Guest to Dobbs on "anchor babies": Um, Lou why go after the children?

[NNN0LHI]

Lou: "Quick let me change the subject to some other nonsense so no one even knows what I am talking about anymore."

I am paraphrasing but that is pretty much what happened.

Don

[MSgt213]

1. This is the same attempt to deflect from the real issue at hand. Babies

of illegals having citizenship has nothing to do with the immigration debate. Period. If you are born here you are citizen there is no debate. That Republican spokesperson will soon have a posse behind her though.

[earthside]

2. "Anchor Babies" is Irrelevant Issue

If we build a wall to stop the invasion of illegal immigrants along our southern border, then the issue of 'anchor babies' will disappear soon enough.

We should take the billions of dollars that are being flushed down the rat hole of "missile defense" and secure the borders of this nation, build a wall if necessary ... at least we would have something to show for our tax dollars.

But, I'll tell you, Democrats are going to be on the wrong side of yet another potent issue if they don't soon figure out that we cannot economically and environmentally sustain a population of 400 million people (by 2030).

The illegal immigration issue is not about human rights -- it is about commons sense, preserving the middle class and our democracy.

[NNN0LHI]

3. Dictatorships build walls. Democracies build bridges n/t

[FreakinDJ]

5. What base - wheres the base - where did they go

Last polling I saw the majority of Americans didn't favor increased immigration.

Like the poster said I fear this issue will turn on the DEMs

[sandnsea]

6. Actually, not at all

Here's the most recent poll from Arizona. I've never seen a poll where any majority anywhere supported a wall. I've never seen any polls where people didn't support some method of allowing Mexicans to come into the country to work. The issue is making sure fair wages are paid to everybody and making the borders secure enough so that illegals don't hamper that effort.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0531immig-poll0531.html

[FreakinDJ]

7. Like I said "Don't blow the 06 elections"

Dems will succeed if they listen to their base. It is clear that Americans want the border secured. it is also clear they arn't mean spirited Nazis wanting to deport 12 million people

Another earlier survey found that two-thirds of Americans believe it doesn't make sense to debate new immigration laws until we can first control our borders and enforce existing laws. That same survey found that 40% of Americans favor "forcibly" requiring all 11 million illegal immigrants to leave the United States.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/April%20Dailies/Election%202008.htm

Support for strict employer penalties for knowingly hiring illegal aliens was at 70% on both surveys.

Before the marches, 50% said that illegal immigrants reduce wages of working class Americans. After the marches, 52% held that view.

Before the marches, the pro-enforcement candidate led 49% to 40%. In the follow-up survey, the pro-enforcement candidate led 53% to 37%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/May%20Dailies/Immigration%20Rally%20Update.htm

To the effect for the last 6 years Dems have been shunned from the media is only painfully clear.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Rasmussen is not credible. Never has been

Its the poll the Freepers run to when things are going bad for them.

Don

[FreakinDJ]

10. Try again - it was a telephone survey

Really I am begining to question those around here at DU propagating radical ideas towards immigration like open borders for everyone. Not sure if it is 3rd party hopefuls or Freepers in Dems clothing.

So you wish to suggest they Freeped a telephone survey - Good Luck

The Dems are leading in this issue currently, but if they are percieved to be giving away American jobs this will turn on them in a New York second

[sandnsea]

11. The funny thing about open borders

It's comical to me that those who support open borders and the free market for immigration; oppose the exact same policy when it comes to trade. And those who support completely open and free trade; absolutely rage about the idea of free market immigration. Ideology is clearly coloring people's views, all the way around.

And yes, it is rather easy to get a distorted poll. You just plug in the zip codes that you know lean one way or the other, voila, freeped poll. A few years ago I read an article by a pollster, he said the zip codes were the only thing they controlled in a poll. As if zip codes are meaningless, lol. I wish I could find it again, I've never been able to find any reference to zip codes and polling since.

[FreakinDJ]

16. randomly-selected phone numbers by computer

Generally speaking, the automated survey process is identical to that of traditional research firms such as Gallup, Harris, and Roper. However, we use a single, digitally-recorded, voice to conduct the interview while traditional firms rely on phone banks, boiler rooms, and operator-assisted technology.

Following survey design, the Rasmussen Reports' questions are digitally recorded and fed to a calling program that determines question order, branching options, and other factors. Calls are placed to randomly-selected phone numbers through a process that insures appropriate geographic representation. We can ask open-ended questions and later transcribe the recorded responses if a project requires it. We rarely do so.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/methodology.htm

I don't see the "Freeped" connection your trying to claim. Randomly selected by a computer on a National scale doesn't imply they control "which" prefixs or area codes

[sandnsea]

18. Randomly selected by zip code

They plug the zip codes in, the computer randomly selects phone numbers. I'm not saying I could testify to that in a court of law, I'm telling you what I've previously read. They can't just randomly choose phone numbers because otherwise they'd have no guarantee that they had actually gotten a balanced view. They get the supposed balanced view by selecting zip codes for the random phone numbers. They have to do some kind of control, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do the north, south, midwest, west type polls. Selecting zip codes is the only way they can even begin to pretend they've got a balanced poll; it's also the best way to lean a poll one way or the other.

[FreakinDJ]

25. All talk and NO PROOF

Give the boards a break and come back when you can present something other then speculative enuendos to bolster your position.

You want to slam me because I don't mirror your opinion. Then when I present you with hard evidence the majority of America doesn't share your opinion you want to offer additional specuilation that also is incorrect.

Like I said in my "other" post I've been around DU long enough to watch the election results and attitudes of depressed people at the inevitable destruction of America. You are NOT part of the solution. People need to start dealing with REALITY, you are not offering that

[sandnsea]

9. Where does anybody support a wall??

The post in question was about a wall eliminating the so-called anchor baby problem. Why are you mixing up extremist views like that with the Democratic Party??? Most people don't support a wall, as your own articles show, but they do support efforts to make sure wages aren't driven down and that people who work pay taxes. Since Democrats support increased penalties on business, legalization so we won't have revolving door cheap labor, and increased border security without an actual wall; I don't know why you could possibly think we're on the wrong side of the immigration issue.

[FreakinDJ]

12. Who said any thing about a wall

can you show me where I posted in support of a wall

"70% of Americans are in favor of enforcement" that was in the link I posted. It said nothing about a wall.

Now we are talking anchor babies, which I feel does not need to be addressed if the borders are secure. So for the record - NO, I am not in favor of amending the constitution to deny citizenship to person born on American soil.

Does that mean a border agent must grant a foriegn nationals that are 8 1/2 months pregnant entry with a visitor's visa - because ultimately that is the only legally available recourse.

USCIS which is the INS now already has the right to deny visitor visas for that reason. Any time they decide to make enforcement a priority they can

[sandnsea]

14. You agreed with post #2

Which clearly supported a wall. :shrug:

[FreakinDJ]

17. Not that jumping to conclusions with out proof is a bad thing

But isn’t that what you are doing.

Thinking I supported a wall and then professing the polling was rigged.

You need to realize most of America is getting fed up with a radical right opposing a radical left. We’ve sat here at DU through the last 2 election cycles high five-ing each other over early leads only to be kicking the family pet around come Nov.

Clinton was a centrist is why he was so popular and that is what the polls are reflecting

[sandnsea]

19. They're your words

"Been thinking the same thing". I didn't jump to any conclusion, you agreed with the post that supported a wall.

I also explained how polls can be manipulated. I didn't say it was, I said that's how they do it when they're so inclined. Another way is to choose ALL Americans, registered voters or likely voters. Different results, particularly between all Americans and likely voters because likely voters lean Republican.

Clinton was popular because Clinton was popular, and because he happened to be the President during the biggest technological explosion since the automobile, that he was smart enough to put to good use across the country. It's too bad he wasn't smart enough to put enforceable labor and environmental regulations in NAFTA, because we might not be having this conversation if he had. Clinton politics are long gone, they went away in 2004, in case you missed it. We're moving back to politics for the people and as soon as some of our kicking and screaming Dems come along, it will be politics for the people - EVERYWHERE. That's the connection that hasn't been made - outsourcing and immigration have the same root - labor exploitation because we don't have the regulations in place to protect the people. That is NOT Clinton centrism.

[FreakinDJ]

23. You ASSumed I was referring to his comments of a wall

But, I'll tell you, Democrats are going to be on the wrong side of yet another potent issue if they don't soon figure out that we cannot economically and environmentally sustain a population of 400 million people (by 2030).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1323177&mesg_id=1323258

Adding a little relevance to your otherwise irrelevant mis-representation.

Try READING my reply and address the subject of my post.

Currently your putting the Knee-jerk in Liberal

[sandnsea]

24. Well if it makes you happy

Whatever. But your other statement is quite telling too. As if the economy and environment ONLY have to do with the US, either now or in 2030. That's a wall supporter thing to say if I ever heard one.

[FreakinDJ]

26. Lunatic Fringe

Fine

I'll share your position in this debate - Now please tell us all what it is

Or do you have additional proof I'm a "Wall Supporter"

Better yet Tell us the sum total of your knowledge of the immigration bills passing through the Senate and House currently.

This shouldn't take too long

[sandnsea]

27. Oh boy oh boy, I'm Lunatic Fringe!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

You have absolutely no idea how freakin' funny that is.

In any event, I listed up above the short version of the Democratic Party's view of immigration. I thought it was clear that it was my view too, guess not. Tougher employer penalties, tougher enforcement, tougher border security, path to citizenship, tightly controlled guest worker program. That's also the basis of the McCain-Kennedy Senate Bill.

The House Sensenbrenner Bill is an idiotic wall supporter, deporting, felonizing immigrants and anybody who even gives them a glass of water.

I really don't know what you're getting all in a tailspin about. I simply told you some of the ways polls can be manipulated, you don't have to believe it if you don't want to. I happen to think that sometimes they're manipulated towards the left too. If you don't support the wall, fine, whatever; but it was key to the post you said you agreed with so it's not like I just made that up out of thin air.

And it's not like any of this makes me lunatic fringe.

[FreakinDJ]

28. 2/3 is a serious majority

But first and foremost we need to realize none of the immigration debate would not be necessary had we enforced the existing laws. And I think most of America shares that sentiment in the “two-thirds of Americans believe it doesn't make sense to debate new immigration laws until we can first control our borders and enforce existing laws”

2/3 is a serious majority not the effects of skewed results. The whole survey would be seriously off yet it is fairly even handed even favoring DEMs

What I did see in the Senate was the Repubs were all for punishing those here illegally but yet wanting to leave the door wide open for employers. Kennedy led the DEM debate through the Senate and actually offered a sane approach.

Yes call me knee-jerk because I thought it was another open border supporter which I don’t think works in any country.

Actually going over the financial numbers and noticing BOTH sides have skewed their results, I think the sunset amendment might have been wise, if they would have ordered the government study to honestly look at the results.

I don’t think most Americas yet realize the proposed bill creates 2 new categories of work visas over and above granting legal access to those already here. It was clear the republicans sought to expel as many existing workers as they could through exclusionary amendments while supporting a wealth of fresh easily exploitable new workers.

My position is we need to take care of those here already in the short and the long term

[sandnsea]

29. It would seem to me

Your position is that the immigrants are a serious threat to this country, driving wages down, using up our social service resources, and that we have to stop them getting in here any way possible. No more visa programs, no guest worker, no citizenship, American jobs for Americans. And the outsourcing has got to stop too, no more buying imported goods, stop all this trade and Americans just buy from Americans. Is that about it?

[FreakinDJ]

30. and speading LIEs helps the Democratic party because........

You think it is cute to drop lies and enuendoes around these forums without so much as backing up one of your far reaching claims.

Actually all DEMs lose

I'm sure the Republican party thanks you

[sandnsea]

31. What are you talking about now??

Was I right about your view on immigration or not?

And what the hell lies are you talking about?

[FreakinDJ]

32. As usuall you were wrong

and additionally after I had stated my position clearly in the above post.

So yes I would say you have earned the title DIS-INFORMATION ARTIST

Would you like to debate that point now

[sandnsea]

33. You may think you're being clear

But dude, you either need to put down the weed or take some courses in argumentative writing because you are all over the place.

I will answer the poll question though, I said I wasn't making a legal case, that I was relating information I had previously read. You aren't required to believe it if you don't want to. It's just information for you to take or leave, that's what an opinion forum is all about.

[FreakinDJ]

4. Been thinking the same thing

Is this going to be the straw that breaks the back of the “New Deal” and social programs in America while simultaneously providing corporations and businesses with cheap labor?

[idgiehkt]

22. preserving the middle class?

you can't preserve a middle class that a republican admin wants to eliminate. The danger is coming from above, not below, as usual.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Hell, why not just drown them, like unwanted kittens?

"Respectable" racists like Dobbs are even more disgusting than the ones who march around with Confederate flags and Nazi tatoos.

[PublicWrath]

15. I tuned in just seconds before he said that, -one of the guests started

saying something like "That's nonsense" in reference to something another guest said, and then Dobbs jumped in using the same word and switching to the next topic as above. I didn't catch which point the guest had called nonsense.

[treestar]

20. Since baby has to turn 21 to petition parents for permanent residence

This is not a very effective way to gain that.

Most Mexicans don't want to be permanent residents or citizens anyway. The kid just happens to be born in the US because they're here.

[Blue_Tires]

21. i thought Dobbs would go after those

quickie citizen marriages that sadly end in divorce one week later...but then, he can't go after what two consenting adults do, can he?