behind this 100%, but all the 'tops' should be held responsible,

as well as everyone else involved.
And then, let's get the hell outa there.

[JCMach1]

3. Hold EVERYONE who is quilty here for the military policy...

and that goes AT LEAST as far as Rumsfeld...

[babylonsister]

6. Again, 100 percent! Now we have to convince those that can

effect change; that's where I don't have a clue.

[JCMach1]

8. Maybe we should begin a push for Rumsfeld's head on a platter

that would be a start at least.

There are good people in the military. I think we all know Rumsfeld is NOT one of them.

[babylonsister]

18. Several retired generals are questioning Rumsfailed, and getting

nowhere. What's maddening is we know this needs to happen, but we have no recourse to do anything.

[JCMach1]

21. He has to go... he was largely in charge of the policies

that have led to a great deal of the problems in Iraq... He has failed completely and completely discredited the American military... :grr:

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Why do you hate the precious Troops?

:sarcasm:

By virtue of being Troops, they escape all culpability. Don't you know the pressure they're under? Have YOU ever been in combat? PTSD! ABCD! Anyone but me! The Troops are the real victims of the Haditha massacre!

:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[JCMach1]

4. Exactly the spin on the Haditha Memorial Day News Dump

:grr:

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Oh, it's the spin here on these very boards

more often than not.

That it is morally bankrupt and logically laughable is obvious enough, but American exceptionalism works in funny ways. When the Other Guys do it, they're evil. When the precious Troops do it, they're Poor Victims of Circumstance. It's an awfully comfortable arrangement for everyone involved. Or, at least for us, which amounts to the same thing with too many people.

[JCMach1]

12. Yes, I was really pissed reading the apologists here on DU

It's like excusing Concentration Camp guards because they were 'doing their duty'...

[walldude]

25. I'm with you guys.. and have been posting so

people talking about pressure and fatigue. FUCK THAT! Nothing in this world can make me put an innocent little girl into the sights of a gun and pull the trigger. Nothing.

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Agreed!

"Nothing in this world can make me put a innocent little girl into the sights of a gun and pull the trigger. Nothing." Nothing could make me do that either.

[babylonsister]

23. You're painting with too broad a bush there, my friend.

There are many DUers who think the soldiers involved deserve what they get, as I do, but I also want their bosses involved. Nothing happens in a vaccuum.

[JCMach1]

27. Should have said 'some'

:)

[babylonsister]

49. And I mean too broad a 'brush' !

:blush: Though since I think dimson should be held accountable, maybe that would apply!

[jpevahouse]

47. spin

So far therre's been amazingly little conservative defense of the marines, at least that I know of.

[billybob537]

5. Iraq is a war crime

There is no reason to be there period. Everyone involved in the scam that got us into Iraq should be tried in the Hague.

[Recursion]

30. I agree. Unfortunately...

The ICC has explicitly stated that it is not mandated to investigate whether a war was lawful ad bellum until after the war is over.

This is the downside of International Law: it only kicks in once the bloodshed is over and then only if the bad guys lose badly enough to be willing to cough up their leaders.

[Marie26]

62. And,

the US has refused to sign the treaty that created the ICC, so US troops can't be prosecuted by the international criminal court for war crimes. The ICC also wouldn't have jurisdiction to rule on whether this war was justified under international law. Convenient, huh?

[LibDemAlways]

35. Completely agree

From shock and awe to Fallujah to Haditha to the streets of Baghdad - we had no business going there in the first place. Invading a sovereign nation for oil and imperialism, killing many thousands of innocent people, using members of the US armed forces to engage in torture, covering up atrocities -- all one giant war crime. More than anything else to come out of this, I want to see the entire Bush Crime family brought to justice. A cell at the Hague is too cushy for them. They should have to serve their time in a cage at Gitmo.

[demnan]

7. Haditha is Mai Lai

What I hate most is we didn't learn anything from Vietnam.

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. It's "My Lai"

pronounced "me lie."

[JCMach1]

11. I think it is worse in a sense... although that's a game I don't

want to play...

The context that the my lai massacre took place was a product of the war itself.

The context that Haditha took place in is a product of an American Military policy in Iraq that disregards life and dehumanizes people at all levels.

[jpevahouse]

50. Too late

I've read and heard stories of the randon, unjustified killing of Iraqi civilians since American troops rolled into the country. It's taken three years for this to make the news probably because the army was successful in having the media not report the murder of Iraqi civilians. Now the US military has failed to gain any real popular support in Iraq suddenly they want to make a media event out of this to try to convince Iraqis and most importantly Americans that they are the good guys. The military had a shoot to kill policy concerning civilians all along and knowingly allowed the random murder of Iraqis. There's no way they couldn't have not known.

[magellan]

15. Probably because those who wanted to know why it happened

...were told to stop trying to rationalize it.

Nothing is learned if we don't attempt to uncover the cause of such incidents. One person may be a psychopathic killer, but groups of people do not normally go around murdering innocent people unless there is some overarching catalyst. If all we do is try and convict these soldiers without holding the people above them responsible as well -- those who set the policies and conditions that led to the moral breakdown -- then we haven't done anything to stop future massacres.

[JCMach1]

17. Yes, exactly right... nothing will be put in place to prevent this

in the future...

This type of dehumanization has been part and parcel of Rumsfeld's military policy in Iraq and elsewhere...

[jpevahouse]

45. Learn?

The fact we are in iraq tells us the US learned nothing from Viet Nam.

[MadMaddie]

13. I agree with you...but no one said the soldiers should not

be punished....I actually said "War is Hell".....

I also said that we know for a fact that the lower rank soldiers will be punished....but what of their leaders in country...and what of this administrations complicity in this...Crimes against Humanity....these Iraqi's died because of the actions of this administration...

No one is saying that what occurred is nothing less than a war crime...it is a war crime and these soldiers could possibly face death for their actions....

[JCMach1]

14. The trigger men are even more guilty here because THEY had

the power to stop this at any time... Someone could have stopped it by standing-up.


No one did!

[MadMaddie]

22. This is a fact....No one stopped it....

This is so bad on so many levels...

If the Marine Corp (they are investigating themselves) find that nothing happened...the world..especially the Muslim World will react even more violently....

If the Marine Corp finds crimes were committed....more than likely only the soldiers who committed the crime will go to trial....but the people higher up in the chain will not be prosecuted....

[madmusic]

70. War is hell! Yeah, I said that, too.

And if these troops are guilty, they will be scapegoats for the entire war. Then the U.S. will convict them then pat itself on the back for being better than the terrorists. Our men and women are in fact fighting with one arm tied behind their backs, so to speak. They never know who the enemy is. Like Powell said, if you break it, you own it. Bush won't own up to anything.

Here, in the U.S., if the driver of the getaway car only sits in the car, and the robber kills someone during the robbery, the driver is guilty of murder, too. That won't happen in this case. Only the soldiers will be guilty.

There's a big difference between....

1. Holding these specific soldiers accountable.
2. Blaming the entire military.
3. Blaming the driver of the car (BushCo).

Let's not get so wrapped up in this specific incident that we forget who is driving the car. That's how individual soldiers were spit on when they came back from 'Nam.

If we weren't there, this wouldn't have happened, and saying that doesn't in any way excuse this incident. It's just a fact.

[MadMaddie]

82. That's a good way of putting it....

It will be up to the American populace to hold this administration criminally responsible for all of the crimes that have resulted from their initial lie..

[eleny]

16. I agree with you

It's been sticking in my mind like a hot coal. Thanks for posting it so clearly.

Recommended.

[Recursion]

19. I really, really hate to be pedantic about this...

...but the Hague will be, so we might as well be too. "War crimes", as generally used, signifies violations of the Laws of War, particularly jus ad bellum. An individual soldier cannot violate jus ad bellum except in very specific circumstances (using a flag of surrender as a ruse to open fire, for instance). That is to say, "war crimes" as generally construed, and as adjudicated by international tribunals, almost universally concern themselves with policies and policymakers, not people carrying out orders.

Soldiers violating lawful orders (or obeying unlawful orders) may be violating jus in bello, but generally this is treated as "merely" the overt act: murder, rape, theft, etc. and adjudicated by normal instruments of justice (which, incidentally, it looks like we're in the process of doing).

These Marines won't get dragged before the International Court or any body like it because these bodies don't deal with individuals committing individual crimes. Conceivably someone at the level of Regimental Commander might face war crimes charges for this, if it could be shown
A) He disobeyed directives concerning safety of civilians (if he was instead following directives, his superiors would be liable, though he could still be in violation of jus in bello), and
B) He encouraged or through negligence did not prevent (and as commanding officer the burden would be on him to prove it was not through his negligence) crimes committed by the troops under his command

The "war crime", as such, is committed by the person who made a policy or directive that led to the overt act's commission, or failed to make a reasonable policy or directive that would prevent it. Even in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, individual soldiers who obeyed unlawful orders are punished (if at all) for murder, rape, etc. and not for "war crimes".

[JCMach1]

20. "did not prevent"

This is where the officers come in... This took place over MANY hours with the last attrocities taking place some 5 hours after the initial events.

That seems to fit the definition to me...

[Recursion]

26. While I agree with you

I have trouble seeing an international tribunal convening to try anyone under the rank of Colonel. The company commanders (who, if I'm not mistaken, have been relieved pending the investigation) are essentially glorified enlisted men as far as legal precedent is concerned, unless it could be shown that some demented captain just cooked up a plan to murder civilians out of nowhere, convinced his unwilling troops to do it, and hid the fact from his superiors.

The "normal" criminal aspect of this massacre isn't any different from a similar non-military situation, as far as I can see: a few dozen people are accused of killing a few dozen people. That's murder, possibly premeditated murder, and the UCMJ has some pretty severe penalties for that (think 1 cigarette, 1 blindfold, and 5 guys with rifles -- but more realistically think life in prison turning big rocks into small rocks).

If this is to be treated as a war crime, one would have to show that policy and directives from a much higher level were set out to encourage or recklessly not to discourage crimes like this. I do not say that showing that would be impossible or even difficult, but a given massacre is not itself proof of that.

So, to make a case for war crimes we need to examine several things that I haven't seen examined in these threads:

1. what were the general rules of engagement as laid out by CENTCOM?
2. were these rules altered down the chain of command to these Marines, and by whom?
3. what actions did the commanders on the scene take and whom did they notify?
4. what actions did their superiors take, if and when they were notified of the killings?

Remember, rules of engagement are generally pretty lenient on initial use of force. From the narrative I heard of that unfortunate girl whose family was killed, there were two separate sets of homicides in that house: 1. the Marines break through the door shooting, killing I think 2 people. 2. the Marines then methodically execute the surviving people in the house, except for the girl, who they think is dead.

#2 is murder, plain and simple. #1 is a harder case to make. Cops kill people in situations like that and it's considered a lawful kill. The question is what happened between #1 and #2. Who was on the scene? Was this directed, or was it to the contrary a complete breakdown of discipline? The fate of the officers in command on the scene hinges on that question. What portion of the unit was involved in the later shootings? Who knew about it? Did the commanders maintain control of the troops throughout, or were they out of communication during the second wave of killings (or were they simply unable to control the troops)?

On a final note, if anyone wants to see a depressing but all-too-real movie about military justice and how officers will let their men be hung out to dry by it, watch Paths of Glory, one of Stanely Kubrick's earliest films.

[JCMach1]

29. 4 sets of homicides... 2 initial houses

then a cab... hours later a 4th house.

[Recursion]

31. Yes; I should have been more clear

I meant only in the first house. I have no idea if the Marines shooting up the other houses and the cab were the same Marines or not. I was just using it to illustrate the difference between homicide and premeditated murder.

[JCMach1]

38. You are right... which marines did the different crimes is unclear

at this point... also the chain of command has to be investigated as well...

[mike_c]

32. "...think 1 cigarette, 1 blindfold, and 5 guys with rifles..."

With respect, tell that to Lt. Calley. The truth is that the the Courts Martial have a conspicuous history of NOT prosecuting many of the folks who commit attrocities, even very well documented ones, and of lowballing the case when they do prosecute.

[jpevahouse]

46. punishment

I'll bet these marines will not be severely punished.

[semillama]

60. Thanks, dmesg

I find your posts very enlightening and I think they exemplify why DU is such an important resource for information and analysis, even though sometimes you have to wade through tons of rhetoric to get to it. Your analysis of what makes a war crime is good to reference when discussing the massacre in Haditha.

You convinced me that it's not a war crime, but you make the point that it's still a crime.

[mike_c]

24. this is what the ICC is for....

Well, in this particular case it remains to be seen whether criminal justice in America will treat this impartially, but personally I'd feel a whole lot more like justice will be served if this case were not tried by Americans. Even here on DU, where there is vehement opposition to the war against Iraq, there is a very stong apologist element who really want to minimize the importance of this crime. I doubt that any American court, civilian or military, will be able to try cases arising from this episode impartially.

[JCMach1]

28. Good point... in some ways it is probably better in military court

because they would understand the nuances of the military code. I have little doubt you are right as to what an American criminal jury would do.

[Marie26]

64. US hasn't ratified the ICC

So, the ICC probably doesn't have jurisdiction to prosecute US troops for war crimes. In fact, the US has actually signed agreements w/other countries to subvert the ICC by refusing to turn over US personnel. And we've actually cut foreign aid to countries that cooperated w/creating the ICC. The US has done everything it cold to stop the ICC court from being created & to stop US citizens from being prosecuted by this court.

[mike_c]

68. I'm aware of that-- that's the point I was making, that the U.S....

...has subverted the ICC to avoid impartial prosecution in precisely this sort of case.

[Marie26]

88. Pretty much

I know you're aware of that, but I just wanted to highlight just how obstructionist the US has been when it comes to the ICC. We've twisted every arm & made every threat possible to keep the ICC from forming. It's almost like we expected that the US would be committing war crimes. The military justice system, as you pointed out, is very biased & hardly impartial. If the military decides to cover it up (and it looks like they did try to do that), no one might be brought to trial at all.

[LuckyLib]

33. It is criminal behavior to kill civilians as happened in Haditha.

It is criminal behavior to have witnessed it and not report it. And it is criminal behavior to cover it up after it has occurred. Period. I'm waiting for the whole f-ing crew to be court-marshalled, from top to bottom. Any bets on whether or not this will happen?

[alittlelark]

34. From start to quagmire it has been a WAR CRIME.

From 2008 on I predict b*sh will not leave the country. On foreign soil he can be detained, indicted, tried and convicted.


Let there be no debate.

[petgoat]

36. I think he'll move to Riyadh. nt

[blonndee]

37. Why was the other thread on this deleted and this one isn't?

I can't get any answers from the mods, so I want to know why we can't discuss this!!!!

[JCMach1]

39. Yet another reason for Rummy to go: Bush learned of Haditha from the press

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2314168&mesg_id=2314168

:wtf:

[ConsAreLiars]

40. Actually, since you quoted me, I agree completely.

The whole war is a crime. A crime against humanity. The lower level hitmen are guilty, maybe they can plead temporary stress-induced insanity, but those who sent them did so with coldly calculated premeditated malice, and have no defense.

[Disturbed]

41. Rumsfailed can be Impeached by the House.

Why hasn't that been started?

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. I am not an apologist

but we still have a justice systtem... a military justice system... and you and I will not serve in that jury... the military will.

that said, how about the leaders (starting at the top) who set the tone?

[treestar]

43. I agree, and they are specially trained to handle this stuff, and

all the sympathy about how tough they have it is sickening - if they are to be glorified as such heroes, then they'd better act like it - I'm tired of the free pass for being in the military. Does this apply to John Muhammed and Timothy McVeigh as well? Don't think so. Just because people are not American does not mean their lives are of no value.

We've had our revenge for 911 over and over and over - just goes to prove revenge is not really so satisfying, after all. And on people who didn't have anything to do with it, but are only just the same as the perpetrators in ethnicity or religion.

[jpevahouse]

44. What if

What it had been American citizens murdered? What would the reaction be then?

[Philosoraptor]

48. CNN is hawking today that it's an isolated incident, oh brother.

[BooScout]

51. Thank you....

I have been saying this for some time now. Not just regarding Haditha.

I am sick to death of people throwing every excuse in the book out there regarding repeated War Crimes by coalition troops.

THESE ARE NOT ISOLATED INCIDENCES.

I lost any ability to support the troops sometime ago because of repeated crimes against humanity. Flame away at me. I'm beyond giving a shit about much of anything anymore.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

53. I agree, and most of all I hold to blame the very top

of the chain of command for putting our troops in this horrible situation.

For all the things that have been done to the military: lack of proper equipment and armor, stop loss programs, the unexpected and prolonged deployment of National Guard, neglecting promises to returned veterans...for all that I believe Rummy and the rest are guilty of high crimes period.

Of course the troops have to be held accountable, and their actions are not defensible. There is no question, because not to do so would be to say that such actions are okay and will be allowed without consequence in the future.

But oh how I'd love to see Rummy, Dub, Chainman, Rover, and all the rest having to live like those troops for even a week.

[Philosoraptor]

55. Had the Supreme Court not intervened in 00, no Iraqi kids would've died

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

56. Let's throw in Katherine Harris, Ken Blackwell, the members of the

Supreme Court who accepted the case and voted for Dub by stopping the recount in FL, and everyone else who has been an enabler to the current administration's fiasco.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

54. The Whole Goddamned War Is A War Crime! The Energy That Started This

War Will Continue With Crimes Against Humanity Unless This Illegal Immoral War Is Ended Now!

I had to get this rant out.

[entanglement]

57. It's a pity I have only one vote to give this thread

But here it is.

:yourock:

[PuraVidaDreamin]

58. Haditha IS a war crime

Iraq is a war crime
Bush is a war criminal
Cheney is a war criminal
Condi is a War Criminal
Rumsfeld is a War Criminal

[Hubert Flottz]

59. War Crime = Frat Prank

Murder = "MORALS and FAMILY VALUES"

[Marie26]

61. Yes, it was.

Under any definition. It's also probably a crime against humanity.

[DemonFighterLives]

63. The cult followers believe it was all good since Muslims got whacked

I'm still waiting for this bunch to lose power.
Damn criminals through and through.
Where is the Justice System?
:dem:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

65. everyone is guilty from the president down to the U.S. taxpayer

by funding the war we load the guns and order our troops to pull the triggers. We are the majority. We decide, WE ARE THE DECIDERS!

[JCMach1]

66. I plead not quilty on that one.... not one of my dimes is currently going

for taxes...

One of the advantages of being an EXPAT!

[theHandpuppet]

77. And we have not forced our govt to withdraw, either

I agree, JG. At some level we all must accept some measure of the responsibility. Have we ground the govt to a halt with a general strike? If not, why not? There are three hundred million of us -- are we so powerless? How many of us have refused to pay taxes until the war is stopped? How many of us continue to gobble up the fossil fuels whose demand has led to these immoral wars? How many of us have been arrested in protest of this war?

No, we want to be "polite" about our outrage. We want to be horrified and angry without being inconvenienced. Hell, we can't even muster up even an anemic show of civil disobedience, yet we continue to express shock that others are committing war crimes in our name.

I may be an oldie but goodie, but having seen what REAL activism can do (think the Civil Rights Movement and also the Vietnam protests) I'm truly perplexed at my country these days.

[JCMach1]

85. We have to convince our neighbors the American Revolution isn't

past tense!

[JCMach1]

67. Repeat it loud and ofter: Rumsfeld MUST GO!!!

:grr:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

69. $2,500 per murder victim? Outrageous!

The relatives of each victim were paid a total of $2,500, the maximum allowed under Marine rules, along with $250 payments for two children who were wounded. Major Hyatt said he also compensated the families for damage to two houses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/world/middleeast/31haditha.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=login

[JCMach1]

72. an insult... that is not even a proper 'blood money' payment

in the Middle East!

[bloom]

71. I agree nt

[Jack Rabbit]

73. Indeed, and sa was the invasion itself

No doubt those responsible for the Haditha will be held accountable.

Getting those responsible for the greater crime of waging an unjustified war of aggression against Iraq will be more difficult.

[Guaranteed]

74. Yes, but when you put it that way, you don't learn the larger

lesson of this.

The same one we didn't learn in Vietnam.

[Up2Late]

75. If anyone still has any doubt about this, here are more Gruesome details

...from yesterdays "All Things Considered" on NPR: <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5440217>

NPR has been doing some very solid reporting on this since it broke, there are more links below and in the side-bar of this report too, on the same page.

The most sicking detail I heard yesterday was that one of the Marines set off a grenade, or similar explosive charge, under the bed of a man who was too ill to get out of bed and evacuate one of the houses when ordered to do so. Another is reported by a 12 year old girl who survived by playing dead, after being shot once. She said she saw her Father, Mother, and two Brothers shot dead in their house, before she was also shot.

I do think these Marines should be held to account for their actions, but I blame Bush, Cheney and Rummy for putting them in this situation, and their failure to make the Politically un-popular decisions that they should take of temporarily re-instating the Military Draft, to provide the numbers of Troops and MP's we need to wrap up this stupid, unnecessary War as quickly as possible. :mad:

Anyone know if they have "rotated" the military staffers at the Pentagon yet? If not, they should get a tastes of a year in Iraq or Afghanistan too.

[IronLionZion]

76. Arabs are not rioting in the streets, because this is nothing new

just because we found out this time, doesn't mean it hasn't been happening all along. Indict Rumsfeld for war crimes. Impeach Bush and Cheney. Bring our troops home. And let's make sure this never happens again.

[Walt Disney]

78. I am curious. Do you have any combat experience or were you there?

If not, how in hell can you sit in judgment of 18-20 year old kids who are doing a job that keeps them on the edge of their nerves at all times?

Haditha is NOT a War Crime, yet. Unless, of course, you do not believe that these men are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

[readmoreoften]

79. Do I sit in judgement. Sure I do.

The same way I sit in judgement of those who obeyed the orders of the Nazis. We sit in judge of "18-20 year old kids" all the time. They're called adults. Some 18 to 20 year old kids are rotting in jail for much lesser crimes.

Do I hold individual troops less accountable than their commanders? A resounding yes. Do I believe that many of them are probably not guilty at all? Yes. I am sure-- POSITIVE-- that some stood by numb or horrified. I'm sure that others pulled the trigger in a fit of terror, mania, and delusion (not guilty by reason of insanity). But I'm also sure that there are those who believe that Iraqis are video game fodder to be raped and killed. Did they learn this in our Fox News war culture? Yes. But I'm sure that Klan murderers were indoctrinated by the rhetoric of their forebears. Serial rapists may have picked up on the notion that women are less-than-human by general culture as well. But they are still guilty. And they need to be held accountable or no one can be accountable for anything.

[Walt Disney]

87. Okay, that is a reasonable response.

I haven't seen very many of those lately.

And I agree, IF a crime was committed, those responsible must be held accountable.

However, the OP is neither rational nor responsible. Are these men not innocent--until they are proven guilty?

[LibertyorDeath]

80. Damn Straight !

Even for those who try to pay attention to what filters through the fog of war crimes, these things tend to run together. Haditha isn't Abu Sifa where, according to Iraqi police, US forces "on a rampage" executed a family of 11, then bombed their house, burned their cars and slaughtered their animals. What more will we hear of Abu Sifa, now Haditha has become the representative and inevitable example of honour's exception?

Because along with Haditha comes Jesse Macbeth, allegedly a former Army Ranger and Iraq war veteran, whose claims that massacre was method rather than madness rapidly went viral on the Net. His story was unsubstantiated and exteme, yet plausible because it was extreme, and provided a template to the pattern of force on exhibit in Iraq. A pattern rarely admitted by the West's institutional media.

But Macbeth, it now appears, is the Pentagon's timely strawman to buttress its case for Haditha's exceptionalism, and to discredit influential anti-war voices such as Iraq Veterans Against the War. Whether unaware or not of his status as a COINTELPRO asset, it doesn't matter, because regardless, Macbeth became a lucky charm for those who refuse to believe the program of horror in which US troops are engaged, and there are many. Similar stories may now be said to have been "debunked," without examination or a straining of battlefield ethics.

More http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com /



Iraqis killed by US troops ‘on rampage’

Hala Jaber and Tony Allen-Mills, New York
Claims of atrocities by soldiers mount
THE villagers of Abu Sifa near the Iraqi town of Balad had become used to the sound of explosions at night as American forces searched the area for suspected insurgents. But one night two weeks ago Issa Harat Khalaf heard a different sound that chilled him to the bone.

Khalaf, a 33-year-old security officer guarding oil pipelines, saw a US helicopter land near his home. American soldiers stormed out of the Chinook and advanced on a house owned by Khalaf’s brother Fayez, firing as they went.

Khalaf ran from his own house and hid in a nearby grove of trees. He saw the soldiers enter his brother’s home and then heard the sound of women and children screaming.

“Then there was a lot of machinegun fire,” he said last week. After that there was the most frightening sound of all — silence, followed by explosions as the soldiers left the house.

More http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2103695,00 ...

[tinfoil tiaras]

81. I agree

Haditha=War Crime

Chimpy=War Criminal

DickDick=War Criminal

And the list goes on and on... :( :(

[Jara sang]

83. Don't forget the "rotten apple" analogy.

I can't stand it when somebody trots that out.

[JCMach1]

86. Forgot that one

:puke:

[Warren DeMontague]

84. The only thing to add is, it was an INEVITABLE war crime.

Just like My Lai. Doesn't take responsibility off of the Marines who did it, but it's worth looking at the commonality of the ingredients- lie-based "war" of occupation on a civilian population that doesn't want us there. Stressed out kids in uniform who just want to get the fuck home. It's a clusterfuck and a mess, and there is no excuse- but the only solution, beyond and in addition to full prosecution of everyone involved from top to bottom, is to GET US THE FUCK OUT OF THERE, NOW.