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If you could go back in time and coach the "founders",

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:04 PM
Original message
If you could go back in time and coach the "founders",
Edited on Sat Jan-14-06 06:06 PM by SoCalDem
what advice would you give them?

I would want them to spell things out a bit better.. The unfortunate thing is that when they wrote the documents, I think they gave us more credit than we deserve. I have a sneaky suspicion that they thought our changing times would give us insights and make changes obvious. They surely could never have guessed that a bunch of doltish literalists would seize control and would interpret their words so narrowly.

I would also suggest to them that they insert some language that would require a complete overhaul of the constitutio0n every 50 years, to cut out the irrelevant parts and update the rest..

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. This could be fun. Let me think for awhile... n/t
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'd tell John Adams
that though a strong central government is a good idea, there has to be some sort of mechanism to make sure the President can never become a king-perhaps something about the right of Congress only to declare war to be inalianable-no "resolutions" could do the trick. Also I'd say, "Cousin, has it ever occurred to you that political parties might arise? You'd better be thinking that way, because they will-can you tinker with things a bit so that it will be easier to have multiple parties that are forced to form coaltions in order for things to work? If you do, you might get more than one term in office...."
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think you would need to explain to Adams
how weak-kneed and jelly like the Senate and Congress has become in the name of re-election. Which I think is the root of the imbalance of power.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. John Adams would be ashamed
of many who serve in Congress now, I think. To serve back then was taken to be a noble sacrifice, not a trough at which to feed.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Personally
I think he would suggest hanging just about all of them. Including the big idiot in the WH.
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. declaring war
Edited on Sat Jan-14-06 07:10 PM by justabob
In the Constitution it says that Congress cannot take a pass on declaring war and let someone else do it - obviously not in those words, I'll get the proper quote. The problem is that pesky War Powers Resolution that was been abused. If we can get rid of that, then it goes back to Congress as it should.

on edit: I can't find the passage I was looking for so maybe I am remebering wrong, but I looked this up back before the Iraq invasion and remember it so clearly. Rightly or wrongly, I am really feeling a bit like one of the animals in Animal Farm.... I guess forget what I said.
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jrd200x Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. There are so many things ... but here are the top ones
1 - Make the 2nd Amendment more clear. It's muddy and easily misinterpeted
2 - Dump the electoral college and vote all officials in by popular vote
3 - Make the congress part-time and volunteer, not salaried
4 - Make it harder to impeach so to avoid a Clinton experience
5 - Anticpate the way money would corrupt the election process and account for it in the constitution
6 - Finally, and MOST IMPRORTANT: another amemndement in the Bill of Rights that directly addresses Privacy, Property Rights, and decisions of dying, medical procedures
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'd want them to spell out things
like civil liberties, separation of church and state, and privacy rights unambiguously in the Constitution. I would also ask them to be more clear on the meaning of the second amendment. In addition, I would warn them about the rise of corporate power, and advise them to put some major checks on that.

I would warn them that people would be getting stupider as time went on, so would need things spelled out very clearly to prevent them from misinterpreting the Consitution to the exact opposite of what was intended.

That's what I can think of off the bat.
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. It is vague on purpose
Edited on Sat Jan-14-06 06:27 PM by justabob
so that there would be no need to overhaul all the time. Yeah, interpretation is a bitch, but most of it is clear enough. Take a look at some states' Constitutions.... Texas I am familiar with. They spelled everything out to the letter and it is very rigid very , very rigid... the result? Several hundred amendments to make small changes to get around the rigidity of the original... well, not the original, but the one we have had since the civil war.

Maybe I am crazy, but I think the Constituion is a masterpiece of thought and foresight. I know in the beginning women weren't recognized, likewise there is the big problem of slavery. I don't discount those things, but it has been corrected through ammendments, and now respresents us pretty well. The Founders made a point of an informed electorate and consent of the governed. The only thing that I would tell them is that they might have mentioned voting properly so we don't have Scalias saying that nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about voting. But other than that I wish the Constitution would be enforced. Its like so many other things... we have a great many laws that are not enforced. The trouble here it that the People have failed. Bitter pill to swallow, but if the People had been keeping up their end of the bargain, we would not be in this mess. The Founders said over and over that it is the DUTY of the citizen to keep informed and hold their leaders accountable. (on edit) The Constitution is only as strong as the People make it. It is up to us... you and me and all our neighbors to stand up for the Constitution. If we are not willing to do that we will have given our tacit consent to form a new government which is where we are.(/edit)

I know a lot has happened and that the citizens have been played and duped, BUT the Founders did warn us. Ben Franklin said we have a republic for as long as we can keep it... roughly paraphrased.
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mojavegreen Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Constitutional updates
Edited on Sat Jan-14-06 07:03 PM by mojavegreen
There are all sorts of updates and corrections one could imagine, but here a few:

1. Limit the power of the judiciary at all levels, and require a more rigid test of proof. Allow grand juries or tribunals, panels, to investigate civil and criminal cases.

2. Create more stringent anti-trust and anti monopoly laws. At some point the Feds should break up Microsofts and Walmarts. Or something to that effect.

3. Restrict religious groups from wielding excessive power. Or unions for that matter.

4. Enact restrictions on "local control".

5. Provide some general economic rights.

6. Create a statute that requires all police officers to wear tasteful skirts provided by the State, not above their knees.

7. Allow for the funding of a Federal Department of Cannabis. Put the homies to work, y'all.

8. Establish the "Tomb of the Unknown Hipster" National Monument, located somewhere on Highway 1.

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Washington would agree with you on 7, I think
since it is known he grew hemp. Don't know what use he put it to, but he'd realize it is stupid to outlaw such a useful crop.
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. Go here: A More Perfect Union: The Creation of the U.S. Constitution
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_history.html

You might find it difficult to coach them on anything. The Constitutional Convention was in danger of falling apart several times due to various regional interests.

The first thing that would have to be addressed would be slavery.

Perhaps you could sway the Continental Congress which passed the Declaration of Independence and/or the Contitutional Convention to abolish slavery by showing them graphic photographs as well as statistics of the destruction of the Civil War. Point out to the representatives that their grandchildren would lead, fight, and die in that war and you might make a dent in that problem.

But then again, given the nonnegotiable status given slavery by some members of some southern delegation, the effect might well be adverse.

There were more than just a few members of that Constitutional Convention who were brilliant and wise beyond their times. There were also enough of those who were obdurate and unwilling or unable to see beyond their own interests.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. Put an explicit right to privacy
in the Bill of Rights. And I'm sure we could clarify a few other things too, like the 2nd Amendment.
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C_eh_N_eh_D_eh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, call me a cynic, but...
I'd tell Jefferson: "In a couple of centuries, people will be arguing that your words apply equally to women, blacks, and homosexuals. If you have a problem with any of that, you'd better say so now."

I've always had my suspicions about how liberal ol' Tom really was; he may have been a radical for his time, but frankly that isn't saying much. And although I detest bigots, be they individuals or nations, I think they're a lot easier to deal with if they're up front about it.
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prescole Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'd tell them to listen to people a lot smarter than I am! nt
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A Simple Game Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. If I could go back in time,
I would send Jimmy Carter in my place.

He would have a better chance of persuading them of future mistakes.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. explain to jefferson that we now use
the word "privacy" as our right to be secure in our homes and be free of interference in the legal pursuits outside out homes not the word for using the outhouse or chamber pot.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-15-06 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. I think they did just about as good a job as possible for the time...
the one change I would suggest is that a super majority vote be required in the Senate to pass a law on to the President and a simple majority in both houses would repeal a law.
Oh yes, please define militia...
and prohibit congress from delegating or abrogating its primary duties listed in section 8 of the Constitution.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-15-06 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. don't forget to take the video iPod ...
A few clips of Bush making flippant "dictatorship" remarks would probably galvanize them. (Don't forget to bring a few boxes of Kleenex and some barf bags too, because people might start crying and even feel like throwing up.)
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-15-06 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. I would caution them against
making the Roman Republic, while modified by Enlightenment ideals, the basis of the federal government. We all know what happened after those wheels turned after a few centuries.
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