Gore Cspan Speech 1/16/06 thread 4

[proud patriot]

thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=151988&mesg_id=151988

thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=152273&mesg_id=152273

thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x152443

[im10ashus]

1. Thanks Patriot!

He's on fire!

[Peanutcat]

2. God . . . . .

I hope people are listening and paying attention!

[toymachines]

26. This will bend ears, and get others to understand the situation

But mostly not the common man. The representatives and informed will see this and spread the word, thats all i can hope for. the MSM is lost.

[Sydnie]

3. thanks - late but not too late n/t

[rodeodance]

8. says we have for decades been witnessing an increase in Presidental

powers that the American people have generally accepted.

[rodeodance]

19. we are told by Adm. that his war powers will till war on terror is over--y

I recall that phase when jr. spoke.

[LizW]

4. We MUST DEMAND that the networks cover this tonight!

[medeak]

14. damn straight! n/t

[Dinger]

5. That Fuckin' Feinstein Better Be Listening

You know what I mean?

[HamdenRice]

6. Has any mainstream politician every before condemned COINTELPRO???

Amazing.

[American liberal]

7. they just panned the cameras on the crowd. He's speaking to a packed house

[im10ashus]

13. They are as riveted there...

...as we are here!

[American liberal]

18. dangerous power does not come in a day

he's admonsishing us now, and it's well deserved.

[Sydnie]

25. Yes he is and yes we do. n/t

[napi21]

9. I betcha Shrub has his dictionary out!

Lots of the words Gore is using certainly aren't in Shrub's vocabulary!!!!

[Sydnie]

20. He can't look them up - he doesn't know how to spell them

God, what a treat it is to listen to someone who speaks to and for the adults!

[doublethink]

10. President Gore.

:patriot:

[WinkyDink]

11. I'M SO UPSET I MISSED IT UNTIL NOW!!!

Sitting here, doing NOTHING.

[Pacifist Patriot]

15. This will undoubtedly repeat and/or be streamed. It's powerful stuff!

[sproutster]

12. Acrecion (SP) does not come in a day.

[sproutster]

16. We are told this will last for the rest of our lives.

[The Witch]

17. This is worse than other constitutional crises because we've been told

that this is going to last forever.

[CottonBear]

28. THAT is the scariest thing that he has said. n/t

[CottonBear]

21. Speaking about the sedition act and its repeal by next president

and now speaking about Lincoln and habueus corpus and WWI violations and COINTELPR violations during Vietnam...but after these crises the nation recoveredits equilibrium...but now DANGER is cycle may not repeat itself...recent decades accumulation of presidential power is dangerous..."

"...war footing (could) remain for the rest of our lives..."

[Fridays Child]

22. Another screen cap of the President

[teach1st]

Screen caps hurt our dial up particpants

in threads like this.

[The Witch]

29. that is beautiful

thank you for sharing those

[tridim]

40. What's up with that crawl?

"Number of U.S. troops wounded in Iraq fell by 26% in 2005"?

That can't be accurate.

[Fridays Child]

73. The number of dead didn't change. From the article...

The number of wounded dropped from 7,990 in 2004 to 5,939, according to the Defense Department. There hasn't been much change in the number of deaths, however. Pentagon figures show 844 U.S. troops were killed in the Iraq war during 2005, compared with 845 in 2004.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-01-15-wounded-troops_x.htm

[LizW]

23. He's saying that this power accretion is different from others because

this President is TELLING US that the "war" that he claims justifies his expansion of executive power will go on in perpetuity.

[Horse with no Name]

24. I would like to think that our Democratic leadership

is behind this speech.
By having Al Gore deliver it, it protects them.
He has credibility.
He won the election.
The majority of American's listen, respect and KNOW who this man is.

[stop the bleeding]

27. Wonder what the Rethug's talking points will be on this?? n/t

[Mabus]

Their only talking point: Gore is crazy, as documented by mediamatters

http://mediamatters.org/items/200406280001

New Gore speech, same right-wing diagnosis

In the wake of former Vice President Al Gore's May 26 speech (sponsored by MoveOn.org and delivered at New York University) about America's Iraq policy, right-wing pundits purported to diagnose Gore as mentally ill. Following Gore's June 24 American Constitution Society-sponsored speech at the Georgetown University Law Center -- in which Gore accused President George W. Bush of lying about the connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda -- Bush-Cheney '04 chief strategist Matthew Dowd reacted to Gore's speech on MSNBC's Hardball, referring to Gore, along with Michael Moore and George Soros, as a member of "John Kerry's coalition of the wild-eyed." Dowd's pronouncement turned out to be a preview of a new Bush-Cheney '04 video titled "John Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-eyed" and posted on www.georgewbush.com on June 25.

And a new crew of right-wing pundits weighed in on the mental condition of the former vice president.

[jazzjunkysue]

30. 2nd time he's conceeded that terrorists are real, but don't justify Bush's

power grab. Perfect.

[Sydnie]

41. Reminds me of "nothing to fear but fear itself"

He needs to say it so the morans that still think blivet** is king hear it too!

[CottonBear]

42. "Terror doesn't justify power grab lasting for many years & upsetting

balance of power."

"This administration has come to power in the thrall of a legal theory called unitary executive...that willl obliterate balance of power."

[Mabus]

31. FYI, the Steel case that Gore is referring to

U.S. Supreme Court
YOUNGSTOWN CO. v. SAWYER, 343 U.S. 579 (1952)
343 U.S. 579

YOUNGSTOWN SHEET & TUBE CO. ET AL. v. SAWYER.
CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT. * No. 744.
Argued May 12-13, 1952.
Decided June 2, 1952.

To avert a nation-wide strike of steel workers in April 1952, which he believed would jeopardize national defense, the President issued an Executive Order directing the Secretary of Commerce to seize and operate most of the steel mills. The Order was not based upon any specific statutory authority but was based generally upon all powers vested in the President by the Constitution and laws of the United States and as President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. The Secretary issued an order seizing the steel mills and directing their presidents to operate them as operating managers for the United States in accordance with his regulations and directions. The president promptly reported these events to Congress; but Congress took no action. It had provided other methods of dealing with such situations and had refused to authorize governmental seizures of property to settle labor disputes. The steel companies sued the Secretary in Federal District Court, praying for a declaratory judgment and injunctive relief. The District Court issued a preliminary injunction, which the Court of Appeals stayed. Held:

1. Although this case has proceeded no further than the preliminary injunction stage, it is ripe for determination of the constitutional validity of the Executive Order on the record presented. Pp. 584-585.

(a) Under prior decisions of this Court, there is doubt as to the right to recover in the Court of Claims on account of properties unlawfully taken by government officials for public use. P. 585.

(b) Seizure and governmental operation of these going businesses were bound to result in many present and future damages of such nature as to be difficult, if not incapable, of measurement. P. 585. <343 U.S. 579, 580>

2. The Executive Order was not authorized by the Constitution or laws of the United States; and it cannot stand. Pp. 585-589.

link to case: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=343&invol=579

[babylonsister]

35. Thanks, Mabus! nt

[Mabus]

46. Studied in Constitutional Law class

went right over it because the professor didn't think we'd ever have a constitutional crisis like this again. :banghead:

[Mabus]

Separation of powers doctrine analysis

YOUNGSTOWN SHEET & TUBE CO. V SAWYER (1952)

If the recall of General MacArthur reaffirmed the tradition of civilian control over the military, the Steel Seizure case reminded the nation that, even in a war, the president could not act beyond the bounds of his constitutional powers.

In April 1952, President Truman ordered seizure of the nation's steel mills in order to forestall a strike which, he claimed, would have seriously harmed the nation during the Korean conflict. Although there was a law on the books, the Taft-Hartley Act, which gave the president the power to impose an eighty-day "cooling off" period when a strike was threatened, Truman refused to use that law, since he had opposed its passage in the first place. He also chose not to ask Congress for special legislation. Instead, he chose to take over control of the companies under his emergency war powers as commander-in-chief.

The steel companies did not deny that the government could take over their property in emergencies. Rather, they claimed that the wrong branch of the government had proceeded against them; in essence, they sued the president on behalf of Congress on the basis that the presidential action had violated the constitutional doctrine of separation of powers. Six members of the Court agreed, and Justice Hugo Black's majority opinion made a strong case for requiring the president, even in wartime, to abide by established rules.

From a constitutional standpoint, Youngstown remains one of the "great" modern cases, in that it helped to redress the balance of power among the three branches of government, a balance that had been severely distorted by the enormous growth of the executive branch and its powers first during the Depression, then during the war and the subsequent postwar search for global security.

For further reading: Maeva Marcus, Truman and the Steel Seizure Case: The Limits of Presidential Power (1977); Alan F. Westin, The Anatomy of a Constitutional Law Case: Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer; The Steel Seizure Decision (1958).

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/59.htm

[Deb]

37. thanks! n/t

[American liberal]

32. now he's taking on preemptive strikes! YAY!

[Dudley_DUright]

33. Great Thomas Jefferson quote

Brought tears to my eyes.

...These principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty, and safety.

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres16.html

[Dudley_DUright]

47. Common theme for BushCo

"..the instinct to dominate and control."

[The Witch]

34. Unitary? no, UNILATERAL executive

:loveya: Al :loveya:

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. First time I've disagreed with him. Sorry Al. That's not quite it either.

It's not unilateral it's dictatorial. ;)

[Idioteque]

38. Unitary Executive...hey DiFi, listen up!! n/t

[CottonBear]

49. She's in the audience. Al mentioned her (the only person he mentioned)

during his introductory stateemtn. Maybe it was a BIG hint to DiFI. ;)

[Roland99]

63. Surprised there wasn't a smattering of boos.

[sproutster]

39. Contours of Constitution obliterated. Cannot be reviewed.

[rodeodance]

43. this point that these susposed powers can be used indefinately is very

important!!

[HamdenRice]

44. Instinct to intimidate or control ...

[durrrty libby]

It is such a pleasure

listening to Gore speak. An intelligent politician, who knows what he’s talking about, has become an endangered species. I feel like a drug addict getting a fix.

[jazzjunkysue]

45. Beautiful, simple, clear, cogent oratory. Doesn't sound like he's reading.

He really appears to be speaking off the cuff. He sounds like he really wants me to hear his point right from his heart, not a piece of paper. Beautiful. He's ready. He's our next JFK.

[The Witch]

52. Yes, he has come a LONG way.

I believe him totally.

[Mabus]

54. When you speak the truth and from knowledge

of course it is easy. Compare it to the shrub's tortured reading and stumbling over his canned speeches and talking points.

[jazzjunkysue]

64. Orwell and Tennett and MLK all in the same sentence.

[LizW]

48. An instinct to dominate and control

He says that is the common denominator between the expansion of executive powers and the new foreign policy based on force.

[helderheid]

50. I want him to run in '08.

[helderheid]

53. http://www.algore-08.com/

http://www.algore-08.com/

[rodeodance]

58. anyone know if other cables are carrying it?--clips? or even if mentioned?

[jazzjunkysue]

71. Nothing. I checked.

[carolinalady]

51. Bush = Hoover

[LizW]

55. FBI agents didn't want to "be in trouble" with Hoover

[carolinalady]

62. the false accusation became the unanimous view

[Sydnie]

56. Ruling by fear! Fear of the man and his power! n/t

[malaise]

66. Pay close attention

he is coming for Alito

[sproutster]

57. The FBI agents that told Hoover that MLK was NOT involved in communism

Isolated and feared loss of jobs and money.

[CottonBear]

59. FBI offficials who disagreed w/ FBI's idea that MLK & communists connected

were cut off from FBI and were hurt in their jobs and were in fear of Hoover and for their jobs...

[Viva_La_Revolution]

60. "a power over a man's support is a power over his will."

(Federalist No. 7)

[Sydnie]

68. We need a bumpersticker that says that!

:hi:

[typhoontim]

79. I wonder...

I LOVE Gore's references to our founding fathers... think BuchCo has any idea who Thomas Jefferson is? ...Thomas Paine?

"Uncle Dick, who's that Thomas Paine fella that man's talkin' 'bout?"

[CottonBear]

80. "The false accusation became the manifest view."

In the words of George Orwell, we are all capable of believing things that are untrue...and then twisting the fact to try and prove that we were right."

2,200 American Soldiers died: "False beliefs bumping into reality."

[The Witch]

61. Quoting Orwell!

holy shit

[LizW]

65. HOLY SHIT! Quoting George Orwell!

[helderheid]

67. WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!

[suffragette]

69. quoting Orwell

[rodeodance]

84. yahoo has bush talk in top stories.--but no mention of Gore that I can see

# Bush Marks MLK Day With Gospel Performance AP - 49 minutes ago

[Pacifist Patriot]

70. Wow, that was really amazing vocal control when talking about

loss of life. Truly impressive. I want his vocal coach to help me prepare for sermons. Damn!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

72. Whenever power is unchecked

Whenever power is unchecked and unaccountable it almost inevitably leads to mistakes and abuses. In the absence of rigorous accountability, incompetence flourishes. Dishonesty is encouraged and rewarded.

[sproutster]

74. Hell yea... :( Poor soldiers. He speaks for me.

[Sydnie]

75. Dishonesty is rewarded n/t

[carolinalady]

76. In the absence of rigorous accountability incompetence

flourishes

[WinkyDink]

77. I'm crying, he's so GREAT!!

THIS IS MY PRESIDENT!
Bush couldn't string TWO of these WORDS together!!!

[LizW]

78. OOOH! He almost mocked Cheney!

[Sydnie]

Not almost - he body slammed him! n/t

[CottonBear]

96. He is mocking Cheney: "The Admin. DID have the names of 2 hijackers

and the info to find most of the others...but because of incompetence we did not catch (the hijackers."

CHENEY SMACKDOWN.

[txindy]

104. The Dick could have a heart attack over this speech. I worry about that

:rofl:

[glitch]

81. Breathtaking wordsmith!!

"in absence of accountability incompetence flourishes."

[proud patriot]

Indeed

[helderheid]

82. dishonesty encouraged and rewarded - now on to Cheney and Wiretaps!

[chiffon]

83. "In the absense of accountability...Mistakes FLOURISH!"

[sproutster]

85. omfg - "apparently he did not know they had TWO OF THE NAMES"

[jasmeel]

Calls em incompetent!! Awesome!

[babylonsister]

86. OMG! Knew ID of some hijackers, but incompetence ruled! nt

[toymachines]

94. LIHOP proposed by Gore?

[babylonsister]

103. Makes me wonder what he REALLY thinks! nt

[cindyw]

87. Great the way he brings MLK into this over and over

[rodeodance]

108. yes. agreed!

[jazzjunkysue]

88. Incompetence. Unchecked power. So on point. Beautiful.

[HamdenRice]

89. OMG!! PRACTICALLY CALLING OUT BUSH ON LIHOP!

Don't need eavesdropping because admin knew the names and addresses of hijackers!

[Sydnie]

98. that makes a great argument for LIHOP!

Go Al Go!

[wishlist]

101. Richard Ben Veniste made the same point on Hardball

FBI knew of two of the hijackers and could have picked them up easily for questioning.

[mzmolly]

131. "One was listed in the phone book."

:toast:

[Peanutcat]

90. Gore zapped Cheney!

LOL!

[CottonBear]

Cheney goes down! Gore deals a body blow to Darth Cheney! n/t

[Dudley_DUright]

91. "Unaccountable Incompetence"

brilliant phrase

[susu369]

105. Dead center: "unaccountable incompetence"

[The Witch]

92. An immoral executive responds to its mistakes by demanding more power

FIRMLY pinning 9-11 blame on bushco

[txindy]

93. Okay, okay, I admit it

Al Gore has won me over. Always liked him, but never mad for him. That has now changed and in a BIG way!

:patriot:, President Gore!

[helderheid]

102. Feel the same way!!! He needs to run for RE-election in 2008!!

[Gregorian]

95. To think of what could have been, is so painful. What should have been.

[LizW]

97. He's tying it all together

unchecked power -- mistakes flourish -- incompetence -- lives lost

[Pacifist Patriot]

99. Sadly, his pointing out the obvious to Republicans will go unheeded.

[babylonsister]

106. Unheeded? They won't even listen. nt

[im10ashus]

100. Democrats AND Republicans should be concerned.

NICE!

[The Witch]

107. He's taking EVERY SINGLE TALKING POINT we ever proposed

and weaving them together into a single seamless completely coherent narrative.

Whatta speechwriter he's got and what a great job he's doing.

[CottonBear]

109. Maybe he reads DU! ;) n/t

[rodeodance]

115. Alito will NOT vote to cut presidential powers says Gore. Get that!

[senseandsensibility]

121. Speechwriter?

According to mopaul, he wrote it himself.:-)

[txindy]

135. I believe it. He knows it too well and says it too passionately.

Those are his words.

[toymachines]

126. I am jumping up and down.

Simply because everything we have talked about on this forum, excessive powers and things done by this admin, they are all being eloquetly expressed by a very respectable, Vicepresident who should be commander in chief. This is some vindication for us.

[cindyw]

110. Unaccountable Incompetence! So true.

[sproutster]

111. Ooh judicial appointmens - directly showing that they will not check him

[Sydnie]

116. Does not support Alito!!!!!! Make the calls Al - educate those

with the power to stop it NOW!

[suffragette]

112. "appointing judges that will be deferential to its power"

Listen up, Sen. Feinstein.

[cindyw]

118. Hopefully he is saying this on purpose knowing what she said.

[suffragette]

128. Wish I could see if he was looking at her

I'm sure he was saying it to her.

[rpgamerd00d]

113. NAILING ALITO !

[im10ashus]

119. He TOTALLY nailed him.

Love me some Al!

[HamdenRice]

114. Does not support Alito because of deference of expansion of power

[sproutster]

117. ok - I'm totally Gore 2008. He's going after Alito "assult"

[The Witch]

120. Alito! Roberts! The Nuclear Option! "Judicial Activism"! EVERY ISSUE

he is hitting every last one of 'em

[im10ashus]

122. Covering all the bases.

He really is.

[pberq]

130. Will Diane Feinstein listen to Mr. Gore????

[rpgamerd00d]

123. Nailing "Nuclear Option"

[mzmolly]

124. I hope people are listening about Alito's lack of interest in limiting

Presidential powers. Ms. Feinstein??!

[babylonsister]

125. Sharp decline of congressional power and autonomy. nt

[CottonBear]

139. Speaking of his experience in Congress & his father's experience

and how congress works today compared to his and his father's time...
congress works as if it entirely subservient to executive branch." APPLAUSE!

"...2 or 3 generations of congressmen that don;t knoaw what oversight authority is."

[CottonBear]

127. Alito & Roberts will not vote to check executive powers.

SMACKDOWN of SCOTUS nominee and SCOTUS chief justice.

"Admin has demonstrted contemp for judicial role."

[LizW]

129. Today's Congress is unrecognizable compared to the one my father served in

[Mabus]

136. don't know what oversight is

Isn't that the truth?!?

[toymachines]

138. 2or 3 generations of congress that doesnt know what oversigh is

Ha, this is the best speech since..... hell i am only 20, this is the best speech I have ever seen.

[sproutster]

132. It's times like these that GREAT MEN STEP UP

[carolinalady]

133. Congress subserviant to the executive branch

[carolinalady]

137. Oversight almost unknown

[babylonsister]

134. Legislative branch acts as if it's entirely subservient to exec. branch.

[Sydnie]

140. I hope Specter is listening! n/t

[proud patriot]

141. go to thread 5 here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x152924