My Mensa friend is still an imbecile.

[Cyrano]

Sometime before the 2004 election, I did a post about a friend of mine who is extremely intelligent, yet is a die hard Republican who thinks the Emperor Bush can do no wrong. It's now two years later and he still sees, hears and speaks no evil of the evil bastards who have stolen our country.

I bring up the Mensa thing to indicate that my friend is not the character from "Deliverance," sitting on a porch with a banjo. But he might as well be, given his beliefs and blind spots.

He's not wealthy, so he's not benefiting from the tax giveaways. He's not a bigot or a fundie, so he's not buying their wedge issues. There's no visible way from which he benefits from their agenda, yet there's no way I can get through to him.

He believes Cheney is brilliant and Teddy Kennedy is some kind of communist. He knows that Bush is dumber than spit, but that doesn't seem to bother him. He believes we should be in Iraq because it will "help stabilize the world." And he also believes that the victims of Katrina should have been more self-sufficient.

How an intelligent person can arrive at the conclusions he reaches is beyond me. I've been wondering if it's possible for two different brains to inhabit the same head. On most topics, he's brilliant. But when it comes to politics, he's one of the biggest horse's asses imaginable.

Anybody care to offer an explanation for this?

[DemReadingDU]

1. Book Smart, Common Sense Dumb

[Elidor]

6. That's it in a nutshell

A former business partner of mine had a PhD in chemistry and an MBA, and he was dumber than a box of rocks about most practical matters. He once argued that Microsoft having an effective monopoly of the operating systems market was a good thing for us, since all of our computers ran on Windows.

So bone-jarringly stupid you can't begin to respond.

[hobbit709]

20. I once worked with an EE

that was brilliant on electronics theory but when he got hold of a soldering iron one person in the lab was to man the fire extinguisher.

[kestrel91316]

64. I have noticed a similar problem -

my physician clients are dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to ANY aspect of medicine other than their own area of specialty. And they are BEYOND dumb when it comes to anything involving veterinary medicine. I am downright embarrassed for them a lot of times - but it can be hard to sympathize with the egomaniacal ones who think they know more than me about my own patients (cardiologists are the worst).

[Cha]

101. I gotta another "nutshell"

for you. "Morals". No one with any morals would think it would be alright to go in and bomb Iraq and kill innocent people to get sadam when all we needed to do was get him out through the UN..hell, I heard he volunteered to leave.

No one with morals would think the moral less cheney is a "genius".

The OP's friend is missing an important moral gene.

The War On Iraq was Wrong from the get go and it will never come out vindicated.

Edit~ Spelling.

Edit~ Plus any idiot could see that 9/11 happened on bushwatch! One of my pet peeves!

[Triana]

79. That's it....

...I know some Mensans and a lot of them are like that.

[SharonAnn]

93. Well, I'm a Mensa member and I'm a die-hard, yellow-dog Democrat.

I was raised a moderate republican but after I started paying attention to what Nixon and his gang were doing, I distanced myself from the Republican party and became "Independent". After paying attention to succeeding Congresses and presidents, I realized that my beliefs were the core of the Democratic Party beliefs. So I officially joined the Democratic Party when Reagan was elected.

Mensa members seem to be much like the rest of the population. A real mixed bag of thinkers.

[murielm99]

100. Thank you.

I am a Mensan and active in my local Democratic party. I write letters to the editor and guest editorials. I call bullshit on our republican county board members when it is necessary.

Democrats hate the labels that the right gives us. Stereotyping Mensans is no better.

[Dora]

2. fear

He's a big fat scaredy-cat.

He's afraid that somebody's gonna call him a purse-totin' nancy for allowing things like compassion, understanding, and simple human decency guide his decisions. He'd rather hang out with thugs.

What a wuss.

[PATRICK]

3. High speed fantastic capacity

computer with fatally buggy software. Sound and fury signifying nothing.

[rucky]

4. He's the empire building type.

Lemme guess, History or Econ degree. Wealthy parents. Large ambition and/or likes to show off his knowledge.

The Neocons are intelligent, too, so I'm wondering why this is surprising to you.

[Cyrano]

11. No to all of the above. I'm trying to be careful not to say anything

that would let him know I'm speaking about him. (I'm not sure whether or not he reads DU posts.) His family isn't wealthy. He went to an Ivy League school, but didn't major in history or econ. And as far as ambition, he's one of the laziest people I know.

[gaspee]

37. Scared

And watched too many war movies and played with too many gi joe's.

Ever noticed how much the couch warriors like TV shows like that The Unit show. Pure propaganda. And people fall for it.

[acmavm]

5. ?Mensa is highly overrated. I know lots of smart people I

wouldn't let walk my dog. And I am not that fond of the dog.

[Random_Australian]

75. Just so long as not ALL the smart people you know are not dog-banned.

:)

[JuniperLea]

90. Care to define Mensa for me?

I must not get it.



JuniperX

Mensa ID #1144014

[spinbaby]

7. Hey, I think I know him

Good with computer circuitry, stupid with people, listens to Rush.

[Sancho]

8. Even smart people have dumb ideas....

and vice-versa....

[Warpy]

9. Masculinity issues

Stupid's swagger and posturing have sucked a lot of otherwise sensible white males in. Your friend may be one of them.

He may be really good at taking IQ tests, but he's dumb as a doorknob when it comes to real life.

[thoughtanarchist]

10. mind-melded?

The GOP mindwipe machine has been in effect for over 30 years, demonizing liberalism and an ever-expanding group of people who even lean left are portrayed as evil promiscuous horned and hooved satanists who want to burn all american flags and shit in your mom's apple pie on the 4th of july.

Don't underestimate the power of this relentless, insidious message pumped out over corporate media for decades.

[Poll_Blind]

12. IQ means very little in this world we have built for ourselves.

I know a woman who easily entered Mensa something like 3-4 years ago. She has a fabulous IQ- I have no idea what the number is but she is terribly intelligent in that sense. She is also paranoid, an alcoholic, has very very low self-esteem and possibly because of those other has never had a meaningful relationship in her (long) life. I say these things not, in some way, to impugn the character of all persons with a high-tested IQ but to indicate that IQ tests generally identify those who are taking IQ tests and very little else, in my experience.

By the way, I love this person to death- her paranoia, alcoholism and low self-esteem are outweighed by her very, very tender heart which, also, has very little to do with her IQ.

Just some thoughts.

PB

[yella_dawg]

13. Was he a "Jock" in high school?

My mother sends me newspaper clippings, and a recent dispatch included a column from the Fort Worth Star Telegram where the writer proposed that we form patterns in high school that we follow the rest of our lives. The Jocks and bullies become ditto heads and jerks, the nerds and band members become liberals. Given my high school experience, this theory carries some weight.

It is similar to the "fearful wimp who pretends to like the bully" theory a guest on Al Franken recently proposed.

[acmejack]

34. I can believe that, but it omits a lot of people!

All of those who were none of the above. I suppose they comprise the middle, whose votes we battle so furiously for every two years.

[Cyrano]

41. I didn't know him in high school, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a jock.

[Tactical Progressive]

45. Yeah, like jock Karl Rove

jock Ken Mehlman, jock Dan Bartlett, jock Grover Norquist.

I think half of GOP inclination in the smart set is the opposite of jockishness: it's more like resentment from being picked on in high school by jocks, or just being second-class citizens in their youth. The whole mindset is an outgrowth of resentment and the need to strike back and punish others.

More deeply, I don't think that the right-wing mentality is a learned trait by and large. I believe it is nature far more than nurture. Which would explain its intransigence to evidence or reason no matter how obvious.

[The Sleeper]

14. What is the one big thing that he identifies with...

that defines him as a pug ?

Free Markets ?

Personal Responsibility ?

Don't debate him on "the issues"...all you'll get is talking points and RW feelgoodisms.
Attack the logic. At the core, all RW thought is deliberately built on faulty logic...it has to be, because they can't tell the truth. It would destroy them.

If he fancies himself a brainiac, then he might be open to considering examining the validity of the logic....that's your opening...

[Cyrano]

21. Personal responsibility is one of his core beliefs.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlooInBloo]

16. Just plain mean-of-spirit? "You deserve whatever you get" kinda guy?

While totally ignoring history & circumstances?

Such people can benefit greatly from the equivalent of a history degree.

[Cyrano]

24. Hard to say. The "deserve what you get" applies to him. But even

though he didn't major in history, he's pretty knowledgeable about it. Which is one of the things that confounds me. How can any intelligent person who has a good grasp of history go along with our home-grown, ruling fascists?

[LaurenG]

17. It sounds like you are talking about my brother

except that he has now seen the light. He ended up losing his job and suddenly all the judgmental bs that flowed freely from his mouth has ceased. He was never concerned about the environment but now he's working on a project to develop bio fuels.

He had twin girls during this administrations terms and now he can't believe how much he just didn't pay attention to. Plus I wrote him a letter in the summer of 04 detailing the then current atrocities and the run down about what was to come.

He saved my letter and marks off all the crimes I listed as they come to light on bush.

Lol - he thinks I'm really smart now.

[Cyrano]

27. It's too bad that so many have to learn the hard way.

[LaurenG]

51. Yes, your statement made me feel very sad

In certain areas we all choose the hard way but since this is about 6 billion of us it is shameful. I think the pathology surrounding the president and all neo-cons is frightening. They are psychopaths and they are so good at it that if one is republican it sounds fine, until something like Katrina and then the veil is lifted. :cry:

[The Deacon]

18. Yep

Political beliefs are most often formed in infancy before intellectual faculties are fully developed. (My grandfather, a man my whole family idolized, was a New Dealer. My father, a man who has earned the respect of all who know him well, was a Kennedy New Frontier Democrat.) New belief systems can later be developed as adolescent rebellion, most frequently in keeping the most common views of your age cohort. (Yes, I had a Che Guevara tshirt.) For a few, crisis or introspection may lead later in life to forming new political beliefs - but the majority of people never examine those beliefs they took in with their mothers milk. (On retrospect I have moderated my views - I still think the majority of the Liberal Wing of the Democratic Party are a bunch of sell-out cowards, but I'm willing to tolerate their presence as long as they don't get in the way of Progressives who are going to hound the Neo-cons back to whatever rock they oozed out from under.)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. As A Fellow Member Of Mensa, I'll Try And Offer Some Clarity.

The criteria of intellect necessary to gain entry into mensa are fairly straight forward. Intellectual capacity is viewed in the person's ability to use logic, deduction and reasoning to supply the correct answer. The problem is that the concept is one dimensional. There are questions and there are answers. The person showing intellectual prowess throughout the tests or in life in general when confronted with a logical equation, usually can do so without having to inject opinion or personal belief. Mensa, and intellectual studies in general, are straightforward tests of ones ability to solve and understand from a factual perspective.

The problem is, when it comes to politics, even though it could be broken down to a core straightforward equation that would use logic and deduction to solve, it is very rarely viewed that way. Instead, political topics are extremely charged with opinion and personal beliefs and instead of 'solving them' within a fact filled logical basis, are instead generally sided with from an opinionated standpoint with personal beliefs injected. In those cases straight intellectual logical deduction is not cast, but instead the front part of the brain is used, the impulsive part, to forge a different kind of perception: a personal perception.

That is why some of the smartest people you know can say the dumbest things or believe the most ignorant views. If those same views were written straight on paper as a logical equation with any emotional or personal impulses removed, the person could probably derive the correct answer in a heartbeat. But unfortunately that isn't the real world. In the real world there are emotionally charged implications within politics and that trumps the straightforward logically solving part of the brain in many people.

So your friend is probably very intellectual, but he needs to take a step back sometimes and actually spend the time trying to solve the political equation rather than using emotional impulse to arrive at his conclusions. (That's the problem with many in politics. They don't actually take the time to sit down and truly think through a given scenario. Instead, they make up their minds in a nanosecond as to which side they'll agree with. It is an impulsive process. Unfortunately, logic does not thrive in an impulsive realm)

[Bridget Burke]

23. I've known 2 Mensans in my time....

One was a bright, fine gentleman. He'd joined Mensa because he'd rid himself of a destructive habit & was looking for interesting, healthy ways to fill his time. He was great company & I trust he's still doing well.

Another was a flaming asshole of the first water. (Am I mixing metaphors?)

Yes, there are many ways of being "smart." And I'm sure many Mensans can pass real world tests, as well as the IQ tests.

Although I did give a pause when Mensa held its convention in Houston a few years ago. In July! I'm sure that was brief lapse....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Once Upon A Time I Joined Just Because.

I was prodded back in high school to enroll after my testing came back but I was a punk back then and didn't care, so I didn't. But years later I thought ah hell with it, let me take the supervised test again just for the heck of it, to see if I could still pass after all the hits of acid and full fields of pot I've smoked LOL.

I passed and paid the dues for a year, but after that I just stopped. Being a member of mensa really doesn't mean anything, except for couple less bucks at the end of the year. So I guess I shoulda said I'm a former member of mensa LOL

[JuniperLea]

95. I was so nervous before my test...

I smoked a joint... then I thought, WTF?


Hahaha!


I passed. I got in one of those Mary Jane induced uber concentration modes... thankfully.

It's been a very good experience, overall.

[JuniperLea]

94. Mensa headquarters are in Houston

And the gathering is in July.

That being said, the pendulum of intelligence swings an equal distance in both directions.


JuniperX

Mensa ID #1144014

[BlooInBloo]

25. Yup. That's why I suggested history education....

... as potentially especially helpful for such folks... History has a way of breaking folks out of their "I think it would/should go like this..." habits.

[Cyrano]

31. In my friend's case, I think that much of it had to do with environment.

He comes from a hard core Republican family, many of whom still think Nixon was a great man.

I've often tried to discuss his beliefs with him, but as soon as I hit on something that seems to have penetrated his fog, he changes the subject. It's virtually impossible to get him to take that step backward to examine his own beliefs.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Exactly.

It is all based on impulse and conditioning, rather than the time taken logic that would've been used for him to join mensa in the first place. That's the answer right there in a nutshell as to why he could be certain ways and still be a member of mensa.

[Cyrano]

47. Well, not being a shrink, I can choose to either accept or ignore him.

Fortunately, we now live a couple of thousand miles apart and only talk on the phone.

Either way, thanks for the guidance.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

61. Knowledge is realizing that the street is one-way.

Insight is looking both directions anyway.
Wisdom is avoiding the street where the homocidal lunatic keeps running people down in his car.
Irony is reading your post.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. Care To Elaborate?

Don't know what the fuck kind of irony you're talking about.

And for the record, that wouldn't be wisdom by any stretch of the imagination. Wisdom is far deeper than that example. Your example for that would've been better suited in context of 'Common Sense' or 'not being a total friggin brain dead moron'. Not wisdom though. Wisdom is far more involved than simply not being dumb enough to walk down a street with a homocidal maniac running rampant on it, with all due respect.

[Kailassa]

99. Wisdom is not measured by IQ tests, and is useless without courage.

Wisdom can mean knowing how to walk up to that homicidal maniac and calm him down, turning the situation around to keep everyone safe, and to help the "maniac" get over his problem.

Often events have a fulcrum, a seemingly unimportant detail that major mechanics of the event radiate from. If you can find that fulcrum, you don't have to do a great deal to turn an event around.

With a person going berserk in public, threatening or even killing others, the fulcrum of the situation is sometimes merely that they don't know how to stop and have a cry. They are experiencing more anguish than they can bear, so feel a need to end everything. And, in their anger, they externalize their suicidal urges, and ty to kill others instead.

I've had a few "maniacs" crying in my arms after simply walking up to them, ignoring their bullshit, looking them in the eye and asking them to tell me why they are going to do what they plan to do.

Of course this is in Australia, where our maniacs very rarely carry guns.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

83. And Based On Your Posts,

I have serious doubts that you would've passed anyway, with all due respect.

[Alcibiades]

22. Political sociology

Would have a couple of explanations for this. The best is based on the primacy principle, that what is learned earliest is learned best. Probably the person responsible for his earliest political socialization--usually, but not always, a parent--had whacked-out rightwing views on politics. Even today, most people tend to belong to the same political party as their parents (contrary to much conventional wisdom, which is that most folks tend to rebel against their parents, which may be true for some folks, but not most folks asked in polls on the subject.) Some wingnut got ahold of this young man early enough to convert him to life.

Marxists would have a different explanation: false consciousness. In a similar vein, there's the Stockholm syndrome. This man may have become trapped in the ideology of his oppressor, like an abused spouse or a hostage.

[DURHAM D]

26. My observation - very bright folks are often outliers.

They can't help it - they just are.

[dysfunctional press]

29. people who go through the trouble of joining mensa

are pretty much self-aggrandizing pricks, with not much actual common-sense anyway.

[JuniperLea]

96. Thanks for the lovely compliment

JuniperX

Mensa ID #1144014

[uppityperson]

30. People are ruled by their emotions, intellect follows emotions

My theory is that people are ruled by their emotions, then figure out intellectual reasons to support how they feel. It is done unconciously and very quickly, most people most of the time don't know they are doing this. As far as having 2 brains, physiologically we do. Our reptilian brain is deep within our skull, doing nothing but helping us survive, hence the emotional factor ruling over all. Outside of that reptilian brain is the bird brain, doing a bit more higher functioning, still on an emotional level but with a bit of higher thought there. Then we get to the monkey brain, intellectual, thinking, pondering, experimenting.

Some people like to think they are intellectual, but the emotional still rules underneath.

[immoderate]

32. The power of rationalization.

He is spinning himself, and maybe he is brilliant at it.

--IMM

[Swamp Rat]

33. Mensa...

:rofl:

AD INFINITUM

[RethugAssKicker]

35. He believes in American Exceptionalism !

America can do no wrong !

[Cyrano]

38. You may have something there. I remember that he went along with

that "freedom fries" bullshit when France told us to take our war and shove it.

I think that was the one time I actually questioned his sanity. When an intelligent person buys into that "freedom fries" crap, maybe he really is a fugitive from "Deliverance," sitting on a porch playing a banjo.

[Jim__]

39. I can't really offer an explanation; but I think we are all a lot less

rational than we believe.

It is extremely hard to change your mind about something you believe in, especially if you have an emotional commitment to that belief. If your friend believed in Bush in 2000, especially if he was a Clinton hater; then changing his mind about Bush may be extremely difficult.

Personally, I can't imagine a worse president than Bush. But, I felt that way before he was ever elected. If peace and democracy broke out across the Middle East tomorrow(I know it's not going to) I'm not sure I could give Bush any credit for it.

I disagreed with Clinton about the bombing of Kosovo, the embargo against Iraq, the repeated bombings of Iraq, the lies about Monica. But, I supported him to the end. Is that because I rationally believed that he was still better than any likely alternative; or just because I had an emotionally backed belief in him? I'd like to think it is for ratinal reasons; but, I'm not really sure.

[NightOwwl]

40. My friend's Republican husband....

also thinks Bush is an imbecile. The smart ones realize this, yet they don't give a rat's ass. They know Cheney is the one running the country and they approve.

BTW, I think my friend is a closet Republican, but she knows better than to admit this in my presence.

[EC]

42. goes to show that intelligence

doesn't equate empathy and social conscience...

[porphyrian]

43. Genius doesn't prevent denial, insanity, emotional problems...

...or immaturaty. I'm proof, heh heh.

[LunaC]

44. Big brain - no soul n/t

[sendero]

46. I've known....

.. plenty of people with high IQ (as measured by the sorts of pattern and logic tests issued by mensa) who couldn't find their own ass with both hands.

There are many flavors of intelligence, you need some of a bunch of them to be "smart".

[rock]

48. An encyclopedia knows a lot of facts

But I don't expect it to think.

[man4allcats]

49. Unfortunately, brilliant often equals arrogant.

A fair percentage of the few genius types I have known have worshiped only intellect and a Malthusian version of natural selection as in; for example, "the victims of Katrina should have been more self-sufficient." People of privilege, whether intellectual or economic or both, often have no concept of or consideration for the rest of the bell-shaped curve; i.e., they are not infrequently defined by their arrogance.

[nealmhughes]

50. "Intelligence" per se is a very relative thing.

Take someone who can decline every obscure Sanskrit and Latin and Greek noun but can't balance their checkbook or change the oil in their car. Take someone who "knows" a lot of "stuff" but can't connect on an emotional level to any art. "Knowing" "stuff" in and of itself is only good for one in grade, middle and high school or to get a repeat appearence on Jeopardy. An inability to see patterns that aren't mathematical turns one into the equiivalent of a mechanical trnaslation device -- the words come out from one language to the other, but lose all semblence of natural speech.
Being stupid is probably good, in the long run, except for those who get taken advantage of as a result. As long as a person has a good heart, intelligence means very little in the long run of their lives.
What is sad is that some people, smart, dumb, or middling stop thinking and feeling and never question anything, rather accepting everything at face value or lets others do the thinking for them.
I once counselled a college freshman. He was on a football scholarship and did not remotely meet the team's standards or the academic standards of the univesity. He was my favorite student that semester. He frequently was in hospital for injuries or at rehab and missed a lot of classes. I told him if he wanted to come over to my house and study and hang out with us, he was welcome, that he could have the attention of three Ph.D. students if he wanted it. Why did we do it? Because he was NICE. He was friendly and helpful to everyone and had a good heart. We didn't treat him as a failed football hero, but as a nice kid who was lonely and a had never had anyone take an interest in his academics. He thought he was "dumb." I told him, "No, you're not dumb. Just noone ever bothered to care about your grades, your reading skills or your writing before. They saw you as a piece of meat."
He got dropped from the team, but in a year was on track with his grades after a major eruption from the A&S faculty came to his defense when the university tried to drop his scholarship after they effectively destroyed him emotionally and physically. He is a great kid, and I see him every once in a while even though he lives in Tuscaloosa and I have moved from there. His dad told me once that "He ain't dumb after all. Thank you Mr. Hughes for taking an interest in him. He was ready to drop out of college and go to truck driving school like me...Now he is getting ready to go to work for a satellite company as a troubleshooter for their transmission dishes."
That kid may not be able to remember the difference between there and their and want to put apostrophes after nouns to make plurals, but he ain't dumb and he is happy and he has a great job now. He graduated 22 May.

[susanna]

76. I love this, from your post...

"An inability to see patterns that aren't mathematical turns one into the equivalent of a mechanical trnaslation device -- the words come out from one language to the other, but lose all semblence of natural speech."

Do you mean logical - or mathematical - patterns here? The reason I ask...

I see patterns. See them everywhere. that said, the very LAST place I see them is mathematically. I can honestly say that I have a high emotional intelligence, and the reason is because I see emotional patterns...always have. I also see other patterns, besides the obviously logical (which I am still quite good at). When I take right/left brain tests, I come out squarely in the middle. I do not rely on one side or another.

That said, I think that the ability to pattern, IMHO, is what makes human beings. The crux of the matter is that we all pattern differently. THAT is where it gets edgy.

[mnhtnbb]

52. Intelligence is no substitute for empathy, compassion,

or concern for truth and justice. Your friend may be "smart" but lacking in the qualities that make him care about his fellow human beings.

[patcox2]

53. How long has he been an atheist?

he he

[KyuzoGator]

54. I know a brilliant guy who also thinks Bush is infallible.

He's extremely intelligent, owns several innovative technical patents, and is middle-class. I talked to him once about the possibility of election manipulation with electronic voting machines, and he dismissed it as though it were mathematically impossible and I was a lunatic.

Him: "We trust ATM machines with our money."

Me: "Yeah, but ATM machines give you a receipt."

Him: "But elections don't need a receipt. It's a waste of paper."

Jesus.

[blm]

55. Ask him if he can wrap his mind about what went on in BCCI and why

Poppy Bush would have worked so hard to protect the terror networks operating through BCCI for all those years.

Google could help him out on that = BCCI Bush Bin Laden Pakistan

[Ilsa]

56. Sounds like someone I knew ages ago that is an accountant.

Thought he knew everything because he passed the CPA exam and was a member of MENSA. I think he bought into the economics of the GOP. These types cannot admit any error.

[LibertyorDeath]

57. Some are so smart they're socially Retarded

He seems to fall into this category.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

58. Bobby Fischer, (chess champion) who is undoubtedly brilliant, at least

in that sphere, is a weird unpleasant guy with bigoted Antisemitic beliefs. Despite the fact that his mother was Jewish. No accounting for people's minds.

http://www.forward.com/main/printer-friendly.php?ref=popper200407211120

[GOTV]

59. Ask your friend...

... he's the only one that knows.

[degreesofgray]

60. So he's intelligent but uninformed

and there are many more like him.

[lildreamer316]

62. That stuff about an emotional I.Q? It's pretty true.

Life experience counts just as much as anything else..........

[Heidi]

91. Right on.

You said it, sister. :thumbsup:

[lonestarnot]

63. Inculcated beliefs are difficult to overcome. He comes from a repuke

background, family.

[gulliver]

65. I'm in Mensa.

Your friend is probably one of the dumb ones. It's not the only explanation, but there's Occam's Razor so...

As I posted before when you first posted about your friend's malady, I tend to doubt he is really as brilliant as you say. He may be lying about being in Mensa. Ask to see his card. Bet he doesn't have one. (I'm only assuming he exists for the sake of argument.)

The Mensa magazine you get when you join the organization has its share of crazies in the (huge) letter section. Cheney may be Mensa caliber and may be brilliant, but the SOB is batshit crazy.

[Kurovski]

66. You forgot one possibility...is your Friend a closet-case?

Any indications or clues in that department?

[kiahzero]

67. High IQ !-> Political Awareness

Just because he has the capability to be a genius doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

[Gloria]

68. When I was very active in Mensa way back in the 70's I found

many of the younger guys emotionally immature at best. Smart as hell, esp. the computer nerds, but socially inept. With no clear understanding of how human beings work, I could see how that type would fall for the Republican line.

I've just rejoined and now with the "older crowd" the liberals avoid talking politics with some of the old RW crazies....

[McCamy Taylor]

69. He is Paul Wolfowitz?

Wolfowitz fancies himself the intellectual equal of his dad (who apparently is a pretty sharp mathematician), but he believes that you can knock down the government of a country and a new one will miraculously spring up from the desert soil to take its place. He believes that all countries in the world will choose to share the fruits of their labor with the United States unless the Soviet Union or China is actually occupying them, just because we are "good guys."

Paul Wolfowitz believes that he can deduce the workings of the human heart from calculating pi to 20 digits. This is because Paul Wolfowitz is an idiot savant. There are a lot of them in the world of MENSA. They can do one thing well, and usually that one thing is taking tests.

[Vexatious Ape]

71. Sometimes smart people

get infected with really dumb ass memes, and sometimes they are just brainwashed from the get go that America can do no wrong and that the President is truly the leader of the free world. A crock of shit but very common belief.

[kath]

72. 20 to 1 he's a closet bigot.

People can be pretty good at hiding their racism, homophobia, etc.
The line in your post "he also believes that the victims of Katrina should have been more self-sufficient" is a "tell". methinks.

I'd bet (assuming you and he are white) that if you showed him a photo of your lovely teenage daughter or niece with a black prom date, or a photo of an obviously biracial child and said it was your grandchild, that he'd freak out (he might try to hide it though). Or better yet, how would he react if you said you knew a great guy for his daughter to go out with, then the guy showed up and he was black??

[Freedom_Aflaim]

73. Some of the "dumbest" people I know are Mensa

life stupid, education smart. that is.

[Mr_Spock]

74. Some people will die with a brain full of worthless information

This person is obviously cursed with smartness that they are clearly unable to use for anything good.

Sounds like someone who should volunteer to become Soilent Green.

[Canuckistanian]

77. High IQ, low EQ

Emotional Quotient.

Sometimes, people of great intellect are stubborn to a fault and hate to admit failure.

Just because you're a towering genius, it doesn't automatically follow that you understand the motives and foibles of other human beings.

[Dan]

78. Rainman?

[Bossy Monkey]

81. MENSA membership just means that you do well on standardized tests; not

that you have any particular skill at comprehending reality. Apparently, he lacks the latter.

[557188]

82. You can't test intelligece

The first thing you learn in Sociology is you can't test intelligence. All IQ tests are junk as they are all designed for specific results. IQ tests are bias for the dominate culture. I don't feel like going through the whole reason, but god, I still can't believe people believe them. Hooray Bell Curve!

MENSA as a result is an organization that has no legitimacy in regards to being smart. It's a circle jerk of people that test well on certain subjects that don't even relate to politics!

Politics is something people study for YEARS. There is a reason why people get Doctorates in Poli Sci, and there is a reason why most Poli Sci people don't discuss politics with people outside academia.

[JuniperLea]

97. "test well on certain subjects"

This one quote proves you no nothing about IQ tests.

Your snarky Mensa comment proves you know nothing about Mensa.

[Hekate]

84. Mensans are human beings,like DUers, & human beings have their quirks

A lot of bright people live in their heads and are very very rational. That doesn't mean they are completely connected to the rest of the world. It does mean that on issues where reasonable people may disagree, a very rational, logical bright person can follow an idea to a far-flung conclusion. They convince themselves -- just as you do -- but it's harder than hell to dislodge them. All the evidence points to their conclusion.

The above doesn't even begin to explain it all.

Thanks to Mensa I have made some of the dearest and kindest friends of my life. I'm never afraid of speaking my mind and being thought weird. The conversation is nearly always interesting -- we find so many subjects to be of interest. My first husband ran out of things to say after a couple of years, and as far as he was concerned our conversation was over. With my second-and-final husband, whom I met at Mensa, the conversation is still going on after more than 25 years.

We have a certain percentage of people who are differently-abled in the social graces department; thanks to the education I've received here at DU, I suspect some of those are Aspies. It's okay with us. The funny thing is, nearly all of us suffered in high school and we have not forgotten how it feels -- it makes us very tolerant.

I've met a couple of real jerks at Mensa over the years, but the world at large has jerks in it too.

I'm sorry about your friend. Try backing off politics. You won't convince him. His political views are not a function of his intelligence one way or the other, but of the world view he brings to it in the first place.

Peace.

Hekate

[BlackVelvet04]

85. Nationalism is our form of incest,

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. ''Patriotism'' is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by ''patriotism'' I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spiritual as much as with its material welfare --never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.
Author: Erich Fromm 1900-1980, American Psychologist

[gulliver]

86. Cheney and Bush are gifted, by the way.

Cheney poses as an intelluctual with gravity extremely well. He is playing a role that other people are hard-coded to accept: an older man with gravitas. Much like a virus, Cheney uses an external coating to get past people's mental immune system which would otherwise identify him as what he is: a mean, lying, sack of shit. A wolf in the fold.

Bush is also gifted. As with Cheney, Bush is much like a virus. His style fools the immune system of people who are susceptible. He penetrates and exploits their mental security apparatus. Some people have a wide open security flaw, for example. They'll accept anyone who holds up a cross, wears a flag pin, or hates who they hate. Easy pickings for a guy like Bush.

Bush and Cheney are gifted, but they could never make it into Mensa. Bush and Cheney are common con men. Skilled and talented they are. Smart they aren't.

[rman]

87. He's not intelligent enough to understand democracy

Otherwise he wouldn't think that 'the leader of the nation' can do no wrong.

If he does know Bush is dumb then why does he believe what Bush says? (ie "war in Iraq is stabilizing the world").

[peekaloo]

88. Even a brainy head up the ass is still a head up the ass.

[JuniperLea]

89. A high IQ does not guarantee a pleasing personality

Or that the person knows everything.

Mensa is an organization. The only requirement is that your IQ is in the top 2%. It doesn't guarantee anything beyond that. It does not dictate political affiliation or personal belief systems.

Cheney is brilliant. He's an evil genius.

JuniperX

Mensa ID #1144014

[Phx_Dem]

92. Easy one--cognitive dissonance..

your friend has too much invested in his beliefs to let facts get in the way.

[Usrename]

98. Too much emotional investment.

This is the best description I have found.

• There are some who object to war because of its immorality, there are some who shrink from the arbitrament of arms because of its increased cruelty and barbarity; there are a growing number who protest against this method, at the outset known to be unsuccessful, of attempting to settle international disputes because of its imbecility and futility. But there is not a living soul in any country who does not deeply resent having his passions roused, his indignation inflamed, his patriotism exploited, and his highest ideals desecrated by concealment, subterfuge, fraud, falsehood, trickery, and deliberate lying on the part of those in whom he is taught to repose confidence and to whom he is enjoined to pay respect. - Arthur Ponsonby