Regarding the Stossel Report

[Fountain79]

While I am sure many had issues with the report that John Stossel ran last night, there are some legitimate questions that I think should be raised. Why is it, at least according to various reports, that American student underperform other countries? Why is it that some countries that spend less per student outperform our students? Why is it that, at least in appearance anyway, that most engineering and technical fields at the university level are dominated by foreign students at our universities?

[spindrifter]

1. Why is it

that you can send homework assignments with the kids, and they don't get done? Why do teachers become behavior monitors for an unbelieveable number of kids? Why do some parents never make it to a teacher conference? Why do some parents expect that the schools will take over as soon as the kid is old enough to be there? Why is it some kids come to school dressed like they were going to try-outs at a strip club? Why is it some parents resent the fact that the kid might surpass them academically?

[Fountain79]

3. Perhaps I should have prefaced this...

by saying that I am a teacher myself.

Why is that you can send homework assignments with the kids, and they don't get done?

Fail them.

Why do teachers become behavior monitors for an unbelievable number of kids?

Cause idiots are reproducing.

Why do some parents never make it to a teacher conference?

see above

Why is it some kids come to school dressed like they were going to try-outs at a strip club?

I'm all for school uniforms.

Why is it some parents resent the fact that the kid might surpass them academically?

See second answer.

[sandnsea]

7. As a parent

that made me feel all warm and fuzzy and ready to have a parent teacher conference with you. :sarcasm:

[Fountain79]

11. it has begun

sigh.....


Perhaps I was a little too harsh, but I do think there is a degree of coddling that goes on in our schools that needs to stop, even in my case. Some students need to realize that there are consequences for actions or inactions. If they don't realize that then they will be in a world of hurt later on in life. I do stand by the idea of school uniforms, what is allowed in schools today is ridiculous in regards to clothing.

[sandnsea]

20. A standard of academic excellence

The school creates it. I have seen a number of schools and the principal sets the tone. The school creates the parent/school relationship in 100 different ways, and it always starts with respect. A consistent behavior program isn't that tough to implement. I've seen them work in migrant schools and upper income schools. And seen total chaos and apathy in both too. I've seen teachers fight the principal's efforts to bring the parents into the structure, and seen teachers support it. When everything clicks, you've got a top school. Any one ingredient can be missing to have a successful school. But when two are missing, no amount of effort by the third leg can fix it.

[brokensymmetry]

35. Really?

I teach at the university level. It's a large, public university.

The standard for cheating is "don't ask, don't tell." Cheating is accepted.

The State Board of Regents has determined that a student cannot be expelled from class for any reason. That's right - no matter how disruptive the student is, the various universities cannot remove them.

Can you flunk students? Sure! Just don't expect to get tenure.

The foreign students, whether from China or Nigeria have a strong work ethic. They master the lessons with ease. Our U.S. students can't be bothered with such requirements. Any effort to impose standards results in a parent calling up the staff and screaming threats and insults.

There will be a feast of consequences. And I, bitter fellow that I am, intend to enjoy the show.

I suggest you do likewise.

[seabeyond]

55. DONT be too harsh on the parent. no way.

because of these parents NOT doing their job we seem to have a consensus that teacher has the right and obligation to do my job. so many parents has handed over their parenting to other institutions. i say a HUGE no. this is my job back off. but because there are so many parents not doing their job, it creates a challenge for me wrestling control from others, to do my job.

i absolutely support the teachers and the struggles they have with students who just are not motivated or disciplined or challenged in the school environment.

i dont know why the kids are not scientifically motivated. i have my suspicions. we read, we discuss, we challenge the world in our house. we do huge think. but my children, all of them, have a soft life. and the actual work is so scary to them. to actually have to work the brain. they are bright so they have been able to go thru most of school without a lot of challenge, or real brain work. after two schools i have finally found a school where they demand, have high expectation, success is insisted on. my child had a high b in math, but on the pre state test made a high c. they stuck him in tutoring for two months. came out with an A on that test last week and now doesn't have to do tutoring. we did NOT look at tutoring as a punishment. we saw it as a privilege.

i have seen this school do something a lot of schools dont/cant do. but economically it is in an environment where there is high support of the parent with the principle.

i just had a thread where brother told me my son read too much. that he should be allowed to be a kid. his family says, i dont read, and they aren't embarrassed. in the past kids had to work in order for families to make it. today kids dont "work" and dont learn how to work. i have seen it in the young adults we hire for business. reality, we are too soft on our kids, as we insist they learn at two about pedophiles and how to keep themselves safe, drugs, sex.... teaching them how to keep self safe, instead of the parent accepting it as their job to keep kid safe. we throw all this garbage on them to figure out, poverty, abortion, gays (fundie churches), divorce families, vast info from internet........ learn to be an adult at 5, yet not teach them how to be an adult. the tools. like how to work. having the foundation and security in their environment so they can spend youth learning how to

also, the smart kid isn't appreciated in todays system

but, bottom line..... i give it to the parent myself

[bahrbearian]

27. Don't forget, to wear your uniform.

[Fountain79]

32. Sounds better than....

"Don't forget to wear your jeans that sag past your ass and/or the shirt that barely covers your belly button."

[bahrbearian]

33. Seig Heil !

[Fountain79]

34. Could you possibly...

Intelligently argue this point without using ridiculous Nazi expressions?

[mikelewis]

49. Wearing a uniform is not fascism...

My children wear uniforms to school and it has not turned them into little Nazi's nor impaired thier self-expression. Communists, Democtrats and Republicans wear uniforms too. It's in-breeding that creates fascism, not clothes.

[knitter4democracy]

54. I used to be against uniforms, too.

Then I taught in Catholic schools. I found that the students still find ways to express their individuality but also that they helped cover the differences in socioeconomic status enough for the kids to get past it.

It's not that the kids don't know who's rich and who isn't. It's that it's not quite as in their faces as it is in non-uniform schools.

Have you read any uniform codes lately? They have many, many choices for both the boys and the girls, and there are always loopholes in there as well. For example, at my daughter's Catholic school, the kids can wear any shoes they want (but need tennis shoes for gym days--any kind of tennis shoes, even the ones with lights or whatever) and have a good bit of freedom on combos of shirts and pants and such. They wrote the uniform code that way so that anyone can afford it, not having to buy only from one place or another or have dress shoes and tennis shoes.

They also have a used uniform store in the basement where people donate clothes their kids have grown out of for other parents to buy extremely cheap. I never worked in a public school that helped that much with clothing.

[WinkyDink]

15. Then your principal differs from my former one.

HE made us (high school) teachers re-teach any failed student UNTIL THEY PASSED, even though, if it was first semester (we're on a 2-semester, 4-block-day stem, begin anew in January), it meant simultaneously teaching new students AND old!
"Studying" is a foreign concept; the students figure they had better "get it" immediately, or the TEACHER is failing!
Bah. I'm glad to be rid of it.
(Master's plus, here. I think I knew my subject.)

[Fountain79]

16. Master's here

Plus I scored a 195 on the Praxis in Social Studies and a 181 on the Praxis in Spanish. I am pretty confident in my knowledge too.

[renate]

51. As a parent

I want to give you a raise.

(The "idiots are reproducing" part may be a wee bit harsh, UNLESS what you meant by "idiots" is "people who don't care about their kids" rather than "people who are doing their best despite having had a poor upbringing and education themselves," which I'm sure is what you meant... the part about teachers becoming behavior monitors for kids, OMG I agree. I volunteer in my kids' school and oh, my gosh, the behavior I see. It's totally not fair to ask teachers to do for 30 or, in the higher grades, hundreds of kids what parents aren't willing to do for their own one or two or three. I think these parents are the exception but they do exist and their unfortunate, lost, miserable kids make a hugely disproportionate amount of trouble in school and they make teachers' lives unfairly difficult.)

I think teachers are the salt of the earth. I literally cannot say enough about teachers who care. I am crying as I type this because I am so moved by the goodness of people who go into teaching because they want to help kids... my scholastically uninterested though in other ways fabulous, sensitive, loving child has been blessed by (I can count them) four teachers who, I think, have a true calling to teach, and I cannot possibly express my gratitude to them. And my child is but one of many whose lives they bless... they've made such a difference to him, and they do it for other kids year after year after year.

[NanceGreggs]

4. And why is it that the parents are at fault ...

... and not the teachers, many of whom don't have a CLUE as to the subject they're supposed to be teaching?

[hiaasenrocks]

9. That's a great point.

I know someone who is a history/geography teacher for one of the public schools in my town. Her degree is in education, and she said she took the minimum number of history classes she could because "they were boring."

I asked her how she teaches the class. She said the principal told her, "Just have them write reports and grade them as best you can."

All of her kids have A's and B's in the class because she just wants them to pass AND "it makes me look good."

[Yupster]

45. I taught history for nine years

and this was always a big problem in our department.

Of our six or seven history teachers there were never more than myself and two others that I would say had a good working knowledge of their subject matter.

One problem is that I come from a big football area. These coaches know they weren't hired to teach history so they put their time and energy into what they were hired for.

History was also a dumping ground for teachers who had been unsuccessful teaching other subjects.

One very nice woman was an english teacher, but just didn't have the gift of teaching. Her students did poorly on all tests until the decision was made.

She would be transferred to history where there wasn't a test for the students to take.

Of course now there were two problems. She didn't have the gift and now didn't have a clue about the subject matter either. She taught history for 15 years until she retired recently.

I also have a very close relative who was always a very poor student throughout her entire schooling. It took dropping out and about 15 years of part-time schooling, but she admirably eventually got her degree.

When she got a job as a special ed teacher I thought that was good as she has a good heart and could no doubt do much good.

But last I saw her she told me she was now teaching classroom history. I laughed and asked her how she could teach history since she didn't know any? I blundered because she seemed hurt and shyly said "I'm learning."

The story was that she transferred to a school closer to her home and the only opening they had was history so voila.

Anyway, not trying to say bad teachers are the only or even the major problem in the public schools, but I've sure seen it first hand.

[Warpy]

22. Why do some kids resist help from their parents,

thinking that doing well in school makes them uncool?

Why do kids look around them, see both their parents working their asses off and falling a little more behind every year, and think maybe educating themselves and looking for a job that probably won't be there by the time they get out of college might be an exercise in futility?

What function does a lack of hope for a better future have in students' performance?

I strongly suspect this is what's at the bottom of it.

[NanceGreggs]

2. I'm sure there are MANY factors involved ...

... but my first thought is this: Many students in colleges and universities in the States today (American students) are only there because their wealthy parents can afford to 'warehouse' them at school for another four or so years.

How many GREAT engineers, scientists, doctors, lawyers and so on will never come to professional fruition, simply because a college education is becoming more and more financially out-of-reach.

I have this terrible feeling that the man or woman who was destined to find a cure for cancer, or a simple alternative energy source, will spend his or her life working at Wal-Mart or McDonald's because their parents couldn't afford their post-secondary education.

Just MHO ...

[Blue_In_AK]

18. As to your second paragraph

you are exactly right on. My youngest daughter, who was an almost straight-A highschool student, gifted/talented, a presidential scholar nominee, dropped out of college halfway through her freshman year because even with an $11,000 four-year scholarship to UAA she couldn't afford to live. That $11,000 only covered tuition -- nothing for books, fees or living expenses. She was having to work 36 hours a week at a hamburger joint (more flexible hours) to pay her bills and needed to carry 12 hours at school to maintain the scholarship. She had no time to study, and she's not the kind that can settle for doing a half-assed job. She just couldn't handle the stress anymore, and dropped out to get a better job where she could make some decent money to pay her rent and utilities and buy some food now and then. I suppose we could have gotten around it by having her live at home, but at 20 years old, she wasn't too keen on that idea. She's always been very independent. I would have liked to help her out more, but we just can't afford it. I'm taking some consolation in the fact that she is extremely intelligent and hopefully she'll be able to get into a field that she likes through work experience. Maybe later she'll be able to get back for her education.

My oldest daughter had this same problem, and is now finally getting back to school at 33. My middle girl made it all the way through law school, but she has so much student loan debt that she will probably be paying it off into her middle age. I don't recall exactly how much it is, but I'm thinking it's six figures. It's tragic that things have gotten so expensive for the kids. When I went to school 1964-68 I could pay my tuition by saving money from my summer jobs, and rent was cheap. Things have sure changed.

[NNguyenMD]

28. hmm...excuse me but it was American college dropout who designed the PC

It was the collaboration of American computer science engineers who signed the concept of Graphic User interface at Xerox in the 1970's.

It was an American Biologist who worked with a British mathematician who modeled the structure of DNA.

It was an American physician and microbiologist who first characterized the HIV virus.

It was an American molecular biologist and LSD enthusiast from California who designed the technique of Polymerase-Chain-Reaction and basically revolutionize Biotechnology overnight.

It was the American Army computer engineers who first came up with the premise of the internet, and received funding from another American Senator by the name of Al Gore, and basically jump started the information technology revolution.

Americans are very prolifics and are constantly on the forefront of innovation, yeah we get help from foreign graduate students, but I refuse to beleive that our people are less capable of groundbreaking innovation than in other countries.

[Fountain79]

31. and...

How old are those people?

[NNguyenMD]

36. With the exception of James Watson's modeling of DNA in the 50's

All of the breakthroughs I mentioned were accomplished by people of the baby-boomer generation (Born between 1940-1965).

What will people born in the 1970's accomplish now? I'm not certain they're still relatively young, but its not a coincidence that the a good portion of the discoveries that have set the course of modern biology, computer science, and engineering are Americans with American educations.

[Fountain79]

37. So that still doesn't answer for the fact...

that a good portion of the engineering fields are being taken over by foreign students.

[NNguyenMD]

39. So, maybe in the next ten years we'll see their impact on the world of

innovation and technology, but I'm pretty confident that even in the next 50 years the major breakthroughs in science will be accomplished by Americans. Its just the nature of our society and education that drives out best and brightest to think outside the box and innovate. But maybe you'll be right, and it'll be accomplished by people of other nationalities. I don't know if there are more foreigners in engineering now than before, I would imagine less because of the crack down in the number of Visas being allowed for foreign students coming here for graduate work.

[Sinewave58]

42. Doesn't hold true for all

I'm not sure what the college financial aid situation is these days, but for my siblings (4) and me, we were fortunate to attend either Ivy League or top-Tech schools. My folks weren't rich by a long shot and they didn't warehouse us (except for me - I was the youngest and by then they definitely wanted me out of the house!!!). During our undergrad years, a lot of, if not all, of the top schools pooled the financial means of accepted applicants to determine, for all intents and purposes, what to charge. Ivy-leaguers, unlike the techies didn't get "scholarships" so to speak, but in effect it all shook out the same given the "pooling" of means. I forget exactly when Late '80s maybe???), but some one or some entity sued these pooling institutions under anti-trust rules and reg's and the suit stuck, thus ending what was indeed collaboration, but the good kind of collaboration.

[Fountain79]

5. Redirect this tread...

I am really not trying to start a flame war here. I do honestly think though that we need to look at what is going on and figure out what can be done to change.

[papau]

Some great MIT research - plus other research - is available - I will

try to find some web pages and edit this post so you have a few suggestions to discuss in this thread!

:-)

OK - I failed to find the study I was certain was out there - It must have not been done by MIT. But on the way to trying to find it I found this nice course outline for one of the required courses at MIT for teaching grads. :-)

http://www.nap.edu/html/howpeople1/

[liberal43110]

6. Testing and Memorization

Many countries, especially in Asia, have educational systems that focus mostly on testing and rote memorization. The people from these countries admit this, so I hope no one thinks this comment is offensive. Anyway, of course with an educational system that focuses on testing and memorization, students end up scoring higher on tests, especially in math and science.

For all of its flaws (and there are many), the U.S. educational system allows some creativity and individualism to come into play.

[Mz Pip]

8. We must be doing something right

if all these students want to come and study in the US.

Yeah, there are plenty of universities who have lots of foreign students. I would supect if the education was so terrific in their countries they would be applying there and not to US universities.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[hiaasenrocks]

12. They are coming here because

(a) in general, they can outclass the American students and (b) probably more importantly, they want to be in the US to work.

[jab105]

17. In the engineering field...they do know more than the Americans...

but, our lab went to crap when we had a foreign guy running it, because he didn't do anything to drill into us the correct safety procedures (we had mercury spills people doing things that they shouldnt outside of the hood, and about 3 "explosions" inside the hood) and help us...whereas when we had an American in there he helped us (the younger students) a lot more so we were more productive, and we were completely up on safety procedures as well, we were a very efficient lab (this was in grad school)...

I saw this repeatedly...

2...many of them do want to work in the US...however, at least a lot of the people who come from Korea, they get better jobs when they get home if they have a degree from the US...so go figure...

[applegrove]

10. They underperform Canada too. Depends entirely on resources

devoted and crime rates. USA has been holding back taxes and transfer of wealth between regions and from cities to town..forever.

Public schools can be just as competitive as private ones. In fact, where I grew up, the best schools were in the public system, the few private schools were not the best.

Depends on how they are managed. Depends on who sends their kids to these schools - so they are invested in property taxes even at the times in their lives when they don't have kids. Strong leadership on education boards.

All that matters.

Wealthy in USA & some middle class, just took all their money and walked away from the table. Moved to suburbs.

[Vinnie From Indy]

13. Stossel is a right wing blowhard

n/t

[Fountain79]

14. Great....

That helped the discussion. :sarcasm:

[WinkyDink]

24. It is also true, about JS. He never met a private entity he didn't like.

As for "creativity": Somehow, learning by rote allows us to learn the alphabet, multiplication tables, a foreign language, a favorite song, passages of prose or poetry, phone numbers, names of states and presidents, etc. Then kids get to the upper grades, and it's all of a sudden, "Let's pretend we're landing at Plymouth Rock! Get into groups and draw your reactions!"
But ask them WHEN the Puritans landed, or WHY they called themselves "Puritans", and you can go straight to the Naughty Chair!

As for foreign schools: Are there school (as opposed to community) sports teams that take students out of classes? Are there "study halls"? Are there days when high school students come dressed in pajamas or as the opposite gender, for "homecoming week"? Are there "Guidance counselors" for their angsts and pains (hey, I was one; I'm allowed to ask this one.)?

[fishwax]

46. He said on the Colbert Report that we don't need the FAA, that airplanes

would figure out where the other airplanes were and not crash into them ... I mean, really, why do we need to regulate something like flight patterns? :eyes:

[renate]

52. well, he is

After seeing a 20/20 segment of his two weeks ago, and feeling in need of that everything's-OK cheer he distributes, I checked out a book he cited, "It's Getting Better All the Time," from the library. Stossel's premise was that we should all stop bellyaching because things have never been better.

First, the widow of the co-author wrote an introduction saying "I think it's important to keep in mind that genocide etc still exists" (that's as short a summary I can write; it's really a VERY good introduction and reading between the lines isn't even necessary, even while she makes it clear she respected her husband's work).

Second, that book was written in 2000, the date since which EVERYTHING EVERYTHING EVERYTHING about the United States has changed.
For John "Right-Wing-Shill" Stossell to have failed to mention that rather relevant fact (since the book deals in part with freedom of the press and other qualities of life) in 2005 is a journalistic lapse of integrity of mammoth proportions. Oh, wait, that's silly of me. As a right wing shill he doesn't need to bother with stuff like accuracy or integrity. Never mind that REAL scientists, social or otherwise, don't cite data without providing the date.

He is a giant, well-coiffed prick.

[oldlady]

19. I just had this conversation

with a grad student (mathematics) from Cameroon. He came to the US because he did not want to work for Exxon any longer & said that corrupt governments in Africa encourage the flight of their best & brightest. The conclusion we came to (by way of a thinking process too long to cover here) is that US students are not motivated/disciplined -- instead, from toddler days, they are programmed to be consumers, not producers. Have you been to a toy store lately? It's almost impossible to buy toys without corporate logos. Kids are deluged daily with messages that being cute, popular & in possession of the right gear is what it takes to succeed in life. The schools don't have the same marketing appeal & don't promise a "good life" the way corporations do/can. We have a crisis in self going on in this country. Even in politics, people are more "brand loyal" than principle loyal, imho.
peace

[NNguyenMD]

21. I'm not in the education field, but I'd like to take a crack at this...

It's only been 6 years since I graduated from high school, but I can tell you that even then, unless you were in honor's student, education was not viewed as a priority and this is at a high school in a relatively upscale section of Orange County CA.

I started high school in regular courses and switched into honors courses my sophomore year, and I can already tell you that the single biggest difference that seperated the students from both populations was that in the honors courses the parents KICKED THEIR KID'S ASS IF THEY CAME HOME WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN AN A!!!! It didn't matter if the students in the honor's classes were wealthy or working class, every kid I knew in honors shared the same terrifying fear of their parents making their lives hell if they didn't achieve the best they could. I think because the expectations in honors courses are higher for students, naturally most of them will work harder and value themselves more when they succeed.

I think it is impossible to expect a child to do well in school if there is no one to take an interset in how they perform in school regularly, praise them when they succeed, and punish them when they become complacent. Its so important for kids feel that they are capable of suceeding in life, and that as long as they work their very hardest they'll get somewhere. That feeling was reinforced everyday I was an honors student, and I don't think I would have gone to college or medical school if somebody didn't help me believe in myself, something I credit to both my parents and teachers.

Do I think one teacher in a class of 45 students can accomplish this? Obviously not, its far too much to ask, but teachers can be an invaluable resource when they recognize students from parents who desperately want their children to succeed.

Maybe this is all sugary cotton-candy fluff that only makes sense in Disneyworld, but I honestly think that without adults to push children to their limits academically, there really isn't anything else to expect than mediocrity.

[AngryAmish]

44. This is the best post I have every heard here

I grew up in the suburbs and my folks busted their ass to put me and my sisters through catholic school. If I came home without mostly As I thought I would catch a world class beating from my father and my mom would be disappointed (I feared mom a lot more). (BTW, it was later in life that I realized that my Dad didn't have it in his heart to really hit me, but the fear was there).

My folks came from the old country. They did not have the opportunity to get past 10th grade. They for damn sure made sure their kids got to college (5 advanced degrees between us).

My folks were constantly bothering me about school. I am a very private person and I figured out after sophomore year in high school that if I got straight As they would leave me alone so they would let me work all I want and let me slide with my drinking. So I did.

Bottom line - kids can do almost everything that is expected of them. Just expect a lot as a parent. my parents pushed and pushed. I have regretfully buried both of them but they have allowed me to make a very comfortable income and not work too hard.

They were the best folks anyone could have.

[NNguyenMD]

53. no, I think your post was better and god bless your parents for raising

you the right way. That was a wonderful story for you to share.

[wavesofeuphoria]

23. If you are going to compare

performance of students here with students in other countries .. then perhaps comparing conditions of schools (facilities, teacher/student ratios, funding, etc), socio economic levels of student (in each country) as well as determining what percentage of the school age populations of each country are represented in these comparisons .. then your comparisons will be more informative .. and you will know you are comparing apples to apples .. rather than ... whatever. Basic statistical principles here.

[Ronnie]

41. I read somewhere, some time ago

(and perhaps it's still true), that we test almost everybody. That's not true in many of the countries they compare us with. Also, many of those countries are very homogeneous. It is much easier to teach a class if they have more things in common than they don't.

[Mikimouse]

25. Part of the problem is that students of this generation...

are expected and, in fact, encouraged to participate fully in the economy. That is, they are expected to participate in the display of success, without having any idea about the work involveed in real success. as long as they have their display 'toys', anything else becomes secondary. Look at the parking lots at any college or university in the US and you will see the latest and greatest tpes of transportation, and all of these gizmos belong to undergraduate students. In my days as an undergrad, I had a used VW and didn't care to keep an apartment or condo of my own, but lived with my mother to save money for later. I also worked full time while attending, but it was only done to help pay the bills, not for a new car or other frivolous activities. Our national priorities are totaly screwed up and nothing will change until we start re-defining the priorities for our children.

[lostnfound]

26. Is he pushing the idea that it's because they aren't private?? Japanese

schools are very good, and they are public.

I think Stossel started out with a conclusion in mind

[fishwax]

47. I think he always starts out with a conclusion in mind

he is, as someone else said, a right wing blowhard. He's always seems to be drafting reports to fit his own conclusions ...

[still_one]

29. because of a self-fullfilled prophcey

There was a time when we produced the engineers and scientists, but since the corporatate takeover of America, and their thrist for cheap labor, by constantly saying they couldn't find enough qualified people here, they started to bring in H1B visas, and offshoring, until it became evident that those in the field could NOT compete with the cheap labor the corporations demanded

As far as some countries spend less per student, and outperform our students, that is not fair comparison. Our government is trying to destroy the middle class, but our country and our government were founded on principles that EVERYONE should be educated, and NOT just the rich or selected few. Other countries, especially Asia, DO NOT TRY TO EDUCATE EVERYONE, only their "cream of the crop". There populations are larger, but mostly their wealthy class are the ones who are educated, NOT THE POOR

Stossel and his elitest believe vouchers are the future, but that only will help us accelerate the dimise of the middle class, and the new plantation mentality that they want to form. In their incidious ways, they want to bring religion into the science class, ban stem cell research, and only allow only THEIR education

No child left behind is the code name for only educating the affluent

[Ksec]

30. I dont like Stossel. Hes a Libertarian (ashamed republican)

And I dont trust his study. He hates unions and he hates anything that has to do with Dems. In other words hes another whackjob with a chip on his shoulder. Hes always trashing America.

[dsc]

38. Several things

First, we often are comparing all of our students to the best students of foreign countries on these tests. That is why we actually compare quite well in elementary grades but start slipping as the students get older. It is in the late high school years that many other countries start seperating out students.

Second, per pupil spending can be very misleading. Due to our horrendous inequity in income distribution a decent amount of our education spending goes to things that are really attempts and poverty alleviation. We feed kids breakfast and lunch in our schools now. We provide access to birth control in some schools now. We provide paper, pencils, crayons, and other supplies. Our schools have police and security guards in them. Many have metal dectectors. Those are necessary due to our society's unique unwillingness to crack down on weapons in any effective manner. We provide aides for a host of medical problems that in most societies are covered by publicly financed health care. (autism, wheelchair bound students, etc) That ads up. Also, the median salary overall is higher here. Thus my salary, while higher in absolute terms, than say a French teacher's, is actually relatively lower than that teacher's salary. On edit we also spend a great deal of education money providing health insurance to teachers and their families. In most districts employee compensation is around 75% of total spending and around 15% of that would be on health insurance.

Third, our bright students can make way more money in fields like business, law, and medicine than they can in engineering and computers. That isn't the case in foreign countries and thus their bright students tend to not go into law and business as often as ours do.

Our schools do a great deal right but have some serious problems. I think that our culture undervalues education. It is hard to imagine that any politician in Canada or Britian would be taken seriously if he doubted evolution or was unsure of whether being gay was a choice. Yet here, our President holds those views. I seriously doubt France would elect a Prime Minister who admitted he doesn't read. Kids get that message loud and clear. Why should they read if the President doesn't?

[AndyTiedye]

40. Because We Have the Best Techological Institutions in the World

Why is it that, at least in appearance anyway, that most engineering and technical fields at the university level are dominated by foreign students at our universities?

[SoCalDem]

43. There are many reasons for it.. probably the biggest one

is the extreme stress that MOST families are feeling these days.. Kids are like sponges...they soak it all up.. When Mom & Dad are working their asses off 6-7 days a week, and still struggling to make ends meet, kids feel it..

When MILLIONS of families cannot afford medical care/insurance , kids feel it..

Kids as young as 7 or 8 come home to an empty house and when Mom and or Dad arrive later, there's barely enough time to get dinner, baths, etc ..let alone homework./.. We all know that the kids "should" do the homework as soon as they get hom to that empty house, but then we also know that most kids won;t do it.


Teachers spend a good portion of their class time trying to parent and/or discipline kids who might be sleepy, hungry, worried, or just plain tuned-out..

The little class time that is spent on teaching, is often spent teaching to the test..

Little wonder that our kids are not measuring up.:(

[rucky]

48. YEP!

except for the "teaching to the test" part, but that's a whole other can-o-worms.

[Raydawg1234]

50. Americans don't value education, Our kids party at school,

(I should know I was once one of them not long ago). Our President goes out of his way to point out that he is a moron. (http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/2006/bushnclb.asx) We are to interested in Desperate Housewives and The Apprentice to care about education. We don't want to think, it's too hard.

[Fountain79]

56. One funny thing though...

Did anyone else grimace when the American student said, "I think I did real good on the test"?

[MidnightWind]

57. Lots of reasons,

low educational standards, not requiring harder curriculums. Failure to fund pre-K through 12 education.