Many see China as an enemy

[Erika]

Well, get with the program. They've bought too much of our deficit to attack them. We've sold out our national security as concerns China.

It's kind of like they own us. Give thanks to W. He's well on his way to one world government with the elitists ruling all others. He sold us out, lock, stock, and barrel. He sold out the working class completely. Surprise. He never even knew what the working class was.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. The free market shit started with "Big Dog"

It's totally out of control now.

[Erika]

2. I was never a Clinton fan

But he was far better than anything the GOP had to offer.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. At least with Bill, there was some good and bad.

Now it's all bad, all the time.

[Selatius]

7. Far better only on certain points, not on free trade

No, he signed NAFTA and helped the corporatists send the jobs away...to places like China.

[KT2000]

4. As I recall it was Bush I

and GATT. His arrogant visionaries proposed the One World Order.
Clinton did not start this - he continued it though.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Bill could have stopped this and NAFTA

He didn't, he promoted both of them.

[hfojvt]

6. it has been said

"When you owe somebody $100, they can throw you out of a window. When you owe them $100 million, you can throw them out of a window."

[xchrom]

8. thank nixon.

it's nixon who intitutionalized trade as the carrot for foreign policy -- especially re: china.

nixon is the first president to preside over what we now recognize corporatism.

i.e. the legislative branch, the executive branch, the judicial branch and now the corporate branch.

[Deja Q]

11. Bingo. Nixon started it (and liberals loved it at the time...)

Of course, liberals thought Nixon was going for all the right reasons...

Bush is probably finishing it.

None inbetween gave a fuck.

Reagan did some eyebrow-raising things and nobody raised an eyebrow. (What's the name of the company that Reagan allowed to see missile guidance systems to China again, Loral?)

When Clinton renewed what Reagan did, republicans threw a big tantrum.

When Clinton gave China the Most Favored Nation status, republicans were in an outrage.

Not that I can blame the republicans, but they need to look at their own too. No mea culpas. No crocodile tears. So, yeah, I will blame them. They needed to blame their own as well as blaming the other side.

[xchrom]

14. the repukes play both sides against the middle.

you have folks from the moonie times as an example -- bill gertz has built a carreer out of this -- screaming about the military threat china plays.

and then you have the corporate leaders making the government{i.e. the people} using the government as their personal springboard into china and tying the hands of the u.s.

all the knuckle dragging repukes hear is the chest thumping nationalists screaming about the ''threat'' that china represents -- thereby satisfying their base.

[sweetheart]

12. Yes indeed

... heck for that matter, we could take things further back
to the robber barons and their neo-feudal vision of liberal trade.

But the Op catches it right, its not about china vs US. The real
war is between China-US elites vs China-US working classes There
the consensus is to plum the bottom of poverty and desperation
that a slave labour pool is big enough for the new athens.

[Deja Q]

13. Best response yet.

:thumbsup:

New Rome, surely? The Greek liked homosexuality. I don't think the Romans did, but they were a lame lot anyway...

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Ownership Of Debt Has Nothing To Do With It

There is no history of going to war with an economic partner. Without them, we have an inflation problem. Without us, they have marginal growth. It's a full-blown economic partnership, and economic partners do not go to war. They don't want to attack us, we don't want to attack them.

The bonds they are holding are a pittance compared to the trade numbers, and as a result are little more than a hedge against nationalistic nonsense like trade barriers and tarriffs.

Look at the numbers. The interchange of dollars for goods and services dwarfs the debt they hold. And, also remember, that over 60% of their industry is a partnership between the Chinese gov't and U.S. corporations. So, they don't hold any more leverage over our economy than we hold over their economy. Which, i would guess, is the definition of partnership.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Dupe

.

[JNelson6563]

15. Not me

I see them as our future over-lords. ;-)