our soldiers are still killing innocent Iraqis

[bigtree]

2 Iraqi Women Killed by Coalition Troops


Wednesday May 31, 2006 2:01 PM
Associated Press
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5856558,00.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Two Iraqi women were shot to death north of Baghdad after coalition forces fired on a vehicle that failed to stop at an observation post, the U.S. military said Wednesday. Iraqi police and relatives said one of the women was about to give birth.

A car entered a clearly marked prohibited area near coalition troops at an observation post but failed to stop despite repeated visual and auditory warnings, the U.S. military said in a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press.

AP Television News footage showed the women's bodies wrapped in sheets and lying on stretchers outside the Samarra General Hospital, while residents pointed to bullet holes on the windshield of a car and a pool of blood on the seat.

``I was with the victims, one of them was pregnant and about to give birth,'' said a woman who did not give her name but said she was a relative of the victims.

story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5856558,00.html

[Philosoraptor]

1. Haditha was just another damned day in "New Iraq"

[Captain Hilts]

2. They're scared *@#!less and on their 3rd tours of close combat.

They shouldn't be in these circumstances.

[NNN0LHI]

7. Iraqi people don't ever get any R&R

They shouldn't be in these circumstances either.

Don

[Captain Hilts]

10. Agreed. nt

[Scoody Boo]

3. Not that it isn't a tragedy...

but checkpoint and roadblock duty in a war zone is one of the most harrowing duties a soldier has to do.

With the insurgent propensity to use car bombs, there is only so close that a car be allowed to proceed before being fired upon.

The sergeant in charge of the troops at the checkpoint has to have the safety of his troops first and foremost.

Like I said, a tragedy.

[JohnyCanuck]

5. The ultimate tragedy of course

being the illegal invasion, occupation and murder of the citizenry of another country by the US of A.

[bigtree]

6. We can't keep falling back on the self-defense excuse. Our soldiers

are invaders, occupiers. I was under the impression that the security and safety of the Iraqis was their mission in Iraq. Apart from the obvious lie in that, there is still the presumption that our forces are there to protect Iraqis. Ignorant acts like this lead most Iraqis to believe that the troops' safety is their only concern outside of killing other Iraqis.

The troops are either hunkered down or on patrol. They're either protecting their own asses, or hunting down and killing Iraqis under the guise of fighting 'insurgents'.

Either way, we can expect more of this. We need to keep the heat on Bush and the military. They don't need us making excuses for their mindless violence. The soldiers involved will have a chance to defend their actions. They should be fine. The military won't hold them any more accountable than they did the other soldiers who have killed innocent Iraqis in similar incidents.

Yet, when we don't bother to be outraged by the meaningless killings - all committed in support of Bush's manufactured war and military takeover of the sovereign nation - and brush off the killings as an inevitable consequence of war, we give undue legitimacy to the clear repression of the occupying military forces.

[Hubert Flottz]

4. Gawd told Bush to lie and get this thing going.

So Bush isn't to blame it was GAWD that made the mistake, bush is perfect! Ask him he'll tell you!

[MadHound]

8. Our soldiers, our country, has been killing innocent Iraqis for years

Ever since '91. This is the latest chapter in this tragedy.

Is it any wonder that with every passing day more and more people become determined to do away with America? We are creating the very instruments of our own defeat and demise.

[Ava]

9. our soldiers are in hell over in iraq

and i'm sick of people attacking them. a few doing something like this doesn't mean they all are. trust me, i'm against this war and against this president, but i support the troops. this is just another example of why they shouldn't have been put in this situation. they have to endure watching their best friends getting blown up by IED's. They have PTSD and other types of psychological disorders, not to mention that they are just normal human beings like us. Seeing the awful things that war causes is not good for any person. Is their crime wrong and should it be punished? yes, but don't go on a troop smear campaign.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Agreed! Ava. nt

[bigtree]

12. alright AVA you go on being sick. I support the soldiers.

but that crap about a smear campaign won't fly. I have every right to be horrified by the meaningless attacks on Iraqis. I've had it with the justifications for the killings. This war has made our soldiers into murderers and accomplices to murder, some of it in cold-blood, some in defense of their own lives.

Self-defense is to be expected, but they are in the Iraqis house. There doesn't seem to be enough of an appreciation of that. I wonder how you would feel about the honor of Iraqi soldiers if it were they in America, manning checkpoints, shooting indiscriminately into vehicles, killing Americans.

You want to come on all high-handed about this? Then YOU take responsibility for the killings. All I see in your post is sympathy for the soldiers, none for the pregnant women and her companion, none for the countless killed in indiscriminate bombing raids, search and destroy missions, and those shot and killed as our soldiers defend their own lives.

I respect our soldiers. I respect them enough to speak out when I think they're wrong. These killings were wrong. If they can't find a way to stop them from happening they should just leave.

In the meantime, you won't get anymore silence from me about the killings.

UNIVERSAL SOLDIER
Buffy Sainte-Marie
© Caleb Music-ASCAP

Buffy wrote "Universal Soldier" in the basement of The Purple Onion coffee house in Toronto in the early sixties. It's about individual responsibility for war and how the old feudal thinking kills us all.

He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years

He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you

And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way

And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls

But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on

He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.

[atreides1]

14. If the shoe fits

The record so far has shown that even if the troops see something wrong being done, their loyalty to their comrades is much stronger then their concept of right and wrong. They would rather walk past
a war crime or the use of torture instead of reporting it.

Abu Ghraib was only discovered because someone took pictures, just imagine if the photos hadn't surfaced, how far would the torturers and their leaders have gone.

These troops are supposed to represent American "values", torture, the murder of women, children, and
unarmed men isn't one of my values. And, if loyalty is placed over doing what is right, then these troops don't represent me.

By the way, PTSD is prevalent in people who work in high stress jobs, not just soldiers in combat.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Wonder how Americans would feel if Chinese soldiers were killing our women?

I bet they wouldn't take it very well at all. I don't think anyone would be making any excuses for the Chinese soldiers airing out our womenfolk either.

Don