Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:14 AM
Original message |
Poll question: Where do you fall on school vouchers or school choice? |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 12:29 AM by Quixote1818
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TaleWgnDg
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:21 AM
Response to Original message |
1. Okay. It's got to be asked. What do YOU mean by "school choice?" |
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And, as for "school vouchers" . . . it varies, state to state. However, "school vouchers" has a history of inter-twining taxpayers money with private schools particularly religious schools. As such, school vouchers should be deemed unconstitutional.
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Ian David
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
15. It's a school, not a choice. n/t |
Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
23. I agree on keeping public funds out of religious schools |
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When I say choice I mean the ability for a parent to tell a principal "Hey, your school sucks and if you don't change this, this and this I will take Billy out of your lame school and send him to another public school with a better reputation who will listen to me and fill the learning needs of my child."
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TaleWgnDg
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
39. Okay. But, again, it varies, state-to-state, those labels, that is. |
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1.) School voucher means that a public school parent is authorized by the state of residence to receive X amount of taxpayers monies and place junior into any public or private (and in some states religious schools) that the parent chooses and the state allows. Again, some states allow so-called "school vouchers" while others do not. As well as many states have an amendment to their state constitution (called the "Blaine Amendment") which prohibits the state from spending public monies on religious schools.
2.) School choice is available in some states. For example, in Massachusetts, if a city or town opts into a this "school choice" state program, it may accept a public school student from another city or town that also participates in the state "school choice" program. The receiving city or town receives X $$$ for schooling the new student and the city or town where the student lives has that like amount lessened from its state public school funding. No transportation costs are provided, as well as the recipient public school may have further restrictions to incoming students.
3. Charter schools are another bag. They are a part of the public school system but are not accountable to the local restrictions as are other public schools. However, charter schools must meet certain state requirements in education programs etc. On the other hand, charter schools may restrict their incoming students as public schools cannot. This, too, varies state-to-state.
These are all imprecise definitions since there are many variables to all these classifications. However, it's next to impossible to reply to your query w/o some kind of definitions.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #39 |
43. I didn't realize that the Freepers were using the term "school choice" |
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as code for "vouchers". I agree now that my phrasing in the poll was too broad and confusing. When I say "school choice" I am talking about the ability for a parent to move their kid to a better public school district. For example my sister who lives in Dallas would LOVE to send her kids to the Highland Park district. It has a reputation of being as good as any private school.
I am personally against vouchers. I am looking for a way to level the playing field so families in poor districts can have more leverage and power to force their hand and have the principal listen.
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TaleWgnDg
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #43 |
48. Some states allow this . . . here in Massachusetts there is a |
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Some states allow this . . . here in Massachusetts there is a program called "school choice." Each city and town has a choice to join "school choice." Some do while others do not. If I lived in, say, town X that participated in "school choice" and I felt that my kid would do better in some other public school in another city or town, I could take my kid out of my hometown of X and place my kid into another city or town that also participated in "school choice." However, the receiving town, let's call it town Y, can refuse my kid for various reasons. For example, lousy grades, poor attendance, lousy behavior, lousy entrance exam, etc. Another hitch is that my residing town X will loose state public school funding. But the receiving town Y will receive not only my kid, if accepted, but the state public school funding that was "lost" by town X will be received by town Y. The state will not pay for my kid's transportation to or from town Y's public school nor will any town be obliged to pay for such transportation. Again, some states have similar programs but there are many variables. BTW, this is all public schools w/o any private school involvement.
And, no, there's no Freeper input into the Massachusetts state-funded "school choice" program. None whatsoever. Maybe in some states but not here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
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Bluebear
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message |
2. No tax dollars for religious schools. Period. nt |
Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
21. I agree but what about choosing a better public school? |
John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:24 AM
Response to Original message |
3. We already have school choice. All one has to do is choose to |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 12:29 AM by John Q. Citizen
live in the district.
However we do need equitable funding of all public schools.
Using tax dollars to fund somebody elses religion, I'm totally against.
Edited to add/..Using tax dollars to fund private secular schools schools isn't a very good idea either. Do the private secular schools want to comply with all the laws governing public schools?
Privitization pretty much stinks.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
25. How can a poor family in Dallas Texas move to Highland Park? |
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The problem I see with Public schools is they are not accountable to the parents. If a school is not teaching a child then the parents should be able to say "My child needs this this and this and better improve on this or I will take him out of this school and send him to a school that will listen to me and cover my child's needs."
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
33. Most public school districts allow parents to enroll their kids |
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in any school in the district. Parents just have to provide transportation.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
36. How do you feel about allowing them to go to another district? |
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It seems to me that the wealthy districts get all the money and the poor districts get squat especially if the schools get money based on property taxes like in Texas. Their has to be a better way to level the playing field.
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
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live in the district they attend. That's where the taxes are collected to pay for local schools.
Most states have funding formulas that supposedly level the playing field so poor districts are subsidized by state dollars which make up for the tax revenue they lack.
There is also Title I funding for schools in low income areas. But of course, under dubya, it has been cut drastically.
Another thing that hurts schools is tax increment financing, where businesses are given tax credits (often, they pay no property taxes for many years) when they relocate into 'blighted' areas. Here in KC, H&R Block was given TIF to relocate downtown. It isn't a blighted area and H&R Block certainly doesn't need to be excused from paying property taxes. As one of the largest corporations in this city, the loss of their tax dollars is rather significant. I have been speaking out against TIF for many years now. I think it should be illegal OR businesses receivng TIF incentives should be forced to do community service in the area schools. It is completely irresponsible to exempt a business from supporting education in its community.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
44. Is their a way to move the very best principals to the worst schools? |
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I think their should be a real effort to move the cream of the crop leaders into places that need to be fixed and pay them good money to go to an undesirable part of town.
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #44 |
50. That is probably very possible |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 03:05 AM by proud2Blib
It would be okay where I teach. I don't know about the salary difference though.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
45. Here in Montana the State Teacher's union sued the State |
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to provide equitable funding to districts that have a lower property tax base. Our constitution gareentees every student a quality public education. The court gave the State a timetable to solve the problem, or failing that, the court would have ordered it's own solution.
Fortunatly, our brand new Democratic legislature and Governor were up to the task.
Vouchers and so-called school choice are a Republican band-aid for the classist and racist policies they champion. The Republicans cut taxes on the Wealthy, then cut funding to public schools and want parents to compete for limited space in wealthier districts.
The solution is to fix broken schools so students can recieve a quality education in their own schools that are close to them and are run by people they elect to the school board.
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DoYouEverWonder
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Mon Jan-16-06 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
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the big problem we have in my area is that all the 'good' public schools are at or over capacity. So even if the county allowed people to go to any school, most of the time you can't get in because there are no open seats.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
35. I see your point on where one lives, but with equitable funding |
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for all public schools the differences between schools can be minimized. The quality of schools is most often determined by the principle. If a school has a good leader, the school is usually good.
I live in Montana and I love the public school my kids attend. The teachers and the administration are very responsive to parents and students needs.
I always vote in the school board elections because schools are run by the people on the board, they hire the administrators. I make an effort to find out whose running and how they think.
I also make time when I can to spend some time in my kids class rooms both to see what's happening for myself, and to get to know the teachers and administrators better.
We have some of the lowest teacher pay in the nation in Montana, but I'm always impressed with the dedication and hard work of our teachers.
I talk to other parents about their kids experieces and lobby heavily at the end of the school year to try to get my children into the classrooms that I believe will be the best fit for their needs.
I think children's education is dependent on parental involvement and needs to be a partnership between the school and the parents. Parents need to band together and get involved if there are problems that need fixing, because ultimatly, our childrens education is in large part our responsibility.
What have your experiences been? When you say, "My child needs this this and this and better improve on this...." what do you mean specifically? What do you see as your role in your childs improvement, as well as the teachers roll?
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
40. I was watching 20/20 the other night and they showed a kid who |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 01:58 AM by Quixote1818
could not read. The public schools kept reassuring the mom that the kid was improving but she was not seeing improvement. 20/20 enrolled the kid into SILVA learning center and they determined the kid was Dyslexic or had some form of learning disability and learned differently than most kids. They determined how he learned and started teaching him in a way he responded to and within days he had improved dramatically. Had 20/20 not stepped in then that Mom would still be complaining and the kid would still be stuck in a bad situation.
I just feel parents need more leverage and more power in forcing their hand. Kids like the one described above should be given additional funding to get the special attention they need even if that means moving them to a place like SILVA.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
46. Do you have kids in school? |
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Parents presumably elect the school board that hires the Superintendent who hires the principle who hires the teachers.
I don't know anything about Silva Learning Centers. How many children were in the students class at Silva?
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DoYouEverWonder
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Mon Jan-16-06 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
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My son is dyslexic and attended a Sylvan Learning Center this past summer. It was okay. Turned out I knew the director from my son's aikido school and he was very understanding of my son's situation and was able to structure a program to meet his needs.
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rucky
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Mon Jan-16-06 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
55. There is Federal Law that gives parents that right |
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Title XX, IIRC
If a school can't provide for a child's needs, that child has the right to go to another school that can. Of course, quite a few schools & districts ignore this law on a regular basis (or just don't have the funding to adhere to it), and they're usually not very willing to advertise it to you.
BTW: SMU alum '92 :puke:
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coldiggs
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:26 AM
Response to Original message |
4. We should not take money away from our public school to give it to private |
DoYouEverWonder
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Mon Jan-16-06 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
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Has the mother of a gifted dyslexic, there are no public schools in my county that have programs for children like him. Since I also own a small business, I end up paying more for property taxes in one year then most people make, I have no problem with taking some of that money back and making sure my son gets the best possible education that meets his needs.
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coldiggs
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Mon Jan-16-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #61 |
68. well that is a special circumstance in general though is what i meant |
bleedingheart
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Mon Jan-16-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #61 |
69. yeah...why not go for a "I got mine..you go get yours" system of |
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education...
Within one generation the majority of americans will be illiterate and more easily manipulated by the wealthy elite.
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Canuckistanian
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:27 AM
Response to Original message |
5. Preferrably away from the pointy end |
rocktivity
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:28 AM
Response to Original message |
6. If our public school systems suck, they need solutions, not abandonment. |
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And they certainly don't need money being drained away from them.
:headbang: rocknation
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
rocktivity
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
42. Sorry I guess I assumed the wrong thing. |
proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:29 AM
Response to Original message |
7. Vouchers destroy public education. Period. |
LeftyMom
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:29 AM
Response to Original message |
8. I believe in private education |
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and I believe the only way to keep it a distinct and viable alternative is to keep gov't funding out of it.
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #8 |
13. I am a product of private education |
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and I teach in a public school.
I agree with you 100%. Believe it or not, many in the private school community don't want govt funding.
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LeftyMom
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
16. Certainly that's the case in the homeschooling community |
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the majority of us want no funding, tax breaks, access to sports or other favors because that means we'd eventually get dragged into the testing and other crap.
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f-bush
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:32 AM
Response to Original message |
f-bush
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. That was supposed to read....done! |
jobycom
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:32 AM
Response to Original message |
11. I'm against both, but more tolerant of school choice if it means |
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a choice between public schools in a school system whose funding is equitably distributed amongst all schools, and as long as districts are required to accept all those who live in their districts. The problem is that the school system tends to write off the schools that are performing poorly, since the wealthier parents who would normally push the school to reform will instead send their kids to a better school. I don't like it, but it doesn't anger me as much as vouchers, which are thinly veiled system of racism and religion establishment wrapped in a lie about "choice."
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mike_c
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:33 AM
Response to Original message |
14. your poll seems overly restrictive... |
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...so I'll simply say that I support anyone's right to send their kids to any school they wish, so I suppose that means complete support for "school choice." I'm ambivalent about vouchers-- on the one hand I think public schools should not be the default for kids whose parents can't afford to send them to better private schools, and vouchers would help. On the other hand, money taken from public schools as private school vouchers simply exacerbates the disparities and difficulties that make public education sometimes a poor default choice. One thing I'm clear on, however, is that I do not support the use of school vouchers for sending kids to religious schools or schools with ANY church affiliations. Public funds should go to 100 percent secular schools ONLY.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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What are your thoughts on helping a child who lives in a district with poor schools to go to a district with good schools? It seems to me that if districts started losing money and students, then they would be forced to improve or close. I feel the ods are stacked against poor families and that is not right!
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
mike_c
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
37. I'm not convinced that schools respond to market forces... |
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...the way business type models would predict-- in fact, I'm pretty certain that they hardly ever respond that way. Diverting students-- and other resources-- from districts that perform poorly is likely to make them perform even worse, IMO. Remember that schools receive public funding on a per student basis, so when students leave, so does a great deal of money. Performance suffers further, and more parents want to remove their students, and on it goes. Again, I don't have any answers, but I'm convinced that treating schools like businesses and students like customers, while an attractive model, just doesn't work in practice.
As an educator, I CAN identify one reason for this, although I'm sure there are many. Education is not a product that can be paid for, produced, and delivered. Instead, it's an opportunity, and each individual has to decide how to take advantage of it, or even whether to accept it. There are just too many factors influencing that decision that are completely outside the control of the schools and educators.
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
19. Vouchers won't help poor families |
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They still won't be able to afford private schools. Even if they get a voucher that pays 100% of the tuition, there are extra fees that are not affordable for a low income family. Most private schools make students buy their own books and there are fees for most extra curricular activities. Then there is transportation. It isn't free like it is at a public school.
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mike_c
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
28. I know-- my daughter Montessori schooled and home schooled... |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 01:24 AM by mike_c
...for the most part. Still, even partial assistance in the form of vouchers would have sure made it easier to scrape together her tuition and fees, especially when I was in grad school. Vouchers certainly WOULD have helped my poor family! I'm ambivalent about vouchers mainly because I'm not happy with diverting money from public education-- that only makes matters worse. You're a public school teacher, and I'm a state university prof, so we're both sensitive to that issue-- but if parents WANT to choose private schools because they perceive them to be better than the public school alternatives, as I did when my daughter was in elementary school, it's equally true that income should not be a barrier to the best education a child can profit from. There is no real good answer-- it's also true that private schools are often "better" because they are selective, and don't need to meet the needs of students with fewer advantages. Parents don't help this situation when they move their kids out of public schools just because they can, but how many parents are willing to put egalitarianism before the best advantage they can give their children?
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
Nomen Tuum
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:41 AM
Response to Original message |
17. My public school nightmare |
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The worst years of my life were when I was trapped in a public high school with unionized teachers who didn't care one bit about education. They were too busy pushing winning athletic teams. If you weren't an athlete, they made fun of you.
I had an 8th grade Algebra teacher who repeatedly made fun of me every day. He repeatedly called me IDIOT, DUMMY, MORON, STUPID and even made fun of the way I looked and dressed. Other teachers got in on the act. Many days, I felt like committing suicide, I couldn't take any more.
Well, I went to college with NO HELP from any of them and got an MA. It took years of therapy to remove some of the scars, but some still remain. I cannot do any arithmetic without working a problem on three different calculators.
If I had a voucher, I would have been able to go to another school where the market forces would have made sure this would not occur.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
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I hear you because I had a similar experience. Not as bad as yours but if I had gone to SILVA Learning Center or a good private school I would have done much, much better.
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noiretextatique
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Mon Jan-16-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
51. it's SYLVAN, btw, not Silva n/t |
Bridget Burke
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Tue Jan-17-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
71. Most vouchers do not cover the full cost of private school tuition. |
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Especially for the better private schools. And those schools tend to have entrance exams.
How was the teachers' union to blame? When your parents complained about your treatment, what happened? What did your guidance counselors tell you?
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upi402
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Mon Jan-16-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message |
22. 'school choice' got me too! |
skids
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:03 AM
Response to Original message |
24. If parents won't stand up and fix the public schools... |
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(assuming they are broken in their neighborhood)
...then they have to live with the consequences. No vouchers.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
27. Don't you think if parents could threaten to move their kid to another |
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public school the parents would have more leverage? I am against vouchers but think poor families end up with the worst schools and can't do much to change things. If the Principal started seeing kids leave then he/she would be forced to make improvements and be more open to listening to the parent about the needs of the kid.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
57. If the state would quit giving tax breaks to the rich and shifting |
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taxes onto the poor, The State could afford to spend more money on under funded schools. Pushing Republican band-aid solutions to fix Republican caused problems is not the answer.
Parents in a district {b}get to vote in{/b} the people who oversee there school district. That is choice. We don't need that choice taken away.
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Yollam
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:21 AM
Response to Original message |
26. What do vouchers have to do with school choice? |
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There is already school choice for those who can afford it.
Vouchers are a discount coupon for the rich and a way to defund public schools. They don't come close to making private schools affordable to regular people. Nor do they do anything to improve the public schools.
Have you actually bought into that scam?
Next you'll be asking how we feel about the "fair" tax. :eyes:
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
29. I guess that is why Highland Park Dallas is filled with only rich kids? |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 01:32 AM by Quixote1818
In Texas property taxes determine your public school district. In most states the only way to change to a better public school is to move to a wealthy district.
Parents in poor districts need the power and leverage to tell a public school that if they do not meet their needs then they will move their kid to say the Highland Park district. Principals will either meet the child's learning needs or lose the kid to another public school.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
49. Here is the problem..... |
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"In Texas property taxes determine your public school district."
Texas needs to make a commitment to all the public school students and provide equitable funding for all school districts.
Instead, Texas has been run by Republicans for too long, they've cut taxes on the wealthy and shafted the poor. Now they expect poorer kids to commute and over crowd another school district, and to lose local control over their own schools. Instead of fixing the problem. they just want to shift the problem to someone else.
The Republicans created the problem and now they have a "great" band-aid solution. So as gas goes sky high poor families can drive miles to get their kid a decent education over in the rich folks schools.
Eventually the rich folks are going to pull their kids out of their now over crowded public schools and put them in private schools and then cut funding to their own public schools. What will the poor folk do then?
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noiretextatique
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Mon Jan-16-06 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
52. HIghland Park doesn't want poor kids |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 03:24 AM by noiretblu
that's why schools are funded through property taxes instead of more equitable method. the design is the key to the entire debate, and it's naive and foolish to think the parents in Highland Park actually will allow a bunch of poor kids to enter their district. that leads to "white flight" which leads to lower property tax values which leads to less funding for schools. this entire debate is an example of the hypocrisy and denial about race in this country. the public schools weren't in "crisis" when most of the students were white, even if they were poor.
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Yollam
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
65. This is an argument for vouchers? |
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There are all kinds of problems in districts all over the country. In my district in urban SF, there are excellent schools and very poorly performing schools, and they are surprisingly segregated. We were lucky to get one of the best ones.
But again, none of this has anything to do with whether or not vouchers are a good idea.
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Crunchy Frog
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:35 AM
Response to Original message |
30. I object to equating "school choice" with vouchers. |
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RWers may use "school choice" as a code word for vouchers, but they are not the same thing. Of course I'm in favor of school choice. Parents should be able to choose which public school they send their children to, people should be free to establish and send their children to private schools, and people should be free to homeschool if that is their choice. Hell, I went to a private, religious boarding school myself. I do not thing, however, that American taxpayers should be required to subsidise all of those possible choices. Most particularly, taxpayers should never be forced to subsidise other people's religious indoctrination. But just because it isn't being subsidised by taxpayers does not mean that it doesn't, or shouldn't, exist as a choice.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
32. I didn't equate them. I see school choice and vouchers as two different |
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Edited on Mon Jan-16-06 02:15 AM by Quixote1818
things. Look at the poll, both have their own separate column. When I say "school choice" I mean the choice to send your kid to a better district. I guess I should have made that more clear.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
47. I prefer the choice of making the home district better. Why should |
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my kids have to commute to get a quality education? That seems much less efficient than spending the money to bring poorer districts up to standerd.
Also, local people elect local school boards. It would take away a parents right to choose who is running their schools.
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noiretextatique
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Mon Jan-16-06 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #47 |
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why not just fund schools equally? funny how that solution seems to escape people. if that had been happening all along: there would be no problem. there are no magical schools...good schools are well-funded schools.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #53 |
56. Good schools are adaquately funded, have a good administrator |
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(principle) and have parental involvement.
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noiretextatique
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Mon Jan-16-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #56 |
64. and they have trained and certified teachers |
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enough supplies and books for students so teachers don't have to spend their own money, guidance counselors and security, and decent facilities. as long as schools are funded via property taxes, poorer communities will continue to lack all of the above in their schools, no matter how involved parents are, no matter how competent administrators are.
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yurbud
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Mon Jan-16-06 03:30 AM
Response to Original message |
54. Another option: choice within the public school system |
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In Portland, Oregon, when I went to high school, they had a system of specialized high schools that you had to apply to go to if you lived anywhere in the district. If you didn't get accepted, you had to go to your neighborhood school.
I didn't totally get it, but it sounds like parents there now can apply to send their kids to different grade schools and get accepted on a lottery basis, which creates competition for good schools. I'm not sure how that would work out for crappy ones, but at least the kids of parents who are paying attention would benefit.
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John Q. Citizen
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Mon Jan-16-06 04:59 AM
Response to Original message |
58. Vouchers and "Choice" are Repo excuses for Repo problems. |
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They don't work.
They are not solutions but just exacerbate the problems.
It's not rocket science. Of course neither was Iraq, and we see how well those same folks have solved those problems.
I say, get a clue.
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DoYouEverWonder
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Mon Jan-16-06 05:59 AM
Response to Original message |
62. Let me tell you what a voucher can do |
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My soon is a gifted dyslexic. Unfortunately, dyslexia is usually not diagnosed until the child is older and failing. My son was lucky, I happen to have a degree in early childhood ed and studied about dyslexia in college, so I recognized the symptoms early. This was after a disastrous year in kindergarten with a teacher who thought he wasn't learning his letters to 'spite' her. In first grade I pulled him out and sent him to private school at my own expense.
In third grade, he was still not getting very far with reading, despite lot's of attention and tutoring. The year before a new charter school opened in my area that is just for children with reading disabilities. I decided to enroll him there and give it a try. Their reading program was excellent, but the rest of the experience again was a disaster for my son. Most of the reading disabled children were not dyslexic (there is a difference) and intellectually my son was so bored he became disruptive. Within a few months my son 'hated' school again.
We somehow managed to get through a year at this school, get his IEP completed and was able to qualify for a McKay scholarship (ie voucher). With voucher in hand, we ran back as fast as we could to his old private school.
So what does he get for his voucher? A very small school, we have 100 kids in the whole school and it goes from K through HS. There are never more then 16 kids in a class, which is a much smaller ratio then in public school. He gets teachers who have known him since 1st grade and understand his needs and limitations. His teachers now know how to read 'dyslexic'. For his reading and language arts classes he has a personal aide who sits with him in class and helps him with his lessons. After school his aide tutors him at the school for another 45 minutes, three days a week. For all of this, I don't pay a dime. The public schools can not provide the same level of service for the same amount of money.
At this point, my son loves schools. Gets A & B's and despite the fact that he still needs assistance reading is doing better then we could have even dreamed.
Fortunately, I am lucky that even without a voucher, I would pay the money to go to this school. And in the process I would go broke if I had to, in order to pay for the tutoring and assistance that he needs but it sure is nice not to have to.
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Broke In Jersey
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Mon Jan-16-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message |
63. Great show on 20/20 last week on how school choice works in Europe. |
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It seems to work great over there & they are kicking our kids buts. They think its comical that children over here are forced to go to a specific school based on where they live. It hurts the poor but when was the last time politicians gave a crap about the poor? They don't donate much to their campaigns.
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Yollam
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Mon Jan-16-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
66. Let me guess, a John Stossel Report? |
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You should bear in mind that he is VERY selective in his facts, and puts a right-wing spin on everything.
Also, most countries in Europe pay everyone's way from Kinder through University.
And where I live, people apply for the school they want, and take what they get, which may or may not be near their home.
My kids go to an excellent school, but it's halfway across town, and our neighborhood is not served by the buses, so we have to chauffer them every day.
When I was a kid, My school was a 5 minute walk, and we still walked to school back then. I wish my kids could do that.
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Gormy Cuss
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Mon Jan-16-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message |
67. With school vouchers and school choice.. |
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I would have had a substantial inferior education. Why? Because the middle class parents, rather than demanding higher standards, from our public school system would have taken the money and run to parochial schools and private schools. The poor and working class parents didn't have the time to take on the schools at every turn nor did they have the social and political clout. I went to school with the children of lawyers and physicians as well as the children of longshoremen and waitresses.
Parents want the best for their children and I support those who make the choice to home school or send their children to private schools, but the more parents who make those choices, the less chance there is for quality public education available to all.
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bluestateguy
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Mon Jan-16-06 04:24 PM
Response to Original message |
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I support public school choice. As there is room in a school, I feel that a student should be free to go to the public school of his or her choice. In the inner cities, where you have more bad schools, this is a feasible solution because public transportation would make it possible for students to commute if they choose to.
I oppose the use of vouchers for private schools, but I have to say that they are constitutional, so long as voucher money is not restricted to religious schools only. But vouchers are terrible policy. The best and brightest kids (and best athletes) will get to leave the public schools for exclusive private schools, but students who are not rich, or smart or good football players will mostly be stuck. Private schools don't HAVE to admit anybody. They can pick and choose who they want. Public schools must take everybody who lives in their zone. Vouchers could result in public schools becoming a dumping ground for the worst students, and thus, a two tiered educational system.
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Bridget Burke
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Tue Jan-17-06 04:03 PM
Response to Original message |
72. Houston has a Magnet School program. |
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(That's the Houston Independant School District.)
From elementary through high school, numerous schools offer specialized curricula. Many are for "gifted" kids, others emphasize certain subjects. There are career-oriented schools for upper grades. The program is quite popular. Entrance exams are often required, but there is still a "lottery" system because of the number of applicants.
Why couldn't more effort be expended on the non-Magnet schools? Money is the main reason. Others have pointed out Texas's problem with school funding.
We also have many fine private schools in Houston. They are quite successful & in no need of vouchers. Not that vouchers would pay full anyone's tuition!
Public money should go to support public schools.
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