I wonder what America would've been like if we hadn't lost 58,000 men?

[mopaul]

during the vietnam war? just think of all the wonderful lives thrown away for nothing and think of all the doctors, cures, literature, movies, and presidents we lost. not to mention the 58,000 families without fathers, brothers, and sons.

now look at us, doing it all over again.

[dchill]

1. Not ot mention...

the hundreds of thousands who came back "damaged" in one way or another.

[Iris]

3. Yep. The lost potential there stares us right in the face every day.

Especially in urban areas with large homeless populations.

[Crunchy Frog]

2. Doesn't seem like we learned anything from those losses.

It would make them more meaningful if we actually had gained some collective wisdom from them.

[hlthe2b]

4. yes how very different would be the lives of allthose

58,000 family members...So very very sad. What a horrendous waste.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

5. It was a horrible thing . . .

. . . and as a teenager I was reading the KC Star everyday, thinking, "Am I going to go get my legs blown off there, in a couple years?" I remember it as clearly as yesterday, yet so few of us came away with the clear understanding that "We must never let this happen again."

So here we are. And instead of girls with "POW bracelets" and millions of young people angry at the government for putting men and women in harms way for no good reason, mostly I just see apathy.

We have to keep the memory of those 58,000 alive. This bullshit has got to stop.

Get out into the street--protest the SOTU!!!

[EuroObserver]

10. Welcome to the reality Europe

(, eurasia, and most of the rest of the world) learned from these two, three, four, five, six generations...

[sweettater]

6. considering I lost my beloved brother

in Vietnam it is hard for me to accept it was "for nothing" although I know it is true. He was destined for great things. As an officer and helicopter pilot he was always striving to be the best he could be. I often wonder if he were still alive where he would be in life. Sad thing is my mother was never the same after his death. Her first born. I am so sorry for the family members of our troops in Iraq. Excuse me while I dry a tear.

Thanks for this post. Sometimes you need to remember even if it is heartbreaking.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

7. .

:grouphug:

[sweettater]

9. thank you

you are very kind :hug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. We wouldn't have that real swell monument and revisionist history.

And, Iraq will provide us with another one to inspire the next little venture into colonialism.

[Jose Diablo]

11. Well, GW senior had a names for those

He called them OFU's, that is 'One Fodder Unit'. Go beyond all the patriotism/nationalism, the grandstanding by the politicians, the ministers blowing smoke-up everyone's butt about ridding the world of evil and it comes down to just a lot of young people killed to enrich the wealthy even more.

I am reminded of the prologue to King Edward II, a play by Blake:

"Oh for a voice like thunder and a tongue to drown the the throat of war!
When the senses are shaken, and the soul is driven to madness,
Who can stand?

When the souls of the oppressed fight in the troubled air that rages,
Who can stand?

When the whirlwind of fury comes from the throne of God,
When the frowns of His countenance drive the nations together,
Who can stand?

When Sin claps it's broad wings over the battle.
And sails rejoicing in a flood of death;
When souls are torn to everlasting fire,
And fiends of Hell rejoice upon the slain.
Who can stand?

Oh who has caused this?
Who can answer at the throne of God?

The Kings and the Nobles of the Land have done it!
Hear it not heaven, Thy ministers have done it!"


You see, very few of the 'Nobles, Kings or Ministers' really give a shit about the ones that will die fighting all these wars they cause. Sure they get-up on platforms and make eloquent speeches that further their own selfish agenda, even bringing tears to peoples eyes. And there is those very patriotic songs pumped out over the air, makes people feel good. And the Senators, those big blowhards with investments of the war factories, they make the best speeches. But you can be sure, none of them ever pay the price. OFU's is what the fallen are called. In a sense, a sacrifice of the firstborn to Moloch, for prosperity. Killing the firstborn to satisfy a God we make.

It's class warfare, thats the real war. Think of it as thinning the opposition. The war is actually the wealthy and powerful against 'the people'. For anyone that remembers, bring-up in your memory all the movie clips of WWII played for us young boomers, the comic books, the lack of good history teaching. It's all about conditioning 'the people' to fight wars for these guys. We have been played and suckered. And it goes on, generation after generation after generation. A very old game. And for some, they learn to love killing, thats the darker side of human nature.

You want evil? There it is.

[stillcool]

12. Kind of makes me question the whole....

evolution thing. My dad came back from WWII AFU...and among his buddies were quite a few suicides. The only ones to learn the lessons do so the hard way.