Just made an amazing discovery: I know the Economic Hitman!

[Pachamama]

I just had an amazing realization....the author of "Confessions of An Economic Hitman", John Perkins, is the very same friend of mine and teacher who I met over 20 years ago and with whom I spent much time down in the Amazon among the Achuar, Schuar and Huarani tribes in Equador. I have never read the book (although lots of people on DU and elsewhere have been talking about it and its on my "must read" list) but with two young children, I've been so busy and never have enough time to read all the books I want. Sure, the name "John Perkins" is one I know, but all the writings that John has done in the past is related to shapeshifing and shaman teachings - I just figured it was a different John Perkins. My first "Ayuahuasca" experience was in the mid-90's with John in the middle of the Amazon. I learned "shapeshifting" from him.

My jaw dropped when I suddenely made the connection about 10 minutes ago...I haven't seen John in about 4 years (since having children) but we have a lot of friends in common here in the Bay Area. I'm going to be getting in touch with him soon because I feel that so much has happened since we last saw eachother and what is wildest of all was in particular some of the prophesies that came to him and I when we were all in the Amazon on a trip in 1997 where the shamans talked about the "Men in the North who wanted Pachamama's Blood (Oil)". They said to us that great wars were going to be started and there was going to be much death and suffering. They also said that Pachamama (Mother Earth in Quechua - and yes, my chosen name on DU) was going to be getting very angry and that there would be many natural disasters and destruction. Gee, does anyone think the events in the last 5 years sound like the warnings from them? :eyes:

I knew of John's past with the IMF/World Bank and some of his work before his shamanic learnings and the things he taught me. I had NO IDEA that he had this story to tell (Confessions of an Economic Hitman) and I am feeling chills in needing to contact him....wow....

[papau]

1. WOW is right! - now explain shapeshifting so I can avoid buying his book!

John's 5 other books:

Shapeshifting: Shamanic Techniques for Global and Personal Transformation

The World Is As You Dream It: Shamanic Teachings from the Amazon and Andes

Psychonavigation: Techniques for Travel Beyond Time

The Stress-Free Habit: Powerful Techniques for Health and Longevity from the Andes, Yucatan, and Far East

Spirit of the Shuar: Wisdom from the Last Unconquered People of the Amazon

[Pachamama]

5. Okay Papua, if I can't find the time to read his latest book, how am I to

explain in less than 100 paragraphs shapeshifting and what its all about. Besides, if I was to actually "explain" it, it would be better for us to both be sitting in the jungle under the southern cross with the Milky Way bright white above us and for us to then discover how to become the Jaguar. :hi:

John is an amazing man....he taught me much...many people have often wondered about my "transformation" from being a preppy East Coast Ivy League School Republican to becoming who I am now, who is very conscious of the world around me, understanding the complexities and interdynamics between everything, every animal, plant and the air we breathe (and actually caring about all of those things) and to helping transform and make the world around me a better place....John was one of the biggest influencers on me...

So, as you can imagine, to find out that this much talked about book and the concepts in it and how they are applied to some of the economic corporate dynamics going on in our world now is written by my "teacher", my "Sensai" if you will, is a pretty amazing discovery...

I can't wait to talk to him....we have much catching up to do....

[papau]

15. OK - I confused him with David Kay Johnson who wrote "perfectly legal"

And who proved that work experience like had had can not compete with the ability to write well - and who produced a book much more readable than what I had put together. I had got lost in the legal games of some legal entity being a partnership or a corporation in one country and not in another plus other IRS Code 482 games - really tough reading - while Johnston had moved the story forward from page to page - and missed very little.

In any case Perkins sounds like the kind of fellow one could listen to for hours.

Have a great time catching up. :-)

:toast:

:-)

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Shapeshifting

is when a spirit can turn into someone else and be whomever it wants you to see. For example if a spirit came to you and in this lifetime they were your grandfather you would see this spirit as how you remembered them. When my grandfather died he came and saw me and it was as how I've always remembered him. Not young or anything like that. But if this spirit knew someone else years in the past and they remembered them as a younger version (like in their young adult years) they would appear to them that way. I hope that's what you're thinking about.

[papau]

66. Thanks - that makes sense and corresponds to my own experience -n/t

n/t

[AZBlue]

94. Are you sure it's the same person? (nt)

[stillcool]

2. Small world....eh?...

I read the book, and appreciated the story he had to tell. Your post, adds a whole other dimension to the image I had conjured up of the person behind this author. Must be quite a guy...with a few more stories...

[Pachamama]

9. John's an amazing man and the experiences I had down in the Amazon with

him and others were amazing....I'm still in shock that I know him and you know how they say "small world" and six degrees of separation...I am constantly amazed about just how true this is...I'm finding it smaller and smaller every day...

[Eric J in MN]

3. Do you believe that he used to be an economic hitman?

nt

[Pachamama]

6. Without having read the book, but knowing him, the answer is Yes.

I used to be a Republican.... :hi:

[az chela]

4. Once again it just proves that the mayans and aztec were right on

I truky believe in the mayan prophecies and had read a lot of books about them.I will order this book also.Thanks.
The mayans and shamans have access to halucinagenic drugs that raise their conciousness so they can see into the future.
According to the mayan calendar the world as we know it will end in december on the 12th 2012

[SpiralHawk]

19. Yes - the 4th World ends, but the 5th World begins

Ether will be the principal element, not air, earth, fire, or water. Ether -- where all the waves of cell phones, radio, TV and other signals live and weave....

Read all about it...

http://www.chiron-communications.com/communique%207-10.html

[Pachamama]

38. Here is something he said that resonates w/ me...

"Many powerful souls have reincarnated in this era, with a lot of power. This is true on both sides, the light and the dark. High magic is at work on both sides."

[Pachamama]

90. FYI-Those words are Carlos Barrios' not John Perkins for all those skimmin

through here and passing judgement on Perkin's Books because he wrote Economic Hitman as well as books about Shamanic practices he witnessed. :eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Thanks for the link

And yes from what I've read this is supposed to be a year of ascention where the spiritual world is concerned and all that. Check this site out: http://www.matthewbooks.com Another great site that talks about various things. I've learned you can trust this spirit. He is high up and you can sense the trust is there and what he tells you is true. What I've read from him aligns with what I've been told as well. This year is the year of the number "8."

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Do you know if

they have any prophocies for this year? And yes drugs can hypen your senses. I know other spiritual people here on DU and off DU who use crystals and candles. Whatever works for you I guess. I think using drugs is dangerous personally but if you can control your spirit and protect yourself and that's your thing than why not?

[G_j]

7. that is very interesting

and way cool!! :-)
I'm impressed with the 'shamanistic' insights.
There are many similar predictions from 'first peoples'.


here something I posted about him.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x141329

[Kipling]

10. And they are all made up on the spot.

Shamans know no more - in fact, probably less - than any priest or rabbi.

[G_j]

14. thanks for the "expert' opinion

but my experience contradicts it.
So, you are welcome to your opinion, and it is just that.
You really don't know what you are talking about.

[Eric J in MN]

8. When you call him your "teacher," was he a professor

who took US college students to Equador?

[Pachamama]

11. No, he's not a professor...but he is a friend and has learned much from

the various Shamans and tribes he has spent time with (and even lived with) and so when John would take trips down to the Amazon of Equador and invite some friends along like myself, we would learn a lot on those trips, from eachother, the tribes and the jungle.

He still does trips, and I believe he opens them up to the public to join him on the journeys...including doing some Ayuhuasca with the Shamans.... :hi:

[Eric J in MN]

13. What was his occuption (source of income) around the time

that you were making trips with him?

[Pachamama]

23. He was an Author, Lecturer and I believe also a Consultant at that time

He was also actively involved in a project that I was involved with helping the Achuar Tribe in Equador become self-sufficient in organizing and running an eco-resort called Kapawi.

[gulfcoastliberal]

26. I looked up Ayuhuasca on Erowid... this account sounds a bit disturbing:

# Wait 15-20 minutes. Retch.
# Retch some more.
# Try to regain your composure and balance after dry-heaving.
# Lie back and listen to some didgeridoo music.
# Begin to think you're dying, being devoured to the clean-picked bone by a school of rainbow piranhas, submerged in the hell-realms suffering brutal tortures and repeated dismemberment at the teeth and claws of the blood-dripping minions of Lord Yama and various ferocious Mezoamerican deities like Tezcatlipoca simultaneously.
# Experience a complete and utter ontological meltdown at the face of imminent death. Recognize if the 'huasca kills you now you'll be caught in one of the hell-bardos for a minor eternity due to your accumulated bad karma. Keep repeating your name to remind yourself that you have a body. Shower repeatedly to wash away the overwhelming forces of evil fighting over your soul ã in between rounds of projectile diarrhea. Marvel at just how full of shit you are.
# Panic, but try to remind yourself that time is your ally, even though each moment seems like an eternity of suffering. Remember that"this too shall pass." Believe this with the greatest skepticism.
# Continue this way for several hours, wondering all along if you'll actually be able to come out of the hell-worlds intact.
# Wake up the following morning, swearing off psychedelics for at least a very long while, still fearful of inadvertently re-invoking this terrifying state of consciousness.
# Go to bed the following night and reexperience this realm of consciousness during the hypnagogic state and nearly die of fright that you'll wind up in an ontological cul-de-sac someplace, dribbling down your chin until your time is up.
# Eat LOTS of red meat, drink alcohol, lots of Tamasic foods. Try to get grounded. The quotidian banality of three dimensions can be a sane human's best friend.
# Finally, several weeks later, look back on the experience without feeling a lingering sense of terror.
# Begin to regain some perspective. Consider trying 'la purga' again under the supervision of a very experienced shaman able to help those less experienced to finally conquer these treacherous realms (as must ultimately be done). One must go into the breach again to be fully cured.
# Maintain a VERY HEALTHY respect for the Vine of the Soul, recognizing that it can kill, regardless of what they say about tryptamine neurotoxicity. The tryptamines won't kill you; the heart-stoppage from unmitigated terror can, though.

[Pachamama]

29. LOL! I'd love to know more about that persons "psyche/soul/spirit" that

they had that awful experience! Not really, but what I mean by that is that your experience matches what is going on within you. The part about the purging is true and the stuff tastes awful too. You must fast the day before so your system is clear and yes, you vomit, often a lot. But once that passes, it is amazing...My experiences were beautiful and transforming and powerful...I never "feared" death although I've been told it could happen...I did Ayuhuasca about a dozen times and each experience got better each time.

That person saw demons and hell and fear...I saw angels and heaven and love... :hug:

[gulfcoastliberal]

36. I feel ya.. had a friend in Cali who knew LSD producers, the best stuf

Had some amazing experiences - and yes, it all depends on your state of mind. Some people freaked out, while I was on cloud 9, pondering the meaning of the universe while travelling to the moon. Went on many "walkabouts" around the University arboretum. Sadly, my friend got busted (over a year after he stopped dealing) and got sent to a fed pen for a 10 year mandatory minimum. He was really a smart, funny guy.

I'd like to take one of those Amazonian shaman trips, myself. Sounds amazing! PM me if you would share the details of the program, if ya still know about it. I read Mr. Perkins' book. I'm glad he renounced socioeconomically raping South America and grounded his soul in a better place.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. Interesting

Do you think you saw something different because of the state your spirit was in? Such as they could've been really depressed and attracted negative spirits? In my experience with the spiritual realm if you're down you attract more negative spirits.

[HamdenRice]

12. Sorry, but this actually made me skeptical of the Hitman work ...

I haven't read the book, but heard several impressive interviews with him especially with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now.

Then I read a strange post on Rigorous Intuition Blog. That blog is by DU's own Minstrel Boy, but it has some really far out stuff about alien abductions and demonic sex rings. So he had a long post about how Perkins was the same Perkins of shape shifting, and the connection to international financial institutions, and I became a little skeptical:

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/

<quote>

Then there's John Perkins, the National Security Agency-recruit and author of the favourite liberal limited hang-out Confessions of an Economic Hitman, who is also the author of Shapeshifting: Shamanic Techniques for Global and Personal Transformation, and leads workshops on the subject. Here's Perkins, in an interview with "Spirit of Maat":

<snip>

Shapeshifting is not just Perkins' metaphor for adaptation and personal transformation. He believes - he claims to have witnessed - shapeshifting on a cellular level.

What am I trying to say? This is what I'm trying to say: we don't need to look to Alpha Draconis to find a culture of shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is as American as Cowboys and Indians, and even more so than Cowboys. Regardless of what we think about the subject, even if we say this cannot be so it can't be true, a living culture which holds such things both possible and essentially evil is indiginous to the United States, and in particular to the western lands which have seen so much bad medicine of late, from Los Almos to Jack Parsons and UFOs. And then there's the New Age shamanism of the NSA's Perkins.

<end quote>

An IMF agent and an amazon shape shifter in the same career? My skepticism is even though I usually have my own tin foil hat firmly in place.

[papau]

16. Perhaps Perkins did the book via interviews -and got it right?.

:-)

[Eric J in MN]

17. I haven't read it. Does it consist mostly of interviews,

and if so are the subjects' names given?

[papau]

18. NO - I screwed up - I confused David Johnston's "Perfectly Legal" with

the Perkins book.

So I own it - but have not read it.

I do recommend Perfectly legal.

It is not easy having a lousy memory - but body pains are minimal tonight and it is time to stop posting for the evening.

Sorry I misled you.

[Eric J in MN]

20. OK, no problem (nt)

nt

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

21. I have the same problem

It's really put me off buying his book. I have listened to a couple of interviews with him and had my curiosity piqued, but I can't take seriously a personal narrative by a guy who claims to have witnessed shapeshifting.

[Pachamama]

24. I've witnessed shapeshifting (granted on Ayuhuasca) does that make me lose

all credibility? :shrug:

I'm a former hi-level mgr at a Fortune 500 company, retired young and traveled the world on my "walk-about" which included my life changing experiences that gave me new understanding of so many things and inner peace. I am now a stay-at-home Mom and try to be as informed on issues and be politically active and try to "change the dream" as many of the Shamans taught both John and I. There is much wisdom and peace that John learned from the Shamans. The reality is that his work as an "economic hitman" was in his earlier years and he literally had a near death experience at one time (got very ill) and was saved by a tribe he was staying with...that planted the seed and his slow transformation took place over the years. He walked away from the other life to more spiritual things, similar to myself that brought me to where I am and the journey I'm on. There are many things that I could tell you I experienced in the Amazon and was taught and told and you would think I'm perhaps crazy, but I can tell you that many of the things I was told by Shamans have come true and I'm watching them unfold. But does any of that diminish who I am now or things I did in the past including multi-million dollar deals that made me and my company a lot of money? I think the things that John Perkins will have shared about his times as an "economic hitman" (and mind you, I haven't read the book so I don't know exactly what it says) shouldn't be doubted just because he has experienced other things and lessons that many might have a hard time accepting or understanding. :hi:

[Eric J in MN]

30. What kind of shapeshifting did you witness? nt

nt

[Pachamama]

32. A Jaguar ....

I saw Mengetouhe (sp?) a huarani shaman turn into a Jaguar....

[Eric J in MN]

33. How long was he a jaguar?

Did you see him turn back into a human?

[Pachamama]

35. Can't recall the time...time was almost like it stood still & yet fast fwd

at the same time....I remember running through the jungle after him and then lying down...Only later the next day when I was out of the Ayuhuasca dream did I see him again....as human...

[Eric J in MN]

40. Do you believe that he literally turned into a jaguar?

nt

[Pachamama]

41. Do you believe your dreams? What if you found out that your dreams are

"reality" and what you and most people think of "reality (ie "the waking world") is really the dream? :shrug:

You asked me a question (several actually) and I've answered all of them, honestly and as I recall them...Do I believe what I saw....yes, absolutely....do I know that he didn't turn into a Jaguar? No, I don't....and if it was all a "hallucination", then it was an incredible one...then again some people would say what we are experiencing now is a "hallucination"....Can you literally believe that our country may have been taken over by Neo-con Fascist Corporatists? Do you believe your lying eyes? :shrug: What is real anymore? I often ask myself that question....don't have all the answers, but I have seen many lies and I've seen many truths in my lifetime....

[Eric J in MN]

59. I don't believe my dreams happened.

Some of my dreams may happen someday. Some of them have other significance.

I don't believe a man can turn into a jaguar, and even if I saw it, I'd consider it a hallucination.

Re "Can you literally believe that our country may have been taken over by Neo-con Fascist Corporatists?"

Yes, in the sense that some people in the Bush Administration want the executive branch and corporations to have limitless power, not in the sense that they have achieved that yet.

[lostnfound]

52. You've just asked both the right question and the wrong question

I don't mean to criticize your question, I actually admire it. But I see a perfect paradox in it, and I appreciate paradox: you've asked a question that both gets to the heart of the issue and misses the heart of the issue.

It's a perfect question for logic, that seems to wholly disregard meaning.

Personally not into New Age stuff or 'shapeshifting', but as a reader of Jungian writers, the first insight for me was in removing a rather Western veil of discounting the weightiness of "the inner life". We are taught through science and logic to value material explanations over all other.

Ironically in college I recall a final paper in finding the physiological basis for dreams -- nothing was explained until it was explainable in terms of neurons and physiology -- and I mocked the whole idea of Jungian psychology.

But to understand something at the reductionist level is different than understanding or grasping the whole of it, like knowing what process forms an iceberg vs "feeling" what shape it takes below the surface where you can't see it.

****
As an aside, I enjoyed 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man', it was eery though how much it confirmed the worst of what the anti-WTO people have said about globalization.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. You should come by the astrology forum!

I'm sure the others would love to have you and discuss other spiritual matters. :hi: I hope you drop by!!

[Pachamama]

54. Would love to drop by!

:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. What he writes merely confirms what I have heard from other sources

about the workings of the IMF and the CIA. :shrug:

[Pachamama]

28. Hi HamdenRice! See my comments below in response to another w/ doubts....

I understand that it may be confusing that someone could have had a career in one area, then a shift to something else, including something that may make people sceptical. I know John and I know many of the things even learned in the Amazon are true and I've witnessed them myself. John is not some lunatic who chases "UFO's" (although if what I hear is in his book about being an economic hitman and actions of the IMF/World Bank/CIA/NSA) then I'm sure they wouuld want you and others believing it to be true in order to discredit him. My guess, knowing John, is that he knew he needed the truth to be told because of what is happening in the world. Economic motivation is not John's Modus Operandi and he actually has done quite well before this book...My guess, John is trying to change the dream...the dream that has become a nightmare...

[FreedomAngel82]

51. I also wanted to add

that because of what someone does with his/her spare time doesn't mean what they are saying about something else is true or not. Today it's so hard to know of course but that's why you have to in the end rely on your own gut. If you feel that his book might not be for you than it's no big deal I'm sure. We all know the truth and it is out there and so easy to find now days. :)

[Beam Me Up]

57. "the dream that has become a nightmare"

It is not merely a dream. It is a spell. And the only thing that can unbind us is the Truth.

[Jara sang]

60. So "chasing" UFOs is lunacy but the subject of "shape-shifting" isn't?

[HamdenRice]

67. Pachamama thanks for your explanation ....

My "doubts" were not so much that someone who describes phenomena like shape shifting has to be a lunatic. I have never been to the Amazon, but I have seen some things in Africa in the realm of the paranormal that at least makes me think that we cannot explain everything in rational terms nor do we fully understand the nature of reality or "realities."

My skepticism was really more nuts and bolts, like, how could the guy have been working for the IMF and studying shamans. It was the sort of skepticism that arises when someone writes a book about brain surgery one day and financial planning the next.

But you have explained that these were two separate phases in his life, just has you have had separate phases in your life.

On the other hand, as a few posters have pointed out, to the purely "rationalist" audience, this will cost him some credibility.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. Just because you're skeptical

doesn't mean it's true. I've had some very interesting and scary experiences with the spiritual realm that I would have never imagined would've happened to me before. If you told me three/four years ago it would've happened to me I would've thought you were crazy. Things do happen. Believe me. I am a personal witness. I used to help spirits cross (very rarely I do now) and so negative spirits used to pop in here every once in a while. Now days they leave me a lone or at least I don't feel them because I have a shield up because of something that happened to me about two years ago.

[Finder]

93. Helping spirits cross?

Reason is the best shield against spirits.

[Vanje]

53. Yeah.

I really wish I had'nt read this thread.

[Pachamama]

55. Really?

Why? :shrug:

[Vanje]

58. Because, a book that is a terrific assett to liberal argument....

....was apparently written by a man who believes he can turn himself into a goat.

[Pachamama]

61. Umm...I've never heard John say he can turn himself into a goat...

Has he said that in interviews? Shapeshifting is much more complex than just the theory that someone can "change" themselves into another object or animal or being. When I described above my witnessing of a shaman named Mengotuehe of the Huarani tribe in Equador into a Jaguar, it was when I participated in an Ayuhuasca ceremony. The ceremony is spritual, not done for "recreational purposes". I saw a transformation...whether it "really" happened is up for debate...I will say that one of the reasons I posted this thread at all is because when I realized that the John Perkins I know is the one who wrote the book of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman", I was excited! Not because I know someone who wrote a book, but rather because I know him to be a very spiritual and honest man. I know that he and I experienced and saw a lot of amazing things in the Amazon and from the teachers and healers we met. I know there are many that are very sceptical about such things, but I think that we all have much to learn and its actually quite simple when one thinks that the greatest lessons can come from people that are considered by some as "savages".

I haven't read this book of his yet, but I can tell you that he is an honest and good person with all the right intentions. He is a truth teller and if you can keep an open mind and an open heart, know that there is much truth there...

[Finder]

87. I feel the same...

I have read the book and would have had no problem citing it--until now. Of course, I will verify the whole shapeshifting thing since it may be symbolic from his perspective but this guy sounds like a nut at this point if what the OP says is true.

There must be something in the water or something.

[Pachamama]

89. Someone is nuts simply because they write some books about the very lesson

that Shamans have conveyed to them and that they want to educate? So if you read a book or saw someone who spoke about things in truth and told you something that you appreciated, but if you suddenely found out later on that person wrote a book recounting the experiences of others (lets say a christian spriritual experience) then you would discount that person entirely for what they have said before?

Wow....I thought people on the DU were more open minded and non-judgmental....

Oh, and regarding the water there....the only thing in the Amazon that the water does if you drink it unboiled or treated is make you have bad stomach cramps or worse. But I came out totally in tact, have two healthy babies as I live here in beautiful Marin County as a stay-home Mommy retired from Corporate America. I better make sure that if I ever choose to write books, that I either write about my days as a woman exec in Corporate America or choose between writing my experiences as in the Amazon with the Achuar, Schuar, and Huarharani indians, because it seems one can't experience both and be credible....

I better tell our friend Lynne Twist, one of the most beautiful women I know who started the Hunger Project and by the way, wrote a book that combines both stories....try reading this book from her and tell me what you think then. The book is called "The Soul of Money"....http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393050971/sr=1-1/qid=1137511727/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-6301790-6499859?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Namaste

[Finder]

92. That is not what I meant at all.

I think books and studies on Shamanism are interesting and credible from an anthropological/historical standpoint.(barring the new agey definition of such) The shapeshifting as fact rather than a symbolic ritual was what concerned me. As far as spiritual experiences, I am open-minded but I would not cite someone who claimed to have really spoken to Jesus either--At least not for a work dealing with economics or politics.

My comment regarding the water was meant as a joke since hallucinogens are usually used in these rituals.

[Pachamama]

96. My mistake...

Peace.....

[rucky]

65. I don't think it's as much of a "how-to" book

more like a book about the ancient practices and beliefs. It's pretty interesting stuff from an anthropological perspective - definately book-worthy.

[pstans]

22. The book is an easy read

Some of the chapters are just 5 pages long, which makes it an easy book to pick up and read when you have a few minutes of quiet time.

[Joanne98]

27. I read the book! It was a great help for proving what we all

ready knew.

[Eric J in MN]

31. After you read the book, please let me know if his ages at the time

of events in the book at least matchup with what you know about him. You can PM me.

[Pachamama]

34. I will...

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

37. Namasté

:hug:

[Pachamama]

39. Hello my friend...

You back "home"? :hug:

[Swamp Rat]

63. Check out mike_c's thread:

"consider the possibility that the Bush presidency is wildly SUCCESSFUL..."

"...rather than the abject failure we've all thought. Consider the possibility that it might in fact be one of the most successful presidencies of the last half century. It's all a matter of perspective, so before you hit the back button on your browser, hear me out.

Disclaimers-- first, I've just finished reading Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins, and it has profoundly influenced my perceptions of international events and U.S. foreign policy. Second, and perhaps most important, this is a half-baked idea I'm proposing, and the act of writing this is at least partly an effort to flesh out the main points.

Near the end of Confessions Perkins, who was an insider in the seamy marriage of the military-industrial complex and international development banking for many years, says "things are not as they seem." Here's a short list of the way things are:"

more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=146094&mesg_id=146094

[Pachamama]

75. Ooohhh...that just gave me chills....

Hey Swamp Rat! I just read this post above and the comment and references he makes to his influence of Perkins book is wild....but the comment of "things are not as they seem" is precisely what the Shamans told us....

I swear, sometimes I think that its all so crazy....all the puzzle pieces....and not is all as it seems...

[FreedomAngel82]

42. I agree about mother earth

I'm an empath person and can sense very highly how mother earth is very upset and has been neglected for far so long. :( So it does not surprise me she is very angry. There is a lot of pain there.

[Clara T]

46. Rec'd n/t

[Peggy Day]

47. I just can't keep up!

I did get to go to Hawaii instead of the Amazon when I was in college (RESEACH ASST), but I could have gone to the Amazon. Long story, but I loved Hawaii. Missed the Amazon

[Pachamama]

82. I hope you can make it there someday....it is a journey we should all do..

:hi:

[babylonsister]

56. Big wonders to enlighten all of us! Thanks, pachamama! nt

[Pachamama]

62. Hey, we are all in this together!

The lightworkers have much work to do and we need to do it together.... :grouphug:

[Hekate]

64. Absolutely fascinating, Pachamama

Quite the adventurous life you've led -- thanks for sharing this.

I'm an agnostic on shape-shifting and related phenomena, but I firmly believe there are realms of the mind that our Western science has barely touched on, and that it is quite possible certain hallucinogens can open telepathic/telempathic pathways, both human/human and human/animal. Such drugs have been at the heart of many mystery-religions and shamanic experiences for millennia.

As for radical inner transformations (i.e. from economic hitman to shaman), any DUer who's read Malcolm X's Autobiography knows this alchemy is possible given the right circumstances and motivation. John Perkins' inner being was changed; he changed his way of life; and he has made a very public confession of the damage he caused in his former life.

Glad to hear you and the Pachababies are okay, and hope the mud is cleared from your home soon.

Hekate

[Pachamama]

79. Yes, my excellent adventures....and they are not over....

:hi:

Yeah, I've had an interesting life...alot of my friends write books and tell me to write one too about my experiences...I figure I still have more adventures left ahead of me for more chapters....

Thanks for asking about the Pachababies and how we are doing...we are still cleaning up the muck and mud ...its been a long two weeks....we are back in the house now, but don't have a furnace so we are using space heaters. Did get a new hot water tank though - can't live without hot showers...even for a girl who has been in the deepest parts of the Amazon and "roughed it", I got to have my hot showers :)

[crowcalling]

68. Thanks

For great reading this morning. Very interesting. Something different for a change. I think some of us are privileged to be knocked in the head with experiences that are not in keeping with what we were brought up to believe, or at least some of us are given a curiosity that leads us to look at other possibilities. To me that is a great gift. Advancement has only happened through the courage of dreamers. It has not happened via the status quo of the naysayers.

[Pachamama]

74. Your welcome...thank you!

:hi:

Yeah, I guess it is something different for a change...even I'll admit that when I have posted on DU, its usually the regular banter about the issues at hand (Fitzmas, Warrantless Spying, War on Iraq etc.) all important issues ofcourse, but I don't generally get into some of the things that have led to my own transformation in life. I personally in my own life had to be "knocked in the head" metaphorically until I learned. But I learned and am still learning. And its the dreamers who are going to be making the changes....

[glitch]

69. Damn! Now there's another book I'll have to buy, and stack.

The stack is about 40 books high now.
My consolation is I won't be bored when I retire.

[Pachamama]

72. LOL! My book list is up to well in the 80's now and w/ 2 Pachababies, I

wonder if I'll ever get to all of them without the cliffnotes or books on tapes....

My father in law would agree with you though....he is far from bored in his retirement! :hi:

[davsand]

70. A lot of people distrust what they have not experienced personally.

Pachamama, I learned a long time ago that there are many people who do not trust anything they haven't experienced personally or witnessed first hand. While I do not hold this against them, I do feel sad for them that they have lost that sense of wonder and awe at the secrets that exist in our little world.

For many, science IS their religion. Arguing religion just never seems to work out well--in ANY setting. Thus, I don't even go there.

I may be called a "moonbat" or a "woo-woo," but the bottom line is, I do think there is way more at work in our realm than many people grasp. I DO hope you'll come see us down in the Astrology and Alternative Healing forum--your voice would be a most welcome addition.

I have no doubt that someone would be transformed by exposure to the things you talk about. (Some may be awakened just by learning more about it!) Frankly, open and willing exposure to any different lifestyle can do that--let alone one that is steeped in such history and richness as the one you describe.

Peace to you.



Laura

[Pachamama]

71. It is interesting you mention "science" and "religion"...

Funny how the extreme fundamentalists want to constantly discredit the sciences and scientific explanation....then you have folks who swear by the scientific method and the sciences and nothing that can be explained through these means is then not always taken as credible.

I am a believer in Science, but I have seen and experienced things that cannot be explained through the sciences. I can imagine why throughout the centuries and especially before sciences could explain things better, why people turned to organized religion in order to be comforted by the unexplainable.

I have learned to accept that there are things that I can understand and explain and other things that I can't fully explain and have just been learning to accept. I was transformed by my experiences and I think I'm a better person for it. I also feel that I have so much more to learn....I might not be making many trips to the Amazon these days (more like trips to the playground) but those too are part of my learning. My little Pachababies are old souls here to teach me a few things or three... :hi: That sense of awe and wonder that you said that many people seem to have lost is exactly that which is oozing from kids and its exciting to see their wonderment in learning...Someday I will take them to the Amazon...the Shamans are waiting for us....

I will come and join you all in the Astrology and Alternative Healing Forum sometime...I'm always wanting to learn and share with others....

[Swamp Rat]

73. see post #63

:)

[Pachamama]

76. Just saw it....

:wow:

[Swamp Rat]

78. How's it going?

You get your house fixed yet?

What do you think of Al Gore's speech today?

[Pachamama]

81. I'm doing well....still cleaning up....

The muck from the flood was amazing....and disgusting...but nothing compared to NOLA. It took us the last two weeks to clean up the basement that was a cesspool of the sludge and destroyed and filled up about 3 dumpsters of things we had to throw out. The flood water reached our floor boards but didn't get in the main house....but that was too close for comfort. I also keep thinking about the Shaman's warnings about how pissed off Pachamama is....I keep thinking and wondering when the next flood is coming and ofcourse, we all know ole California is due for an earthquake...

Otherwise though, I'm doing well....got my birthday to celebrate you know! :party:

[Swamp Rat]

83. No, I didn't know!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! :hug: :party: :toast:

[Pachamama]

84. Yeah, I share this day w/ Cassius Clay, Joe Frazier & Ben Franklin...

Fighters and Patriots....like me!

(Thanks for the nice B-day wish....:hug:

[Swamp Rat]

85. Here ya go:

:hug:

[Crowdance]

95. It's all about tools

Science has been the history of the human development of tools that allow us to measure and create increasing numbers of things. The things we cannot yet analyze are typically labeled "magic," and magic is relegated to the unreal by those unable to experience life independent of the concensus. There was a time when it was crazy thinking to believe that the earth revolved around the sun--and along came the tools to measure and prove that. There was also a time when it was crazy to hear voices coming through the air--until the telephone. There was a time when it was true that people could not fly--and then they could fly, and it was no longer true. I believe that as science progresses, it will develop the tools to measure and even cause events like shapeshifting, and then those who need mathematical proof to verify their vision will be able to accept the reality of the event.

Like you, I am willing to accept my own experience as valid--even without the numbers. Let's intend tools to measure and repair the damage to our dear Pachamama, so we can get on with the important business of saving ourselves.

Can I be one of your kids when you head back to the shamans?

[Pachamama]

97. Sure thing!

Hi Crowdance! Thank you for the wonderful explanation about "tools"...

Sounds like you and I share some experiences that many would not understand...and certainly ones that expand the mind and limits of our understanding of the world around us.

And yes, it sounds like you'd be a great "kid" to have along on my next journey.... :hi:

[musette_sf]

77. I was chatting with some ppl at the counter at The Depot

in Mill Valley this past weekend, and commented that I was glad to see John's book in paperback. Someone said that he was going to be making an appearance there soon.

[Pachamama]

80. I've sent a message to him and also gotten in touch w/ friends he usually

stays with...I hope to see him and catch up with him....like I said in the thread, it just never made the connection that the John Perkins I knew in the Amazon is one and the same Economic Hitman. But its not surprising...not at all and I think of the conversations we had in the past and I can't wait to catch up on new ones. Another friend of ours who has written a great book and was on some of the trips is Lynne Twist....She wrote a book called "The Soul of Money"...much of what she writes in the book is also some of things we all learned together on our trips to the Achuar. (Add that one DUers to your must read list)....:hi: Musette_sf!

[Sin]

86. Well now i know not to get that book

It might just turn into a jaguar and eat me in my sleep.
honestly drug induced dreams = reality :eyes:
if thats the case then my local bar room has about 30 shamans at any given time.

[Pachamama]

88. That's okay...sounds like you wouldn't get anything from it anyway

Just because an author has written about his experiences in the military industrial complex and separately books detailing the experiences and lessons from Shamans in the Amazon, doesn't negate either. I've experienced the corporate world and did deals with the likes of Bill Gates but have also been in to the Amazon and experienced Ayuhuasca dream. Does that mean I can't talk about either or that there aren't valuable lessons in these experiences, all of which are valid?

You can only get and see from any Ayuhuasca dream or even of reading a book what your willing to be open to. Also, as an FYI - the Shamans don't need to consume Ayuhuasca in order to have visions and they don't do it for a "high"...Just as the Native Americans didn't smoke Tobacco for those purposes either.

I personally can't wait now to read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"....being that its written by someone I know to be an incredible soul and honest, it will be a fascinating read.

Peace to you in your own journey....

[SammyWinstonJack]

91. !

:spray: